MP 7,1 New Mac Pro or not?

[layzarc]

When I left my last job in software development 16 years ago I intentionally switched from Windows to a PowerMac G5 to avoid any conflict with my employment agreement. What I didn't expect was how much faster the machine was and how pleasant it was working in the Mac operating system. Since then I've added another PowerMac G5 (Quad) and two Mac Pro 5,1s to my "compute farm". All four were routinely upgraded and are still running great but obviously desktop speeds have advanced significantly . I have estimated that the new Mac Pro with TurboBoosts >4 Ghz, 3-4x faster RAM , and AVX512 will be ~3x faster than a 5,1 for a single core.

So right now I'm at a tipping point on the new Mac Pro: wait for expected sticker shock for BTO or go back to a Windows (Yuk!). The only new Mac Pro option I would be willing to wait and pay for is one with a W3175X instead of a W3275M, a whopping $4400 difference (Intel suggested prices) to gain mostly the ability to go to 1.5TB RAM instead of 512GB (more than I need). What are the odds that Apple will offer this as an option?

Al

 

[ct2k7]

Windows has changed in 16 years.

Don't be constrained by the OS, and similarly, use whatever works best.

 

[sirio76]

The only choice for the 28core is the 3275M(7400$), Apple won’t offer the 3175(3000$) nor the 3275(4400$), but you can can upgrade that by yourself and save some money(I’ll go for the 3275, same as the 3275M but limited to 1TB). Single threaded speed will be greater than 3x, once you’ll get the new system you will think of your 5.1 as vintage hardware or ancient if you consider the G5. Of course now PC folks will come in full force telling that you will get the same performance for half the price, and that’s true, they will not tell you about the many downside though.

 

[defjam]

The only choice for the 28core is the 3275M(7400$), Apple won’t offer the 3175(3000$) nor the 3275(4400$), but you can can upgrade that by yourself and save some money(I’ll go for the 3275, same as the 3275M but limited to 1TB). Single threaded speed will be greater than 3x, once you’ll get the new system you will think of your 5.1 as vintage hardware or ancient if you consider the G5. Of course now PC folks will come in full force telling that you will get the same performance for half the price, and that’s true, they will not tell you about the many downside though.

Then would you be so kind to do so?

 

[AidenShaw]

but you can can upgrade that by yourself

While the socket may be the same, we'll have to wait until someone tries to upgrade to find out if the BIOS locks out untested CPUs.

 

[defjam]

This one is easy: If you need 28 cores and 512GB memory capacity buy the Mac Pro. There are no other Apple options.

 

[fendersrule]

Building a PC for sure. I'll keep using my 5,1 until the new Ryzen and Dune Pro case comes out, which could still be awhile.

Apple has out-priced Prosumers with the Mac Pro 7,1. They simply don't want enthusiasts and people who do work on the side to buy it.

My 3,1, with an educational discount and the 4-core downgrade option costed me 1 month of paychecks with a summer job that paid around $18 an hour while I lived at home in-between classes. I make more than triple that now, and I would have to save up 3 months of paychecks while eating pork and beans to afford it. Since I'm not using it to make money, the price makes absolutely no sense. This is a very stark difference in Apple's pricing strategy for the new Mac Pro vs the prior gens. It has nothing to do with inflation, and everything to do with pricing anyone out that isn't a professional.

btw, Windows 10 is fantastic. Windows 10 is actually faster on a 5,1 than High Sierra is....not to mention gaming is 30% faster (which isn't surprising). I find myself hanging out in Windows 10 more than MacOS on my 5,1.

It's going to be annoying for awhile after the switch because I need to pull out all of my photos out of Apple's ecosystem. I'm also going to miss Messages acting like my phone, when I am away from my Phone which is probably the best thing about MacOS.

 

[layzarc]

I should qualify my Windows Yuk comment to be relative to my software development. My two 5,1s both have BootCamp partitions: one with Windows 7 and the other Windows 10. I like Windows 7 for other things but Windows 10's only advantage to me is I can easily install and run Linux in its subsystem.

 

[sirio76]

Then would you be so kind to do so?

Given that if you buy a workstation from a reputable brand it will cost you as much as an Apple product, in order to save money you should build the system by yourself, then you will be able to save some money. To do so you need to search for the right components hoping everything is fine, order them, assemble the system, pay for the OS, install the OS(install Windows is not as smooth as installing MacOS, don’t know about Linux since I don’t use it), tune the BIOS for good performance(clock, RAM, fan profile that will never get the same noise level of a Mac, etc). Install drivers, update drivers(that frequently brake GPU renderer), upgrade Windows with the chance something goes wrong(it happened me so many time, oh, and when it decide arbitrarily to upgrade while you are rendering overnight you’ll loose your render job). Then you’ll need an antivirus, upgrade it frequently, and even if you do so there will be always the chance something goes wrong(most companies I worked with all have days of partial/complete shutdown due to virus, ransomwere, etc, never see that with companies using MacOS).
You need to manage and clean disks since in time the system collect a large number of useless junk, etc. You also need to manage paging file since when you fill your RAM Windows is nowhere near as good and stable as MacOS. About the OS, people seems to think that the important think is to work inside the application thinking as the OS were invisible, well.. that’s not my experience, the OS counts a lot, inside and outside the software you work with. Back to the hardware, if something goes wrong with your machine you’ll still have the warranty on individual parts, but fixing them it will not work as smooth as with Apple, HP or other premium brands, all of that if you are lucky and you are able to isolate the hardware issue, if you are not sure about where the issue comes from(happens frequently) it’s a real problem since you can not claim a brand new machine. Resale value of Mac is far greater than assembled machines, you also need to factor this when pricing a system.
I have more PC than Mac and managing them(I do that by my self) cost money since it’s time I subtract from my work. I use my Windows machines as a cheap computing nodes and I’m fairly happy with them, but there’s no way I’ll consider to use assembled PC as workstation on a daily usage as long as Mac will provide the hardware I need. This is my experience, of course YMMV.

 

[defjam]

Given that if you buy a workstation from a reputable brand it will cost you as much as an Apple product, in order to save money you should build the system by yourself, then you will be able to save some money. To do so you need to search for the right components hoping everything is fine, order them, assemble the system, pay for the OS, install the OS(install Windows is not as smooth as installing MacOS, don’t know about Linux since I don’t use it), tune the BIOS for good performance(clock, RAM, fan profile that will never get the same noise level of a Mac, etc). Install drivers, update drivers(that frequently brake GPU renderer), upgrade Windows with the chance something goes wrong(it happened me so many time, oh, and when it decide arbitrarily to upgrade while you are rendering overnight you’ll loose your render job). Then you’ll need an antivirus, upgrade it frequently, and even if you do so there will be always the chance something goes wrong(most companies I worked with all have days of partial/complete shutdown due to virus, ransomwere, etc, never see that with companies using MacOS).
You need to manage and clean disks since in time the system collect a large number of useless junk, etc. You also need to manage paging file since when you fill your RAM Windows is nowhere near as good and stable as MacOS. About the OS, people seems to think that the important think is to work inside the application thinking as the OS were invisible, well.. that’s not my experience, the OS counts a lot, inside and outside the software you work with. Back to the hardware, if something goes wrong with your machine you’ll still have the warranty on individual parts, but fixing them it will not work as smooth as with Apple, HP or other premium brands, all of that if you are lucky and you are able to isolate the hardware issue, if you are not sure about where the issue comes from(happens frequently) it’s a real problem since you can not claim a brand new machine. Resale value of Mac is far greater than assembled machines, you also need to factor this when pricing a system.
I have more PC than Mac and managing them(I do that by my self) cost money since it’s time I subtract from my work. I use my Windows machines as a cheap computing nodes and I’m fairly happy with them, but there’s no way I’ll consider to use assembled PC as workstation on a daily usage as long as Mac will provide the hardware I need. This is my experience, of course YMMV.

I agree if you're looking for a workstation class system a name brand workstation (such as Apple, HP, or Dell) is definitely the way to go. I would never recommend a home built PC for such systems. We're in 100% agreement.

As for Windows, well, about the only thing I will agree with you is the inability to prevent updates except with certain Windows versions. Other than that I get the impression the last time you used Windows was back in the Windows XP days and / or on the very type of hardware you say to avoid. I use Windows regularly and don't do much of what you've described nor had the types of problems you've described. AZs ct2k7 said: Windows has changed in 16 years.

 

[sirio76]

Well, unfortunately I’ve used Windows at least once a week(often more) for the last decade. I use both 7 and 10, skipped 8.

 

[defjam]

Well, unfortunately I’ve used Windows at least once a week(often more) for the last decade. I use both 7 and 10, skipped 8.

Thankfully my experience with it has been the complete opposite of yours. I would suggest you have your system checked out by someone knowledgeable about Windows.

 

[fendersrule]

Windows 10 is the best Windows since Windows XP.

 

[kjohansen]

I currently have Mac Pro (early 2008), it has been a great machine for my photography business. I have a Macbook Pro that is older than the Mac Pro, both are at the stage where I cannot upgrade the o/s anymore. I have a PC running Win 10, I thought that may be the way to go but alas... I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10, the computer was running fine then I hear the glitch sound over the speakers. It sounded awful and when I changed what the monitor was viewing to the PC, the machine was dead and would not boot... Only after a day and half of time did I figure out what it had done. I had to reload a system disk and then my data disk was missing. What the hell, took more time but I figured out what Win 10 had done, it unnumbered the drives so it did not know about the drives.. I had to manually go in and give the data drive a new drive letter, this is totally unacceptable to have as a work computer. My Mac Pro has a really cool video card that is not supported by Apple, but it works... And I have two monitors with one a display port only monitor... The new iMac Pro and Mac Pro are outrageously priced. Not even available yet. I can live with 8 cores which is more than I have now... So intro level Mac Pro.... So I wait and not patiently... There is a lot of software that would make my life easier but need 10.12 at least and mine is stuck at 10.11

 

[defjam]

I currently have Mac Pro (early 2008), it has been a great machine for my photography business. I have a Macbook Pro that is older than the Mac Pro, both are at the stage where I cannot upgrade the o/s anymore. I have a PC running Win 10, I thought that may be the way to go but alas... I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10, the computer was running fine then I hear the glitch sound over the speakers. It sounded awful and when I changed what the monitor was viewing to the PC, the machine was dead and would not boot... Only after a day and half of time did I figure out what it had done. I had to reload a system disk and then my data disk was missing. What the hell, took more time but I figured out what Win 10 had done, it unnumbered the drives so it did not know about the drives.. I had to manually go in and give the data drive a new drive letter, this is totally unacceptable to have as a work computer. My Mac Pro has a really cool video card that is not supported by Apple, but it works... And I have two monitors with one a display port only monitor... The new iMac Pro and Mac Pro are outrageously priced. Not even available yet. I can live with 8 cores which is more than I have now... So intro level Mac Pro.... So I wait and not patiently... There is a lot of software that would make my life easier but need 10.12 at least and mine is stuck at 10.11

Have you considered a 5,1 Mac Pro? It would be a good solution to running 10.12 at considerably less cost. Once the cMP no longer works for you I'm sure the 7,1 Mac Pro will be available refurbished / used.

 

[fendersrule]

The 5,1 Mac Pro is enormously faster than the 3,1 Mac Pro!

But at this point, you need to be a tinkerer to recommend a vanilla 5,1 Mac Pro in order to get it setup, installed with semi-latest MacOS, and running right. You'll never see Catalina--only Mojave, and that's with spending some bucks for a RX570/580. You won't get a boot screen either, which you may/may not care about.

It's enthusiast status, for sure....mainly just in the setup/installing part. Once it's up and going it's scotch free.

But for Photography, there's no reason to hang on to that slow-poke 3,1! Why not a Core i5/i7 iMac?

 

[defjam]

The 5,1 Mac Pro is enormously faster than the 3,1 Mac Pro!

But at this point, you need to be a tinkerer to recommend a vanilla 5,1 Mac Pro in order to get it setup, installed with semi-latest MacOS, and running right. You'll never see Catalina--only Mojave, and that's with spending some bucks for a RX570/580. You won't get a boot screen either, which you may/may not care about.

It's enthusiast status, for sure....mainly just in the setup/installing part. Once it's up and going it's scotch free.

But for Photography, there's no reason to hang on to that slow-poke 3,1! Why not a Core i5/i7 iMac?

OP said he needed macOS 10.12 at a minimum. Both 10.12 and 10.13 are supported on the 5,1 Mac Pro. The OP would not need to do anything special to install either OS on a 5,1. I didn't recommend anything that could not accept a different internal GPU as the OP stated he has a "really cool video card" in his 3,1 so I assumed he would want to move it to a new system (but he would have to check to ensure it would work with 10.12 or 10.13).

If the OP needs Catalina support then the 7,1 Mac Pro appears to be his only option (I assume he doesn't want a Mini or the iMac which would both be fine alternatives for photography).

 

[crjackson2134]

MP51 with an inexpensive GPU upgrade is fully supported in Mojave. Security updates will continue for nearly 2 more years.

You CAN install Catalina and it works well (considering it needs to mature a little more).

I run both Mojave / Catalina on a MP51 and it works fine. I’m just a regular user, so there is no special knowledge required on the part of the OP, If he/she decides to go that route until a NEW purchase is in his/her viewfinder.

 

[lclev]

I do a ton of video and photo work. I have a Mac Pro 5,1 and a custom built Windows 10 PC. Both are very beefy machines. I use both - when one is encoding the other can be worked on if all is going well.

I can not justify the cost of the new Mac Pro 7,1. A basic machine at $5999 plus the monitor with the $1000 stand? I can wait until used ones hit eBay or the refurbs hit the apple store.

As for comparing operating systems... well....
Yes, Windows 10 is an improvement over XP and 8. I still love Windows 7 but support for it is fast fading. That said, I really do not care for Windows 10 for a lot of previously stated in post #9 & #14. It really screws up my day when I think I will be getting started only to be hit with an unwanted big update that is now going to take a hour or better to install. That never happens on my mac.

I have installed both Mojave and Catalina on my Mac Pro on separate SSD's. Mojave is stable but Catalina is not playing well with Adobe CC. So, for now I am using Mojave and I am okay with that.

 

[fendersrule]

I'm surprised here fellas. Listen, I love the 5,1 Mac Pro. It's the best computer I've ever owned. The fact that it's able to stick with the punches since 2009-10 (the 5,1) and to this day being able to rip through games and good frame-rates at 1440p resolutions using 60-100hz monitors is a testament to this truth. It still serves well as a "prosumer" or "enthusiast" machine.

But in no way, shape or form, can a first gen i7 keep up with encoding, rendering, major photo work, or 4k movie editing if your business relies on it. It is foolish to buy a Mac Pro 5,1 at this point for doing real, "time is money" work, that supports you and your family.

I'm surprised that someone did this last year, but it's worth to check it out. This is how our Xeons (basically the same exact thing as an i7 990x....that is if you have the best Xeon you can get for your Mac Pro) compares against an i9 9900:

The Performance & Power Efficiency Of The Core i7 990X vs. Core i9 9900K - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Don't fool yourself. I love 5,1s. It still gets MY 1080p video editing done (hobby) and allows for fast 1440p gaming on a 60Hz monitor. But what if I switched over to 2.5-4k video editing and charged for it? What if I wanted to push 144Hz in games, or move up to 4k in games? What if I had to render something professionally and the time difference was 2 hours vs 1 hour with modern hardware? Ehrm, no.

No one should be buying these to do real work in 2019. Looking at 5,1 prices, they really have not came down. They are not a "steal." To get a loaded 5,1, with a GOOD CPU, lots of ram, and the best CPUs (x5690) you are still looking at around $1,000 if not more. How long do you trust the PSU to keep running, all the fans?

To me, this really feels a lot like the late G4 MDD days when the G5 came out. Boy I held on to my G4 MDD. Overclocked it to 1.5GHz, loaded up the HDDs, added a SATA card. Upgraded the GPU to a 7800 GS OC and had the bios flashed and got a couple years out of it. I feel like I'm at that point with the G4 MDD with my Mac Pro 5,1. Can I get a couple years out of it? Yep! Should I buy one right now for $1,000+ and hope to get 4 years out of it and call that a smart decision? Nope, and that's regardless of real work or not.

Regarding Windows 10--I notice the auto-updates a lot on my work PC because IT has it enabled to shut down every so often. On my 5,1 Mac Pro, I do NOT have the same issue because I rarely ever shut it down. In-fact, I don't even really remember it happening much at all on my Mac. Sleep works very well, unlike what many are reporting with the latest MacOS. Nothing pisses me off more than sleep not working properly. And you get a feeling that Windows really supports your Mac, whereas in MacOS you feel like you are hanging by a thread at this point. You will NEED a boot-screen capable GPU whenever things go wrong--are you OK with having a 5770 or whatever on hand? I've had to use it a few times over the past couple years.

"Catalina" does not OFFICIALLY support the Mac Pro 5,1.

Again, I'm mostly an enthusiast so I'm fine with minor toying with things. But if I was getting real work done and making money...I would leave this machine behind quickly.

 

[mmomega]

I bought an iMac Pro for the office and almost had a heart-attack. My wife talked me in to it and it still hurt buying that thing.
I couldn't imagine a mid-max 28 Core spec $$$$$.... but I guess I couldn't imagine having an 18Core prior to having it either. 🤷‍♂️
I'm going to have that thing for a LONG time.

 

[sirio76]

Thankfully my experience with it has been the complete opposite of yours. I would suggest you have your system checked out by someone knowledgeable about Windows.

All of my systems were setup by a professional IT manager, he use to manage both servers and workstations for university and schools so I'm pretty sure he know very well what he is doing. Since I only use the machines for render tasks I'm expecting them to run without software/hardware issues once configured to run smooth and cool, but that's not the case. Especially on Threadripper nodes I've had plenty of random issues, and on both Intel and AMD machines updating the OS caused me a lot of unnecessary headaches. Than there's RAM issues, on my Mac workstation if my 3D scenes needs more than 64GB I can render safely and without speed penalty up to 100GB thanks to compressed memory, on my Windows nodes as soon as I approach the physical limit of the installed RAM the system becames slow as hell and pretty soon I've App and/or system freeze, no matter how you set the paging file this will still happen.
Multitask on MacOS is far better, look at minute 4'25'' :

it's on Windows 7 but on 10 is about the same(a fun fact, I've made that video to show a PC fanboy that my system was perfectly able to handle large scene just like his dual Xeon super duper Windows workstation, years after that video he admitted than while working on a client nMP he was able to work more smoothly than on his beefy machine).
Than I need to regularly clean disk space since it collects load of temp file and other garbage(including unneeded backup copies of the system). Then you need to update the antivirus regularly, and the list goes on and on. That's all basic tasks that do not need a professional IT, so I do that by myself(and I have all the necessary knowledge to do that). All things I do not need to worry about when using a Mac.
You can still say, "well, that's only your personal experience", but even IBM do save massive amount of money by switching to Mac from Windows using hundreds of thousands machines and I'm sure they know how to manage systems: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ibm+save+money+using+mac

 

[defjam]

I'm surprised here fellas. Listen, I love the 5,1 Mac Pro. It's the best computer I've ever owned. The fact that it's able to stick with the punches since 2009-10 (the 5,1) and to this day being able to rip through games and good frame-rates at 1440p resolutions using 60-100hz monitors is a testament to this truth. It still serves well as a "prosumer" or "enthusiast" machine.

But in no way, shape or form, can a first gen i7 keep up with encoding, rendering, major photo work, or 4k movie editing if your business relies on it. It is foolish to buy a Mac Pro 5,1 at this point for doing real, "time is money" work, that supports you and your family.

Unfortunately Apple leaves many people with no other options. It's either buy the forthcoming new Mac Pro which exceeds their needs and price or buy a 5,1 Mac Pro. Many would love an in between offering (or a lower priced version of the upcoming Mac Pro).

Personally I don't see why people who rely on a workstation level computer for their livelihood would remain with Apple. The 6,1 was released in 2013 and has not seen a single update since then. Apple's neglect of a computer many rely on to make a living tells me all I need to know about their commitment to it. My advice is for those who aren't reliant on Apple specific software to migrate away from the Mac, at least in the workstation space. Despite what others claim Windows is rock solid, reliable, useable alternative without the restriction of being forced to compromise on the type of hardware that suits your needs.

 

[defjam]

All of my systems were setup by a professional IT manager, he use to manage both servers and workstations for university and schools so I'm pretty sure he know very well what he is doing. Since I only use the machines for render tasks I'm expecting them to run without software/hardware issues once configured to run smooth and cool, but that's not the case. Especially on Threadripper nodes I've had plenty of random issues, and on both Intel and AMD machines updating the OS caused me a lot of unnecessary headaches. Than there's RAM issues, on my Mac workstation if my 3D scenes needs more than 64GB I can render safely and without speed penalty up to 100GB thanks to compressed memory, on my Windows nodes as soon as I approach the physical limit of the installed RAM the system becames slow as hell and pretty soon I've App and/or system freeze, no matter how you set the paging file this will still happen.

This right here is an example of why I make statements to the effect you need to get someone qualified to configure / manage your systems. Unless you know exactly what you're doing you should leave the paging file alone. Let Windows manage it. All too often people attempt to optimize Windows and end up causing problems. The solution to insufficient memory is not to rely on memory compression or paging, the solution is to add more memory.

Speaking of memory compression Windows 10, like macOS, has memory compression. This is just another example of why I recommend you hire someone competent to manage your Windows system as it appears your IT guy is unfamiliar Windows has this technology.

Multitask on MacOS is far better, look at minute 4'25'' :

it's on Windows 7 but on 10 is about the same(a fun fact, I've made that video to show a PC fanboy that my system was perfectly able to handle large scene just like his dual Xeon super duper Windows workstation, years after that video he admitted than while working on a client nMP he was able to work more smoothly than on his beefy machine).

I do not see this content in your original post so I am unable to view what I assume is a video. Having said that I am not interested in anything that has to do with Windows 7. Windows 7 was released over 10 years ago. Microsoft is dropping extended support for it January 2020. While it is a solid OS I see no use discussing an OS that has its 10 year support lifecycle ending in two months. That would be like me comparing Windows 10 to Snow Leopard (which was released approximately the same time as Windows 7).

Than I need to regularly clean disk space since it collects load of temp file and other garbage(including unneeded backup copies of the system). Then you need to update the antivirus regularly, and the list goes on and on. That's all basic tasks that do not need a professional IT, so I do that by myself(and I have all the necessary knowledge to do that). All things I do not need to worry about when using a Mac.

You don't have to clean them, you just choose to clean them. Why are you manually updating A/V signatures? Every A/V software I know of auto updates, no use interaction needed? Are you aware Windows 10 includes its own A/V (Windows Defender)? Again it sounds as if you're trying to optimize Windows instead of just leaving it alone. My recommendation: Install Windows, install your applications, and leave it be. Do not try to tweak / optimize it.

You can still say, "well, that's only your personal experience", but even IBM do save massive amount of money by switching to Mac from Windows using hundreds of thousands machines and I'm sure they know how to manage systems: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ibm+save+money+using+mac

This is three years old and the details of the methodology are not provided (at least I did not see them on the couple of random link I checked). Furthermore I could easily counter this by stating there are many companies running Windows without issue. If the Mac is so much better than Windows wouldn't it make sense for every company to make the switch?

Look, I'm not trying to convince you to move off of Macintosh. However your examples clearly demonstrate whoever you have managing your Windows systems doesn't know what they're doing (worse, they think they know what they're doing). Altering the page file settings is one such example. Your response reads like that of complaints lodged against Windows back in the 90's.

If you want your Windows systems to work without issue:

• Buy hardware from a first tier manufacturer. You mentioned ThreadRipper and, to my knowledge, no tier one manufacturer offers ThreadRipper workstations. This is reinforced by the fact you indicate these systems are more problematic than their Intel counterparts.
• If updates are a problem for you then purchase the Enterprise version of Windows (available through tier 1 manufacturers) which allows you to better manage updates.
• Hire someone who knows what they're doing.
• Most importantly: Stop trying to tweak / optimize it. Leave it alone.

EDIT: Apparently the video is showing up in my response so I was able to view it from my response. I'm not really sure what this video is telling me. It appears you made it, is that correct? I see no details of the system configurations. I see not details of the tasks being performed. There's just not anything it to permit anyone to make an informed decision. Just a video created by someone who, it appears, has an agenda against Windows.

 

[sirio76]

Since I'm happily using Windows I can't see why I shoud be against it. I'm just reporting my experience as a user and my experience is as good as yours, no more no less. I've never say you can't work on Windows, I just say it will need more managing by you or an IT and managing cost money and/or time, something I don't need on Mac. You have your experience and I have mine but whe are just two individual, on the other end IBM have precise data made on a large user base(hundreds of thousands user) to back up this facts, that's what I call statistic evidence(two individual opinion doesn't consitute any statistic evidence), but for some reason you refute this data, claiming Windows is as good or better than MacOS no matter what statistics shows you. I never tweack Windows unless I'm forced to do so, believe me I have a hard job and a family and I really have no time to play with settings or BIOS, I do that only if something doesn't work as it should. The video was showing a clear advantage of the Mac in some tasks, it's as simple as that.... despite both system had basically the same performance on paper on a nMP 8core I was able to render maximizing the CPU usage, and in the mean while edit 3D scene, work with PS or other CAD software, on a OC 6core Windows system while rendering I wasn't able to do anyting else(it's the same also on premium brand Windows WS, to solve the issue people disable a few cores while rendering), if you can't see that I don't know what to say.
One of the main advantage of a Windows system according to PC fanboy(strangely ther's plenty here on a Mac forum) is that you can get a much cheaper machine if you assemble and manage it by yourself(especially if you use AMD CPU), now according to your advice(reported below) you suggest to:

• "Buy hardware from a first tier manufacturer. You mentioned ThreadRipper and, to my knowledge, no tier one manufacturer offers ThreadRipper workstations. This is reinforced by the fact you indicate these systems are more problematic than their Intel counterparts.
• If updates are a problem for you then purchase the Enterprise version of Windows (available through tier 1 manufacturers) which allows you to better manage updates.
• Hire someone who knows what they're doing."

So:
1-avoid to assemble a system by yourself and buy from a premium brand(that will cost as much as a Mac negating one of the main advantage), also do not use Threadripper since pricier Intel are more reliable(again negating the price advantage).
2-buy a pricier OS to be able to solve the update issues(something I get for FREE on MacOS, again more money).
3-hire somebody for managing my systems(again spend my money while a Mac performing the same identical tasks needs no managment at all).

I can agree with all of that but you end up proving my point, on the long run a Windows system will cost as much as a Mac and needs more management.