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jayducharme

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2006
4,643
6,370
The thick of it
Sadly, we've had more stability issues with Tiger than Vista within our organization. While the problems in vista seem to be more driver availability and some incompatabilities with older software, with Tiger, we've had all kinds of weird issues with finder content not refreshing, printing not working at all (to any printer) until reboot..etc. Just weird things that seem silly in this day and age.

That is weird. Where I work, there are three Mac labs. All the rest of the computers are PCs with XP. The Macs are the only machines that function well from day to day. All the other PCs have their users cursing. But our I.T. has the same fears you expressed, so Mac use is limited. I ditched the PC in my office long ago for an iMac and I'm extremely happy with its performance and stability.

As far as not having Office, there are plenty of alternatives out there from Apple's well-received suite to reliable open source options.
 

Avatar74

macrumors 68000
Feb 5, 2007
1,611
404
Not quite. The Pepsi Challenge is more of a balanced approach. The key measure of a good soft drink is its taste. The Pepsi challenge compares both products and then emphasizes Pepsi's stronger appeal to taste-testers. ...I just believe that marketing is more effective if (at a minimum) you spend an equal amount of time emphasizing your product's strengths as you do emphasizing your competitor's weaknesses. Focus on selling a good alternative.

To each his own, but when it comes to expensive electronics, I'm all about the functionality/feature set. I think Apple's got enough creativity and quality in their products, they don't have to spend all their time dogging the competition.

Except that the Pepsi Challenge was actually a hoax. The trick was that booths had filled Pepsi in both the Pepsi AND Coke bottles, and then whichever one you selected as the better tasting one of the two, they'd grab the bottle marked "Pepsi" to show that's the one you chose.

The big mistake that Coca-Cola made was they had misinterpreted the resulting data. Sales of Pepsi did not go up sharply because of anything to do with the formula... It had to do with the PepsiCo's aggressive boost in advertising expenditures. Coca-Cola therefore misattributed the cause and then attempted to launch New Coke with a sweetened formula to compete with Pepsi. This proved to be a colossal failure because in the end there was no real evidence that the Pepsi formula was actually preferred by customers over what is now Coca-Cola Classic.

The additional mistake made by Coca-Cola is that studies show that whenever a brand leader compares themselves to the subordinate competition, the subordinate competition gains more sales than they do... out of sheer product exposure.

Therefore it is regarded today as marketing sense to follow the strategy of independent differentiation where the product is marketed on its own attributes and never compared to other brands. 2nd or 3rd place brands do better, according to the same studies, when they do compare themselves to superior brands to gain some credibility by sheer association and comparison to show what they have to offer that is similar to the leading brand.

In Apple's case, they have nothing to lose to compare themselves to Vista because they are not the leading brand in terms of overall volume. Doubly well for them is that they are the leading brand in terms of customer perception of quality... and so by chiding Vista they are exposing its weaknesses, not theirs, and doing so without giving Microsoft any measurable increase in advertising exposure that they don't already have.

Apple can't even fail by trying to make OS X more like Vista, because they have such little market share as it is. Windows, however, could fail by trying to emulate the style and functionality of OS X, which they did with Vista... and it exposes their mediocrity as a developer of user interfaces.
 

Macmanus

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2007
94
0
Being anti- is always easier than being pro-.

If you're a Third World politician without a single idea, talk anti-american : people will follow you. Not everybody, but a lot.

People from Apple got the trick.

Looks like I'm going to stick with Vista, which has worked normally since the beginning, even if it's an upgrade.
 

jonharris200

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2006
394
7
London, UK
And the biggest round of applause goes to MacRumors for successfully using Apple's ad to advertise their own website for free! :D :cool: :)

An Adweek article mentions MacRumors and this thread:
The video, which Apple fan site MacRumors.com uploaded, has received over 70,000 views since it was uploaded on late Tuesday, making it the 9th most viewed clip of the day.
 

Scottgfx

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2002
316
8
Fort Myers, FL
Looks like I'm going to stick with Vista, which has worked normally since the beginning, even if it's an upgrade.

I wish I had the same experience. I bought a new Vista based laptop to run a PC application related to my work. I thought this would be the better way to go as I didn't want to accidently mess up my MacBook by trying to put BootCamp on it. After many hours of trying to get the program to run under the Vista laptop, I learned that the application didn't support Vista. (There was no information to this effect). I then went out and bought a retail copy of XP and tried to install it on the laptop. That didn't work, and the salespeople later told me that they had no success with other's request for the same.

I then, as a last resort, downloaded BootCamp, installed Windows XP on my MacBook and my software ran fine.

I then gave the Vista laptop to my brother because I couldn't find anyone even willing to pay $750 for what was a $1000 machine.
 

Scenicroadways

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2004
104
0
I think the ads are a good marketing move. Right now is when people are struggling with going from XP to vista and might want to "give up". Why not target these people and tout Mac? It's really the perfect time to bait them over.
 

Squozen

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2003
142
154
What the **** are you talking about?

And by the way, where is the support for network printers in OS X? Oh yeah, it's not supported.

I guess the network printers that I print to every day without needing to install additional drivers with my Mac are imaginary.
 

Macmanus

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2007
94
0
I wish I had the same experience. I bought a new Vista based laptop to run a PC application related to my work. I thought this would be the better way to go as I didn't want to accidently mess up my MacBook by trying to put BootCamp on it. After many hours of trying to get the program to run under the Vista laptop, I learned that the application didn't support Vista. (There was no information to this effect). I then went out and bought a retail copy of XP and tried to install it on the laptop. That didn't work, and the salespeople later told me that they had no success with other's request for the same.

I then, as a last resort, downloaded BootCamp, installed Windows XP on my MacBook and my software ran fine.

I then gave the Vista laptop to my brother because I couldn't find anyone even willing to pay $750 for what was a $1000 machine.

I too had several softs that couldn't run under Vista, but that's normal to me, you always have to wait. I don't consider this being a problem related to Vista.

BTW, talking about program compatibility, Mac is very, very far from being an easy switch for a PC user... i'm talking essentially about DVD play/write stuff, such as AnyDVD, Nero, DVDFab... but there's a concret problem for PC switchers used to certain programs...
 

czachorski

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2007
871
1
I too had several softs that couldn't run under Vista, but that's normal to me, you always have to wait. I don't consider this being a problem related to Vista.

BTW, talking about program compatibility, Mac is very, very far from being an easy switch for a PC user... i'm talking essentially about DVD play/write stuff, such as AnyDVD, Nero, DVDFab... but there's a concret problem for PC switchers used to certain programs...

Specific programs...yes. General applications....no. All those DVD functions exist in various packages for Mac.
 

greysave

macrumors newbie
Nov 24, 2007
3
0
Sadly, we've had more stability issues with Tiger than Vista within our organization. While the problems in vista seem to be more driver availability and some incompatabilities with older software, with Tiger, we've had all kinds of weird issues with finder content not refreshing, printing not working at all (to any printer) until reboot..etc. Just weird things that seem silly in this day and age.

We even had two machines side by side looking at the computers on the network and one would see machine called "X" lets say and the other would not show it in the list. No matter what we did it wouldnt show. Even upon reboot it failed to show. Very weird. Both were running 10.4.x at the time. It was a 2K3 server that failed to show but other 2k3 servers we had still were there.

Anyway from my experience in our environment where we have 100+ XP stations, 10-15 Vista stations and 20 OSX stations (10.4) I can honestly say that Apple is grasping at straws with the ads. You may not like the UI but all the talk about stability and viruses and all that being a major issue is a farse. In the 4 years of being at the company, I have yet to see 1 comprimised computer (Virus, Trojan or Malware). All the ads are doing is annoying the people who are computer literate enough to use both platforms and the ones that fine them believable are the inexperienced and gullable. Thats my take on things. Even speaking to the hard core designers who have used both platforms, they find the ads unprofessional.

If you've ever seen a really small cocky guy being all loud mouth and pushy even towards the big guy... Well you know where I might be going with this. I believe in speak softly and carry a big stick. The ads IMO show apple as the 'little' guy who makes a lot of noise. One day he's gonna get hit. LOL.

Really, with MS office being such an important software for a lot of people, all MS would have to do is stop development of that product on the apple platform and it would do major damage. Not sure if anyone else feels this way but I think its retarded to poke the sleeping bull with a big stick....

Ok, I seriously have to disagree with mostly everything you just said. I am a network admin for a well known cancer research publishing company having both Macs and Windows. We are predominatly a windows shop, but we also have 10 macs. Vista is utter garbage, no one in the industry is honestly going to it yet as it is definately not ready. Active directory tools for 2003 don't install on it, exchange server 2003 systems manager won't install on it as a well as a host of other enterprise microsoft apps. I find this amazing because this is all ms stuff, which you would think they would have planned for it but apparantly they haven't. I do find that I have some issues with the Mac's and the printers but that is basically it. If you are having trouble connecting your macs to windows 2k3 boxes you may want to turn off digitially signing all trafic in the local security policy ediitor.

Vista is not ready for enterprise level integration yet, you can have some success if you use exchange 2k7 but this still doesn't solve the AD integration problems. Also if you do goto exchange 2k7 it is well known to have a memory leak. I only have around 160 mailboxes and find that after a week my memory usage goes from 2gb to 10gb. I have to reboot the exchange server once a week.

The moral of my story is, to say that Vista is more reliable then Tiger is not accurate. Why are most businesses holding off on vista? The reason is quite simply that it is the most unreliable piece of garbage ever. Furthermore Vista with their admin(root) account, desktop search database, gadget, and other things not only borrow from OS X, but also unix in general.
 

KurtangleTN

macrumors 6502a
Apr 2, 2007
523
0
I wish Apple would smarten up with Mac ads, yes they are funny but they just simply don't get the point across, and just piss off PC users that would consider switching. I was one of them, really I knew nothing about Macs, but I was very turned off by the ads.

You know they wouldn't be so bad if they actually focused on a particular Mac feature, and the contrast on every one.

You could have the PC talk about how he was screamed and yelled at for the users kid deleting a file, and the Mac mentions how he has time machine and it automatically backs up, so they wouldn't have that problem, the PC could say "Well that's boring, how else do you get them so kids don't use the computer" or something, I'm not a writer but you get the point.

Far too often it's just Apple bashing Windows.

Really they also need a more iPhone like ads for the Mac. Actually show features of the Mac in someway, when is the last Apple ad that actually focused on parts of the OS?
 

Sesshi

macrumors G3
Jun 3, 2006
8,113
1
One Nation Under Gordon
Ok, I seriously have to disagree with mostly everything you just said. I am a network admin for a well known cancer research publishing company having both Macs and Windows. We are predominatly a windows shop, but we also have 10 macs. Vista is utter garbage, no one in the industry is honestly going to it yet as it is definately not ready. Active directory tools for 2003 don't install on it, exchange server 2003 systems manager won't install on it as a well as a host of other enterprise microsoft apps. I find this amazing because this is all ms stuff, which you would think they would have planned for it but apparantly they haven't. I do find that I have some issues with the Mac's and the printers but that is basically it. If you are having trouble connecting your macs to windows 2k3 boxes you may want to turn off digitially signing all trafic in the local security policy ediitor.

Vista is not ready for enterprise level integration yet, you can have some success if you use exchange 2k7 but this still doesn't solve the AD integration problems. Also if you do goto exchange 2k7 it is well known to have a memory leak. I only have around 160 mailboxes and find that after a week my memory usage goes from 2gb to 10gb. I have to reboot the exchange server once a week.

The moral of my story is, to say that Vista is more reliable then Tiger is not accurate. Why are most businesses holding off on vista? The reason is quite simply that it is the most unreliable piece of garbage ever. Furthermore Vista with their admin(root) account, desktop search database, gadget, and other things not only borrow from OS X, but also unix in general.

Integration and reliability are two different things. I fully agree regarding the laziness of many application writers and even Microsoft themselves in getting Vista completely compatible with many apps.

It's also true to say that the situation six months ago was radically different, and a lot more half-baked than it is now. I would postulate that many of the Vista-bashers are going in misinformation spread by the blogomoronsphere (which has a tendency to feed on itself) and also according to old experiences. For me, Vista is now suitable for deploying across all of my computers, with a couple of minor exceptions.

It's also true to say that in my experience, Tiger running on a Pro (or in fact, several Pros) is less reliable, in both hardware and software terms, than Vista Business / Ultimate running on a Precision 690. We have recently converted a batch of dual-5160 Precisions 690's to successfully run OSX for our core software suite, and are in the process of tossing out the Pros. Next step: Migrating from OS X in favour of Linux for both the core front-end and back-end applications - but that will take a lot longer, perhaps 2-3 years.
 

czachorski

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2007
871
1
I wish Apple would smarten up with Mac ads, yes they are funny but they just simply don't get the point across, and just piss off PC users that would consider switching. I was one of them, really I knew nothing about Macs, but I was very turned off by the ads.

But it looks like from your signature, that you bought one anyways. ;) Funny when an anecdotal point contradicts itself. :D
 

Macmanus

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2007
94
0
His post didn't seem all that harsh or un-light to me? :confused:

I too have found MTR, handbrake and Toast to cover all my DVD needs.

Once and for all, a bible truth : you CAN'T just watch DVDs on your mac that are from a different region, you HAVE TO rip them, or FLASH your optical drive.

PCs can do just that.

For details, read the link above.
 

czachorski

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2007
871
1
Once and for all, a bible truth : you CAN'T just watch DVDs on your mac that are from a different region, you HAVE TO rip them, or FLASH your optical drive.

PCs can do just that.

For details, read the link above.

Until now, your posts were not clear. Especially since the link you posted has a title of "Region Free DVD Viewing on Macs and Windows PCs". I actually thought at first your link was contradicting yourself, until you explained it above. So it seems that it can be done on a Mac, but not just directly in one step -> insert disc and play. Got it. It requires 2 steps and about 8 GB of HD space with MTR. I can see how that would be a pain.

For people who travel a lot to the other regions, region codes suck!
 

coffey7

macrumors 6502a
Feb 12, 2006
516
0
I am currently using Vista and everything works great for me. Apple should just focus on their own stuff. I use Linux, Windows and OSX and enjoy using them all. :)

What if Microsoft had ads that talked about how 90% of software works with windows but not on a Mac. My friend works at a college in a science dept and he had to put windows on his mac book pro so he could use all of his work programs. Its better not to be cocky until you won the war.
 

czachorski

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2007
871
1
I am currently using Vista and everything works great for me. Apple should just focus on their own stuff. I use Linux, Windows and OSX and enjoy using them all. :)

What if Microsoft had ads that talked about how 90% of software works with windows but not on a Mac. My friend works at a college in a science dept and he had to put windows on his mac book pro so he could use all of his work programs. Its better not to be cocky until you won the war.

If MS did such an ad, it would be fine, since its true. I too have Windows in parallels at work to be able to run our accounting and CRM software.

MS would be unwise to run such an ad, as described earlier in this thread, because it would be poor marketing to compare themselves to the smaller competitor and give them more credibility. However, the smaller guy has a lot to gain and little to lose with the same comparisons. This rationale made sense to me, and I like the ads too.
 

omemedia

macrumors newbie
Nov 26, 2007
2
0
Sweden
Great ad!!!

I love these Mac vs. PC ads. I use both a Mac (a G4 at the moment, but I'm planning on getting new one) and a PC in my work. I run WinXP on my PC, but have no intention of ever upgrading to Vista!
 

JeffHendr

macrumors member
Nov 10, 2002
40
0
Independence, MO
Therefore it is regarded today as marketing sense to follow the strategy of independent differentiation where the product is marketed on its own attributes and never compared to other brands. 2nd or 3rd place brands do better, according to the same studies, when they do compare themselves to superior brands to gain some credibility by sheer association and comparison to show what they have to offer that is similar to the leading brand.

In Apple's case, they have nothing to lose to compare themselves to Vista because they are not the leading brand in terms of overall volume. Doubly well for them is that they are the leading brand in terms of customer perception of quality... and so by chiding Vista they are exposing its weaknesses, not theirs, and doing so without giving Microsoft any measurable increase in advertising exposure that they don't already have.

I'm simply stating that Apple is making an ineffective/incomplete comparison. The recent ads focus almost exclusively on the PC, with very little information (if any) on the Mac. It's even worse when their critique of the PC is a tad bit too far over the top to be taken very seriously.

I think the desired message is "PC = bad. Mac = good." The message that I get from the commercials however, is more of a "PC = bad. By the way, the Mac exists." Come on. Surely Apple can come up with a way to seriously present at least one or two things that a Mac can do well.
 
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