New MP on May 18

[deconstruct60]

Other vendors don't seem to be having trouble with supplying processors launched 2 months ago.

Other vendors who are going to ship at same volume? There have be a couple of reports here where at HP / Dell you could order, but they would ship later as got parts. Other vendors (e.g,. HP , Dell) still have older 3500/5500 models for sale. Apple's modus operandi is typically to dump the old and bring in the new totally across a very limited set of models. (either that or do "hand me downs" for higher to lower models. )


Similar to contributing reason to slow roll the Core i mobile roll out. When MacBookPros came either got a new Core i processor or didn't. There was no overlapping old/new offerings. Other vendors could do an earlier drop of a single Core i model while the other 5-10 models in their line ups still had older stuff. [ The Nvidia 320m's delayed release contributed too to the lower end of the lineup without the core i processors.]

 

[Deepshade]

Who knows if it really is someone who "knows" if anyone even does, but I'm tending to side with this idea at this point anyway. There is simply no news, no rumors, no hints and unfortunately no new mac Pro anytime soon I'm afraid. It's a big letdown. The longer this goes on, the less of a value based life cycle the hardware will end up having. It's like buying a 2010 car at full sticker price after the 2011's have been out for several months.

I think Macrumors needs to rethink its Buyer's Guide. With virtually all products on updates soon - don't buy unless you have to (or similar) its more of a buyer's guess than guide. We've been waiting for an MP update since last year and the guide is proving useless.

 

[ValSalva]

I just heard the Mac Pro will be released at WWDC. This is from a source who knows!

^see how easy that was? You have absolutely zero evidence you aren't being trolled.

Given how long the Mac Pro is overdue I hope your source doesn't mean WWDC 2011

 

[Quash]

I expect the problem is that only the w3680 is out now.
Which is too expensive to replace the bottom end mac pro.

So until cheaper 3600 series Xeons (f.i. 6 x 2.66) are available i don't expect new mac pro's. Unless they are just updating the high end or increase the bottom price to around 3k $.

 

[ziwi]

How about this?

Maybe - just maybe, they are waiting until WWDC to release the 'workstation' Mac Pro along with the 'non-workstation' Mac Pro - this would make sense so instead of pricing out folks who want a tower with only one processor to provide the multi-processor Pro along side of the 'new' box that runs with non Xeon chips - the mythical mid tower or x-mac or whatever you want to call it.

The logic is that it is becoming clearer and clearer that the Intel relationship is proving too constraining (Laptop graphics as an example - higher and higher Xeon chip prices as another). Apple can not continually raise prices and expect to satisfy the customer. The iMac's that rival the Pro's in power are not getting it done - they have screen and heat issues and serve only those who need a newer screen - plus I never understood how that approach was green - not that they will ever drop the all in one form factor.

So why not release the mid mac before the 2010 Mac Pro? to alleviate any confusion on the future of the Mac Pro. They need to release them at the same time to be not have folks in the - this is all I really needed camp and if I knew I wouldn't have Mac Pro'd camp.

Anyway - just my thoughts on why things are taking forever to come out here. Just my anticipation on the "You won't be disappointed" comment.

 

[xgman]

Given how long the Mac Pro is overdue I hope your source doesn't mean WWDC 2011

I think that is sadly closer to the truth. The only thing keeping me in a Mac Pro is OSX. I would not suffer through these long update cycles otherwise and I'm not at all interested in a hackintosh, but at some point, I may seriously have to rethink the possibility of abandoning OSX for my heavy lifting. The Mac Pro should be updating twice a year as far as I'm concerned to keep pace with PC hardware updates.

 

[telequest]

I expect the problem is that only the w3680 is out now.
Which is too expensive to replace the bottom end mac pro.

So until cheaper 3600 series Xeons (f.i. 6 x 2.66) are available i don't expect new mac pro's. Unless they are just updating the high end or increase the bottom price to around 3k $.

I'm trying to figure if there's a rule of thumb on Mac Pro pricing based on the cost of the processor(s). Does it work out to be about $2K plus the cost of the processor? If so, that would work out to your estimate of $3K for a 6-core 3.33 GHz (i.e. the w3680 .. which lists for $999 in 1K lots)

Of course this assumes Apple's minimal configuration on RAM, drives, video card.

So ... is $2K plus processor cost a good general estimate, or is there a big variation among models with different processor configurations? A method to the pricing, or madness?

 

[Umbongo]

I'm trying to figure if there's a rule of thumb on Mac Pro pricing based on the cost of the processor(s). Does it work out to be about $2K plus the cost of the processor? If so, that would work out to your estimate of $3K for a 6-core 3.33 GHz (i.e. the w3680 .. which lists for $999 in 1K lots)

Of course this assumes Apple's minimal configuration on RAM, drives, video card.

So ... is $2K plus processor cost a good general estimate, or is there a big variation among models with different processor configurations? A method to the pricing, or madness?

They use the model of processor upgrades costing around the retail price you'd pay for them with the more expensive models having more of a difference, same one they've used since 06. The 3.33GHz quad they currently offer is also a $999 processor, and that system retails for $3,799.

 

[Umbongo]

How about this?

Maybe - just maybe, they are waiting until WWDC to release the 'workstation' Mac Pro along with the 'non-workstation' Mac Pro - this would make sense so instead of pricing out folks who want a tower with only one processor to provide the multi-processor Pro along side of the 'new' box that runs with non Xeon chips - the mythical mid tower or x-mac or whatever you want to call it.

The logic is that it is becoming clearer and clearer that the Intel relationship is proving too constraining (Laptop graphics as an example - higher and higher Xeon chip prices as another). Apple can not continually raise prices and expect to satisfy the customer. The iMac's that rival the Pro's in power are not getting it done - they have screen and heat issues and serve only those who need a newer screen - plus I never understood how that approach was green - not that they will ever drop the all in one form factor.

So why not release the mid mac before the 2010 Mac Pro? to alleviate any confusion on the future of the Mac Pro. They need to release them at the same time to be not have folks in the - this is all I really needed camp and if I knew I wouldn't have Mac Pro'd camp.

Anyway - just my thoughts on why things are taking forever to come out here. Just my anticipation on the "You won't be disappointed" comment.

There isn't a reason to split the line in two like that and it doesn't seem they want any lines competing with another. They wouldn't need to create a separate Mac anyway, just lower the price on them to be more in line with other Workstations.

 

[Aldaris]

I really think they are going to release a 4/6/8/12 core lineup. Possibly update graphics with nVidia/Ati, possible port reconfigurations (not likely).

My bet would be that the low end 4 core model remains largely unchanged but drop the price to 1999.00, have the hex, at 2499, octo at 2999, and the dual hex at 3499.00, and then have various custom processors at varying speeds.

But even if they were to announce it and let us pre-order, I'd be happy... I just want some info in this arena...

 

[Icaras]

I really think they are going to release a 4/6/8/12 core lineup. Possibly update graphics with nVidia/Ati, possible port reconfigurations (not likely).

My bet would be that the low end 4 core model remains largely unchanged but drop the price to 1999.00, have the hex, at 2499, octo at 2999, and the dual hex at 3499.00, and then have various custom processors at varying speeds.

But even if they were to announce it and let us pre-order, I'd be happy... I just want some info in this arena...

The subject of falling prices on the current quad is always brought up and something I'm closely looking forward to as I'd be a customer for such a machine.

But I think it's also been well argued that having a sub $2000 Mac Pro would encroach on the iMac's pricing. No Mac in Apple's lineup ever conflicts with each other so I do not think that the MP would go so low. My guess is it will most likely be $2299 - $2399, assuming they do keep the quad of course.

 

[Umbongo]

I really think they are going to release a 4/6/8/12 core lineup. Possibly update graphics with nVidia/Ati, possible port reconfigurations (not likely).

My bet would be that the low end 4 core model remains largely unchanged but drop the price to 1999.00, have the hex, at 2499, octo at 2999, and the dual hex at 3499.00, and then have various custom processors at varying speeds.

But even if they were to announce it and let us pre-order, I'd be happy... I just want some info in this arena...

That would be more acceptable for most people I think, I mean it's still a lot of Apple tax as you can get a 2.8GHz quad T3500 from dell for $1,000 now. Apple do weird things though if stuff doesn't fit the image they seem to want. I'm sort of expecting 2.8 x4, 3.2 x4, 3.33 x6, 2.4 x8, 2.66 x12 and 2.93 x12, because those are what have replaced the currently used processors, but will Apple really have such a line up of mixed speeds? Capping the memory speeds again at 1066MHz would be insulting, but will they offer two memory types? Or will they just use processors that support 1333MHz. That would limit them to 3.33 x6 and 2.66, 2.8, 2.93 and 3.33 x12 which wouldn't be so bad at decent price points. They may even got back to dual socket systems only now the iMac is quad core.

We have seen that Apple don't like a lot of options, which with the way the currently Xeon lines are specced, means it isn't going to be a great offering.

 

[Icaras]

That would be more acceptable for most people I think, I mean it's still a lot of Apple tax as you can get a 2.8GHz quad T3500 from dell for $1,000 now. Apple do weird things though if stuff doesn't fit the image they seem to want. I'm sort of expecting 2.8 x4, 3.2 x4, 3.33 x6, 2.4 x8, 2.66 x12 and 2.93 x12, because those are what have replaced the currently used processors, but will Apple really have such a line up of mixed speeds? Capping the memory speeds again at 1066MHz would be insulting, but will they offer two memory types? Or will they just use processors that support 1333MHz. That would limit them to 3.33 x6 and 2.66, 2.8, 2.93 and 3.33 x12 which wouldn't be so bad at decent price points. They may even got back to dual socket systems only now the iMac is quad core.

We have seen that Apple don't like a lot of options, which with the way the currently Xeon lines are specced, means it isn't going to be a great offering.

Basing off the current information on pricing of the chips, how much more do you think a CTO option upgrade from 2.8 to 3.2 quad would be from Apple (factoring any Apple tax variables of course)?

 

[Umbongo]

Basing off the current information on pricing of the chips, how much more do you think a CTO option upgrade from 2.8 to 3.2 quad would be from Apple (factoring any Apple tax variables of course)?

$500 I guess, like now and $1200 for a 3.33GHz 6 core. Any difference from the current upgrade costs would be a slap in the face.

 

[Quash]

I really think they are going to release a 4/6/8/12 core lineup. Possibly update graphics with nVidia/Ati, possible port reconfigurations (not likely).

My bet would be that the low end 4 core model remains largely unchanged but drop the price to 1999.00, have the hex, at 2499, octo at 2999, and the dual hex at 3499.00, and then have various custom processors at varying speeds.

But even if they were to announce it and let us pre-order, I'd be happy... I just want some info in this arena...

i think the 8 core is not gonna be around for the next round. Xeons don't fall in price. If they release at WWDC this makes most sense to me:

Xeon W3565 3.2 quad(562$) for 2499$ (which makes the MP faster then any imac, no contest)
Xeon W3680 3.33 hex(999$) for 2899$

Dual cpu (12 core setups)
2 x Xeon X5650 2.66 hex(999$) for 3499$
2 x Xeon X5680 3.33 hex(1600$) for 4499$

Give or take a few 100$ on the Mac prices

Less likely but they could also do:
Xeon W3520 2.66 quad (current) for around 1999$, which would not compete with an imac. That has BT/Speakers/iSight a faster standard GPU and oh yeah a 27inch screen for the same price.

Or an
2x Xeon E5640 quad (total 8) for around 3k $
(but honestly which real pro customer who needs more then 6 cores would not buy a 12 core.
6 * 3.33 would beat 8 * 2.66 for about 99% of all use cases anyway)

Any way you look at it.
If they want to release now they are gonna take a profit cut (compared to the relatively expensive 2009 models).
They can though! The 2008 mac pro 8 core 2.8ghz costed 2799$ of which almost 1600$ was spend on the 2 quad core cpu's.

 

[Aldaris]

From 436 on...

All good points, Although I agree Apple likes to have a simple line up they still have offered slightly faster processor speeds as custom options, which I believe they still will.

A quad Mac Pro at 1999 would be a sweet spot, that would really sell in my opinion, yeah the iMacs are awesome, but for the ones that want a $250/500/1500 graphics option would be a nice place to start. Also there are the limitations with storage, and I/O being an issue for some.

I could also be dreaming a bit.

With the memory, I think entry will be 1066 MHz, and beyond that 1333 MHz.
If you think back the early G5's had a split pipeline with low end featuring PCI-X, and high end PCIe, so it really is anyones guess. Although logically, if Apple wanted to move some serious product and not neglect/ignore the pro market, this 4/6/8/12 line up is a good bridge for the short term, even if they were to lower the price a few hundred on the 4/8 and take pre-orders for the 6/12.

Either way, I'm waiting for the pics from a Vietnamese elevator while-unboxing them.

 

[Icaras]

$500 I guess, like now and $1200 for a 3.33GHz 6 core. Any difference from the current upgrade costs would be a slap in the face.

Sounds reasonable, though its currently $400 to go to 2.93. Yea, I hope they don't go over this.

 

[iMacprobook]

Well i doubt if it means anything but i cant find a mac pro on the store on apple website anymore, uk and usa, keeps coming up with oops, page not found....

Tell me its only due to an update, and not to worry, all will be ok in the morning when the new machines are released..




Oh, its ok now, no change, put my debit card away, off to bed..

 

[telequest]

Magical Wednesdays

Well i doubt if it means anything but i cant find a mac pro on the store on apple website anymore, uk and usa, keeps coming up with oops, page not found....

Tell me its only due to an update, and not to worry, all will be ok in the morning when the new machines are released..




Oh, its ok now, no change, put my debit card away, off to bed..

We're all Tuesday-focused since that's the normal day of the week for new product releases. But the iPad was announced on a Wednesday (1/27), so one can always hope for another radical magical break with the past.

 

[2contagious]

I think it will just be the 6 core and the 12 core options.. I can't see Apple reusing old hardware to keep the price low. With the Core2Duo in the 2010 13" MacBook Pro that's a different story, we are talking about Mac Pros here: as someone has already said, if they would release the old models as "cheaper options" it would cut into the iMac area and not seem like a very attractive option compared to the iMac. Apple likes to keep their line-up simple, so I don't think they will have more than 2 (maximum 3) different (non-cto) versions.

 

[hugodrax]

Its may 26 now

 

[Umbongo]

I think it will just be the 6 core and the 12 core options.. I can't see Apple reusing old hardware to keep the price low. With the Core2Duo in the 2010 13" MacBook Pro that's a different story, we are talking about Mac Pros here: as someone has already said, if they would release the old models as "cheaper options" it would cut into the iMac area and not seem like a very attractive option compared to the iMac. Apple likes to keep their line-up simple, so I don't think they will have more than 2 (maximum 3) different (non-cto) versions.

Quad core processors are not old hardware, it's the same technology and performance at the same clock speed. I do agree that it is possible they won't use them though. 3.33GHz x6, 2.66GHz x12, 2.93GHz x12 and 3.33GHz x12 would be a nice neat line up. They could put out a $2,499 3.33GHz 6 core system and make a profit. Even offer a downgrade to 2.8GHz for only a few hundred.

 

[Ravich]

Will the low end mac pros have more memory slots do you think?

 

[Quash]

I think it will just be the 6 core and the 12 core options.. I can't see Apple reusing old hardware to keep the price low. With the Core2Duo in the 2010 13" MacBook Pro that's a different story, we are talking about Mac Pros here: as someone has already said, if they would release the old models as "cheaper options" it would cut into the iMac area and not seem like a very attractive option compared to the iMac. Apple likes to keep their line-up simple, so I don't think they will have more than 2 (maximum 3) different (non-cto) versions.

I think they can't offer the w3680 for 2499$.
So if they want to keep the entry price at 2499$ then they have the option of offering an older tech quad core or really take a more then 500$ profit cut. If not they can offer the w3680 for like 2799$ and have a similar profit but that would make it the most expensive entry mac pro ever.

Quad core processors are not old hardware, it's the same technology and performance at the same clock speed. I do agree that it is possible they won't use them though. 3.33GHz x6, 2.66GHz x12, 2.93GHz x12 and 3.33GHz x12 would be a nice neat line up. They could put out a $2,499 3.33GHz 6 core system and make a profit. Even offer a downgrade to 2.8GHz for only a few hundred.

There is no cheaper 2.8x6 option available. The only route would be to take the 3.2 quad (also released more recently released, still 45nm though) which is the exact same price as the 2.93 quad now in the mac pro. It is 400+ $ cheaper then the w3680, that's enough of a difference to offer that option.

Would love to see the 3.33x6 for 2.499 that would be perfect for me

EDIT: typos

 

[Umbongo]

I think they can't offer the w3680 for 2499$.
So if they want to keep the entry price at 2499$ then they have the option of offering an older tech quad core or really take a more then 500$ profit cut. If not they can offer the w3680 for like 2799$ and have a similar profit but that would make it the most expensive entry mac pro ever.



There is no cheaper 2.8x6 option available. The only route would be to take the 3.2 quad (also released more recently released, still 45nm though) which is the exact same price as the 2.93 quad now in the mac pro. It is 400+ $ cheaper then the w3680, that's enough of a difference to offer that option.

Would love to see the 3.33x6 for 2.499 that would be perfect for me

EDIT: typos

I meant offer a downgrade to a W3530 quad core, was just a thought really. I'd be surprised if their main offering is a high end processor which are produced in the smallest number due to the way they create processors. For that $2,499 price point they seem to want to be great value they'd have to offer that or go back to dual socket and offer two 2.66GHz quad cores though.