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When will the iMac be refreshed?

  • September/October Event

  • November/December Event

  • March/April Event

  • WWDC 2019


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kaintxu

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2018
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A
Since I'd spec the 512GB SSD, that results in a choice between $2099 (i5-8500), $2299 (i5-8600), or $2399 (i5-9600K). I don't need, and am no longer at a point where I embrace Apple enough to give it more money for an i9 or Vega.

The $100 difference between the top two models effectively eliminates the middle model, given the newer processor and better video. Will have to wait for benchmarks and user experience to see if the cooling system has been improved to account for a 95W processor.

Even the $300 difference between the base and top isn't a huge step to climb, considering they're all at $2K plus already. Apple'e product managers and their pricing strategies have struck again.

I'm exactly on the same boat here. For me is a £120 difference between mid tier and top tier, which I Think could be worth it. The only reason I'm holding is to see reviews on heat and noise, as the 8600 is a 65W while the 9600k is a 95W and we all know what happened with the 2017 i7.

My other worry is that while I've been considering the vega48, I'm not sure if it's worth the £400 price tag. I haven't seen many reviews of it so I don't really know how good it is. Is it really that much better than a pro 580? If we were talking about vega56, then maybe yes, but £400 is roughly what a nvidia 2070 costs, which I think is far above?
 
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BigBoy2018

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Oct 23, 2018
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Im not sure why you simply assume that i have no experience comparing side to side and that ive “bought into the hype.” My parents, who are educators, the macbook pros that they get come with slow ass **** 5400rpm sata drives that are user serviceable—they’ve swapped the hard drive out for a SATA SSD and their computers still arent anywhere near as fast as my pretty terrible base model 2015 13” macbook pro with soldered 128gb SSD. Sure, that might have to do with a myriad of other factors, so no i do not have a completely round perception of this issue, but I think it’s fairly clear that a PCIe SSD is much faster

Youre andcdotal experience differs from my anecdotal experience.
Everything I’ve read, and experienced, is that different read/write speeds from one ssd to another offer relatively little payoff in real world use.

And yes, the percieved speed difference between the systems you mnetioned assuredly do have a ton to do with the myriad other difffereces between the two computers.
 
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Internet Enzyme

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Feb 21, 2016
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Youre andcdotal experience differs from my anecdotal experience.
Everything I’ve read, and experienced, is that different read/write speeds from one ssd to another offer relatively little payoff in real world use.

And yes, the percieved speed difference between the systems you mnetioned assuredly do have a ton to do with the myriad other difffereces between the two computers.

Yeah, anecdotal experiences are innately flawed, being poisoned by perception; but then again—they’re largely all we have. And what ive found is that a computer’s storage is the most significant and noticeable qualitative element that more or less defines real world performance. I don’t necessarily have proof that PCIe is noticeably better than SATA SSDs in real world usage, but I’m not going to take that chance and the numbers seem to support that.
 

Internet Enzyme

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Feb 21, 2016
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I'm exactly on the same boat here. For me is a £120 difference between mid tier and top tier, which I Think could be worth it. The only reason I'm holding is to see reviews on heat and noise, as the 8600 is a 65W while the 9600k is a 95W and we all know what happened with the 2017 i7.

My other worry is that while I've been considering the vega48, I'm not sure if it's worth the £400 price tag. I haven't seen many reviews of it so I don't really know how good it is. Is it really that much better than a pro 580? If we were talking about vega56, then maybe yes, but £400 is roughly what a nvidia 2070 costs, which I think is far above?

Going from a 580 to a Vega 48 is certainly not worth $405 but if that is what you want that is what they make you pay. In the iMac purchasing game you are essentially going to get scammed no matter what you do, but optioning up only accentuates how much youre getting ****ed. im not advocating against optioning up, however. because you might be in much deeper **** if you cheap out on the $400 and then end up getting a computer that regularly disappoints. This is the trouble with buying an Apple computer. I would personally almost certainly go for the Vega 48, because while eGPU is certainly a thing, I would not hedge my bets on that bandwidth limited band-aid. perhaps implementing an eGPU solution between an external display in the future would be a solid path. CPU is a harder thing. Most tasks I feel will not be noticeably faster with the 8-core i9. If youre buying an expensive computer as a pro-sumer hobbyist, you might not be consistently utilizing all the power you have available and just want it at tap when and if you need it. I don’t think the 6-core i5 would let you down much, but there are definitely scenarios where it will vs the 8-core i9. Are you ok with having your iMac let you down in a few sparse scenarios if it means saving $360? Thats a tough question to answer. I personally loaded my iMac configuration all the way up with an i7 7700k and an r580, and then added two 16GB dimms in for 40GB of RAM. I can’t truly say if I made a right or a wrong decision, I can just say that’s a decision I made.
 
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kaintxu

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2018
196
78
Edinburgh
Going from a 580 to a Vega 48 is certainly not worth $405 but if that is what you want that is what they make you pay. In the iMac purchasing game you are essentially going to get scammed no matter what you do, but optioning up only accentuates how much youre getting ****ed. im not advocating against optioning up, however. because you might be in much deeper **** if you cheap out on the $400 and then end up getting a computer that regularly disappoints. This is the trouble with buying an Apple computer. I would personally almost certainly go for the Vega 48, because while eGPU is certainly a thing, I would not hedge my bets on that bandwidth limited band-aid. perhaps implementing an eGPU solution between an external display in the future would be a solid path. CPU is a harder thing. Most tasks I feel will not be noticeably faster with the 8-core i9. If youre buying an expensive computer as a pro-sumer hobbyist, you might not be consistently utilizing all the power you have available and just want it at tap when and if you need it. I don’t think the 6-core i5 would let you down much, but there are definitely scenarios where it will vs the 8-core i9. Are you ok with having your iMac let you down in a few sparse scenarios if it means saving $360? Thats a tough question to answer. I personally loaded my iMac configuration all the way up with an i7 7700k and an r580, and then added two 16GB dimms in for 40GB of RAM. I can’t truly say if I made a right or a wrong decision, I can just say that’s a decision I made.

Good analysis. I will certainly not be upset if my iMac lets me down a few times. I'm currently on an 2011 iMac that can't even boot, which was on 8GB and no SSD, so the upgrade to the 6 core i5, probably another 16 RAM to have 24, maybe 32 for 40, a 580x will be like a rocket for me.

I'm kind of thinking of having something that will have well and last me another 7ish years like the one I have, as I don't give it intensive use to justify changing every 2 yeras.

I think I will pass on the i5 and really need to make the call on the vega48. While I know it's not worth that price tag, need to know if it's a decent enough upgrade to justify (over)spending money on it or not
 

Internet Enzyme

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Good analysis. I will certainly not be upset if my iMac lets me down a few times. I'm currently on an 2011 iMac that can't even boot, which was on 8GB and no SSD, so the upgrade to the 6 core i5, probably another 16 RAM to have 24, maybe 32 for 40, a 580x will be like a rocket for me.

I'm kind of thinking of having something that will have well and last me another 7ish years like the one I have, as I don't give it intensive use to justify changing every 2 yeras.

I think I will pass on the i5 and really need to make the call on the vega48. While I know it's not worth that price tag, need to know if it's a decent enough upgrade to justify (over)spending money on it or not

My first computer i personally owned was a base model 13 inch 2015 macbook pro. It was a 5th gen 2.7ghz dual core config with 8gb of ram and a 128gb ssd. I simply couldnt afford any upcharges: it was a stretch even purchasing the computer, at $1000. What I found from that experience is that a dedicated GPU, a decent sized internal SSD, and at least 16gb of ram are necessary baselines for any computer. I know that, for me, the highest spec GPU option will be always be necessary for my main computing device. And with Apple, the highest end gpu option usually isnt even that impressive. The radeon 580 is a fine card, but in the gaming pc market, the 580 is widely considered a fairly low-midrange budget card. It will play games at 1080p pretty well, but it’s by no means a powerhouse. The 580 was a no-brainer for me, because I’ve already found its limitations. With the iMac, RAM is no problem. Get the 8gb model and add in a couple 16gb dimms—don’t get 8gb sticks, because if you ever want to go up to 64gb of ram, you will have to swap out every dimm in the computer. CPU intensive workloads don’t seem to ever become noticeably faster with higher end CPUs, as weird as that sounds. 8-cores is a pretty big deal, but when manipulating things in real-time I think there are simply limitations to UI and code bases that make higher end CPUs usually not any noticeably faster than their lower end counterparts. Usually a lower end CPU will just slow you down, not completely impede certain workflows, although this depends of course on how low end you go and what kind of software you use. I think configuring a 512gb internal ssd sku with vega 48 and the i5 6-core with 8gb of ram (through the education store) would be the decision I would probably make these days. However, we dont really know how much faster the vega is quite yet, so maybe I would wait until someone like Max Yuryev does a comparative benchmark
 
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kaintxu

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2018
196
78
Edinburgh
My first computer i personally owned was a base model 13 inch 2015 macbook pro. It was a 5th gen 2.7ghz dual core config with 8gb of ram and a 128gb ssd. I simply couldnt afford any upcharges: it was a stretch even purchasing the computer, at $1000. What I found from that experience is that a dedicated GPU, a large internal hard drive, and at least 16gb of ram are necessary baselines for any computer. I know that, for me, the highest spec GPU option will be always be necessary for my main computing device. And with Apple, the highest end gpu option usually isnt even that impressive. The radeon 580 is a fine card, but in the gaming pc market, the 580 is widely considered a fairly low-midrange budget card. It will play games at 1080p pretty well, but it’s by no means a powerhouse. The 580 was a no-brainer for me, because I’ve already found its limitations. With the iMac, RAM is no problem. Get the 8gb model and add in a couple 16gb dimms—don’t get 8gb sticks, because if you ever want to go up to 64gb of ram, you will have to swap out every dimm in the computer. CPU intensive workloads don’t seem to ever become noticeably faster with higher end CPUs, as weird as that sounds. 8-cores is a pretty big deal, but when manipulating things in real-time I think there are simply limitations to UI and code bases that make higher end CPUs usually not any noticeably faster than their lower end counterparts. Usually a lower end CPU will just slow you down, not completely impede certain workflows, although this depends of course on how low end you go and what kind of software you use. I think configuring a 512gb internal ssd sku with vega 48 and the i5 6-core with 8gb of ram (through the education store) would be the decision I would probably make these days. However, we dont really know how much faster the vega is quite yet, so maybe I would wait until someone like Max Yuryev does a comparative benchmark

I'm on the same spot as you, kinda. While I think a dedicated GPU is a must, the large storage is not so much for me. Of course, 128 is totally discarded. I will be getting 512, which is not a lot, but I could probably manage with 256, especially with the change from a USB 2.0 iMac I currently have to a USB 3.0 which will mean much faster data transfer to my external storage.

The CPU and the RAM, to be honest, I've never been on the top end of these, always medium, and have usually worked well though of course, ageing is noticed fast. I know I'm not going to need 64Gb RAM, so if I ever wanted to upgrade, those 2 8GB + 2x16GB would give me 48GB which is more than I would ever need and saves me £100 right now which go fine towards the vega 48. As for the CPU, I just want one that does not overheat, is the i9 won't overheat, then I will start thinking if it's worth the extra £60, but I don't think so.
 

Internet Enzyme

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 21, 2016
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I'm on the same spot as you, kinda. While I think a dedicated GPU is a must, the large storage is not so much for me. Of course, 128 is totally discarded. I will be getting 512, which is not a lot, but I could probably manage with 256, especially with the change from a USB 2.0 iMac I currently have to a USB 3.0 which will mean much faster data transfer to my external storage.

The CPU and the RAM, to be honest, I've never been on the top end of these, always medium, and have usually worked well though of course, ageing is noticed fast. I know I'm not going to need 64Gb RAM, so if I ever wanted to upgrade, those 2 8GB + 2x16GB would give me 48GB which is more than I would ever need and saves me £100 right now which go fine towards the vega 48. As for the CPU, I just want one that does not overheat, is the i9 won't overheat, then I will start thinking if it's worth the extra £60, but I don't think so.

512GB is a good minimum amount for storage, because that allows you ample room for a Windows partition. I also have an external 1TB PCIe SSD attached via Thunderbolt 3. If you buy through the Education Store, you can get the 3.7GHz 6-core config with a Radeon Pro Vega 48, 512GB SSD, and 8GB of RAM costing at $2594. With RAM upgrades and tax factored in, expect to spend around $3K. Also, I would strongly consider going for the Magic Trackpad instead of the Magic Mouse: It's a great pairing, using a traditional scroll wheel mouse with a Magic Trackpad. Also, if you aren't planning on using your own keyboard, going for the Number Pad keyboard is a good option as well.
 
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Internet Enzyme

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Feb 21, 2016
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that sounds great.

What is the education store. How much discount do you get?

Scroll all the way to the very bottom of Apple’s webpage, open For Education, then click on Shop For College. Now there’s a banner at the top of the website that says Education Store Home and you can browse the website as normal, just with lower prices for Macs and iPads
 

Apple Mac Daz

macrumors 68040
Jun 2, 2011
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3,730
Manchester
Scroll all the way to the very bottom of Apple’s webpage, open For Education, then click on Shop For College. Now there’s a banner at the top of the website that says Education Store Home and you can browse the website as normal, just with lower prices for Macs and iPads
You need to be in education thou and pretty sure you need to prove it
 

Internet Enzyme

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Feb 21, 2016
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You need to be in education thou and pretty sure you need to prove it

When i bought my imac through the education store i just entered my billing and shipping info and it worked. I dont recall ever being asked to verify my student status, which i couldve done. I know it sounds weird, but im nearly positive that i just used my apple id email and my standard payment method and thay was literally it
 

TheIntruder

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Jul 2, 2008
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The US Edu store doesn't ask for proof of student status, but the sales agreement gives Apple the right to perform audits and retroactively charge for the difference if it isn't valid.

The recently established veterans program added a verification requirement shortly after it began, according to someone I know.

There are also the Corporate EPP programs and Gov. employee stores, but those discounts are minimal.

Apple employees can give family/friends a flat 15% (on everything in the store, including AppleCare), and larger discounts/allowances applied a restricted number of items over a period of time/quantity.
 
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wmagnum1

macrumors member
Mar 11, 2008
85
43
When i bought my imac through the education store i just entered my billing and shipping info and it worked. I dont recall ever being asked to verify my student status, which i couldve done. I know it sounds weird, but im nearly positive that i just used my apple id email and my standard payment method and thay was literally it
This is correct, however, the discount applied will end up being the same if you purchased from B&H or Adorama (outside NY/NJ). The education discount will out wipe most states' sales tax that you would've had to pay.
 
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kaintxu

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2018
196
78
Edinburgh
This is correct, however, the discount applied will end up being the same if you purchased from B&H or Adorama (outside NY/NJ). The education discount will out wipe most states' sales tax that you would've had to pay.

We are not all in the States :D
 

TheIntruder

macrumors 68000
Jul 2, 2008
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We are not all in the States :D

Even for those who are, that loophole is gradually disappearing, due to the Wayfair ruling. As states react and get their affairs in order, online sales tax collection will come to every state that has a sales tax. The state governments aren't going to leave that money on the table.

The next domino to fall, and it's a big one, is California. In just a few days.
 
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