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New right click on trackpad in Sequoia drives me nuts. Am I the only one?

this is a MASSIVE bug that is making it impossible for me to play games. i often play without a mouse when i'm reclining, so I need to right click + hold (with my thumb), then move the cursor with my index finger to move the camera. but now it's impossible.

if there's anything I can do to upvote this bug report somewhere, or file another report with them, let me know.

thanks for all y'alls help in keeping on top of this.
 
1nfinity0nhigh said:
this is a MASSIVE bug that is making it impossible for me to play games. i often play without a mouse when i'm reclining, so I need to right click + hold (with my thumb), then move the cursor with my index finger to move the camera. but now it's impossible.

if there's anything I can do to upvote this bug report somewhere, or file another report with them, let me know.

thanks for all y'alls help in keeping on top of this.
Click to expand...
I'd say submit a report using the Feedback Assistant app, sharing your experience, specifically how this bug is preventing you from playing games. Then, if you'd like, post the Feedback ID as per chrmyr's request.
 
TehBrian said:
I'd say submit a report using the Feedback Assistant app, sharing your experience, specifically how this bug is preventing you from playing games. Then, if you'd like, post the Feedback ID as per chrmyr's request.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I didn't know that application even existed. I submitted a report. FB16151510
 
Unfortunately I did not receive any updates on my support case as of now. Not a good sign.
 
we need to keep pressing... Sequoia is utterly unusable if i can't right click + drag.

had to downgrade to Sonoma, which was a total pain in the ass (had to wipe computer + reinstall + restore files from backup)
 
@All
I contacted Apple today again to get an update on this. Short story: There is no update. A bug report has been filed and that's it. Priority is up to Apple. Additionally, Apple is super silent about what priority is.

What we have done is that we filed the report again.


My urge to everyone now is:
  1. Call your local macOS Apple Support via phone.
  2. optional (but will speed things up): try to get to a lead engineer / lead supporter
  3. Describe them the problem. Reproduce the issue with them.
  4. Tell them there are plenty users reporting this. Show them this forum thread for example.
  5. Ask them to file a bug report (try to stick to this. This MUST be reported as a BUG REPORT to Cupertino. It HAS to be escalated out of the Apple Support Team back to the mothership).
  6. Ask the Apple Supporter to give you communication about the feedback by Cupertino to the Bug report after they received response.
 
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that's a good strategy. thank you for outlining that.

everyone, if we want this fixed we HAVE to call Apple and do this.
 
chrmyr wrote:
"I contacted Apple today again to get an update on this. Short story: There is no update. A bug report has been filed and that's it. Priority is up to Apple. Additionally, Apple is super silent about what priority is."

Once again, I offer this thought:
This may have been an INTENTIONAL change by Apple's software designers.

Although, I have no idea as to WHY they would do so.

Perhaps to bring something closer to the way iOS works?
(I have NO real experience with iOS, I've never owned an iPhone or iPad)
 
Fishrrman said:
chrmyr wrote:
"I contacted Apple today again to get an update on this. Short story: There is no update. A bug report has been filed and that's it. Priority is up to Apple. Additionally, Apple is super silent about what priority is."

Once again, I offer this thought:
This may have been an INTENTIONAL change by Apple's software designers.

Although, I have no idea as to WHY they would do so.

Perhaps to bring something closer to the way iOS works?
(I have NO real experience with iOS, I've never owned an iPhone or iPad)
Click to expand...
I just want to come back to this. As to my knowledge, there was one major change for the pointer behavior which is in Accessibility "Ignore Trackpad if a mouse is connected" (see Accessbility > Cursor / Pointer).

"Intentional" for me means in this context a change with effects that are considered to be the purpose and aimed for.
I do not think it is intentional and there is one simple explanation for this:
The behavior is still as it was in 14.0 when changing secondary-click to trigger when "two-finger click" (this is also the only known workaround at the moment).

Either the change was intentional and this specific (just named two-finger click) secondary-click behavior was forgotten to be changed or it is a bug. However, after comparing it with an older external Trackpad (A1339), the behavior still works under macOS 15.2 when using the external (older) trackpad: no bug with the older trackpad. Someone mentioned trying it out with the newer external trackpad and the same issue occurs.

So we need to drill down what the issue really is. My list as of now would be

  1. macOS General Cursor behavior
  2. macOS Secondary-Click .plist Settings
  3. macOS .kext Driver for AppleMultiTouchTrackpad
  4. Interference with the third-party app receiving the gesture
Of course we are never sure as we do not have enough insights.

4. Interference with the third party receiving the gesture
After trying different apps that rely on 3D-controlling/visual controlling with an XYZ-perspective they all behave in the same (false) way. Even apps that are 20 years old and have not changed how their inputs work see this issue. So the issue exists outside the third-party app

2. macOS Secondary-Click .plist Settings
Multiple people here have tried various setting combinations, even settings that cannot be done via the UI in the settings app. None helped to solve the issue. Just changing the secondary-click trigger to "Two-finger click" solves it. Of course it could a combination that was not tried, but my guess is: the chances are pretty low that this is solvable using the settings how the secondary-click works for lower-right / lower-left corner. The .plist settings is therefore also not likely to be the root here.

1. macOS General Cursor behavior
This is what you are refering to @Fishrrman if I understand you correctly (please also see Nr. 3, too). As mentioned before, it could be as we cannot be certain 100% but from my perspective unlikely since this occurs only for secondary-click lower-left and lower-right corner. From my opinion, there is no logical connection why this behavior should only be observable for lower-left and lower-right corner and was not changed for two-finger click aswell. There could be an intentional change somewhere else in the system for the Cursor behavior so that this issue is a side effect. But this would likely mean that external devices like magic mouse or external trackpads would reproduce the issue aswell. This is not the case.

3. macOS .kext Driver for AppleMultiTouchTrackpad
When comparing the .kext Driver we can see actual changes in the version number. Could be that there is always a new build when a new macOS is released but after talking to the Apple Support they are also certain that some changes happened. The changes here were certainly done on purpose. The main point I want to close my list with is that I am sure that this change was done on purpose/intentional but not with this effect in mind.



My current perspective is also that everyone on Apple's side is considering this as a bug. However, no resource was assigned or the bug is not resolved yet.

@everyone: Therefore, please see my post from yesterday to contact Apple Support. They likely do their priority based on impact. That means, the more impact (scale) an issue has, the more likely it is resolved quickly. This means multiple reports need to fly in from all across the globe on a larger scale.
 
is there no way we could copy the trackpad drivers from Sonoma, go into recovery mode or something, and just insert them into Sequoia?
 
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What drives me nuts is when people need to use my Mac at work to show me workarounds for tech issues and they try to right click using the bottom right.

Like bro, just put a second finger on the touchpad and WOW OMG you did it. Well done.

First thing I turn off when using Windows trackpads, can't imaging Apple will be in a rush to "fix" this.
 
There's 3 things to do to use trackpad in humanly way.
1. Activate "Tap to click"
2. Set "Secondary Click -> Tap or click with two fingers"
3. "Accessibility -> Pointer control -> Trackpad options -> Use trackpad for dragging/Style -> Without drag lock"

Your mileage may vary as someone might really need to use other settings (especially in Accessibility sections), but this is the best way to avoid masochistic experience in using trackpad-equipped devices :)
 
i LOATHE this company with every drop of blood in me. i cannot even communicate the frustration and anger that apple has caused me. i HATE apple. this word is not nearly strong enough, but i don't know any better ones. i hope this company burns to the ground. i would piss on their ashes. i hate computers. i hate the internet. i hate software my god i ****ing hate software. i hate american capitalism. may the lord send a plague of more severe annoyance and frustration to every person responsible. may all their bank accounts be drained by north korean hackers. may i find another line of work carving wood or something, and never have to do a vent search again.

i updated to 15.3 today because i'm regarded, and now i'm getting input lag on my keyboard and my $150 magic trackpad (which no longer works wired, because why should it?). the apple support community forums are a crime against humanity. "this thread has been closed after 30 days of no activity" **** YOU! it's not even run by apple, it's run by idiot volunteers who suggest doing an SMC reset on an M1. and somehow windows is actually worse!!!

i think this is my backhanded way of thanking the people in and behind this forum, because it is truly the best resource for solutions and frustration. i wish it didn't have to exist, but since it does, i am grateful.

until like 2009, the internet was much more pure. the same thing has happened to operating systems and hardware. we're in hell and there's no way out.
 
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This has been a little bit silent in terms of problem solving, so I want to guide us back on the track.

My Apple Support Ticket is still open but they are struggling to handle it because the issue only shows in third-party 3D apps (games, render software etc) which is not native to apple. They are limited to a specific scope of support. That is completely understandable but an unfortunate situation. Most of those bugs will be deflected then.

Therefore, I invested some time to reproduce this with Standard Apple Apps only. And I was successful.



Manual on reproducing the issue with standard macOS Apps.

Reproduce in Preview:
  1. Set your secondary-click behavior to "Lower right corner" in Trackpad System Settings
  2. Open a .stl file of your choice in the "Preview"-App (STL-Files are 3D-files that you can look at in preview and move around) (hint: you can download any free .stl file from a 3D-printer platform to do this here)
  3. Preview opens with the file and the file is shown.
  4. Hover the mouse over the object without any clicking yet.
  5. The cursor turns to a hand as long as inside preview: now press at the VERY edge of the lower right corner of the trackpad and try to move the object in preview
  6. The object will only move after you surpassed a specific threshold area on the trackpad. The very lower right corner is simply not able to drag the object.

Expected Behavior:
The rightclick on a hand-cursor (drag-cursor) should never be able to drag an object. The object in Preview should not move.

Observed Behvior:
The object moves even though the rightclick is still holding after surpassing a specific area on the trackpad.

Interpretation:
This provides an important finding. macOS shifts from a right-click to a left-click while still holding an initiated right-click. Or in simpler terms: the right-click only works on a small specific area on the trackpad and breaks after surpassing it even though it was initiated.





Can anyone here please share insights if you can reproduce this, too?
 
Last edited:
If issue only does show up in 3rd party apps then it is complicated because it is not readily obvious is it a problem in app or in interoperability with OS.

It is almost like a problem with Microsoft 365 apps where basic shortcut keys for Copy and Paste (Cmd+C and Cmd+V) intermittently stop working...
 
nmt1900 said:
There's 3 things to do to use trackpad in humanly way.
1. Activate "Tap to click"
2. Set "Secondary Click -> Tap or click with two fingers"
3. "Accessibility -> Pointer control -> Trackpad options -> Use trackpad for dragging/Style -> Without drag lock"

Your mileage may vary as someone might really need to use other settings (especially in Accessibility sections), but this is the best way to avoid masochistic experience in using trackpad-equipped devices :)
Click to expand...
I like right clicking to right click. It worked how I like before.
 
chrmyr said:
This has been a little bit silent in terms of problem solving, so I want to guide us back on the track.

My Apple Support Ticket is still open but they are struggling to handle it because the issue only shows in third-party 3D apps (games, render software etc) which is not native to apple. They are limited to a specific scope of support. That is completely understandable but an unfortunate situation. Most of those bugs will be deflected then.

Therefore, I invested some time to reproduce this with Standard Apple Apps only. And I was successful.



Manual on reproducing the issue with standard macOS Apps.

Reproduce in Preview:
  1. Set your secondary-click behavior to "Lower right corner" in Trackpad System Settings
  2. Open a .stl file of your choice in the "Preview"-App (STL-Files are 3D-files that you can look at in preview and move around) (hint: you can download any free .stl file from a 3D-printer platform to do this here)
  3. Preview opens with the file and the file is shown.
  4. Hover the mouse over the object without any clicking yet.
  5. The cursor turns to a hand as long as inside preview: now press at the VERY edge of the lower right corner of the trackpad and try to move the object in preview
  6. The object will only move after you surpassed a specific threshold area on the trackpad. The very lower right corner is simply not able to drag the object.

Expected Behavior:
The rightclick on a hand-cursor (drag-cursor) should never be able to drag an object. The object in Preview should not move.

Observed Behvior:
The object moves even though the rightclick is still holding after surpassing a specific area on the trackpad.

Interpretation:
This provides an important finding. macOS shifts from a right-click to a left-click while still holding an initiated right-click. Or in simpler terms: the right-click only works on a small specific area on the trackpad and breaks after surpassing it even though it was initiated.





Can anyone here please share insights if you can reproduce this, too?
Click to expand...
I can reproduce this. This matches my findings: right click can "transform" into left click. Not only can a held right click morph into left click upon leaving a particular zone, but I've also found that spamming right click can show as left clicks. It's actually pretty crazy how terrible the right click handling became.
 
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I captured a video that provides evidence that right clicks are being misregistered as left clicks. This exemplifies the issues I've been having with the trackpad on Sequoia. Sorry that the video is so dark; I was trying to avoid screen glare. Let me know if you'd like me to re-shoot an example with better lighting around my fingers.

 
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TehBrian said:
I captured a video that provides evidence that right clicks are being misregistered as left clicks. This exemplifies the issues I've been having with the trackpad on Sequoia. Sorry that the video is so dark; I was trying to avoid screen glare. Let me know if you'd like me to re-shoot an example with better lighting around my fingers.

Click to expand...
amazing video. thank you for making this and for illustrating the problem so well.
 
i see some suggestions to work around this. i used to do this click and drag thing but eventually developed hand issues. i use 2 finger tap for right click and 3 finger drag for dragging and selecting. way way better
 
WE DON'T WANT WORKAROUNDS. Workarounds are useless for gaming. Also, I don't want to have to retrain my muscle memory of right-clicking (which I've been doing the same way for 20 years) because Apple fcked up. We want our trackpads to work correctly so we can game on the computers we paid to game on.
 
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