No 2018 iMac?!

[Kevbasscat]

No one should be giving Apple a pass on any aspect of their business...and, for clarification, my reply should not be taken as a defense of what Apple has done over the past six years with regard to the Mac side of the business, merely an observation on what I see as driving factors in how Apple conducts its business based on observing patterns in how and what they roll out over the past 30+ years.

Apple has always been very restrained, disciplined - stingy if you will - when it comes to the hardware side of Mac engineering ever since it switched to Intel CPUs. Taking the whole of the updates that have been released, the schedule itself for its best selling products - MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and iMac have been updated quite regularly. Some have been wonderful updates, others have been rather pathetic, at best. I will spare all of us a list of either.

On the flip side, the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, have been neglected for way too long, given that there were updates that could have been made to each of them in the interim. Is there any reason that would excuse this? I can think of a few, but I have no desire to restart that particular flame war with anyone.

The truth is there are only so many designers, engineers, operations and marketing people that work at Apple. They can handle only so much work in any given day, month and year. Last year, it was the iPhone X, this year, it was the XS, XS Max, XR and the new iPad Pro along with the revisions to the Mac mini and the all new MacBook Air. Some were merely evolutions, others were new products cut from whole cloth. Next year, we will get at least the new Mac Pro, possibly a smaller iPhone to replace the hole left by the lack of an SE and iPhone 6/s, 7, 8 sized model. We may even get a completely new iMac and iMac Pro that completely jettison the existing industrial design. After all, it has been nearly 10 years since the 21.5" and 27" iMacs we introduced.

Apple engineers these solutions to stand out from other PC OEMs, because the Windows PC side is pretty much a race to the bottom in every single way and has been ever since the late 1980's. If Apple sold their current lineup as Windows-based PCs, they would be out of business sooner rather than later.

Any competent person can build their own PC, as evidenced by all the generic crap that Acer, ASUS, Dell, HP and Lenovo spit out on an annual basis. Some of them try to engineer better, but I have seen them retreat back as well, because the PC market hammers most innovation and penalizes those who offer anything other than the same old, same old. The whole PC market is based on cheap, cheap, cheap. Even Apple makes better Windows PCs than the above manufacturers. My Bootcamped MBP hands down runs smoother than the Windows PCs that I have had the displeasure of having to deal with ever since the switch to Intel.

None of the above listed companies have a lineup as diverse as Apple, with a smartphone, tablet, wearable and top 5 PC manufacturer product lines. Juggling those priorities is not an easy task and it means that your upgrade cycle and my upgrade cycle, or Intel's, or AMD's are not always in line with Apple's, and it is frustrating, even maddening, at times. Some of those things I can overlook, some I cannot, but at the end of the day, my alternative is to switch to Windows 10, which I just cannot bring myself ever to do, or to build a Hackintosh and spend time maintaining it. When I was younger, tinkering with a Hackintosh would probably have been right up my alley. Today, I have no patience and even less for Windows 10 and the continued forced idiocy of an operating system that thinks I have nothing better to do with my time than troubleshoot its sorry @$$. Fixing my father-in-laws virus issue and the complete time suck that it became only reinforced my complete disdain for Windows. Do I use Windows 10 from time to time? Yes. Do I like it? Hell no.

And so I wait patiently for the next iteration of the iMac, should I decide I need one. Not saying it is all Skittles and rainbows, but it is the decision I made. Everyone is different, with their own threshold of patience and frustration.

Very well put, and sensible. Thank you.

 

[iPadified]

ECC memory, for one.

Apple are also pretty cosy with Intel regarding things like development of Thunderbolt.

I believe that thunderbolt controllers are now open to implement for everyone. ECC ram, yes for the very few who needs it. You are probably right that Apple continues with Intel but the reasons are becoming weaker and weaker to chose Intel.

 

[Stephen.R]

I believe that thunderbolt controllers are now open to implement for everyone.

I meant more that apple might see their relationship with intel as more important than specific amd cpus. If intel listen to input for eg tb4 that helps apple.

 

[Cashmonee]

No one should be giving Apple a pass on any aspect of their business...and, for clarification, my reply should not be taken as a defense of what Apple has done over the past six years with regard to the Mac side of the business, merely an observation on what I see as driving factors in how Apple conducts its business based on observing patterns in how and what they roll out over the past 30+ years.

Apple has always been very restrained, disciplined - stingy if you will - when it comes to the hardware side of Mac engineering ever since it switched to Intel CPUs. Taking the whole of the updates that have been released, the schedule itself for its best selling products - MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and iMac have been updated quite regularly. Some have been wonderful updates, others have been rather pathetic, at best. I will spare all of us a list of either.

On the flip side, the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, have been neglected for way too long, given that there were updates that could have been made to each of them in the interim. Is there any reason that would excuse this? I can think of a few, but I have no desire to restart that particular flame war with anyone.

The truth is there are only so many designers, engineers, operations and marketing people that work at Apple. They can handle only so much work in any given day, month and year. Last year, it was the iPhone X, this year, it was the XS, XS Max, XR and the new iPad Pro along with the revisions to the Mac mini and the all new MacBook Air. Some were merely evolutions, others were new products cut from whole cloth. Next year, we will get at least the new Mac Pro, possibly a smaller iPhone to replace the hole left by the lack of an SE and iPhone 6/s, 7, 8 sized model. We may even get a completely new iMac and iMac Pro that completely jettison the existing industrial design. After all, it has been nearly 10 years since the 21.5" and 27" iMacs we introduced.

Apple engineers these solutions to stand out from other PC OEMs, because the Windows PC side is pretty much a race to the bottom in every single way and has been ever since the late 1980's. If Apple sold their current lineup as Windows-based PCs, they would be out of business sooner rather than later.

Any competent person can build their own PC, as evidenced by all the generic crap that Acer, ASUS, Dell, HP and Lenovo spit out on an annual basis. Some of them try to engineer better, but I have seen them retreat back as well, because the PC market hammers most innovation and penalizes those who offer anything other than the same old, same old. The whole PC market is based on cheap, cheap, cheap. Even Apple makes better Windows PCs than the above manufacturers. My Bootcamped MBP hands down runs smoother than the Windows PCs that I have had the displeasure of having to deal with ever since the switch to Intel.

None of the above listed companies have a lineup as diverse as Apple, with a smartphone, tablet, wearable and top 5 PC manufacturer product lines. Juggling those priorities is not an easy task and it means that your upgrade cycle and my upgrade cycle, or Intel's, or AMD's are not always in line with Apple's, and it is frustrating, even maddening, at times. Some of those things I can overlook, some I cannot, but at the end of the day, my alternative is to switch to Windows 10, which I just cannot bring myself ever to do, or to build a Hackintosh and spend time maintaining it. When I was younger, tinkering with a Hackintosh would probably have been right up my alley. Today, I have no patience and even less for Windows 10 and the continued forced idiocy of an operating system that thinks I have nothing better to do with my time than troubleshoot its sorry @$$. Fixing my father-in-laws virus issue and the complete time suck that it became only reinforced my complete disdain for Windows. Do I use Windows 10 from time to time? Yes. Do I like it? Hell no.

And so I wait patiently for the next iteration of the iMac, should I decide I need one. Not saying it is all Skittles and rainbows, but it is the decision I made. Everyone is different, with their own threshold of patience and frustration.

I would contend that Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo etc have at least as diverse a lineup as Apple does. Those companies make tablets, printers, monitors, motherboards, and far more. I also disagree that they just "throw things against the wall" and that their offerings are "cheap, cheap, cheap." Further, viruses on Windows? This is not the mid-2000's. Take an unbiased look at what Dell is putting out with the XPS line, or hp's envy line, the X series from Lenovo, and you will see very capable, well-built machines that offer as much or more than what Apple are putting out for far less money. Windows is not any more of a headache than macOS at this point either. You are using old outdated arguments. The simple fact is that Microsoft and their OEMs have caught up to Apple and in some cases surpassed them. The premium for Apple devices has grown while the advantage has shrunk. This is coming from an Apple fanboy. I have been all Apple for most of my adult life (I am 38 now), and there was a time when all of what you said was true, but no longer.

There is no reason a company like Apple cannot put out an annual update to their computer lineup. They are among the richest companies in history. This isn't the good ole days when they were the underdog. I am honestly baffled at how many people still defend them when they are selling old hardware at full price, and each revision is worse for the customer.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I would contend that Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo etc have at least as diverse a lineup as Apple does. Those companies make tablets, printers, monitors, motherboards, and far more. I also disagree that they just "throw things against the wall" and that their offerings are "cheap, cheap, cheap." Further, viruses on Windows? This is not the mid-2000's. Take an unbiased look at what Dell is putting out with the XPS line, or hp's envy line, the X series from Lenovo, and you will see very capable, well-built machines that offer as much or more than what Apple are putting out for far less money. Windows is not any more of a headache than macOS at this point either. You are using old outdated arguments. The simple fact is that Microsoft and their OEMs have caught up to Apple and in some cases surpassed them. The premium for Apple devices has grown while the advantage has shrunk. This is coming from an Apple fanboy. I have been all Apple for most of my adult life (I am 38 now), and there was a time when all of what you said was true, but no longer.

There is no reason a company like Apple cannot put out an annual update to their computer lineup. They are among the richest companies in history. This isn't the good ole days when they were the underdog. I am honestly baffled at how many people still defend them when they are selling old hardware at full price, and each revision is worse for the customer.

Dell has 4 distinct consumer laptop lines (Inspiron, XPS, G Series and Alienware), three distinct business laptop lines (Latitude, Vostro and Precision Mobile Workstations), three distinct consumer desktop lines (Inspiron, XPS and Alienware) and three distinct business desktop lines (Optiplex, Vostro and Precision Fixed Workstations). Along the way there is confusing overlap in what is best line for the customer depending. This is repeated along the same line with HP (Pavilion, Spectre, Envy, EliteBook, Omen, Stream and ZBook), etc etc. All of this is overkill and says nothing to the diversity of their actual lineup. If that's not throwing things against the wall, I do not know what is. I used to purchase Latitude and Optiplex desktops in a former life as a corporate purchaser, along with PowerEdge Servers. My mom had a Vostro until I replaced it with a 27" imac and BootCamp. I look over their site every so often, but they have actually taken away several BTO options or at least have made it harder to specify exactly what I want. Why would I spend all day trying to wade through masses of their product lines to find the right mix when it looks like Dell has just become way too clever for themselves.

Tablets and 2-In-1's almost exclusively coalesce around Windows 10 as Android is simply not a viable tablet operating system and its marketshare does nothing to convey its utter uselessness as a viable business model for any of these companies.

Printers, displays and motherboards are relevant in terms of a having a complete product portfolio, but that's about it. I purchase, own and use Dell displays and for the most part am very happy with them. I think Apple wasted their cache by discontinuing their displays, ending on a low note with the Thunderbolt Display, which is on Tim and the rest of the executive suite. LG is/was a horrible partner when it comes to standalone displays and the 5K/Router interference debacle was simply icing on a $#!^ sandwich that never should have happened, but I digress.

The same goes for the AirPort line. How so many supposedly smart executives at Apple would completely ignore the cardinal retail rule of purchase bundling when you have a captive audience and about 1000 wireless engineers employed at HQ is beyond me. It also loosens the stickiness of the Apple ecosystem along with a chance to innovate by creating a much better Time Capsule that would cache App Store updates for multiple device households, cache iTunes downloads, make an easy to use file server with iCloud backup, Siri home base, et al., again I digress.

However, none of the companies listed bear any of the weight of engineering their own operating system(s), instead licensing either ChromeOS, Android or some form or Windows. Apple has four (4) distinct operating systems that it maintains, upgrades and releases on an annual basis, along with 5 very diverse hardware lines that use those operating systems. No one else does that in this industry. Even MS gave up on their mobile OS, which was actually quite good, I liked it much better than Android, but it is what it is.

As for pricing, well, I am going to completely cherry pick this one (time constraints) and tell you that I priced out a 27" Dell XPS All In One and it was more or less a wash with the iMac, yet had lesser specs in the CPU and GPU department. Go figure!?!

Dell XPS 27" All In One Touch
Core i-7700
Windows 10 Home
16GB DRAM
512GB SSD
AMD RX570 8GB

Price $2499

iMac 27"
Core i7-7700K
macOS Mojave
16GB DRAM
512GB SSD
AMD RX580 8GB

Price $2,899

or

iMac 27"
Core i7-7700K
macOS Mojave
16GB DRAM
512GB SSD
AMD RX575 4GB

Price $2,799

No, it's not the Mid-2000s, but I had a heck of a time fixing the infamous Windows "Airplane" mode issue and discovered a particularly nasty trojan that Windows Defender was not equipped to handle and which kept replicating itself via Registry entries that could be manually deleted, yet survived a reboot. I had to download MalwareBytes onto a USB from an uninfected PC (my MacBook Pro), clean the computer (which it did) and then update Defender along with the rest of the computer via Ethernet as the Wi-Fi would still not work. So I found a table to Services that Windows 10 loads and uses by default along with the default startup type (Automatic, Manual, Automatic (Delayed Start), Disabled) and I went through the complete Services listing, setting them all to their correct values. After a couple of hours of doing that I was able to get Wi-fi up and running and keep it that way.

Windows is still a pain in the @$$...it still downloads and installs updates in its own contemptuous fashion, taking significant chunks of my productive time when all that should have happened was a simple reboot. Is it better than earlier versions of Windows? Yes. However, it is still not macOS or iOS.

Which brings me to my final point - if Windows is not any more of a headache than macOS and the hardware is well built, very capable and costs far less than Apple, then why do you even care? Why are you even here? Why do you want an iMac at all as you stated in post #1695 - "I really want an iMac. Badly. Apple are making it impossible to justify at this point. That should never happen."? Why have you not already purchased a Dell XPS Tower Special Edition with a Core i7-9900K, 32GB DRAM, GTX1080 8GB, a 1TB m.2 SSD and Windows 10 Pro? I priced it out, it is $1944.99. Add the monitor of your choice and go crazy with it! Wouldn't you be happier? Just an observation.

 

[Cashmonee]

Dell has 4 distinct consumer laptop lines (Inspiron, XPS, G Series and Alienware), three distinct business laptop lines (Latitude, Vostro and Precision Mobile Workstations), three distinct consumer desktop lines (Inspiron, XPS and Alienware) and three distinct business desktop lines (Optiplex, Vostro and Precision Fixed Workstations). Along the way there is confusing overlap in what is best line for the customer depending. This is repeated along the same line with HP (Pavilion, Spectre, Envy, EliteBook, Omen, Stream and ZBook), etc etc. All of this is overkill and says nothing to the diversity of their actual lineup. If that's not throwing things against the wall, I do not know what is. I used to purchase Latitude and Optiplex desktops in a former life as a corporate purchaser, along with PowerEdge Servers. My mom had a Vostro until I replaced it with a 27" imac and BootCamp. I look over their site every so often, but they have actually taken away several BTO options or at least have made it harder to specify exactly what I want. Why would I spend all day trying to wade through masses of their product lines to find the right mix when it looks like Dell has just become way too clever for themselves.

Tablets and 2-In-1's almost exclusively coalesce around Windows 10 as Android is simply not a viable tablet operating system and its marketshare does nothing to convey its utter uselessness as a viable business model for any of these companies.

Printers, displays and motherboards are relevant in terms of a having a complete product portfolio, but that's about it. I purchase, own and use Dell displays and for the most part am very happy with them. I think Apple wasted their cache by discontinuing their displays, ending on a low note with the Thunderbolt Display, which is on Tim and the rest of the executive suite. LG is/was a horrible partner when it comes to standalone displays and the 5K/Router interference debacle was simply icing on a $#!^ sandwich that never should have happened, but I digress.

The same goes for the AirPort line. How so many supposedly smart executives at Apple would completely ignore the cardinal retail rule of purchase bundling when you have a captive audience and about 1000 wireless engineers employed at HQ is beyond me. It also loosens the stickiness of the Apple ecosystem along with a chance to innovate by creating a much better Time Capsule that would cache App Store updates for multiple device households, cache iTunes downloads, make an easy to use file server with iCloud backup, Siri home base, et al., again I digress.

However, none of the companies listed bear any of the weight of engineering their own operating system(s), instead licensing either ChromeOS, Android or some form or Windows. Apple has four (4) distinct operating systems that it maintains, upgrades and releases on an annual basis, along with 5 very diverse hardware lines that use those operating systems. No one else does that in this industry. Even MS gave up on their mobile OS, which was actually quite good, I liked it much better than Android, but it is what it is.

As for pricing, well, I am going to completely cherry pick this one (time constraints) and tell you that I priced out a 27" Dell XPS All In One and it was more or less a wash with the iMac, yet had lesser specs in the CPU and GPU department. Go figure!?!

Dell XPS 27" All In One Touch
Core i-7700
Windows 10 Home
16GB DRAM
512GB SSD
AMD RX570 8GB

Price $2499

iMac 27"
Core i7-7700K
macOS Mojave
16GB DRAM
512GB SSD
AMD RX580 8GB

Price $2,899

or

iMac 27"
Core i7-7700K
macOS Mojave
16GB DRAM
512GB SSD
AMD RX575 4GB

Price $2,799

No, it's not the Mid-2000s, but I had a heck of a time fixing the infamous Windows "Airplane" mode issue and discovered a particularly nasty trojan that Windows Defender was not equipped to handle and which kept replicating itself via Registry entries that could be manually deleted, yet survived a reboot. I had to download MalwareBytes onto a USB from an uninfected PC (my MacBook Pro), clean the computer (which it did) and then update Defender along with the rest of the computer via Ethernet as the Wi-Fi would still not work. So I found a table to Services that Windows 10 loads and uses by default along with the default startup type (Automatic, Manual, Automatic (Delayed Start), Disabled) and I went through the complete Services listing, setting them all to their correct values. After a couple of hours of doing that I was able to get Wi-fi up and running and keep it that way.

Windows is still a pain in the @$$...it still downloads and installs updates in its own contemptuous fashion, taking significant chunks of my productive time when all that should have happened was a simple reboot. Is it better than earlier versions of Windows? Yes. However, it is still not macOS or iOS.

Which brings me to my final point - if Windows is not any more of a headache than macOS and the hardware is well built, very capable and costs far less than Apple, then why do you even care? Why are you even here? Why do you want an iMac at all as you stated in post #1695 - "I really want an iMac. Badly. Apple are making it impossible to justify at this point. That should never happen."? Why have you not already purchased a Dell XPS Tower Special Edition with a Core i7-9900K, 32GB DRAM, GTX1080 8GB, a 1TB m.2 SSD and Windows 10 Pro? I priced it out, it is $1944.99. Add the monitor of your choice and go crazy with it! Wouldn't you be happier? Just an observation.

Wow. Hit a nerve, lol. I am not going to reply to all of this as most of it is going through product lineups for some reason.

Anyway, Windows now installs updates upon shutdown or overnight. It has been that way for a while. And I do have a PC. I built my own for far less than an equivalent Mac. I had it as a system for my son and myself to game on, but have now begun to use it as my primary device because my current home Macs are aging and not fast enough for Lightroom anymore. If I had a choice, I would stay in the Mac world. I have been using Apple products exclusively for nearly 2 decades. Unfortunately, Apple has left me little choice.

As for your pricing. I admit that Apple still has the market on all-in-ones. Though I would debate whether an AIO is ever a good choice. The thing is, with Apple, it is your only choice in many cases since they do not make a mid range headless computer. Also, you are definitely cherry-picking, especially the last Dell for $1944.99. You do not have to buy the RAM or drive from Dell, or even the video card. Also, there is no reason to purchase the Pro version of Windows. Also, you inadvertently are pointing to a machine that is not attainable in Mac form. Apple is not offering any 9th-gen CPUs and does not offer Nvidia. In fact, to spec a machine close to that you would be looking at going with the iMac Pro at $4999 that will have a slower GPU. Not really sure what your point was there other than to make mine that Apple is charging more for less.

**EDIT** I just thought about that Dell a little more. Holy cow! $2000! A mini with i7/1TB/32GB is $2499!!! That machine destroys the mini for $500 less!

 

[sgw123]

All things being equal, I do not think they are trying to be anti-consumer. Apple's release schedule with regard to desktop and laptop computers is dictated to a point by Intel and AMD's release schedules.

When Intel first release 8th Generation Coffee Lake CPUs in late September of 2017, they only introduced a small subset of the CPUs that currently make up the 8th Generation products. It was not until April of 2018 that they filled out the rest of their product portfolio and released the 28w TDP U-Series w/ four(4) cores and the 45w TDP H-Series w/ six(6) cores. Apple released their update to the 13" and 15" TB MacBook Pros in mid-July. Right after WWDC, Apple took a beating on these forums when they failed to release those new MacBook Pros during the developer conference. I truly believe that Apple was caught in a Catch-22 with the CPUs being announced and shipping and AMD being >this close< to shipping the Vega 16 and Vega 20 GPU upgrades and that they were most likely slated for introduction at WWDC. Apple chose to introduce the updated MacBook Pro at a particularly awkward moment, to get it out the door and take the hit later when AMD was able to provide them with enough Vega 16 and 20 GPUs to fill the order.

On the desktop side, although Intel had introduced all the S-Series 65w and 95w CPUs that Apple would use in updated 21.5" and 27" iMacs, AMD had absolutely ZERO new GPUs to include in such an update, which would be a huge engineering waste, as 8th Gen requires a new PCH (300-Series) and to engineer a new motherboard using the older Polaris 20 GPUs would win no prizes with users or Apple executives at this point, while the lack of a Vega 56 and 64 successor, made using those GPUs a complete no go as that would have muddied the waters between the iMac and the iMac Pro.

Which leads us up to now - given that Intel has once again released a very small subset of their 9th Generation CPUs (Core i5-9600K, Core i7-9700K and Core i9-9900K), it would seem logical that they will fill out the rest of the 9th Gen product line in Q1 or Q2 of 2019. The wrinkle for Intel now is the strain on its 14nm production capacity that it has been running to address to meet the current demand for its CPUs and chipsets - https://www.anandtech.com/show/13684/intel-further-boosts-capex-to-meet-demand-for-14nm-chips

My personal belief is that Apple has got revised iMacs working and ready to go that can use either the 8th Gen and/or 9th Gen, incorporate a T2 chip, the rumored new Radeon RX3060, RX3070 and RX3080 GPU in an iMac Pro-style chassis with sealed RAM access and no HDD. It is very much my belief that Apple wants to jump over the 8th generation and go straight to 9th, so that the jump to pure SSD storage, the T2 chip along with completely revised GPUs, et al. will justify the price increase that we are likely to see for these computers. I also believe they will leave the 7th-Gen iMacs on sale as they have with the MacBook Air and MacBook Pros to help users transition.

They are likely also waiting on Intel to introduce the much rumored 22-core version of the Xeon W CPU along with revised W-series CPUs based on the recently refreshed Core X-Series CPUs (98**X and 99**X) released in September. I have postulated many times that Apple will move the base iMac Pro to 10-cores and put the 22-core option at the top end to give the revised iMac some breathing room, at least from a marketing perspective. Although, the rumors of 10-core S-Series CPUs have pitched that out the window, to an extent (https://hothardware.com/news/intels...ktop-14nm-cpus-rumored-to-pack-up-to-10-cores)

Also complicating an update to the iMac is the need for revised Vega GPUs to replace the Vega 56 and Vega 64 in the iMac Pro, especially after reading rumors that the RX30*0-Series could begin bumping up against the older Vega GPUs in terms of horsepower. AMD is on track to release 7nm Vega Instinct GPUs, neé Vega 2 (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-files-trademark-vega-2-logo,38225.html) at some point in Q1/Q2 2019. Additionally, AMD has been very quiet on the GPU front, so I am hoping they are concentrating on making sure the 7nm process is stable and ready to begin shipping enough GPUs to meet Apple's needs soon after the formal product announcement is made.

My takeaway is that Apple, which has always been content to sit on a release until everything aligns, is waiting on Intel to announce and ship the rest of the 9th Gen portfolio, along with revised Xeon W-Series CPUs and for AMD to announce and ship both the RX30*0-Series and Vega 2 GPUs so that it can update both product lines at the same time along with introducing the new Mac Pro. I would think that WWDC 2019 in June is the most likely scenario, with the iMac and iMac Pro available immediately and the Mac Pro shipping later in the 2019 when macOS 10.15 ships.

Yes, it is frustrating for many, myself included, but Apple is somewhat at the mercy of Intel and AMD, whereas with the iPhone, iPad and Watch, they can release according to their own schedule without any of us ever knowing what hurdles they face internally, while both Intel and AMD must disclose these things during their quarterly filings as they are public companies. Apple, although a public company, never publishes product roadmaps the way that Intel and AMD tend to do to provide guidance to OEMs and the public.

Just my take on all of this...time will tell whether I am right...or not!

EDIT: This just came across the 'tubes. Take it with a grain of salt, as usual - https://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-navi-10-to-launch-in-mid-2019-compete-with-rtx-2080/

This is my favorite post on here for a long time - as much as I'm frustrated with Apple it gives some reasons for their moves - rather than just defending them blindly. Very civilised, intelligent, well-informed - much more informed than me, which is ultimately why I come to a forum - to find out more information - and moves the debate along - even if I'm still profoundly p...d off with Apple. One other thing I appreciate - there's no name calling or generalisations - just statements of facts, clear statements of inferences and clear statements of opinion - nothing personal. Chapeau

 

[Zdigital2015]

Wow. Hit a nerve, lol. I am not going to reply to all of this as most of it is going through product lineups for some reason.

Anyway, Windows now installs updates upon shutdown or overnight. It has been that way for a while. And I do have a PC. I built my own for far less than an equivalent Mac. I had it as a system for my son and myself to game on, but have now begun to use it as my primary device because my current home Macs are aging and not fast enough for Lightroom anymore. If I had a choice, I would stay in the Mac world. I have been using Apple products exclusively for nearly 2 decades. Unfortunately, Apple has left me little choice.

As for your pricing. I admit that Apple still has the market on all-in-ones. Though I would debate whether an AIO is ever a good choice. The thing is, with Apple, it is your only choice in many cases since they do not make a mid range headless computer. Also, you are definitely cherry-picking, especially the last Dell for $1944.99. You do not have to buy the RAM or drive from Dell, or even the video card. Also, there is no reason to purchase the Pro version of Windows. Also, you inadvertently are pointing to a machine that is not attainable in Mac form. Apple is not offering any 9th-gen CPUs and does not offer Nvidia. In fact, to spec a machine close to that you would be looking at going with the iMac Pro at $4999 that will have a slower GPU. Not really sure what your point was there other than to make mine that Apple is charging more for less.

**EDIT** I just thought about that Dell a little more. Holy cow! $2000! A mini with i7/1TB/32GB is $2499!!! That machine destroys the mini for $500 less!

You did, let me elucidate.

You probably don't remember the I Love You virus, but I spent all day cleaning that up after one of my *cough*co-workers*cough* opened up an e-mail in Outlook 97/98, I think it was, and completely screwed over my rather busy day configuring a 3COM switch and a Cisco 2510 router. I went to another job a couple of years later and on the very day I was installing anti-virus on all of the computers at that office, as the previous IT guy had never done, one of my *cough*co-workers*cough* opened an e-mail and spread another virus (I forget which one). I was there until midnight that evening installing, cleaning up the mess. I almost missed a friend's wake when a PERC RAID card in a newly purchased Dell PowerEdge server decided it didn't like my Windows Server installation and proceeded to go haywire for no particular reason, resulting in a continuous streak of BSOD and obscenities. I shut that POS off and went to the wake not caring that I quite possibly could have been fired considering the server was borderline mission-critical and was needed to replace an aging decrepit Novell Netware server that decided to start shucking clients and storage at random intervals. I fixed the issue early the next day, but had to completely redo the RAID volumes and reinstall Windows Server. Not necessarily MS fault, but close enough. Shortly after becoming a Project Manager in later 2002, I gave up dealing with Windows on a daily basis and went back to the Mac, as they say. I still deal with Windows occasionally, and once even visited the MS campus and met some wonderful people there, but I cannot say I will ever willingly use any version of Windows for important mission critical work as I find the lack of respect for my time and patience, coupled with Microsoft's lack of *cough*resolve*cough* in building a better, more secure, less crash-prone Windows while simultaneously cutting off once and for all, all the old ancient code and apps that have been built on top of the creaking mountain that is currently Windows. I get it, Windows has come a long way. However, after this most recent foray into Windows 10 land with an HP Pavilion laptop, a stupid bug that has existed since at least Windows 8 and dealing with a damn persistent Trojan and a Services Control Panel that has literally NOT changed since Windows NT, I will gladly pay Apple $2499 for a Mac mini that is $500 more than that spiffy Windows desktop and just keep on trucking. I will also give Tim Cook, Phill Schiller, Jony Ive and any other executive a piece of my mind when they fall down on their job as they did with the Mac mini, the Mac Pro, displays, Airport among other things. They are not perfect by any means.

I cherry picked that Dell as it was the most comparable. I added in a Dell desktop as I have had these debates before and the gauntlet of the desktop is thrown quite often. Apple does not make a comparable mini-tower and never will. We lost that when the G4 became the G5 and the price went UP...it has gone up ever since. Apples and oranges as it were.

I specced the DRAM and the SSD from Dell as they are as cheap as anybody. I can do PC Part Picker with the best of them, but I am not going to worry about $20, $50 or even $100 building a high-end PC. I still remember the 2-1/2 thick Computer Shoppers of my youth. I alway spec Windows 10 Pro, I have never built a PC with the Home version of any Windows OS, even Vista was Vista Ultimate. Using Dell's DRAM, storage and GPU mimics what most of us end up doing when buying a Mac more closely. Besides, if I purchase an extended or onsite warranty from Dell, RMA and swapping parts becomes their problem, not mine.

The iMac Pro is a fine computer, I have no problem with the Vega 56. For what you get, the price is fair. I have no use for a Xeon at this point and if I did, I would have no issue buying one. I am eager to see 6-core and 8-core iMacs, like everyone else. However, Intel really hasn't ramped up things as much as they would like us to think and haven't since Sandy Bridge.

I game on an Xbox One and I could honestly could care less about gaming on a PC, but that's my choice. I also could give a toss about NVIDIA. If you need it for CUDA, I understand, but that's about it.

Adobe Lightroom works fine on Windows, wouldn't it be easier for you to simply move your Libraries over to that spiffy new Dell XPS desktop?

 

[Cashmonee]

I guess that is my point here @Zdigital2015 . That Dell you spec'd out has an 8 core 9th-gen CPU and a GTX1080 and is $500 LESS than the 6 core 8th-gen mini with iGPU. You are correct, we all have our breaking point and I guess that is mine.

Even putting another $500 into an eGPU would leave with a still slower machine and having spent $1000 more. That does not even get into the fact that the Dell is more upgradable and repairable. I love macOS and certainly prefer it to Windows 10 even with all the gains it has made, but I think anyone that is not having their business pay for it would have a hard time really justifying that cost.

For me, all Apple really would have to have done for the iMac is give me 8th-gen chips and SSD standard. At that point they are at least somewhat competitive with a PC. But comparing something like that Dell to what is currently on the iMac is joke.
[doublepost=1544655677][/doublepost]

You did, let me elucidate.

You probably don't remember the I Love You virus, but I spent all day cleaning that up after one of my *cough*co-workers*cough* opened up an e-mail in Outlook 97/98, I think it was, and completely screwed over my rather busy day configuring a 3COM switch and a Cisco 2510 router. I went to another job a couple of years later and on the very day I was installing anti-virus on all of the computers at that office, as the previous IT guy had never done, one of my *cough*co-workers*cough* opened an e-mail and spread another virus (I forget which one). I was there until midnight that evening installing, cleaning up the mess. I almost missed a friend's wake when a PERC RAID card in a newly purchased Dell PowerEdge server decided it didn't like my Windows Server installation and proceeded to go haywire for no particular reason, resulting in a continuous streak of BSOD and obscenities. I shut that POS off and went to the wake not caring that I quite possibly could have been fired considering the server was borderline mission-critical and was needed to replace an aging decrepit Novell Netware server that decided to start shucking clients and storage at random intervals. I fixed the issue early the next day, but had to completely redo the RAID volumes and reinstall Windows Server. Not necessarily MS fault, but close enough. Shortly after becoming a Project Manager in later 2002, I gave up dealing with Windows on a daily basis and went back to the Mac, as they say. I still deal with Windows occasionally, and once even visited the MS campus and met some wonderful people there, but I cannot say I will ever willingly use any version of Windows for important mission critical work as I find the lack of respect for my time and patience, coupled with Microsoft's lack of *cough*resolve*cough* in building a better, more secure, less crash-prone Windows while simultaneously cutting off once and for all, all the old ancient code and apps that have been built on top of the creaking mountain that is currently Windows. I get it, Windows has come a long way. However, after this most recent foray into Windows 10 land with an HP Pavilion laptop, a stupid bug that has existed since at least Windows 8 and dealing with a damn persistent Trojan and a Services Control Panel that has literally NOT changed since Windows NT, I will gladly pay Apple $2499 for a Mac mini that is $500 more than that spiffy Windows desktop and just keep on trucking. I will also give Tim Cook, Phill Schiller, Jony Ive and any other executive a piece of my mind when they fall down on their job as they did with the Mac mini, the Mac Pro, displays, Airport among other things. They are not perfect by any means.

I cherry picked that Dell as it was the most comparable. I added in a Dell desktop as I have had these debates before and the gauntlet of the desktop is thrown quite often. Apple does not make a comparable mini-tower and never will. We lost that when the G4 became the G5 and the price went UP...it has gone up ever since. Apples and oranges as it were.

I specced the DRAM and the SSD from Dell as they are as cheap as anybody. I can do PC Part Picker with the best of them, but I am not going to worry about $20, $50 or even $100 building a high-end PC. I still remember the 2-1/2 thick Computer Shoppers of my youth. I alway spec Windows 10 Pro, I have never built a PC with the Home version of any Windows OS, even Vista was Vista Ultimate. Using Dell's DRAM, storage and GPU mimics what most of us end up doing when buying a Mac more closely. Besides, if I purchase an extended or onsite warranty from Dell, RMA and swapping parts becomes their problem, not mine.

The iMac Pro is a fine computer, I have no problem with the Vega 56. For what you get, the price is fair. I have no use for a Xeon at this point and if I did, I would have no issue buying one. I am eager to see 6-core and 8-core iMacs, like everyone else. However, Intel really hasn't ramped up things as much as they would like us to think and haven't since Sandy Bridge.

I game on an Xbox One and I could honestly could care less about gaming on a PC, but that's my choice. I also could give a toss about NVIDIA. If you need it for CUDA, I understand, but that's about it.

Adobe Lightroom works fine on Windows, wouldn't it be easier for you to simply move your Libraries over to that spiffy new Dell XPS desktop?

I have moved the libraries over to my PC. It isn't as nice as that Dell, but I built it with my son, and that was a fun experience. And to be honest, it is fast and was very economical.

And I don't mean to confrontational. I understand that many people have been burned by Windows, and I myself am not exactly its biggest fan. But I have been using it as my main home machine for a little while now, and I have to say, it isn't as different from macOS as it used to be. There are still rough edges to be sure, but things really have improved. I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.

 

[Zdigital2015]

This is my favorite post on here for a long time - as much as I'm frustrated with Apple it gives some reasons for their moves - rather than just defending them blindly. Very civilised, intelligent, well-informed - much more informed than me, which is ultimately why I come to a forum - to find out more information - and moves the debate along - even if I'm still profoundly p...d off with Apple. One other thing I appreciate - there's no name calling or generalisations - just statements of facts, clear statements of inferences and clear statements of opinion - nothing personal. Chapeau

Thanks! I try...now there are a few people on these forums who drive me a little batty, but I try really hard and I do not want to resort to name calling. I want to be as objective as possible. Apple does some good stuff and they do some bad stuff.

For instance. I love the new iPad Pro, but it is an art piece. I do not have long finger nails, so picking it up off of a table is a pain in the butt as that camera dimple is the only way to get under it due to the slap sided design. I ended up sliding a co-workers new iPad Pro across their desk and cringed. Do not get me started on the fact that the only way you can currently charge the Pencil is stick it on the top of the device, which precludes a lot of protective case designs from fully insuring that your rather expensive iPad Pro does not bite the dust if it hits the floor.

I was in terror for three days while I tried to find a case for my new iPhone XR. I ended up buying an interim case at Wal-mart to protect it until I got the glass screen protector and a Spigen clear bumper case around it.

That being said, if you try to take my AirPods away from me, you take your life into your own hands. I wish everything was a little cheaper than it is. I wish Tim Cook and Jony Ive cared a bit more about the Mac than I think they do. I sure hope Apple realizes that is a lot of life left in the Mac while it tries to get us to live the iPad dream. I hope Apple realizes that pro level horsepower is only as good as the pro level apps they give us in that shiny new iPad Pro.

Thanks again!

 

[Dave245]

With there being no update this year, I wonder if the iMac will get a redesign next year?

Thinner bezels and reduced volume but still the same screen size
Face ID?
T2 or T3 chip?

I don’t know what else they could do to make it a redesign but I think it would be nice for them to give the iMac some love, especially ow that the new MacBook Air is out and they updated the Mac mini, about the only macs to note get redesigns at this point are the iMac and the Mac Pro. Maybe we could see new ones announced in April or at WWDC 2019.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Still want to know what Ming meant by "display performance upgrade" coming to the iMac. Maybe that was nothing or a scrapped plan.

 

[Wags]

With there being no update this year, I wonder if the iMac will get a redesign next year?

Thinner bezels and reduced volume but still the same screen size
Face ID?
T2 or T3 chip?

I don’t know what else they could do to make it a redesign but I think it would be nice for them to give the iMac some love, especially ow that the new MacBook Air is out and they updated the Mac mini, about the only macs to note get redesigns at this point are the iMac and the Mac Pro. Maybe we could see new ones announced in April or at WWDC 2019.

Need upgrade ASAP. Could have easily given it a processor upgrade to 6 core and would scream. So not sure if held back because of all other releases or design changes.

 

[Dave245]

Need upgrade ASAP. Could have easily given it a processor upgrade to 6 core and would scream. So not sure if held back because of all other releases or design changes.

My late 2012 iMac is still going but I could do with updgrading at some point, especially since the late 2012 iMac isn’t even retina, now there’s 5K iMacs

I will upgrade when Apple update the iMacs with maybe a design change but also if they were to put 6 core specs in that would be a beast.

The current iMacs have a graphics card that maxes out at 8GB, will this be even higher when Apple update them?

 

[Zdigital2015]

My late 2012 iMac is still going but I could do with upgrading at some point, especially since the late 2012 iMac isn’t even retina, now there’s 5K iMacs

I will upgrade when Apple update the iMacs with maybe a design change but also if they were to put 6 core specs in that would be a beast.

The current iMacs have a graphics card that maxes out at 8GB, will this be even higher when Apple update them?

Assuming that Apple goes with the RX 3060, 3070 and 3080, the RX3080 tops out at 8GB as far as has been reported. For the cards in the rumored price range ($150-$250), 16GB of GDDRAM is a luxury and not a necessity, so I would not expect to see any BTO option beyond an 8GB card for the iMac, with a 16GB Vega 2 reserved for the next iMac Pro revision.

Given that Apple has postponed any new iMac until 2019m I suspect we will see 9th Gen on the next rev of the iMac, which would mean 8c/8t and 8c/16t. Depending on how far along the rumored Comet Lake-S revision is from production, we could possibly even see 10c/10t next year. I doubt we will see it in an iMac, but one can hope. Here's to an exciting 2019.

Source: https://www.extremetech.com/computi...lake-s-rumored-to-pack-10-cores-debut-on-14nm

 

[danwells]

The new midrange AMD graphics cards are quite a decent possibility, and seem relatively likely.

Here's a guess for the 27" (WWDC 2019 or around then) - how many people will bite?

Processors available up to Core i9-9900k (no overclocking, of course) - one thing Apple is waiting for is the base-level processors to go with the high-end 9th Gen that are already available

Radeon RX 3070 standard, 3080 as an upgrade on top model. Possibly a 3060 standard (no upgrades) on the lower end 27" model. 21" probably gets either badge-engineered versions of current GPUs (possibly including what are now 27" GPUs) or mobile Vega from MBP.

16 GB soldered RAM standard, 32 or 64 GB upgrade options (64 GB on top model only). If we're lucky, it's upgradeable by pulling the screen off instead of soldered (if we're really lucky, it's (16)/32/64/128 (low model is 16/32 while top model is 32/64/128, but you'll pay through the nose for 128 GB).

512 GB/1/2/4 TB drives (the 21" will get a 256 GB drive standard, and no access to the 2 TB and 4 TB options). The lower-end 27" may be stuck with the 256 /512/1 TB configuration, or it may get 512/1/2 with the top model getting 1/2/4 TB with some possibility of a very expensive 8 TB option. Drives are either soldered or Apple proprietary

T2, of course.

Modest redesign that keeps the chin and bezel (Space Gray for sure, redesigned cooling system, maybe something like better speakers). Modest display bump - more brightness but NOT OLED or anything else big.

Oh, heck - let's give it Face ID (MacBook Pro got it on the same day).

27" pricing.

6 core i5, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD and a Radeon 3070 for $2599 (there's probably a ~$2199 model with a slightly slower i5, a 3060 and a 256 GB SSD but limited upgrades available).

9900K, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Radeon 3080 for $3599. 64 GB is +$700, 2 TB drive is +$600, 4 TB drive is +$1400


And One More Thing - iMac Pro goes to 32" 8K (or maybe 6K or 7K - remember that 5K isn't a standard anywhere outside of iMacs, although it IS a double-density version of a standard 27" monitor). iMac Pro gets up to 22 cores, starts at 10 cores. Certainly gets 8 TB SSD option (if you have to ask, you can't afford it), new AMD GPUs and probably 256 GB RAM option with 64 GB possibly standard. Takes a significant price bump and starts at $5999.

Mac Pro at $6499 to start, gets 14 core CPU to start with options to 28 and maybe dual CPU options, high-end GPU (not standard PCIe - no NVIDIA), 2/4/8 TB SSD (T2 controlled, but has two or four M.2 slots to add your choice of PCIe SSD as storage drives - won't boot MacOS from anything but the Apple drive).

You do get a standard PCIe slot with the Mac Pro, but it's x4 - they're bound and determined to sideline GeForces. The 16x (or better)GPU IS replaceable, but only with custom Apple models. 6 TB3 ports on 3 buses. RAM options (6-channel, 12 slots) range from 48 to 384 GB, and are user-installable.

Not only is the starting price $6499, options quickly push it into the stratosphere (that 8 TB SSD is a $3000 option if not more, and the 28 core processor adds $4000). If you're dumb enough to buy RAM from Apple on a user-upgradeable machine, 384 GB is a $6500 upgrade. The top GPU may be a $5000 upgrade, although there will be intermediate choices. Dual processors could add $7000 or more if they're 28-cores. Easy to push over $15,000 without going crazy, $20,000 configuration is high-end, $25,000-$30,000 possible with insane options. It's possible to get a HP Z6 (only their second highest-end workstation) close to $20,000 before using dual CPUs, dual graphics or the 28-core CPU.

 

[Cashmonee]

The new midrange AMD graphics cards are quite a decent possibility, and seem relatively likely.

Here's a guess for the 27" (WWDC 2019 or around then) - how many people will bite?

Processors available up to Core i9-9900k (no overclocking, of course) - one thing Apple is waiting for is the base-level processors to go with the high-end 9th Gen that are already available

Radeon RX 3070 standard, 3080 as an upgrade on top model. Possibly a 3060 standard (no upgrades) on the lower end 27" model. 21" probably gets either badge-engineered versions of current GPUs (possibly including what are now 27" GPUs) or mobile Vega from MBP.

16 GB soldered RAM standard, 32 or 64 GB upgrade options (64 GB on top model only). If we're lucky, it's upgradeable by pulling the screen off instead of soldered (if we're really lucky, it's (16)/32/64/128 (low model is 16/32 while top model is 32/64/128, but you'll pay through the nose for 128 GB).

512 GB/1/2/4 TB drives (the 21" will get a 256 GB drive standard, and no access to the 2 TB and 4 TB options). The lower-end 27" may be stuck with the 256 /512/1 TB configuration, or it may get 512/1/2 with the top model getting 1/2/4 TB with some possibility of a very expensive 8 TB option. Drives are either soldered or Apple proprietary

T2, of course.

Modest redesign that keeps the chin and bezel (Space Gray for sure, redesigned cooling system, maybe something like better speakers). Modest display bump - more brightness but NOT OLED or anything else big.

Oh, heck - let's give it Face ID (MacBook Pro got it on the same day).

27" pricing.

6 core i5, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD and a Radeon 3070 for $2599 (there's probably a ~$2199 model with a slightly slower i5, a 3060 and a 256 GB SSD but limited upgrades available).

9900K, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Radeon 3080 for $3599. 64 GB is +$700, 2 TB drive is +$600, 4 TB drive is +$1400


And One More Thing - iMac Pro goes to 32" 8K (or maybe 6K or 7K - remember that 5K isn't a standard anywhere outside of iMacs, although it IS a double-density version of a standard 27" monitor). iMac Pro gets up to 22 cores, starts at 10 cores. Certainly gets 8 TB SSD option (if you have to ask, you can't afford it), new AMD GPUs and probably 256 GB RAM option with 64 GB possibly standard. Takes a significant price bump and starts at $5999.

Mac Pro at $6499 to start, gets 14 core CPU to start with options to 28 and maybe dual CPU options, high-end GPU (not standard PCIe - no NVIDIA), 2/4/8 TB SSD (T2 controlled, but has two or four M.2 slots to add your choice of PCIe SSD as storage drives - won't boot MacOS from anything but the Apple drive).

You do get a standard PCIe slot with the Mac Pro, but it's x4 - they're bound and determined to sideline GeForces. The 16x (or better)GPU IS replaceable, but only with custom Apple models. 6 TB3 ports on 3 buses. RAM options (6-channel, 12 slots) range from 48 to 384 GB, and are user-installable.

Not only is the starting price $6499, options quickly push it into the stratosphere (that 8 TB SSD is a $3000 option if not more, and the 28 core processor adds $4000). If you're dumb enough to buy RAM from Apple on a user-upgradeable machine, 384 GB is a $6500 upgrade. The top GPU may be a $5000 upgrade, although there will be intermediate choices. Dual processors could add $7000 or more if they're 28-cores. Easy to push over $15,000 without going crazy, $20,000 configuration is high-end, $25,000-$30,000 possible with insane options. It's possible to get a HP Z6 (only their second highest-end workstation) close to $20,000 before using dual CPUs, dual graphics or the 28-core CPU.

This was a fun read. I like it!

The only thing I think you are a bit optimistic on is the SSD size. I think there will definitely be a 128 GB version. I also think the base 27" will come in at $1999. The only other thing would be a renaming of the GPUs since Apple seems to usually have some custom GPU. For example, Radeon Pro 3060.

So, if Apple were to release a 9th-gen 6-core i5, with a 512 GB or 1 TB SSD, 8 GB of upgradable RAM, and an equivalent GPU to something like the RX 3080 in the neighborhood of $2500, I would seriously consider it. If the RAM is not upgradable, then I would want to see the same configuration with 32 GB clock in at $2999. I think more likely an i5/1TB/32GB will be over $3500, but I can dream right?!

One interesting thought on pricing is that they have a definite ceiling I think. They can't go much past the $4000 mark for a reasonably spec'd machine without getting too close to iMac Pro territory. Right now the i5/1TB/32GB is at $3500, so I don't know how they will be able to raise the price and keep the i7 (especially if they offer two of them) far enough away from a base iMac Pro. Although, I guess Apple's feelings wouldn't be hurt too much if people opted to spend more on the iMac Pro.

 

[BigBoy2018]

This was a fun read. I like it!

The only thing I think you are a bit optimistic on is the SSD size. I think there will definitely be a 128 GB version. I also think the base 27" will come in at $1999. The only other thing would be a renaming of the GPUs since Apple seems to usually have some custom GPU. For example, Radeon Pro 3060.

So, if Apple were to release a 9th-gen 6-core i5, with a 512 GB or 1 TB SSD, 8 GB of upgradable RAM, and an equivalent GPU to something like the RX 3080 in the neighborhood of $2500, I would seriously consider it. If the RAM is not upgradable, then I would want to see the same configuration with 32 GB clock in at $2999. I think more likely an i5/1TB/32GB will be over $3500, but I can dream right?!

One interesting thought on pricing is that they have a definite ceiling I think. They can't go much past the $4000 mark for a reasonably spec'd machine without getting too close to iMac Pro territory. Right now the i5/1TB/32GB is at $3500, so I don't know how they will be able to raise the price and keep the i7 (especially if they offer two of them) far enough away from a base iMac Pro. Although, I guess Apple's feelings wouldn't be hurt too much if people opted to spend more on the iMac Pro.

It always gets me when people say Apple won't release 'product x' because it might impinge on sales of 'product y'. If they thought that way, then their wouldn't be 2 different iPhone X's, and there certainly wouldn't be a 2018 MacBook Air for sale right next to a current model 12 inch MacBook.

 

[Dave245]

It always gets me when people say Apple won't release 'product x' because it might impinge on sales of 'product y'. If they thought that way, then their wouldn't be 2 different iPhone X's, and there certainly wouldn't be a 2018 MacBook Air for sale right next to a current model 12 inch MacBook.

I think it’s because a lot of people are stuck thinking of the old Apple, this isn’t that Apple anymore. I would love to see the iMac get the new space grey colour, I know it doesn’t add anything in terms of specs it would just be a nice thing to be able to choose, similar to how it’s available on the MacBook Pro.

 

[Cashmonee]

It always gets me when people say Apple won't release 'product x' because it might impinge on sales of 'product y'. If they thought that way, then their wouldn't be 2 different iPhone X's, and there certainly wouldn't be a 2018 MacBook Air for sale right next to a current model 12 inch MacBook.

Good point. Gone are the days when Apple had a product lineup that made sense. They seem to be going the way of many other companies with overlapping products. The plethora of similarly featured iPhones and MacBooks show they would not mind having an iMac and iMac Pro occupy the same price space.

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

Space grey?

Heaven forbid!!! Still believe next model June 2019. For release October to be known as the 'late 2019'.

 

[tomscott1988]

I can’t see the Mac Pro starting at that sort of money. It’s a headless Mac and they never were stratospheric at baseline.

It’s all good speculating but I doubt any of those things will happen at all.

I don’t think we will see an iMac Pro refresh at all. The iMac will get a bump doubt they will even give it new cooling.

 

[Tor Eckman]

There is no reason a company like Apple cannot put out an annual update to their computer lineup. They are among the richest companies in history. This isn't the good ole days when they were the underdog. I am honestly baffled at how many people still defend them when they are selling old hardware at full price, and each revision is worse for the customer.

Except it's not. The current iMac would serve the average user well for the next 10 years -- especially if Apple would stop crippling older hardware with useless bloated OS "updates." True power users who would see any benefit whatsoever from a speed bump from hardware have to be like 1 in 100 at best. For that small minority of users there are other apple offerings.

 

[danwells]

They do have a price ceiling - one reason I speculatively bumped the iMac Pro by $1000 was to give them more room for high-end iMacs. I think they'll keep the highest vaguely standard configuration (max processor, max graphics, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD) around $3499 - $3599. They may try to keep the same with a 2 TB SSD to $3999. There will be more expensive configurations, but only as very expensive RAM/SSD bumps (and there will be a $1000 - $2000 difference from them to the least expensive iMac Pro that has similar RAM and storage).

As for the very expensive Mac Pro, the Mac Pro has always started around 150% of the most expensive iMac (other than very expensive RAM/storage bumps that few people order). It's generally been worse hardware per dollar than any other Mac (yes, a couple of cheesegraters around 2010 were exceptions to that). If there's going to be a big iMac at $3599 prior to loading up on RAM and storage, I wouldn't expect the Mac Pro under $5499.

Then there's the additional complication of the iMac Pro, which wasn't around when the Mac Pro was last refreshed. Apple doesn't like to make two desktops with near-identical hardware, although the 21" iMac and the Mini can sometimes be an exception. I suspect they'll try to differentiate the Mac Pro with superior CPUs and GPUs, which means some version of Xeon SP (not cheap)...

 

[Cashmonee]

Except it's not. The current iMac would serve the average user well for the next 10 years -- especially if Apple would stop crippling older hardware with useless bloated OS "updates." True power users who would see any benefit whatsoever from a speed bump from hardware have to be like 1 in 100 at best. For that small minority of users there are other apple offerings.

Perhaps. That does not change the fact that Apple are charging full price for 2 year old hardware. Also, you allude to Apple crippling perfectly good hardware through OS updates, which means this current hardware will have a shortened life for those buying now versus a year and a half ago even though the price paid was the same. There is no legitimate reason for Apple to be selling the iMac with the current hardware at the launch price. They should either update the hardware or lower the price.