New Mac Mini or Windows HTPC as media center?

[DoFoT9]

so if I disagree with you I'm a fanboy of some kind? Nice logic... I'm just telling it as it is, as most 'normal' people would see it.

define normal

mini lacks

1/ Value
2/ BRD
3/ Any form of built in broadcast TV input
4/ Decent HTPC software...

it looks nice though, but thats the start and end of its' virtues...

idk where you are getting the idea that the MM is a HTPC. its not. its a computer. why should apple put functionality into a computer when it would compete with the TV? where is the logic now?

but genius, if you look at the picture of his alternative, that isn't a tower either.

oh come on. dont be ridiculous - play nice.

 

[archipellago]

Using big words and ignorance will get you nowhere mate. My vastly older machine can be used as a HTPC, plays back Blu-ray rips without a hitch and it doesn't even have hardware decoding, which the new Mini has.

EDIT: after perusing the various forum comments regarding new Mac Mini reviews (on many large sites), two things are evident: self confessed anti-Apple people found themselves very attracted to the machine, with the vast majority of people saying the price and the lack of Blu-ray as the ONLY downside to this machine.

lol, shows the standard on here if any of the words I used were considered 'big'

Most machines can play transcoded BR Rips, that wasn't the point (that you missed)

as has been discussed here...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/920085/

it struggles with the real thing..whether this new one is any better time will tell, but with BRD ROMS now this price..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135205

then why not go the native hardware way?


its a non decision, vanity is the only reason to buy the new Mini.

 

[Hellhammer]

so if I disagree with you I'm a fanboy of some kind? Nice logic... I'm just telling it as it is, as most 'normal' people would see it.

I own an iPhone and iPad.... I'm not anti apple but their desktop machines are simply dreadful, the mini is the latest example.

mini lacks

1/ Value
2/ BRD
3/ Any form of built in broadcast TV input
4/ Decent HTPC software...


it looks nice though, but thats the start and end of its' virtues...

only on a forum full of biased and unreasonable Apple fanboys

So you say everyone who is a member in here is an Apple fanboy...

but genius, if you look at the picture of his alternative, that isn't a tower either.

That's what I mean. It doesn't have expandable storage and upgradeable components are unknown. It doesn't have Blu-Ray either so what's your point in BR? Mini is also cheaper than the PC box OP showed. Built in HTPC software doesn't matter, Internet has been invented years ago.

If I had to choose between those, I'd get Mini. If it was custom tower vs Mini, I wouldn't even consider Mini

 

[DoFoT9]

Most machines can play transcoded BR Rips, that wasn't the point (that you missed)

as has been discussed here...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/920085/

it struggles with the real thing..whether this new one is any better time will tell, but with BRD ROMS now this price..

if you even bothered to read the thread instead of blurting all over the place, even my 2006 CoreDuo MBP can play FULL 1080p ripped mkvs without a problem. the OP of that thread is having an isolated issue, we will resolve it eventually. if you read the thread from just yesterday, it might turn out to be the type of connection that is used, or something else.

it might even be the drivers or something, who knows - my point is though that you have no first hand experience with playing back those files, and are just trying to back everything up based on one users experience. if you were to read the first page you would see a multitude of other users who have no problem with playing ripped BDs.

 

[sammich]

lol, shows the standard on here if any of the words I used were considered 'big'

I couldn't agree more.

Most machines can play transcoded BR Rips, that wasn't the point (that you missed)

as has been discussed here...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/920085/

it struggles with the real thing..whether this new one is any better time will tell, but with BRD ROMS now this price..

You seem to be grasping at straws. That happens to be a single incident, and like the poster above me, my similarly old machine can play the raw BD rip with no problems, even with extended monitor mode.

its a non decision, vanity is the only reason to buy the new Mini.

I guess there must be a lot of vain people out there. It's ironic because vanity is comparable to ego. And your ego is the thing that is compelling you to continue replying to this pointless argument.

 

[archipellago]

if you even bothered to read the thread instead of blurting all over the place, even my 2006 CoreDuo MBP can play FULL 1080p ripped mkvs without a problem. the OP of that thread is having an isolated issue, we will resolve it eventually. if you read the thread from just yesterday, it might turn out to be the type of connection that is used, or something else.

it might even be the drivers or something, who knows - my point is though that you have no first hand experience with playing back those files, and are just trying to back everything up based on one users experience. if you were to read the first page you would see a multitude of other users who have no problem with playing ripped BDs.

nope, everyone with no problems are playing transcodes not uncompressed rips. Its a weakness of the product, of course if Apple included BRD then it wouldn't be a an issue..maybe..?

seeing as Apple is a BRD board member their abstinence is strange...

 

[archipellago]

I couldn't agree more.



You seem to be grasping at straws. That happens to be a single incident, and like the poster above me, my similarly old machine can play the raw BD rip with no problems, even with extended monitor mode.



I guess there must be a lot of vain people out there. It's ironic because vanity is comparable to ego. And your ego is the thing that is compelling you to continue replying to this pointless argument.

I agree its a pointless argument..ANYWHERE but an Apple board.

 

[DoFoT9]

nope, everyone with no problems are playing transcodes not uncompressed rips. Its a weakness of the product, of course if Apple included BRD then it wouldn't be a an issue..maybe..?

myself, sammich, flopticalcube and a number of others use direct BD rips. none of this torrented crap. dont deny the facts please.

seeing as Apple is a BRD board member their abstinence is strange...

somewhat. the format has just changed, current BD drives are now outdated. apple would be waiting for it to settle down, not to mention that it conflicts with their movie/tv store listings.

 

[archipellago]

myself, sammich, flopticalcube and a number of others use direct BD rips. none of this torrented crap. dont deny the facts please.


somewhat. the format has just changed, current BD drives are now outdated. apple would be waiting for it to settle down, not to mention that it conflicts with their movie/tv store listings.

I'm not confusing the facts, I've even just re-read the last couple of pages of that thread.... no way getting round it, I'm right.


don't talk such rot about Apple's status as a BRD board member. iTunes was well established when they joined it and the BRD firmware can be updated via ethernet anyway. More like Apple supported BRD as MS were behind HDDVD

 

[DoFoT9]

I'm not confusing the facts, I've even just re-read the last couple of pages of that thread.... no way getting round it, I'm right.

stuttering when the movie first loaded. pure sign of network buffering issues right there. once that is done with, for ANY normal user the experience would be perfectly fine - the OP just said it himself that generic users would be fine with it. unfortunately, you are looking at the worst case scenario, and fail to see the "normal" persons view as you so belligerently pointed out before. double standards much?

don't talk such rot about Apple's status as a BRD board member. iTunes was well established when they joined it and the BRD firmware can be updated via ethernet anyway. More like Apple supported BRD as MS were behind HDDVD

you and i both have absolutely no idea what we are talking about WRT this, unless you work on the apple board? they have their reasons.

 

[archipellago]

stuttering when the movie first loaded. pure sign of network buffering issues right there. once that is done with, for ANY normal user the experience would be perfectly fine - the OP just said it himself that generic users would be fine with it. unfortunately, you are looking at the worst case scenario, and fail to see the "normal" persons view as you so belligerently pointed out before. double standards much?


you and i both have absolutely no idea what we are talking about WRT this, unless you work on the apple board? they have their reasons.

Nice attempt to change the argument. The original question was can the mini play brd rips to the same standard and quality as the original disc?

The answer is clearly no and one person perception of normal is irrelevant.

Yes the blu Ray board membership issue is strange and we are guessing but why join on organization or even stay on the board when you describe it as a 'bag of hurt'?

Pathetic...

 

[dh2005]

Archie and I have had our (largely polite) disagreements in the past, but I must step in here and affirm that the 2009 Mini cannot perform the HD media tasks that I asked of it. Maybe the 2010 Mini can, but the 2009 couldn't and can't.

I will, however, agree in part with what the other side say - not everyone who wants an HTPC is as unremittingly anal as I am (there's no other word for it... I know that I am, and I'm okay with that), and most folks really wouldn't care about the fine details that piss me off so badly.

Furthermore, most folks steal their HD movies from torrents, which means they're running 720p/1080p transcodes and seem to assume that these are 'the same quality' as Blu-ray dumps (they, quite simply, are not).


These reasons, I'm sure, are why the Mini has enjoyed such a positive reputation as an HTPC around here - most folks don't mind (or even notice) the odd playback glitch, and the stuff that they're running comes within the performance ceiling of the machine anyway.


But I say again... if you're looking for something that runs Blu-ray dumps as well as a Blu-ray player, forget it. The Mini (at least, until four days ago) definitely couldn't do it.


Please, please don't tell me that it can. I've been Beta-testing HD media streamers for more than a year, and I know a dropped frame when I see one.

 

[kermit4161]

I'll jump in here as one of the "less anal" mini users. I purchased a C2D 2.0 ghz in 2007 (?) and have been using it as my HTPC ever since. I watch Hulu primarily along with Netflix... both of which run perfectly as long as my Internet connection is up. I also run a Netgear NV+ NAS where I RIP out normal DVDs... which the mini handles just perfect from Front Row. For BluRay, I use my PS3. All of this runs just fine for me.

I did just purchase the new mini (2.4 Ghz) and 8 GB of RAM to replace it. I'm moving the old one over to replace my old G4 1.0DP dinosaur. The thing about Macs is they will last longer than PCs do. My G4 was built in the early part of this decade and has been running fine. If my better video card hadn't died (my fault) it'd still be kicking. I work in a school district technology department... we refresh our PCs at 5 years and they are on their LAST legs at that point.

The mini is an excellent computer for what it was designed for... and works just fine as a HTPC for those of us who don't mind using a BRD player and external storage.

Cheers

 

[archipellago]

I'll jump in here as one of the "less anal" mini users. I purchased a C2D 2.0 ghz in 2007 (?) and have been using it as my HTPC ever since. I watch Hulu primarily along with Netflix... both of which run perfectly as long as my Internet connection is up. I also run a Netgear NV+ NAS where I RIP out normal DVDs... which the mini handles just perfect from Front Row. For BluRay, I use my PS3. All of this runs just fine for me.

I did just purchase the new mini (2.4 Ghz) and 8 GB of RAM to replace it. I'm moving the old one over to replace my old G4 1.0DP dinosaur. The thing about Macs is they will last longer than PCs do. My G4 was built in the early part of this decade and has been running fine. If my better video card hadn't died (my fault) it'd still be kicking. I work in a school district technology department... we refresh our PCs at 5 years and they are on their LAST legs at that point.

The mini is an excellent computer for what it was designed for... and works just fine as a HTPC for those of us who don't mind using a BRD player and external storage.

Cheers

my experience with mini's (vs PC's) based on 30+ machines would be the exact opposite.

I agree that the G4's will last and were very well built. The newer intels however, total different ball game.

I've not had one get past 2 years without the need for some form of service. Hard drives, superdrives and logic boards all fail remarkably quickly. I even mention the fail rate when I supply them now.

 

[bkspero]

+0.8

my experience with mini's (vs PC's) based on 30+ machines would be the exact opposite.

I agree that the G4's will last and were very well built. The newer intels however, total different ball game.

I've not had one get past 2 years without the need for some form of service. Hard drives, superdrives and logic boards all fail remarkably quickly. I even mention the fail rate when I supply them now.

I don't know that I'd say that the new Intel Macs are worse than PC's today, but agree with the general sentiment that Macs are not head and shoulders above them (and maybe even no better). My experience on 5 is that one Macbook required 2 major repairs (superdrive and case top), another Macbook came with a defective memory stick, one Mac Pro required a new Logic board, and the other 2 are less than 1 year old without issues. All repairs under Applecare.

Maybe one reason you feel like Intel Macs are unreliable is because proprietary parts cost an arm and a leg to get replaced if you haven't paid extra for Applecare (on top of the Apple price premium)? Possible? With a PC you can almost always find a high performance, generic replacement part for much less than the respective Apple part. Probably even an upgrade over the original part that failed (think graphics cards).

The Logic board replacement took some insistence before the Apple Tech ran out of excuses why it was my fault. I wasted a couple of days picking them all apart before he had no choice but to do the repair. The other repairs were done quickly and graciously at the Apple store. So overall, Apple tech support compensated, to some degree, for the repair issues. Then again, considering all the extra that I paid in terms of Apple's high prices, and then Applecare on top of that, they should have come to my house to fix the computers and brought me dinner as well.

My old 1.4 gHz PPC Mac Mini is still going strong, though (with an occasional mystery hiccup).

 

[CWallace]

Archie and I have had our (largely polite) disagreements in the past, but I must step in here and affirm that the 2009 Mini cannot perform the HD media tasks that I asked of it. Maybe the 2010 Mini can, but the 2009 couldn't and can't.

If CaveMan is correct in his suggestion that the 2009 Mini stumbles on trying to real-time decode the HD audio tracks (which results in video stutters due to CPU cycle starvation), that the 2010 Mini should be able to pass them direct to an HD audio ready receiver via the HDMI port should hopefully fix it.

 

[Hellhammer]

If CaveMan is correct in his suggestion that the 2009 Mini stumbles on trying to real-time decode the HD audio tracks (which results in video stutters due to CPU cycle starvation), that the 2010 Mini should be able to pass them direct to an HD audio ready receiver via the HDMI port should hopefully fix it.

He said that in another thread I think. Mainly because of the audio because it has to be decoded when broadcasting through headphone jack.

I dropped him a PM and asked if he could explain this all as I couldn't find his post

 

[kermit4161]

my experience with mini's (vs PC's) based on 30+ machines would be the exact opposite.

I agree that the G4's will last and were very well built. The newer intels however, total different ball game.

I've not had one get past 2 years without the need for some form of service. Hard drives, superdrives and logic boards all fail remarkably quickly. I even mention the fail rate when I supply them now.

I've got a lab of 21 17" CD 1.83s running right now going on its 5th year and only RMA'd a Superdrive so far. Considering the use the lab gets... that's pretty good imo.

 

[archipellago]

I've got a lab of 21 17" CD 1.83s running right now going on its 5th year and only RMA'd a Superdrive so far. Considering the use the lab gets... that's pretty good imo.

I wouldn't count the polycarbs as 'newer intels'

 

[Hellhammer]

I wouldn't count the polycarbs as 'newer intels'

17" has never been made of polycarbonate. Overall quality of computers has gone down a lot since the introduction of cheapish laptops but so has the demand. Most Macs are still just fine, just like other computers. Hard drive failures are today, EVERY drive will fail. I wouldn't say Macs have generally higher failure rate than other computers

 

[Cave Man]

If CaveMan is correct in his suggestion that the 2009 Mini stumbles on trying to real-time decode the HD audio tracks (which results in video stutters due to CPU cycle starvation), that the 2010 Mini should be able to pass them direct to an HD audio ready receiver via the HDMI port should hopefully fix it.

I was inferring the Mini's problem based upon my MBA's performance, which uses the same 9400m chipsets and a bit slower CPU. However, the question is, do any of the current apps know what to do with True HD and DTS HD audio? What needs done is for someone who has the new mini and a receiver with HDMI input that can decode those two has to try to see if they get passed through and are properly decoded from the m2ts streams. That's the only way we'll know.

 

[Sensamic]

Ok, so I'm doing some research to try to determine which way to go for my HTPC: new mac mini or windows HTPC (the one I showed on the first page). All your comments are very helpful.

Will the performance of the mini as a media center improved under windows 7 via bootcamp? I mean, if I use windows media center, I'll have better HD codec support, more updates to video players, better HD performance, etc. Am I right?

The 320 has hardware acceleration, so if even Plex does not fully support it right now, I might use windows media center which does fully support it, i guess... Does anyone know? Then I'll wait to the new Plex is released and that way almost any HD video will play good, right?

So, reading everyones comments, what I see is that the mini wont play 30GB HD videos very smoothly, or not at all. HD videos which are smaller than, lets say 10GB, do play nice. I dont really plan on ripping or downloading such big files as 30GB, but I do have some HD movies and videos which are 4GB more or less. This one play good under my imac, but when playing them on Plex the image was not that good, with pixels very big on the playback. Then I tried XMBC and it played perfectly.

Is there some setting I need to do on Plex to play HD better?

 

[Hellhammer]

Ok, so I'm doing some research to try to determine which way to go for my HTPC: new mac mini or windows HTPC (the one I showed on the first page). All your comments are very helpful.

Will the performance of the mini as a media center improved under windows 7 via bootcamp? I mean, if I use windows media center, I'll have better HD codec support, more updates to video players, better HD performance, etc. Am I right?

The 320 has hardware acceleration, so if even Plex does not fully support it right now, I might use windows media center which does fully support it, i guess... Does anyone know? Then I'll wait to the new Plex is released and that way almost any HD video will play good, right?

So, reading everyones comments, what I see is that the mini wont play 30GB HD videos very smoothly, or not at all. HD videos which are smaller than, lets say 10GB, do play nice. I dont really plan on ripping or downloading such big files as 30GB, but I do have some HD movies and videos which are 4GB more or less. This one play good under my imac, but when playing them on Plex the image was not that good, with pixels very big on the playback. Then I tried XMBC and it played perfectly.

Is there some setting I need to do on Plex to play HD better?

Official release of Plex doesn't support hardware acceleration, yet. It's easy to add though http://elan.plexapp.com/2010/04/27/hardware-accelerated-h-264-decoding-on-plex/

As for HD videos, they'll work fine if you have such low quality HD vids. It may not play "true" BR rips which are ridiculously big anyway.

 

[archipellago]

Ok, so I'm doing some research to try to determine which way to go for my HTPC: new mac mini or windows HTPC (the one I showed on the first page). All your comments are very helpful.

Will the performance of the mini as a media center improved under windows 7 via bootcamp? I mean, if I use windows media center, I'll have better HD codec support, more updates to video players, better HD performance, etc. Am I right?

The 320 has hardware acceleration, so if even Plex does not fully support it right now, I might use windows media center which does fully support it, i guess... Does anyone know? Then I'll wait to the new Plex is released and that way almost any HD video will play good, right?

So, reading everyones comments, what I see is that the mini wont play 30GB HD videos very smoothly, or not at all. HD videos which are smaller than, lets say 10GB, do play nice. I dont really plan on ripping or downloading such big files as 30GB, but I do have some HD movies and videos which are 4GB more or less. This one play good under my imac, but when playing them on Plex the image was not that good, with pixels very big on the playback. Then I tried XMBC and it played perfectly.

Is there some setting I need to do on Plex to play HD better?

..or to put your post in better context.

Win 7 would seem to suit your needs better than OSX, so again why buy the badly specced hardware at a ridiculous price?

surely it would be better to get custom built (or build yourself) what you actually want?

 

[FireWire2]

Other solution

What about the HD media players fully support BD.ISO, MKV, M2TS, DVD.ISO, DTS-HD, true-HD 7.1 surround sound and burn less than 12W of power
Media sources can be USB, internal HDD and/or Network drives....

I used to built HTPC before, but no longer because:
- most of HTPC can not support 7.1 loose-less audio with a decent cost
- Take too much power
- Too much codec to deal with
- HDPC problems to deal with
- PC/miniMAC are not really fit into a media environment
and most important the other significant can not operates.

There are lots more reasons, but i just list the things that comes to mind right now...

You can get EP6000B, DVICO, POPCORN, DUNE, range from $159.00 to $450.00 and thrown any media content to it. It will play and you never need to deal with codec(s) like in mini-MAC, Windows or Linux system.

Another nice thing about this is: you can the OLD computer (door stop system) load it with FreeNAS
Whola you can stream your content to these players...

Why bother take a Full OS and turns it to a specific task... It's kind of wasted

Just my 2 cents