New Mac Mini or Windows HTPC as media center?

[dh2005]

Because you had bad luck doesn't mean that they are bad drives... I've built dozens of computer with them, no issues so far, maybe one or two failures but that's not much for hard drive (they'll all die eventually). I know hundreds of people with them, they are VERY popular as storage.

You will always find people who have had problems with certain product. On the other hand, there are thousands, even millions of people with no issues. Your experience is just one among millions of others.

I agree that HDs can be too noisy, thus I'd get 5400rpm drives for HT setup because speed doesn't matter. 32GB SSD as boot drive if you want more silentness.

With respect, the two drives that have died have been less than a year old - and one of the slowly failing drives began to fail after only two weeks.

WD said that they'd RMA them when the broke down, but that I had to make do with them until they failed completely. So, essentially, I have to entrust these drives, that are clearly dying, to store backup data that's extremely precious to me. You can imagine how happy I feel about that.

And I'm not alone. I have a couple of friends on another forum who've had the exact same problem with the WD15EADS. These drives are crap, and it's a personal crusade of mine to trash their reputation - we clearly don't agree, so I suggest that we agree to differ and discuss something else.

 

[Hellhammer]

And I'm not alone. I have a couple of friends on another forum who've had the exact same problem with the WD15EADS. These drives are crap, and it's a personal crusade of mine to trash their reputation - we clearly don't agree, so I suggest that we agree to differ and discuss something else.

+90% of drives I've installed were either 1TB or 2TB, that might make a difference

This is truly an opinion question. Someone likes chocolate while someone else prefers licorice. There is no such a thing as perfect product anyway. Someone might have had as bad experience with Samsung as you had with Western Digital. This is pretty offtopic though, both are great drives.

 

[dh2005]

Their 1TB drives are great - I've owned eleven of those. I don't know what the Hell happened with the 1.5TB Greens... but believe me, they've all failed in the exact same way. There's a design/manufacture problem in there, somewhere.

As for your licorice/chocolate comparison; I don't think it's an "opinion question" among drive owners, whether they'd prefer a drive that works or a drive that doesn't.

And it's kinda on-topic. I'm discussing HTPC media storage solutions... kinda-kinda... ish...?

 

[DoFoT9]

Ooh, can't agree with you there, mate. Surely you remember my experience with Blu-ray rips and the 2009 Mini...?!

They don't run properly, mate. Sure, they can be transcoded - but they do not run, as is.

Hmmm I wonder what you are doing wrong. Playing the movies with quicktime or VLC?? I use plex with my ripped BD movies on my coreduo MacBook Pro listed below. It will play most movies fine, albeit with dropped frames on the action scenes.

Unfortunately I don't remember your experience with the 2009 mini, do you have a thread to link to?? Maybe there is a logical explanation. I presume you were playing them over the network too (as you have 13TB of storage lol). VLC absolutely SUCKS for streaming files.

but yea, I'm fine with playing those files, my girlfriends C2D 2.4ghz stock MBP can play them via VLC fine, where as mine cannot.

As per you hard drives, maybe you just by chance got a bad batch. There is unfortunately any such thing as 100% success rate for these types of things.

 

[dh2005]

Ah, well, there we have it... dropped frames = fail.

No compromises. If the rips aren't as good as the discs, I might as well be using the discs. And I don't want to use the discs, because the discs take-up Goddamn-f**kloads of shelf-space.

So, dude... your girlfriend's MBP; does it have the 320M GPU that's in the new Mini?

 

[gianly1985]

About dropped frames, there's a chance you can eliminate them using this hardware accelerated Plex beta:

http://bluemandrill.com/plex/Plex-hw-accel-decode-2.zip

It works only with:
- 9400M
- 320M
- GT 330M

 

[dh2005]

Thank you for this.

If it's the same Beta that I've used before, it's the one that's added hardware decoding for H.264...? If so, yes, it's certainly much better - but not perfect.

 

[gianly1985]

Thank you for this.

If it's the same Beta that I've used before, it's the one that's added hardware decoding for H.264...? If so, yes, it's certainly much better - but not perfect.

Yes, it should be the same.
I read in the comments about a couple of bugs and audio sync issues some user have experienced. I hope the do a final release as soon as possible.
Anyway, a part from Plex, in general the future looks bright thanks to the new h.264 acceleration API, I hope every major video player in OSX adopt it in the next months. (starting from VLC)

 

[dh2005]

Oh, for sure. It's a step in the right direction.

 

[DoFoT9]

Ah, well, there we have it... dropped frames = fail.

No compromises. If the rips aren't as good as the discs, I might as well be using the discs. And I don't want to use the discs, because the discs take-up Goddamn-f**kloads of shelf-space.

i just ran a test using a rip of mine "Eagle Eye" on Plex 0.8.1 (which is about 2 years old mind you), i ran it over the network from my iMac via Gigabit Ethernet, video was roughly 35Mbit/s and audio ~600kbit/s.

playing the clip from the beginning for 2 minutes straight, my CD MBP dropped exactly 207 frames during some 80,000 frames total. 100 of these frames were dropped right at the beginning of the movie as it started streaming. i can assure you that this would also happen with your computers playback, so looks like you might have to return to BD discs if you want the experience "as good as the discs".

mind you, my MBP has an uptime of 25 days and only 100MB Free Memory - which all has an effect on playback "quality".

So, dude... your girlfriend's MBP; does it have the 320M GPU that's in the new Mini?

no, my GFs 2008 MBP is 2.4GHz and has an 8600GT (GM?) inside of it. the GPU doesnt make any difference for the playback in the sense we are talking, as the CPU does all of the work (this is excluding the unreleased version of plex that can take advantage of GPGPU).

anyway, can you answer my other queries? why was your experience on the 2009 Mini so bad? did you only have the 2.0GHz model? IIRC my CoreDuo 2.16GHz benchmarked similarly (in CPU tests) to the 2.0GHz Core2Duo CPU.

 

[Hellhammer]

Their 1TB drives are great - I've owned eleven of those. I don't know what the Hell happened with the 1.5TB Greens... but believe me, they've all failed in the exact same way. There's a design/manufacture problem in there, somewhere.

Weird. If I recall correctly, 1.5TB Seagates have/had a lot issues too. Seems to be troublesome capacity

As for your licorice/chocolate comparison; I don't think it's an "opinion question" among drive owners, whether they'd prefer a drive that works or a drive that doesn't.

Well, depends on. Most people just prefer certain make because they've used it before without issues. In the end, all drives sold do their job (some models may have more issues like 1.5TB Greens) so... There is no "best" HD available, that's why I would more or less count it as an opinion question. This, if something is offtopic

And it's kinda on-topic. I'm discussing HTPC media storage solutions... kinda-kinda... ish...?

Yeah, not truly offtopic but maybe OP should reply too At least we've come to a conclusion to avoid 1.5TB HDs

 

[dh2005]

Yeah, not truly offtopic but maybe OP should reply too

Mm. Yeah, fair point...! Sorry, OP.

 

[dh2005]

anyway, can you answer my other queries? why was your experience on the 2009 Mini so bad? did you only have the 2.0GHz model? IIRC my CoreDuo 2.16GHz benchmarked similarly (in CPU tests) to the 2.0GHz Core2Duo CPU.

Oh, my experience with the 2009 Mini certainly wasn't/isn't universally bad (I'm using it right now). I love its portability, and its gaming capability is surprising decent (for older stuff, of course... but that's all I play).

But, for someone with my needs, it can't cut the mustard as an HTPC. I use a media streamer for that (a Popcorn Hour C-200) - no buffering problems, no dropped frames.

 

[BlindSoul]

nVidia 320M Is a bit better than the ATI 4550 HD one.

 

[bkspero]

Other factors to consider

Hi everyone.

I really like the new Mac Mini and I would use it as a media center, but Im looking other options. I found a website that can build an HTPC as a like. It would include Core I5, 4GB RAM, 500GB 7200rpm HDD, ATi HD 4550 512GB GDDR3 PCI-E 1G, DVD drive, wifi, windows 7, etc.

Between this one and the 2,4Ghz Mac Mini plus 4GB RAM which one would you choose? The Mac Mini is less expensive, but not that much. The advantage of the Mini is that I could use either OSX or Windows 7, smaller, better design, already have apple wireless mouse and keyboard, etc.

The other options seems more powerful, a better option for HD 1080p video, right? Which graphics cars is better? Nvidia 320M or ATI HD 4550?

Thanks everyone.

Another factor to consider is that the new Mac Mini is a first generation product in that, despite using less than cutting edge computing components, the integration of them into the new package introduces a number of new issues. Like the integrated power supply. HDMI. A new case and fan configuration.

Apple's track record in this regard is not steller. Maybe no worse than many other computer companies, but not steller. Go to the iMac threads relating to severe issues when the current gen iMacs were released a few months ago, and you will see poster after poster being berated because "..everyone knows that you never buy a gen 1 computer...", so they had no right to complain that their brand new $2000 (maybe even $2700) computer was disfunctional and Apple didn't have a clue on how to fix it (to their credit, after months they fixed the issue).

Also, if you decide to get the Mini, plan on spending another $150 for Applecare. The cost of getting a Mac fixed out of warranty is very high compared to the PCs I have owned. You might as well replace an out-of-warranty Mac rather than repair it. Apple computers have a cult reputation for higher quality, but if you research on line, and throw out the opinions of those who will automatically defend Macs to the death, and those who will automatically criticise Macs, I think you will find that Macs break down with a frequency not all that different than other reputable brands.

When I bought my Mini a year or so ago, it came down to me needing the small size and being able to get it for $350..and RAM was less than half today's prices to upgrade. So I went Mini for my HTPC, and I will throw it away if it breaks out of warranty. If I had found the PC's that you identify, and considering the cost of the new mini and of upgrading the RAM, and the ease and low cost of non-warranty repairs on PCs vs. Macs, I would buy the PC for my home theater today. And it would give you Windows Media Center, which blows away Frontrow (I am not familiar with Plex or the other HTPC software for the Mac).

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[archipellago]

only on a forum full of biased and unreasonable Apple fanboys will you find anyone recommending a Mini as an HTPC over any WMCE machine.

Quite aside from the mini's ridiculous price, it doesn't have the requisite hardware or software to even be considered by any afficienado as even a reasonable HTPC.

 

[dh2005]

Certainly for the 2009 Mini, I have to agree. I've been extremely disappointed with it, as an HTPC.

Perhaps the 2010 iteration will do better.

 

[Hellhammer]

only on a forum full of biased and unreasonable Apple fanboys will you find anyone recommending a Mini as an HTPC over any WMCE machine.

Quite aside from the mini's ridiculous price, it doesn't have the requisite hardware or software to even be considered by any afficienado as even a reasonable HTPC.

You must be a fanboy too because you're here.... If you dare to read some replies, there are several guys recommending a PC over Mini for various reasons. If you go to a PC forum to ask this same question, do you expect to get an unbiased answer? Of course fellas in here will recommend Mini more than a PC because they on Mini for HTPC purpose.

What does Mini lack other than Blu-Ray? You provided nothing to backup your statement.

 

[DoFoT9]

Oh, my experience with the 2009 Mini certainly wasn't/isn't universally bad (I'm using it right now). I love its portability, and its gaming capability is surprising decent (for older stuff, of course... but that's all I play).

But, for someone with my needs, it can't cut the mustard as an HTPC. I use a media streamer for that (a Popcorn Hour C-200) - no buffering problems, no dropped frames.

thats fair enough. i wont argue with your opinion, because it is your opinion to keep. i have a differing one, no harm done

only on a forum full of biased and unreasonable Apple fanboys will you find anyone recommending a Mini as an HTPC over any WMCE machine.

Quite aside from the mini's ridiculous price, it doesn't have the requisite hardware or software to even be considered by any afficienado as even a reasonable HTPC.

you accuse of fanboism yet you yourself are one? bit biased isnt it? incase you hadnt noticed, the mac mini is sexy, tiny, quiet, powerful and makes for the perfect home theatre. sure, its expensive, thats what you get for class though. you can go build your HTPCs if you want, we wont stop you - just dont accuse mac mini lovers in that way even if you cant understand their reasoning behind using it.

hell is right: what does a windows HTPC have over the mini (apart from BD, which is minimal).

 

[sammich]

only on a forum full of biased and unreasonable Apple fanboys will you find anyone recommending a Mini as an HTPC over any WMCE machine.

Quite aside from the mini's ridiculous price, it doesn't have the requisite hardware or software to even be considered by any afficienado as even a reasonable HTPC.

Using big words and ignorance will get you nowhere mate. My vastly older machine can be used as a HTPC, plays back Blu-ray rips without a hitch and it doesn't even have hardware decoding, which the new Mini has.

EDIT: after perusing the various forum comments regarding new Mac Mini reviews (on many large sites), two things are evident: self confessed anti-Apple people found themselves very attracted to the machine, with the vast majority of people saying the price and the lack of Blu-ray as the ONLY downside to this machine.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

You must be a fanboy too because you're here.... If you dare to read some replies, there are several guys recommending a PC over Mini for various reasons. If you go to a PC forum to ask this same question, do you expect to get an unbiased answer? Of course fellas in here will recommend Mini more than a PC because they on Mini for HTPC purpose.

What does Mini lack other than Blu-Ray? You provided nothing to backup your statement.

Expandable storage
easily replaceable components
built-in media center software
and price

 

[sammich]

Expandable storage
easily replaceable components
built-in media center software
and price

Those are valid points, however this isn't a tower, this is more or a less headless laptop, and an Apple headless laptop at that. Which means that your first two and the last one points are part and parcel of buying into Apple. But what you get for trading those things is a beautiful machine that suits the needs of many people out there, who either have storage elsewhere in the house, or have smaller collections. Just give it a month or two and companies will have matching external hard drives to match the mini, just like there are with the old ones.

Regarding the built in media centre, it does come with Frontrow, which is crippled and has iTunes as a crutch. Most people will be happy with that, but those who are will search and come across either Plex or XMBC.

I'm hoping this post doesn't come across as facetious.

 

[Hellhammer]

Expandable storage
easily replaceable components
built-in media center software
and price

If you look at what OP was looking for, that's not true. He wasn't looking for a tower. Storage can be expanded with FW800 or USB in Mini too. As for components, OP never told us does the PC he looked for use desktop or mobile components. For HTPC, this doesn't matter much either. Built-in software doesn't matter if you know how to use internet to download e.g. Plex. Price is a valid point but then you have to do it yourself (and you're looking at a tower then)

I would build a tower if I needed HTPC, but for OP, Mini seems to be enough. If he can build a tower, then I'm also on PC's side as it offers a lot things Mini doesn't, but tower is already 10 times the size of Mini. Power efficiency is also VERY important in HTPC, if you look at long run price

 

[archipellago]

You must be a fanboy too because you're here.... If you dare to read some replies, there are several guys recommending a PC over Mini for various reasons. If you go to a PC forum to ask this same question, do you expect to get an unbiased answer? Of course fellas in here will recommend Mini more than a PC because they on Mini for HTPC purpose.

What does Mini lack other than Blu-Ray? You provided nothing to backup your statement.

so if I disagree with you I'm a fanboy of some kind? Nice logic... I'm just telling it as it is, as most 'normal' people would see it.

I own an iPhone and iPad.... I'm not anti apple but their desktop machines are simply dreadful, the mini is the latest example.

mini lacks

1/ Value
2/ BRD
3/ Any form of built in broadcast TV input
4/ Decent HTPC software...


it looks nice though, but thats the start and end of its' virtues...

 

[archipellago]

If you look at what OP was looking for, that's not true. He wasn't looking for a tower. Storage can be expanded with FW800 or USB in Mini too. As for components, OP never told us does the PC he looked for use desktop or mobile components. For HTPC, this doesn't matter much either. Built-in software doesn't matter if you know how to use internet to download e.g. Plex. Price is a valid point but then you have to do it yourself (and you're looking at a tower then)

I would build a tower if I needed HTPC, but for OP, Mini seems to be enough. If he can build a tower, then I'm also on PC's side as it offers a lot things Mini doesn't, but tower is already 10 times the size of Mini. Power efficiency is also VERY important in HTPC, if you look at long run price

but genius, if you look at the picture of his alternative, that isn't a tower either.