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rjsounds

macrumors member
Jul 3, 2017
73
28
thanks for the reply. Yea making music again has been on my mind 24/7 for the last 6-12 months and I've been saving up and waiting for this day to see if they release new....and they didn't so I'll be buying something just not sure if going with i7 or i5.

I'm leaning towards i7 as a just in case and future proof kind of move. I'd hate to spend $2,900 and regret it when All I had to do was spend $3,500 and get exactly what I wanted.

I might just spend the extra $550-600

21.5" just seems like it wouldn't feel that special considering I'm using a 22" for my PC monitor, because of dimensions it might feel like a downgrade with those bezels.......which are twice the size as the ones on my 2013 HD monitor.

Also, 100 tracks is more than I'll need to use anyways. I'd be happy with 40-50 running at once without having to freeze.

Get the 27". You'll be glad you did.

And again, just to give you some perspective if you're still unsure of i5 or i7... My old 21.5" 2010 iMac was duo core i3, non-SSD. It was still able to handle fairly large productions right up until I bought the new one in 2017.

The i7 would really be a no-brainer for an orchestral composer using multiple instances of EastWest Symphonic Orchestra. For yourself? Either i5 or i7 will be fine. I wouldn't worry about heat or noise issues if you're just working in your DAW.
 

DQ11

macrumors regular
Apr 12, 2018
199
65
Get the 27". You'll be glad you did.

And again, just to give you some perspective if you're still unsure of i5 or i7... My old 21.5" 2010 iMac was duo core i3, non-SSD. It was still able to handle fairly large productions right up until I bought the new one in 2017.

The i7 would really be a no-brainer for an orchestral composer using multiple instances of EastWest Symphonic Orchestra. For yourself? Either i5 or i7 will be fine. I wouldn't worry about heat or noise issues if you're just working in your DAW.
good to know. Yea I just think the 21.5" would disappoint me even though it's larger than the 15" screen I've been used to.

I was kind of thinking the same with the heat. I might not even get to a point with my songs that even makes the heat/fan noise an issue.
 

galactic orange

macrumors member
Feb 20, 2018
73
48
Truthfully though I’d strongly consider getting the new model regardless since it is so much better for music. If the new model has upgradable RAM then great, get the i5-8600. If it doesn’t have upgradable RAM then consider the i5-8400/8500 entry level 27” model with Apple RAM, if the RAM options are suitable for you.
I'm in a similar situation as the OP, using a MBP 2009 Core2Duo and badly in need of an upgrade mostly for increased RAM for use with Logic (and lots of Kontakt instruments). Looking at getting a 2015 MBP but the thought of dropping that much cash only to be capped at 16GB and 2.5GHz quad-core keeps holding me back. For a bit more cash there's the iMac 27" with upgradable RAM. For the OPs purpose I think quad-core i5 will be excellent. I'd like to pick up one of these now, but...

...I am going to try to hold off until the fall with possible 6-core iMac. I've been very reluctant to go the iMac route but the 2019 modular Mac Pro is too far off in the distance. Honestly, the 21.5" iMac would be enough screen for me, but I can't be obliged to pay Apple RAM prices to get 32GB in there when the 27" is a much better deal with third-party RAM.
 
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mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,231
417
Brooklyn, NY
...I am going to try to hold off until the fall with possible 6-core iMac. I've been very reluctant to go the iMac route but the 2019 modular Mac Pro is too far off in the distance. Honestly, the 21.5" iMac would be enough screen for me, but I can't be obliged to pay Apple RAM prices to get 32GB in there when the 27" is a much better deal with third-party RAM.

At this point even a fall release for new iMacs is only a hope/guess. You should be prepared to wait for those two extra cores until the end of the year, or later. AND your wait may be rewarded with non-user-upgradable RAM.
 

galactic orange

macrumors member
Feb 20, 2018
73
48
At this point even a fall release for new iMacs is only a hope/guess. You should be prepared to wait for those two extra cores until the end of the year, or later. AND your wait may be rewarded with non-user-upgradable RAM.
If I had a pressing need for a solution right now like the OP then I wouldn't hesitate to get a 2017 iMac. No downsides there aside from some reported overheating which the OP will mitigate by choosing the cooler i5 processor. The current iMac solves the issue of limited RAM which is, in my case, the biggest limitation for music production. But I'd at least like to hear some more news about the modular Mac Pro and a new iMac for sake of comparison. And by October if there's no news then getting a 2017 iMac at that time would be worth the wait for me.
 

galactic orange

macrumors member
Feb 20, 2018
73
48
I would get the base model and upgrade the hard drive and memory later.



Actually, it does

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+4K+Display+(2017)+RAM+Replacement/92288
Indeed it does! Thanks for the clarification. And I thought adding a second SSD to my Mac Mini was daunting. That's a lot of steps to get to the RAM. It might be fun to try though. If I could put more than 32GB in there it would be more worthwhile doing. Next are you going to tell me that the 21.5" iMac can actually handle more than 32GB?
 
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tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
Indeed it does! Thanks for the clarification. And I thought adding a second SSD to my Mac Mini was daunting. That's a lot of steps to get to the RAM. It might be fun to try though. If I could put more than 32GB in there it would be more worthwhile doing. Next are you going to tell me that the 21.5" iMac can actually handle more than 32GB?

The most difficult part is removing/reinstall the display simply because of the weight of the display (not because of the process itself). Everything else is like rolling a rock down a hill.

You can't put more than 32GB in there simply because there are only two SODIMM slots and 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4 SODIMM memory aren't available.
 
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mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,231
417
Brooklyn, NY
I would get the base model and upgrade the hard drive and memory later.



Actually, it does

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+4K+Display+(2017)+RAM+Replacement/92288

Actually it doesn't, as #EugW said.

"User-upgradable" means an upgrade supported by the manufacturer. You can certainly upgrade the RAM in the 21.5" by breaking open your computer, but unless it's done by Apple or an Apple certified service center it will void your warranty. #tubeexerience is on a crusade to deny this, but don't be fooled.
 

tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
Actually it doesn't, as #EugW said.

"User-upgradable" means an upgrade supported by the manufacturer. You can certainly upgrade the RAM in the 21.5" by breaking open your computer, but unless it's done by Apple or an Apple certified service center it will void your warranty. #tubeexerience is on a crusade to deny this, but don't be fooled.

Upgrading your own computer doesn't void the warranty. (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act)
 
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tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
True, when user-upgradeable. Like I said. His personal crusade. It's wrong, baseless. Don't be fooled.

Straight from the FTC:

"The Federal Trade Commission staff has sent warning letters to six major companies that market and sell automobiles, cellular devices, and video gaming systems in the United States.

The letters warn that FTC staff has concerns about the companies’ statements that consumers must use specified parts or service providers to keep their warranties intact. Unless warrantors provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC, such statements generally are prohibited by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a law that governs consumer product warranties. Similarly, such statements may be deceptive under the FTC Act.

Each company used different language, but here are examples of questionable provisions:

  • The use of [company name] parts is required to keep your . . . manufacturer’s warranties and any extended warranties intact.
  • This warranty shall not apply if this product . . . is used with products not sold or licensed by [company name].
  • This warranty does not apply if this product . . . has had the warranty seal on the [product] altered, defaced, or removed.
Provisions that tie warranty coverage to the use of particular products or services harm both consumers who pay more for them as well as the small businesses who offer competing products and services,” said Thomas B. Pahl, Acting Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection."

______________________________________________________________________________

From MacSales:

Unfortunately though, there exists a misconception among some users and even technicians that opening the machine voids the warranty.

We address this topic directly with customers via our support portals and are happy to inform you here of the same fact: upgrading your Mac does not void its warranty.

This consumer protection is owed to the little known Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. Put simply, the act states that a company can’t require you to upgrade with only its own branded parts to retain the warranty. This important act protects your rights as a consumer and allows you to install upgrades with peace of mind confidence.
 
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mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,231
417
Brooklyn, NY
He's repeated this in other threads. It's inapplicable. Has nothing to do with breaking open your computer against the manufacturer's terms of service. I guarantee #tubeexperience is not going to pay for your lawyer to sue Apple when they exercise their right to deny your warranty. Don't be fooled.
 

tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
He's repeated this in other threads. It's inapplicable. Has nothing to do with breaking open your computer against the manufacturer's terms of service. I guarantee #tubeexperience is not going to pay for your lawyer to sue Apple when they exercise their right to deny your warranty. Don't be fooled.

I know English is hard.

You need to read very slowly. Maybe, do it a few times.
 

mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,231
417
Brooklyn, NY
This guy must have a repair business he's promoting. He's giving this "advice" in his interest, not anyone else's. Don't be fooled.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
tubeexperience, stop spreading misinformation. You’re doing Apple users a disservice.
 

tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
tubeexperience, stop spreading misinformation. You’re doing Apple users a disservice.

This guy must have a repair business he's promoting. He's giving this "advice" in his interest, not anyone else's. Don't be fooled.

You can go read this information on the FTC's website.

Furthermore, Apple's warranty said:

WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY THIS WARRANTY?

This Warranty does not apply to any non-Apple branded hardware products or any software, even if packaged or sold with Apple hardware. Manufacturers, suppliers, or publishers, other than Apple, may provide their own warranties to you – please contact them for further information. Software distributed by Apple with or without the Apple brand (including, but not limited to system software) is not covered by this Warranty. Please refer to the licensing agreement accompanying the software for details of your rights with respect to its use. Apple does not warrant that the operation of the Apple Product will be uninterrupted or error-free. Apple is not responsible for damage arising from failure to follow instructions relating to the Apple Product’s use.

This Warranty does not apply: (a) to protective coatings that are designed to diminish over time or batteries, unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (b) to cosmetic damage, including but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (c) to damage caused by use with a third party component or product that does not meet the Apple Product’s specifications (Apple Product specifications are available at www.apple.com under the technical specifications for each product and also available in stores); (d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, fire, liquid contact, earthquake or other external cause; (e) to damage caused by operating the Apple Product outside Apple’s published guidelines; (f) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”)

In other words, if you break it, it's your fault and the warranty is voided.

This is completely reasonable.
 
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mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,231
417
Brooklyn, NY
The well known fact, ignored by you, is that Apple will not perform warranty work on any iMac that has been opened, in effect putting the burden on you to prove that any problems/damage were not caused by you. And I don't blame them, as the iMacs are tightly built integrated machines and they are not going to guaranty anyone else's work. If you don't like that policy, which has existed since the first iMacs, you can simply not make the purchase, or you can buy the machine, crack open the case, do what you want, if it needs repair demand warranty work, and when they refuse sue Apple. If that's your advice to members of this forum, I'm sure the advice is well appreciated, although I can't imagine by whom.
 

tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
The well known fact, ignored by you, is that Apple will not perform warranty work on any iMac that has been opened, in effect putting the burden on you to prove that any problems/damage were not caused by you. And I don't blame them, as the iMacs are tightly built integrated machines and they are not going to guaranty anyone else's work. If you don't like that policy, which has existed since the first iMacs, you can simply not make the purchase, or you can sue Apple. If that's your advice to members of this forum, I'm sure the advice is well appreciated, although I can't imagine by whom.

We took an iMac (from work) in for warranty (blown speaker).

Apple replaced the speaker as expected.
 
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Jerion

macrumors member
Mar 31, 2016
97
252
Which synths will you be using? Omnisphere? I use mostly orchestral samples that I load through Kontakt with multi instances in Logic. I really hope the i5 should be enough but when loading samples, the RAM is very important and I’ll be installing 32GBs of additional ram when the iMac arrives which will give me a total of 40GBs.

I will report back.

I know musicians who have chosen the i5 over the i7 because of the fan noise issue. I’m upgrading from a MacBook Pro 2011 which has the fans running loud all the time so I really want a silent computer!

I'm running a top-end 2014 15" MBP, which is decidedly less oomph-y than any of the 27" iMacs on sale today. With 16GB of RAM and the 2.5Ghz i7 in this laptop, I've never once had an issue running Logic projects with 20+, sometimes 30+ Omnisphere tracks (and some Kontakt & Battery tracks mixed in), all loaded up with various effects. Long as you have enough RAM to go around (8GB wasn't enough, 16GB is frequently mild overkill) you'll be well-served by even the "entry level" 27" iMac...unless you're doing something insanely complex, anyway. I'd be interested to see what kind of project would genuinely benefit from 40GB of RAM!
 

Mr. 123

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
386
261
I'm running a top-end 2014 15" MBP, which is decidedly less oomph-y than any of the 27" iMacs on sale today. With 16GB of RAM and the 2.5Ghz i7 in this laptop, I've never once had an issue running Logic projects with 20+, sometimes 30+ Omnisphere tracks (and some Kontakt & Battery tracks mixed in), all loaded up with various effects. Long as you have enough RAM to go around (8GB wasn't enough, 16GB is frequently mild overkill) you'll be well-served by even the "entry level" 27" iMac...unless you're doing something insanely complex, anyway. I'd be interested to see what kind of project would genuinely benefit from 40GB of RAM!
Orchestral samples need huge amounts of RAM! I'll be loading loads of samples from an external SSD via USB3.
 
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DQ11

macrumors regular
Apr 12, 2018
199
65
I'm running a top-end 2014 15" MBP, which is decidedly less oomph-y than any of the 27" iMacs on sale today. With 16GB of RAM and the 2.5Ghz i7 in this laptop, I've never once had an issue running Logic projects with 20+, sometimes 30+ Omnisphere tracks (and some Kontakt & Battery tracks mixed in), all loaded up with various effects. Long as you have enough RAM to go around (8GB wasn't enough, 16GB is frequently mild overkill) you'll be well-served by even the "entry level" 27" iMac...unless you're doing something insanely complex, anyway. I'd be interested to see what kind of project would genuinely benefit from 40GB of RAM!

Good to know. Omnisphere is pretty taxing on the CPU isn't it?
 

Mr. 123

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
386
261
I got my iMac 3.4 this morning! The setup was easy and I started installing loads of Apps before leaving for work! I did forget to remove the plastic that was around the screen but finally removed that when I got home lol. It's not dangerous to leave it on when the computer was on right?

It's running great and everything is very fast. I still have to install Logic etc to test it for music!
 
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