MP 7,1 New Mac Pro or not?

[deconstruct60]

Good finds. Which video cards have tb3 ports? I can find usbc ports, but those are lower bandwidth usb 3.1 rather than tb3.

There is about zero intrinsic need for the XDR or any other TBv3 monitor to be feed physically off an add-in video card. There is an order of magnitude more modern laptops that have TBv3 ports than 3rd party volume of upper half range new video cards.

Same is true for Mac Pro ( and rest of the current Mac Line up). A new Mac Pro 2019 with a 580X (with only HDMI edge connectors ) can drive an XDR monitor (or any of these other ones). The notion that these monitors can't be feed buy a large and diverse, multivendor ecosystem is myopic, 'missing the forest for the trees' exercise.

Apple is about 2-3 years ahead of the curve here with the Vega II cards with TB connectors on them. DisplayPort 2.0 uses a variant of the Thunderbolt protocol and specifies the TBv3 physical ports in the standard ( along with an alternative).

"... DP 2.0 leverages the Thunderbolt™ 3 physical interface (PHY) layer while maintaining the flexibility of DP protocol in order to boost the data bandwidth and promote convergence across industry-leading IO standards. ... "
Technically Type-C is already part of the DPv1.3-4 standard (not the only phys port but it is there). So this is a just a direct evolution.

It doesn't mandate that 'regular' TBv3 be present also, but with future PCI-e v5 ( or even v4 ) there will be a decent bandwidth to prune off for x4 PCIe-v3 without a noticeable difference to the GPU even under relatively heavy data transfer loads.

What is more likely to disappear over time are the somewhat standard rouge Type-C ports see now that are slight variance off of USB-IF and DisplayPort standards (for VR headsets). Those are actually more so the proprietary ones.

First generation DP v2.0 GPU cards perhaps not ( about 2 years) perhaps not, but probably coming if USB 4 rollout gets deeper traction over time.

When DP v2.0 goes mainstream then Type-C with display port will be a standard; spinning it as proprietary or defacto proprietary will be long dead. (although I'm sure they'll still be a least a few flogging that dead horse in this forum in the future). That light at the far end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.

 

[thevault]

The T2 is only the storage controller for the directly attached NAND storage blades. If folks are hypersenstive to repair visits they can simply just place their production OS image and Data on some other internal drive. ( The default storage drive being 256GB makes that an easier option for some; since it is too small. ). Just put a maintenance boot image on the T2 storage in case have to ship in for major service and have a PCI-e slot based or SATA based production drive that can pull before send it in. The production drive would be in same modular category at the RAM DIMMs and display at that point.

If not throwing major workload at the T2 storage, then it is highly unlikely it will fail.
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Those blades are not SSDs. (pragmatically they are just the NAND chips 'half' of a functionally complete SSD. The T2 holds the 'brains' ; SSD controls. those are just 'dumb' cards. ). It is extremely unlikely that any third party is going to come up with replacements for those. Also highly unlikely that Apple is generally going to sell those as loose replacements on the general market. ( some shops that internally qualify as being Apple service providers for that company/location will probably get them but the general form factor doesn't mean commodity in any way. ) .

Those will very likely require a T2 pairing tool in conjunction with the part to get back to a serviceable Mac Pro.

It won't be a new motherboard cost to get a fix but it probably will be an Apple certified service provider to get a fix (plus cost of custom cards that only Apple has. Or limited boneyard market after systems get older and 'boneyard' spare parts market starts to grow. )
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"Out of the box" it probably will not be bootable by PCIe SSD or external with the T2. The standard settings are not to external boot. That's why it is useful to have at least a minimal maintenance macOS instance on the T2. Just for a robust recovery boot context to change the security settings if somehow got set back to "out of the box" on a hard reset.

I'm one of those people that is concerned/sensitive about repair outside of my knowledge and not dependent on Apple service. This has been the direction of Apple and the more they lock purchasers from self repair less will buy high priced MP's which includes me. As long as one can still mirror drives and change components when down I'm good. Still have to see bench scores...

To reiterate, this is crazy how long one has to wait for a computer since June..... It's a 2020 MP.

Oct 26th.

 

[McTaste]

There is about zero intrinsic need for the XDR or any other TBv3 monitor to be feed physically off an add-in video card. There is an order of magnitude more modern laptops that have TBv3 ports than 3rd party volume of upper half range new video cards.

Same is true for Mac Pro ( and rest of the current Mac Line up). A new Mac Pro 2019 with a 580X (with only HDMI edge connectors ) can drive an XDR monitor (or any of these other ones). The notion that these monitors can't be feed buy a large and diverse, multivendor ecosystem is myopic, 'missing the forest for the trees' exercise.

When DP v2.0 goes mainstream then Type-C with display port will be a standard; spinning it as proprietary or defacto proprietary will be long dead. (although I'm sure they'll still be a least a few flogging that dead horse in this forum in the future). That light at the far end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.

It can be defacto proprietary *now* but cease to be that *in the future* when there is more support for it. As it now stands, your answer to wanting a tb3 display is: buy a laptop, or a mac pro?

 

[psingh01]

Unless you are outside of major population centers and don't have access to an Apple Store I'd expect it would be faster to visit the Apple Store to get replacement parts. Unless you plan to have cold spares for those components you'd otherwise have to wait a day for shipping.

This isn’t always the case unfortunately. At least when I first had issues with the MBP keyboard, the Apple store told me they would have to ship it out for repairs that would take 14 days. Since it was a work machine I kept using it for another 6 months until they made an effort to do all the repairs at the stores and stock up on the parts thus reducing the down time.

Maybe ram and storage don’t have those issues, but even then the Mac Pro is probably their lowest seller. They may not dedicate much inventory space for its parts as opposed to say iPhone screens and batteries.

 

[weezerr]

Building a PC for sure. I'll keep using my 5,1 until the new Ryzen and Dune Pro case comes out, which could still be awhile.

Apple has out-priced Prosumers with the Mac Pro 7,1. They simply don't want enthusiasts and people who do work on the side to buy it.

My 3,1, with an educational discount and the 4-core downgrade option costed me 1 month of paychecks with a summer job that paid around $18 an hour while I lived at home in-between classes. I make more than triple that now, and I would have to save up 3 months of paychecks while eating pork and beans to afford it. Since I'm not using it to make money, the price makes absolutely no sense. This is a very stark difference in Apple's pricing strategy for the new Mac Pro vs the prior gens. It has nothing to do with inflation, and everything to do with pricing anyone out that isn't a professional.

btw, Windows 10 is fantastic. Windows 10 is actually faster on a 5,1 than High Sierra is....not to mention gaming is 30% faster (which isn't surprising). I find myself hanging out in Windows 10 more than MacOS on my 5,1.

It's going to be annoying for awhile after the switch because I need to pull out all of my photos out of Apple's ecosystem. I'm also going to miss Messages acting like my phone, when I am away from my Phone which is probably the best thing about MacOS.

Im still rocking my 3,1. It is pretty clear the upgrade path for those of us mortals is a Mac mini with an eGPU. For a $6k base to come with a 580 is just silly.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

This isn’t always the case unfortunately. At least when I first had issues with the MBP keyboard, the Apple store told me they would have to ship it out for repairs that would take 14 days. Since it was a work machine I kept using it for another 6 months until they made an effort to do all the repairs at the stores and stock up on the parts thus reducing the down time.

Maybe ram and storage don’t have those issues, but even then the Mac Pro is probably their lowest seller. They may not dedicate much inventory space for its parts as opposed to say iPhone screens and batteries.

Really hard to say what their inventory policies will be on spares. I'm sure it will vary by location too. Many (most?) stores won't even be getting a demonstration unit for the Mac Pro or XDR display, there could be zero inventory of components or they could stock a handful of sticks of RAM and drives. MacBook Pro is very much like the all in one issue the other poster was concerned about though, Apple doesn't expect people to crack the case open and repair a keyboard (the VAST majority would never consider it) whereas the Mac Pro case is designed to easily access and replacing RAM or drives would literally be a five minute operation by even the most marginally technically capable individual.

I suppose it goes back to my comment about cold spares, if you are really concerned about downtime keep your own inventory on hand.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Its good to hear G5 mentioned.. I still have a Quad and its still fast for most things, not junk by any means.
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While the 2020 or 2019 Mac Pro is nice, for poor Ukrainians like me we can't afford such power. Then again, most Americans can't either. 6000 is a lot of money for this machine, but I am not one of those users where this machine would be good for my needs. I only got a Mac Pro because it was cheap at the time. Now, I finally have a 6-core processor I will order.

I am skipping the trash can.. perhaps in the next 10-20 years I will consider the 2019 mac pro when its 1000.00 or less.

 

[bsbeamer]

Dell is releasing the UP2720Q early next year. TB3 27" monitor with color calibration built-in for $2K. The trend with offering TB3 standard on monitors continues with another manufacturer.

Dell built a color calibrator into its new monitor

Dell's newest monitor, unveiled as part of the Adobe Max event today, has been designed with creators in mind. The UP2720Q is the world's first 27-inch 4K monitor with a built-in colorimeter -- a light-sensitive device that measures the intensity and concentration of color. It offers 100 percent...

www.engadget.com

Dell 27-inch, 4K UP2720Q brings a built-in colorimeter to UltraSharp line

Plus, it's Calman Ready, so you're not stuck with DUCCS.

www.cnet.com

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Dell is releasing the UP2720Q early next year. TB3 27" monitor with color calibration built-in for $2K. The trend with offering TB3 standard on monitors continues with another manufacturer.

Dell built a color calibrator into its new monitor

Dell's newest monitor, unveiled as part of the Adobe Max event today, has been designed with creators in mind. The UP2720Q is the world's first 27-inch 4K monitor with a built-in colorimeter -- a light-sensitive device that measures the intensity and concentration of color. It offers 100 percent...

www.engadget.com

Dell 27-inch, 4K UP2720Q brings a built-in colorimeter to UltraSharp line

Plus, it's Calman Ready, so you're not stuck with DUCCS.

www.cnet.com

Lower nits and resolution than the LG Ultrafine 5K with a gimmick built in colorimeter. It's nice to see another Thunderbolt monitor but it seems too little too late out of Dell. I think your point was just that the TB3 trend continues which I agree is a good thing and will only pick up steam with USB4.

 

[bsbeamer]

I'm not getting into picking apart a pre-market monitor or evaluating if it is a good choice for purchase or not. Dell is at least the third fairly major monitor "manufacturer" to offer TB3 monitors.

Regardless of if it's a good or bad thing, TB3 is a standard and all the major players are embracing it.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Dell makes some pretty good monitors.

 

[fendersrule]

I'm surprised that Apple's new monitor is stuck at 60Hz. Pretty weaksauce for 2019.

There's been a nice flood of IPS monitors that have 144Hz that are 1440p and all the way up to 4k/5k I believe. I'm considering going curved.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I'm surprised that Apple's new monitor is stuck at 60Hz. Pretty weaksauce for 2019.

There's been a nice flood of IPS monitors that have 144Hz that are 1440p and all the way up to 4k/5k I believe. I'm considering going curved.

no one is buying an XDR to play Fortnite, it’s priority is color accuracy and resolution above all else. For that matter I don’t think you can find anyone with a 5K 16x9 monitor at 144. It’s only the “5K” monitors that lack vertical resolution (ultra wide) and even then may not be 144. 5K is a LOT of pixels to push.

edit to add: 6k is even more.

 

[goMac]

I'm surprised that Apple's new monitor is stuck at 60Hz. Pretty weaksauce for 2019.

There's been a nice flood of IPS monitors that have 144Hz that are 1440p and all the way up to 4k/5k I believe. I'm considering going curved.

I don't think Thunderbolt 3 has enough bandwidth for much higher than 60hz and 6k.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I don't think Thunderbolt 3 has enough bandwidth for much higher than 60hz and 6k.

Right, 4K HDR @ 144 would be around 35Gb/s and 5K adds 50% more pixels you'd already be 50% over what TB3 can do. XDR would be over double TB3 even without overhead. At 60 it's just a little more bandwidth than 4k at 144.

 

[SecuritySteve]

I'm surprised that Apple's new monitor is stuck at 60Hz. Pretty weaksauce for 2019.

There's been a nice flood of IPS monitors that have 144Hz that are 1440p and all the way up to 4k/5k I believe. I'm considering going curved.

The highest 144Hz monitor you can get is 4k, 27". Such a monitor comes with a steep cost, and is pushing the limits of the bandwidth of thunderbolt 3. Apple's 6k monitor at 60Hz is best in class for what it does, it just is not a gaming monitor.

Acer Predator X27 bmiiphzx 27" 4K IPS UHD 144Hz - Newegg.com

Buy Acer Predator X27 bmiiphzx 27" 4K IPS UHD 3840 x 2160 NVIDIA G-SYNC Ultimate, 1,000nits (Peak), 144Hz (Overclock), 10Bit Colors, Quantum Dot, DCI-P3, DisplayPort 1.4, Light Sensor with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

 

[fendersrule]

144hz is not just for gaming. Even moving a mouse around on a 144hz screen is pretty joyful. It just makes everything smoother--scrolling and browsing.

Something higher than 60Hz is what Apple could have shot for, but I totally get the bandwidth thing.

 

[deconstruct60]

144hz is not just for gaming. Even moving a mouse around on a 144hz screen is pretty joyful. It just makes everything smoother--scrolling and browsing.

The iPad Pro Pro Motion gets most of that with only using 120Hz. 144Hz is overkill. Especially a full 6K 16:9 resolution. It also turns that off in contexts also.

144Hz also doesn't map to other native classic cinema speeds either. ( 120 -> 60 , 30 , 24 with even multiples )

Something higher than 60Hz is what Apple could have shot for, but I totally get the bandwidth thing.

It isn't a general monitor. It is competing in the reference monitor sector. Not much sense in shooting for speeds that nobody is using to context major content distribution at all. No "Fortnight" steams aren't major. The refresh speeds for the XDR Tech specs

"...

• 47.95Hz
• 48.00Hz
• 50.00Hz
• 59.94Hz
• 60.00Hz

..."

Pro Display XDR - Technical Specifications

See the tech specs for the new Pro Display XDR including resolution, brightness, contrast, color, connectivity, and compatibility.

www.apple.com

there are under 60Hz marks that are important in that market. Not over 60. It is not a "normal usage" monitor.

 

[goMac]

The other problem with 6k 144hz is: What on earth are you going to render at 6k 144hz? The GPUs on the new Mac Pro are nice, but they’re not _that_ nice.

If we’re lucky things will be able to keep up with 6k 60hz. But there is no way the Mac Pro is rendering your game or whatever at 6k 144hz. It’s not powerful enough, and I’m not sure there is much out there that would be.

 

[Coyote2006]

If you can afford a MacPro, you can also afford a specialized gaming monitor. You get them for $600 and can use them along with a 6K to show/read emails during etc. during work.

 

[tevion5]

The 3,1 is slow as snails today. It burps and farts in iMovie with 1080p clips. With a GTX 1060 it can't even hit 60 FPS in even the mildest games in WINDOWS! It doesn't seem to like playing 1080p clips on Youtube, either.

Find it hard to believe a 3,1 struggles with 1080p Youtube?

My G5 Quad can handle 720p Youtube no problem, yet the x3 more powerful 3,1 can't do 1080p?

 

[Macbookprodude]

Funny, my G5 Quad does 1080p nicely.

 

[BJonson]

I built a mini itx system with the AMD 3900x. It blows away my 9900k. I am running it on air cooler in a small form factor case with a GTX 2080ti and 2 nvme 2tb drives and this thing is amazing. All this for under $3k and that is only becuase the 2080ti is so expensive.

The problem with the new mac pro is that its already outdated. AMD has crushed intel this year and intel has been crippled with this hyperthreading problem. The mac pro will be overpriced for old bad intel cpu tech before it hits the shelves.

Honestly, I can't see how anybody can purchase mac hardware anymore with their failing macbook pro keyboards and the overpriced desktops. If you really need OS X just pick up or build a pc and slap OS X on it.

When threadripper 64 core chip launches in the coming months, intel will be forgotten. If Apple is smart, and we know they are not, they will launch an AMD Mac Pro.

 

[thevault]

launch an AMD Mac Pro

Apple can't even launch an actual MP7.1 computer in a reasonable amount of time 😂

Not Fanboy but I will eventually purchase the MP7.1 next year when it's released just after receiving my Dune case

 

[Zdigital2015]

I built a mini itx system with the AMD 3900x. It blows away my 9900k. I am running it on air cooler in a small form factor case with a GTX 2080ti and 2 nvme 2tb drives and this thing is amazing. All this for under $3k and that is only becuase the 2080ti is so expensive.

The problem with the new mac pro is that its already outdated. AMD has crushed intel this year and intel has been crippled with this hyperthreading problem. The mac pro will be overpriced for old bad intel cpu tech before it hits the shelves.

Honestly, I can't see how anybody can purchase mac hardware anymore with their failing macbook pro keyboards and the overpriced desktops. If you really need OS X just pick up or build a pc and slap OS X on it.

When threadripper 64 core chip launches in the coming months, intel will be forgotten. If Apple is smart, and we know they are not, they will launch an AMD Mac Pro.

How many Professionals want to be the beta group for Apple’s first AMD-based computer? Answer...between 18-22% for a computer that is 6-8% of Apple’s annual Mac sales. The engineering effort required at this point does not pass the Finance Department or the Pucker Test Department, much less the C Suite.