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jerryk

macrumors 604
Nov 3, 2011
7,421
4,207
SF Bay Area
The Surface Studio is like one of those fashion show dresses. Stunning and interesting, but what about practical relevance? So its a computer for designers and content editors and I can imagine that they way its set up is great for those tasks. Until we see that there is no SSD option. Are those professionals supposed to work from a way slower HDD only? Well, ok, I guess they could work from their enterprise-level SAN storage, or at least using their fast external RAID array. Oh wait a moment, they can't even connect to it properly. USB 3.0? Not even USB 3.1?

SAN via USB? I don't think so. Network device. Gigabit ethernet to client. Fiber to database servers which are gigabit ethernet to clients. Same with Raid array in a NAS.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,495
19,632
SAN via USB? I don't think so. Network device. Gigabit ethernet to client. Fiber to database servers which are gigabit ethernet to clients. Same with Raid array in a NAS.

What if you need performance? My point is, including thunderbolt or at least USB 3.1 would make that computer much more adaptable. Btw, USB 3 is faster then Ethernet.
 

Mufasa804

macrumors regular
Mar 6, 2009
232
78
It's hard to explain why, but 2016 really weakened my "just buy Apple" resolve when it comes down to tech purchases.

Buying from Apple was always my "don't think about it" default.

It was just too much with the crappy battery life, weird and loud keyboard, thin obsession over things we actually care about which makes tools useful, and software that is losing features which used to support professional workflows (PDFs et al.) so it can be compatible with a phone.

And the dongles. Expensive. Took away smart innovations like cable management and MagSafe.

And yes, MacOS is superior to Windows. And icloud is a mixed bag, some better, most worst. But the first party apps are lagging. There just isn't much innovation from Apple in apps and cloud. Lots of catch-up. And the apps have tap-heavy interfaces and bugs galore. And Windows is getting better—fast.

All of this is compounded with competition heating up. Yes, the future is iPads and iPhones, but Apple thinks it's getting there tomorrow, and they are forgetting the creative class on non-iOS devices will be around even longer. These are the influencers. It's why Microsoft is going after to them.

I'm not saying I'm leaving tomorrow. I just bought a MBP and LG 5K display. I love the values of the company—privacy, worker rights, environment responsibility, etc.

But I feel like the tables are beginning to turn...just like the mid-90s when it was clear there were better alternatives.

After my Mac of almost 8 years decided to have logic board issues, it came time to replace it with a "modern" desktop machine which for me ended up being a hackintosh. The current iMac is awesome, but I need more power out of it and cannot wait until March/April to spend $2,500 on a new machine. The Mac Pro is....let's just not go there, meanwhile the Mac Mini is lonely, underpowered and forgotten.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,268
39,778
After my Mac of almost 8 years decided to have logic board issues, it came time to replace it with a "modern" desktop machine which for me ended up being a hackintosh. The current iMac is awesome, but I need more power out of it and cannot wait until March/April to spend $2,500 on a new machine. The Mac Pro is....let's just not go there, meanwhile the Mac Mini is lonely, underpowered and forgotten.

Nice - What's your build like (specs/case,etc)?
I'm a long time Hackintosher - Have one right now (no monitor attached as it died yesterday...grrr)
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,533
7,229
Serbia
It was just too much with the crappy battery life, weird and loud keyboard, thin obsession over things we actually care about which makes tools useful, and software that is losing features which used to support professional workflows (PDFs et al.) so it can be compatible with a phone.

Well, first of all, never buy something without thinking - Apple or not :)

As for your issues, you're in luck, because most of these things are, well, just not true. The battery life is, more or less, the same as it has been on previous MBPs, the keyboard is a delight to use, the thinness is far from obsessive (in fact, it's not that much thinner than before) and offers practical mobility gains. As for software, some features gained, some lost - it's an endless circle.

Finally, dongles are not expensive, for most things you can get cables and cable management is better, actually. I love how I can plug the cable at both sides and remove it from the charger completely when I pack. I know it sounds strange, but it's actually easier to pack now that you can unplug it from the charger as well.

But I feel like the tables are beginning to turn...just like the mid-90s when it was clear there were better alternatives.

There were alternatives for years, whether they are better or not is a matter of personal taste and needs. Currently, I see no real alternatives to the MBP, but it may be different for you.
 

ramljm

macrumors newbie
Jan 18, 2017
2
1
Well, first of all, never buy something without thinking - Apple or not :)

As for your issues, you're in luck, because most of these things are, well, just not true. The battery life is, more or less, the same as it has been on previous MBPs, the keyboard is a delight to use, the thinness is far from obsessive (in fact, it's not that much thinner than before) and offers practical mobility gains. As for software, some features gained, some lost - it's an endless circle.

Finally, dongles are not expensive, for most things you can get cables and cable management is better, actually. I love how I can plug the cable at both sides and remove it from the charger completely when I pack. I know it sounds strange, but it's actually easier to pack now that you can unplug it from the charger as well.



There were alternatives for years, whether they are better or not is a matter of personal taste and needs. Currently, I see no real alternatives to the MBP, but it may be different for you.
 

ramljm

macrumors newbie
Jan 18, 2017
2
1
Sorry to say it isn't true the battery is significantly less than the 10hrs adv. I returned the first one I purchased prior to holidays, because I was getting a max 3-4 hrs of use with just word processing and no internet on. Unfortunately just spoke to apple through Chat support and was instructed to return it to the Apple Store. The prior 2016 MBP returned after speaking to Apple support and the tech alluded to hardware issues, by saying many other people had been contacting them regarding hardware issues with new MBP related to same issue. I tried all the fixes since I guess I need to admit Im an Apple fanboy after this being my 10th MBP. I purchased another new MBP because I had hoped the battery issue was fixed. However, this one seems worse even after downloading the newest beta version of Sierra that supposedly fixed the issue for Consumer Reports and thus allowed them to go from being the first MBP they didn't recommend due to battery issues to recommended status. I also cleared the cache and reset the pRam same issue. Almost dead after less than 4hrs use two times in a row. Even with the newest beta the results r the same.It gets even worse if another program is running; is, indexing. The chat Apple tech asked me to tell him if indexing was taking place and the only thing on was safari per activity monitor. I really like this being the first time you get to pick a color for MBP the space grey is really cool. Touch bar is growing on me. It charges faster than any MBP Ive ever owned. That is another plus;however it is going back and will wait to hear it has been "fixed fixed" for consumers not just Consumer Reports testers. Disappointed apple!! We have spent well many thousands of $s on Apple products, even have a G4 that still works and an original iPod that still kicken the beats. Korny I know, but really Apple please fix this exciting new product that apparently isn't yet ready for prime time. Hope that helps others thinking of buying this intriguing new MBP. My advice wait till a fix is out.
 
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agaskew

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
416
253
Keep reading conflicting arguments about the battery life on this forum.
On one hand there are posts stating its more or less as good as before, or that problems are due to 3rd party software.

Then there are real life experience posts where people are returning MBPs on the advice from Apple themselves, because of battery problems.

Either Apple support people are giving wrong advice to customers and advising returns in error, thereby costing their employer a lot of money along the way, or there really is a problem with the battery.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Keep reading conflicting arguments about the battery life on this forum.
Perhaps the issue isn't consistent across the board and some people have great battery life.

Either Apple support people are giving wrong advice to customers
I would say that Apple doesn't know the issues causing the problems and that they're not saying anything to avoid returns.

If I were to fathom a guess I'd say that older models of the MBP perhaps masked the bugs that existed because it had a larger battery but now with a smaller battery those small bugs are a bit more pronounced.
 

agaskew

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
416
253
Perhaps the issue isn't consistent across the board and some people have great battery life.


I would say that Apple doesn't know the issues causing the problems and that they're not saying anything to avoid returns.

If I were to fathom a guess I'd say that older models of the MBP perhaps masked the bugs that existed because it had a larger battery but now with a smaller battery those small bugs are a bit more pronounced.

There are many, many reports of people moving from older models to the 2016 model, and noticing a distinct drop in battery life in the 2016 model. To me this is more than something being a bit more pronounced due to the slightly smaller battery. Perhaps there are millions of satisfied 2016 model customers out there, just keeping quiet.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
There are many, many reports of people moving from older models to the 2016 model, and noticing a distinct drop in battery life in the 2016 model
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I do see a lot of people posting here that they have great battery life. The battery is smaller then the prior model and so its not surprising to see some of these issues.
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,533
7,229
Serbia
Keep reading conflicting arguments about the battery life on this forum.
On one hand there are posts stating its more or less as good as before, or that problems are due to 3rd party software.

Then there are real life experience posts where people are returning MBPs on the advice from Apple themselves, because of battery problems.

Either Apple support people are giving wrong advice to customers and advising returns in error, thereby costing their employer a lot of money along the way, or there really is a problem with the battery.


So, you're claiming Apple is advising people to return their MBPs. Seriously. Can you tell me the source for this information, please. I read on several places that Apple is sticking to their battery claims, so I'm curious where they are flat out saying to people: there is a problem with the battery, return your MBPs.

What Apple may be saying to certain people is that if you're trully getting such short battery life, perhaps there is an issue with your hardware, so bring it in for diagnostics.

And I love how when people are saying they have problems with the battery these are "real life experience posts". And what is mine? The fact that I didn't plug in my MBP yesterday during the whole work day - this is, what - theoretical?
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,495
19,632
There are many, many reports of people moving from older models to the 2016 model, and noticing a distinct drop in battery life in the 2016 model. To me this is more than something being a bit more pronounced due to the slightly smaller battery. Perhaps there are millions of satisfied 2016 model customers out there, just keeping quiet.

There are also many people who report good battery life. Moreover, all big-name third-party reviews show that the battery life has improved in the 2016 models (even though its just about simple web-based tests). There can be no doubt that a substantial number of users do experience issues with the battery, but we can't really quantify how widespread these issues are.
 

zarathu

macrumors 6502a
May 14, 2003
650
361
Apple is changing. Their whole company is changing to fit a new marketplace. But there is an easy solution. Buy a refurbished older unit that you like.
 
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MrX8503

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,293
1,615
I just picked up the 2016 MBP and it makes my rMBP feel dated, which is surprising. The build quality is excellent and no other laptop comes close in my opinion.

I don't mind having USB-C only, because I've always dreamt of plugging in one cable at my desk for everything.
 

agaskew

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
416
253
So, you're claiming Apple is advising people to return their MBPs. Seriously. Can you tell me the source for this information, please. I read on several places that Apple is sticking to their battery claims, so I'm curious where they are flat out saying to people: there is a problem with the battery, return your MBPs.

What Apple may be saying to certain people is that if you're trully getting such short battery life, perhaps there is an issue with your hardware, so bring it in for diagnostics.

And I love how when people are saying they have problems with the battery these are "real life experience posts". And what is mine? The fact that I didn't plug in my MBP yesterday during the whole work day - this is, what - theoretical?

I'm not claiming anything at all. I'm referrring to the post directly abovethe one you just quoted. That's post number 34 of this thread. Seriously. Here it is again:


Sorry to say it isn't true the battery is significantly less than the 10hrs adv. I returned the first one I purchased prior to holidays, because I was getting a max 3-4 hrs of use with just word processing and no internet on. Unfortunately just spoke to apple through Chat support and was instructed to return it to the Apple Store. The prior 2016 MBP returned after speaking to Apple support and the tech alluded to hardware issues, by saying many other people had been contacting them regarding hardware issues with new MBP related to same issue. I tried all the fixes since I guess I need to admit Im an Apple fanboy after this being my 10th MBP. I purchased another new MBP because I had hoped the battery issue was fixed. However, this one seems worse even after downloading the newest beta version of Sierra that supposedly fixed the issue for Consumer Reports and thus allowed them to go from being the first MBP they didn't recommend due to battery issues to recommended status. I also cleared the cache and reset the pRam same issue. Almost dead after less than 4hrs use two times in a row. Even with the newest beta the results r the same.It gets even worse if another program is running; is, indexing. The chat Apple tech asked me to tell him if indexing was taking place and the only thing on was safari per activity monitor. I really like this being the first time you get to pick a color for MBP the space grey is really cool. Touch bar is growing on me. It charges faster than any MBP Ive ever owned. That is another plus;however it is going back and will wait to hear it has been "fixed fixed" for consumers not just Consumer Reports testers. Disappointed apple!! We have spent well many thousands of $s on Apple products, even have a G4 that still works and an original iPod that still kicken the beats. Korny I know, but really Apple please fix this exciting new product that apparently isn't yet ready for prime time. Hope that helps others thinking of buying this intriguing new MBP. My advice wait till a fix is out.
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,533
7,229
Serbia
I'm not claiming anything at all. I'm referrring to the post directly abovethe one you just quoted. That's post number 34 of this thread. Seriously. Here it is again:

That post just says that Apple asked him to return his MBP, probably to see if it's faulty. Not that Apple is telling people to return theirs or that this is proof that something is wrong with the new MBPs in general.

I get around 8-9 hours when the dGPU is not on, so I just don't see how he could get just 3-4 unless he has a faulty unit, which is what Apple is trying to determine.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,268
39,778
I get around 8-9 hours when the dGPU is not on, so I just don't see how he could get just 3-4 unless he has a faulty unit, which is what Apple is trying to determine.

I didn't even think about that - There a 3rd party app that allows you to keep the dGPU off when you know you're not going to need it and don't even want it to think about kicking in?
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,533
7,229
Serbia
I didn't even think about that - There a 3rd party app that allows you to keep the dGPU off when you know you're not going to need it and don't even want it to think about kicking in?

There was gfxCardStatus that used to do exactly that but I don't know if it works with the latest MBPs.
 

agaskew

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
416
253
That post just says that Apple asked him to return his MBP, probably to see if it's faulty. Not that Apple is telling people to return theirs or that this is proof that something is wrong with the new MBPs in general.

I get around 8-9 hours when the dGPU is not on, so I just don't see how he could get just 3-4 unless he has a faulty unit, which is what Apple is trying to determine.

You asked me for the source of the information that Apple is advising people to return their MBPs, which I have provided.
That person's post says a great deal more than your one line summary.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,268
39,778
Related to "What Apple is telling people" - I found it pretty amazing at the Apple Store when I was extensively testing the MBP 15" for about an hour, that the Store employee who kept checking on me was suggesting that if I had *any* hesitations about the Touch Bar to "get the 13" non-touch bar" model..

I was a bit taken aback as I made it pretty clear that I only wanted a 15" and really wanted TouchID also. They must have an edict from management to try and reduce returns at all costs..

The whole company & store experience really seems to have the feel of Bean Counter Tim. It's not a great feeling. A newly worked on and released thing like the Touch Bar should be "so great" that store employees would never be recommending not getting it, in my view anyhow...
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,268
39,778
Could not agree more. Microsoft are doing some great things right now, Amazon too.

Maybe in "thought process" this might be true, but the Surface hardware is still way behind in fit and finish in my view.

I'm not a fanboy at all either...it's just my instant reaction to even the latest/greatest MS hardware is continually "hmmm...this is what everyone in the media says is so great?"

..and Windows - ugh. Not for my daily driver/work use, no thank you.
Use it on my HTPC (w10) and it's still just lipstick on the old pig mostly (I think)
 
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