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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
I was actually kind of surprised there wasn't some "return of Boot Camp" announcement this year after Microsoft cleared up the licensing. Still waiting to see if there is a "Rosetta for Windows" announcement just like they released Rosetta for Linux.

There is no technical reason for Microsoft do not support native Windows for ARMs with Apple Silicon Mac from day one. I'd like to know the real reasoning for not doing it.

I've heard this isn't going to happen. The PCIe controller is missing some key features (I think around memory) to even get GPUs working at all at a hardware level.

Some time ago one of the developers, I'm not sure if was marcan or lina, talked about some issues with memory mapping/DMA, but then later on twitter marcan wrote differently - tried to find the post but seems he deleted the account recently.

Let's see what will happen.
 

retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
3,180
3,482
Previous post is still wrong, Asahi Linux boots natively (from the native Apple boot picker).

Apple Silicon allows native booting of other operational systems, there is no technical reason that impedes Microsoft to provide full support of Windows for ARMs to Macs with Apple Silicon besides a purely business decision.

If a small Linux distribution with probably a handful of full time developers can do it funded by donations alone, why Microsoft can't?
Does the Linux distro have to be issued as a .ipsw file or is there no limitation on bootable media with these machines?
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
Some time ago one of the developers, I'm not sure if was marcan or lina, talked about some issues with memory mapping/DMA, but then later on twitter marcan wrote differently - tried to find the post but seems he deleted the account recently.

Let's see what will happen.

If anyone can hack around hardware limits, it's those folks. But if there are hardware issues there might end up being performance issues.
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
Btw, I bet that Asahi Linux will provide full third party PCIe GPU support (obviously for the GPUs that already have Linux ARM drivers) with the new Mac Pro in the week that the first developer gets one.

WOW! That would be amazingly useful!
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
If anyone can hack around hardware limits, it's those folks. But if there are hardware issues there might end up being performance issues.

I bet that if wasn't possible, marcan wouldn't buy one :p but yes, if memory mapping is problematic, there will be some performance penalties to workaround it.

 
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MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,895
2,390
Portland, Ore.
What benefits are there to running Linux on Apple Silicon vs Intel? Also there is a huge reduction in available auxiliary power in the 8,1. Only 300 watts. So it could accommodate only 1 high-end GPU.

Also, I was thinking would it be possible to train an AI to write drivers? Maybe it could make drivers for RDNA 3 based on the RDNA 2 drivers?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
What benefits are there to running Linux on Apple Silicon vs Intel?

You can say that the same benefits as macOS have…

Also, I was thinking would it be possible to train an AI to write drivers? Maybe it could make drivers for RDNA 3 based on the RDNA 2 drivers?

Even if was remotely possible with current ML tech, you still need Apple to sign the drivers.
 
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goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
Even if was remotely possible with current ML tech, you still need Apple to sign the drivers.

AI isn't going to be capable of this but even pretending if it could: Getting the source code would be a good start.
 

broly

Suspended
Apr 1, 2020
64
13
edmonton
as always, we can count on tsialex for a measured and appropriate response.

i have been saying for some time this POS is going to have problems with memory mapping.

essentially the whole purpose of these "PCIe slots" is so Tim Cook can say "hahahaha, i proved you wrong, i did it!!"


but really, after when we learn about, in marcan's words, how "special" these slots are (just like a certain bus, no offense to its occupants whom i love both dearly and unconditionally), it's going to be a laugh.

DMA is a nightmare with ARM, PERIOD.

no one is going to write anything for this car crash disappo--actually wait, i am sure there will be "developers" writing half-baked drivers for the professional audio industry (as they always do) so they, too, can extract thousands of dollars per bagholder.

i can't wait to see how badly this ends for the entire APPUL desktop segment in a few years. all to keep the margins high and pump the stock. that's just a fact.

the AR goggle thread is like a support group. the first post was hilarious ("biggest moment since 2007"). that's when you know you're holding big bags.

bags so big you can pogo

 

jasoncarle

Suspended
Jan 13, 2006
623
460
Minnesota
I moved to a threadripper/nvidia based workflow a long time ago and I suggest you all that were hoping for a more supported mac pro do the same thing.
 

Matty_TypeR

macrumors 6502a
Oct 1, 2016
641
555
UK
This is where Apple need to throw Mac pro 7.1 owner's a bone, support for the 7900xtx as a last GFX upgrade for the Mac pro 7.1 or a really clever person to create an install for it if possible. Even the 6950XTX is not supported.
 

avro707

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2010
2,263
1,654
I moved to a threadripper/nvidia based workflow a long time ago and I suggest you all that were hoping for a more supported mac pro do the same thing.

Sounds like a good option. Even just jump over to Windows 11 for the moment and get one of these new GPUs.

Then when you get a new PC workstation worked out, you can take your NVidia or Radeon Pro W7900 out of the Mac Pro and use it on the PC workstation. And sell off the Mac Pro.

Or part out the 7,1 and sell all the bits separately at inflated prices, someone will buy them.
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,342
2,975
Australia
Btw, I bet that Asahi Linux will provide full third party PCIe GPU support (obviously for the GPUs that already have Linux ARM drivers) with the new Mac Pro in the week that the first developer gets one.

popcorn_moss.gif
 

jasoncarle

Suspended
Jan 13, 2006
623
460
Minnesota
Sounds like a good option. Even just jump over to Windows 11 for the moment and get one of these new GPUs.

Then when you get a new PC workstation worked out, you can take your NVidia or Radeon Pro W7900 out of the Mac Pro and use it on the PC workstation. And sell off the Mac Pro.

Or part out the 7,1 and sell all the bits separately at inflated prices, someone will buy them.

Right now, you can't put a 7900 into a Mac Pro. Secondly, all those steps take time from actual work.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,342
2,975
Australia
Why would you over spend to put windows on a mac pro?

edit: An overpriced and underperforming Mac Pro no less...

Why buy a Mac Pro at all when you can spend the same amount on a machine that will outperform it?

Because you'd already spent $16-30k on a machine Apple sold you as being a part of their renewed focus on the pro sector - that they sold you with an implicit promise that it would be maintained and they were back in the game as a trustworthy business partner, and which they obsolesced without any forward upgrade path and a single moment's consideration.

Don't be so goddamn insensitive - there are real people in this forum, who have real businesses and practices that were built around a seriously expensive piece of capital equipment and macOS, who have had the rug pulled out from under them.
 

Rukuru

macrumors newbie
Sep 16, 2010
29
9
I am not naïve, and I probably just wasted a little bit of time.
However, I have a Mac Pro 2019 and we should have drivers for AMD 7900 and W7900 so I sent a feature request. Everyone of you could probably do the same:

 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,321
3,003
As long as Apple doesn't support the AMD 7900 series with a GPU with a Macintosh label, they wont approve drivers. And with the Mac silicon they most certainly wont.

Lou
 

avro707

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2010
2,263
1,654
I am not naïve, and I probably just wasted a little bit of time.
However, I have a Mac Pro 2019 and we should have drivers for AMD 7900 and W7900 so I sent a feature request. Everyone of you could probably do the same:


Already done, I will send another requesting support for AMD RDNA 3 based cards in Monterey, Ventura and Sonoma.

I doubt it will do anything, but it's worth a try. The permanent solution is to move away from Apple.
 
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