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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Mossberg also mentions there are no earphones provided in the box. Shame on Google.

Fine, but haven't we all acknowledged included ear buds are crap? What I like that a Google is including not only a USB-C to USB-C cable, but also a USB-A to USB-C cable as well as an OTG adapter--things no other OEM includes. Imagine if they'd only included the USB-C to USB-C cable and your computer didn't have a USB-C port (most don't yet)?
 

maxsix

Suspended
Jun 28, 2015
3,100
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Western Hemisphere
If you purchase the pixel and pixel xl through the google store, you can root and unlock the boot loader. Pretty sweet!

http://www.xda-developers.com/googl...ooted-and-come-with-an-unlockable-bootloader/
This is one primary reason I always purchase direct from Google.

I've been rooting and modding since T-Mobile released the first Android phone in the USA, it's been a big part of my Android experience. Yet that said it's no longer the necessity it once was, current Androids are exemplary right out of the box.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Actually can someone with access to google store where they have pre-orders for the pixel, can you tell me if the blue model is available ...

Looking at the likes of currys.co.uk I see they only have black and silver.

Is the blue a google store exclusive ?
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
Fine, but haven't we all acknowledged included ear buds are crap? What I like that a Google is including is non only a USB-C to USB-C cable, but also a USB-A to USB-C cable as well as an OTG adapter--things no other OEM includes. Imagine if they'd only included the USB-C to USB-C cable and your computer didn't have a USB-C port (most don't yet)?

Fair points.
 

Lava Lamp Freak

macrumors 68000
Jun 1, 2006
1,572
624
Something I don't understand is why they insist on making phones so slippery in the hand just to make them prettier. I'd rather have a phone made from materials with a grip on them rather than aluminum (aluminium) that I have to hide with a case.
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
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Actually can someone with access to google store where they have pre-orders for the pixel, can you tell me if the blue model is available ...

Looking at the likes of currys.co.uk I see they only have black and silver.

Is the blue a google store exclusive ?


Google store tells me it's sold out in both sizes, and also that it's not available (like at all) in 128GB. What???
 
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MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Fine, but haven't we all acknowledged included ear buds are crap? What I like that a Google is including is not only a USB-C to USB-C cable, but also a USB-A to USB-C cable as well as an OTG adapter--things no other OEM includes. Imagine if they'd only included the USB-C to USB-C cable and your computer didn't have a USB-C port (most don't yet)?

HTC pro earbuds HD audio with the HTC 10 are excellent in fairness ... though don't think America got those either.

I see LG are including some B&O headphones with certain V20 orders.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
Can you link to some of the reviews? I've checked YouTube and Google and don't see anything other than hands-on videos at the Google events. There's an NDA that hasn't lifted yet so that's what a lot of us are waiting on so we can see real reviews before making a decision.

There are some people on Reddit who received the phones early, but those don't really count as reviews.

The Verge is up.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/18/13304090/google-pixel-phone-review-pixel-xl
 

maxsix

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I'm kinda glad the Pixel XL was sold out when I went to order. It gave me a chance to look at the LG V20 and realize it's a much better phone for me. I like plain vanilla but the little touches like second screen, IR blaster, removable battery, knock on, customizable soft keys and LG skin is very light and uniformed across the device.
That's the wonderful thing about Android many choices.
The LG V20 is an excellent model.

Very high build quality, their best skinned version of Android to date, I bet you'll be very happy with yours. Fast, stable and quite dependable, it's a great choice in my opinion.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,628
11,298
Pixel may have an AI hardware advantage afterall so it's not as simple as claiming Google Assistant is the same as Google Now. Being aware that major players such as Intel, Google, Facebook, Nvidia, etc. are building AI coprocessors so after some digging discovered that beginning with Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 it has dedicated Neural Processing Engine. Granted other devices have Snapdragon 82x but as far as Google devices only Pixel have that capability and not Nexus 6P, 5X, etc.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...mobile-devices-smarter-new-snapdragon-machine

Qualcomm Helps Make Your Mobile Devices Smarter With New Snapdragon Machine Learning Software Development Kit
Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine SDK First to Accelerate Deep Learning On Snapdragon 820 Series Processor
MAY 2, 2016 SAN DIEGO

Qualcomm products mentioned within this press release are offered by Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. and/or its subsidiaries.

Qualcomm Incorporated (NASDAQ: QCOM) today announced at the Embedded Vision Summit in Santa Clara, Calif., that its subsidiary, Qualcomm Technologies, Inc., is offering the first deep learning software development kit (SDK) for devices powered by Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 820 processors. The SDK, called the Qualcomm Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine, is powered by the Qualcomm® Zeroth™ Machine Intelligence Platform and is optimized to utilize Snapdragon’s heterogeneous compute capabilities to provide OEMs a powerful, energy efficient platform for delivering intuitive and engaging deep learning-driven experiences on device. This SDK is the latest software addition to Snapdragon 820 and demonstrates Qualcomm Technologies’ continued leadership by adding value for our customers to the Snapdragon portfolio.

Qualcomm Technologies, with the introduction of the Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine, is the first mobile SOC provider to offer a deep learning toolkit optimized for mobile. This SDK will allow OEMs to run their own neural network models on Snapdragon 820 devices such as smart phones, security cameras, automobiles and drones, all without a connection to the cloud. Common deep learning user experiences that can be realized with the SDK are scene detection, text recognition, object tracking and avoidance, gesturing, face recognition and natural language processing.

The Zeroth Machine Intelligence Platform is a Snapdragon-optimized software platform designed for mobile machine learning. Zeroth technology currently drives visual intelligence software such as Snapdragon Scene Detect and advanced malware detection software found in Snapdragon Smart Protect.

“The demand for untethered, mobile learning-driven user experiences is increasing rapidly and Qualcomm Technologies’ customers have been clamoring for tools to help them realize their product visions,” said Gary Brotman, director of product management, Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. “With the introduction of the new Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine SDK, we are making it possible for myriad sectors, including mobile, IoT and automotive to harnesses the power of Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 and make high-performance, power efficient on-device deep learning a reality.”

The Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine SDK also includes the following features:

  • accelerated runtime for on-device execution of convolutional and recurrent neural networks on the Snapdragon 820 cores (Qualcomm® Kryo™ CPU, Qualcomm® Adreno™ GPU, Qualcomm® Hexagon™ DSP);
  • support for common deep learning model frameworks, including Caffe and CudaConvNet;
  • a lightweight, flexible platform designed to utilize Snapdragon heterogeneous cores to deliver optimal performance and power consumption;
  • supports companies in a broad range of industries, including healthcare, automotive, security and imaging, to run their own proprietary trained neural network models on portable devices.
“The Qualcomm Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine SDK helps us bring deep learning to our connected camera and smart cloud network, and that helps us present a full, contextual picture of the driving environment to our commercial automotive fleet and auto insurance customers,” said Frederick Soo, chief technology officer of NAUTO, the autonomous vehicle technology company. “The Neural Processing Engine SDK means we can quickly deploy our proprietary deep learning algorithms to our Snapdragon-based connected camera devices in the field, which can detect driver distraction and help prevent auto accidents. That same deep learning helps NAUTO’s system deliver valuable information that helps our customers reduce liability and drive more safely and efficiently.”

The Snapdragon Neural Processing Engine SDK is expected to be available for Snapdragon 820 processors in the second half of 2016.
 
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bmac4

Suspended
Feb 14, 2013
4,885
1,877
Atlanta Ga
Well I think you missed my entire point, imo the pixel isn't worth as much as its price.

I didn't miss your point. I just don't understand how the iPhone and Pixel are not worth the money charged. Is the S7/S7 edge any better built then those two? The Pixel may lack the design, but it's still built super well, and it's specs are better then both the S7/S7 edge. I understand these are priced high, but it seems their market value. Google is having not issues selling them right now.
 
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maxsix

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I'm starting to get the feeling that next years Pixel will be what this years should have been.
This is a familiar refrain that has applied to many tech products over the years.

Price... really?

Reminds one of "Apple Tax" :D
[doublepost=1476823270][/doublepost]
100% this. That's what's further frustrating about this year's Pixel. You know next year's will have waterproofing and possibly wireless charging especially if Apple finally gets into that game.
I'm happy with Pixel XL!

For my usage it's got more "Pros" than "Cons".

I haven't owned the perfect smartphone yet, and wouldn't know how to act if I did.

My Google Pixel XL is due to arrive in just days... WooHoo :D
 

bmac4

Suspended
Feb 14, 2013
4,885
1,877
Atlanta Ga
This is a familiar refrain that has applied to many tech products over the years.

Price... really?

Reminds one of "Apple Tax" :D

I don't understand this idea that the Pixel and iPhone are not worth their flagship price, but the S7 is? Why is the S7 worth so much more?

I will agree all smartphones are over priced, but guess what. We pay for them, so they are going to keep charging us for them. Sure the Pixel seemed high because everyone was use to the "Nexus" prices that started with the Nexus 4. All the nexus phones since then have compromised something to keep the phone cheap. Google decided it was not compromising anything with the Pixel, so they can ask flagship prices.

Compare this phone to the budget phones, and the Pixel justifies the price with its specs and build. All those budget phones have some kind of comprise to make them cheap. While those phones are amazing phones, they are not flagships. There is a place for budget phones, but let's not forget that is what they are budget phones. The Pixel, iPhone, and Galaxy S phones are not budget phone.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
I didn't miss your point. I just don't understand how the iPhone and Pixel are not worth the money charged. Is the S7/S7 edge any better built then those two? The Pixel may lack the design, but it's still built super well, and it's specs are better then both the S7/S7 edge. I understand these are priced high, but it seems their market value. Google is having not issues selling them right now.

Perceived value is different for all of us. The iPhone is missing way too many features to be worth the selling price, but as I said that's MY opinion. Funny enough that I paid full price for my 7+, but I feel I overpaid. Now the pixel I definitely feel it's not worth the money, and have stated my reasons why my opinion is so formed many times. You mention market value, and that's part of my point. The iPhone can command its price because that value is supported by the market, regardless of whether I think it's worth it or not. One of my points in my discussion was that I feel the Pixel cannot command it's price because the market will not bear that value, once again just opinion and armchair quarterbacking.

I don't think the s7 is worth the price either, although I do find the form factor much nicer because of the screen to body ratio and feel this is much more important to ME than raw specs. You see, the difference of what we find important will affect each of our individual perceptions of value. Now the Note 7, that WAS worth it's price and then some, but once again the laundry list of things that heightened the perceived value to myself may be worthless to you. It's a very arbitrary debate that really has no right or wrong answers.
 
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Blaze4G

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2015
1,300
1,177
I don't understand this idea that the Pixel and iPhone are not worth their flagship price, but the S7 is? Why is the S7 worth so much more?

I will agree all smartphones are over priced, but guess what. We pay for them, so they are going to keep charging us for them. Sure the Pixel seemed high because everyone was use to the "Nexus" prices that started with the Nexus 4. All the nexus phones since then have compromised something to keep the phone cheap. Google decided it was not compromising anything with the Pixel, so they can ask flagship prices.

Compare this phone to the budget phones, and the Pixel justifies the price with its specs and build. All those budget phones have some kind of comprise to make them cheap. While those phones are amazing phones, they are not flagships. There is a place for budget phones, but let's not forget that is what they are budget phones. The Pixel, iPhone, and Galaxy S phones are not budget phone.
I agree. A year ago the iPhone was the same price with 16gb base, inferior camera, no wireless charging, no fast charging, display not as good. Yet the general concensous was the iPhone price was fine.
[doublepost=1476824802][/doublepost]
Perceived value is different for all of us. The iPhone is missing way too many features to be worth the selling price, but as I said that's MY opinion. Funny enough that I paid full price for my 7+, but I feel I overpaid. Now the pixel I definitely feel it's not worth the money, and have stated my reasons why my opinion is so formed many times. You mention market value, and that's part of my point. The iPhone can command its price because that value is supported by the market, regardless of whether I think it's worth it or not. One of my points in my discussion was that I feel the Pixel cannot command it's price because the market will not bear that value, once again just opinion and armchair quarterbacking.
This makes much more sense to me. If you think the pixel is overpriced then so is the iPhone. I have already stated I think both are as well as all the other flagships but they sell so can't blame them.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
I agree. A year ago the iPhone was the same price with 16gb base, inferior camera, no wireless charging, no fast charging, display not as good. Yet the general concensous was the iPhone price was fine.
[doublepost=1476824802][/doublepost]
This makes much more sense to me. If you think the pixel is overpriced then so is the iPhone. I have already stated I think both are as well as all the other flagships but they sell so can't blame them.

I do think they are BOTH overpriced, but for different reasons. What I also think is that the iPhone can sustain being overpriced, but the pixel can't. Once again, just my personal opinion.
 

tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Anything is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, plain and simple. Trying to quantitatively compare the costs of components for phones and using that to determine value is a foolish exercise, IMO. If Google and Apple can't keep their phones in stock at these high prices, hell, maybe they're not charging enough.

Someone finds the iPhone or Pixel overpriced, that's there perogotive. My friends spend thousands of dollars on a few NFL season tickets, something I personally find ridiculously overpriced but guess what, they're not the only one buying those tickets. People are willing to pay those prices and the team sells out.
 

bmac4

Suspended
Feb 14, 2013
4,885
1,877
Atlanta Ga
Perceived value is different for all of us. The iPhone is missing way too many features to be worth the selling price, but as I said that's MY opinion. Funny enough that I paid full price for my 7+, but I feel I overpaid. Now the pixel I definitely feel it's not worth the money, and have stated my reasons why my opinion is so formed many times. You mention market value, and that's part of my point. The iPhone can command its price because that value is supported by the market, regardless of whether I think it's worth it or not. One of my points in my discussion was that I feel the Pixel cannot command it's price because the market will not bear that value, once again just opinion and armchair quarterbacking.

I don't think the s7 is worth the price either, although I do find the form factor much nicer because of the screen to body ratio and feel this is much more important to ME than raw specs. You see, the difference of what we find important will affect each of our individual perceptions of value. Now the Note 7, that WAS worth it's price and then some, but once again the laundry list of things that heightened the perceived value to myself may be worthless to you. It's a very arbitrary debate that really has no right or wrong answers.

Ok I got you. I understand what you are saying. I do disagree, but again just our opinions. What I will say is, I will pay the premium for the iPhone for the service that you get when you buy an iPhone. You can't not get that anywhere else, Samsung can't do it, the 24/7 service Google won't do it, and any other support that others offer. That to me is worth every penny Apple charges. Now to the point of the Pixel. I don't know what the sales expectations are for google, but right now the phones are sold out on the google store. Someone thinks these phones are worth it, but I do understand it is missing features you think make up a flagship. I think we will just disagree on those, but I think that is fine.
 

Blaze4G

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2015
1,300
1,177
I do think they are BOTH overpriced, but for different reasons. What I also think is that the iPhone can sustain being overpriced, but the pixel can't. Once again, just my personal opinion.
I agree with you. Google had the set the price this high IMO if it ever wants to sell phones at flagship prices. Think of it like this, let's say Google made the pixel this year and the next 2 years with a price of $549. When they raise the price of the 4th gen pixel there is going to be a backlash.

Another instance is if the price for the first gen was $549. Then next year Google adds waterproofing and wireless charging and change the price to $649. There would still be a big backlash.

Its hard for consumers to buy something today at a lower price then pay a lot more for the updated version the next year.

This is all my opinion though.
 
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spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
Ok I got you. I understand what you are saying. I do disagree, but again just our opinions. What I will say is, I will pay the premium for the iPhone for the service that you get when you buy an iPhone. You can't not get that anywhere else, Samsung can't do it, the 24/7 service Google won't do it, and any other support that others offer. That to me is worth every penny Apple charges. Now to the point of the Pixel. I don't know what the sales expectations are for google, but right now the phones are sold out on the google store. Someone thinks these phones are worth it, but I do understand it is missing features you think make up a flagship. I think we will just disagree on those, but I think that is fine.

Yeah I agree on the service part, and my perceived value is just based on the phone itself. There are other factors which increase the overall perceived value of the iPhone. I apologize for not being clear on just meaning the hardware alone. Being able to waltz into an Apple store and have any issue addressed right on the spot by someone physically in front of me and that speaks good English is definitely a big deal. I've expressed before my feeling that Google really needs to open physical stores to compete with Apple, passing the football to Verizon will end in poor sales IMO.

As for the pixel being sold out, meh. I can remember last year the 6p was sold out and impossible to get, but a few short months later they were all over swappa for $300ish, and at the end of the day I don't think they broke any sales records or sold a huge amount. It's most probably only due to constrained supply, and not demand IMO, although I haven't seen any sales numbers yet.

But good discussion, thanks for not keeping it interesting.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,628
11,298
If Google and Apple can't keep their phones in stock at these high prices, hell, maybe they're not charging enough.

Not valid comparisons though. One hasn't shipped while the other is supply contrained due to a high number of warranty exchanges.

As far as worth, a lot of it has to do with how informed the consumer is. Your average Joe off the street will likely err on the side of caution and pay more for an established brand while a more informed consumer will likely go with the better product or equivalent product for less money. For example, I saw the exact same dress shirt at the mall except one was Banana Republic branded for ~$90 while the other is Hugo Boss branded at almost 3X the price. Same shirt, same material and same factory so no way I'd pay more. But on the other hand, CoH jeans are clearly superior in quality, fabric, stretchability, rivets, zipper, etc. so I'm willing to pay 2X more than other brands especially considering it lasts 2 to 3X longer. iPhones are comparable to $400 Chinese phones. If I'm paying more it has to be better so Pixel, Galaxy, etc.
 
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