iPad Pro No file system - don't call it a "computer"

[DNichter]

I keep seeing a lot of posts about using the touch screen while connected to the keyboard. I agree that this is cumbersome and takes too much effort to be doing regularly with operational tasks, so I see Apple's point. I don't know if there are a ton of people using an iPad or a touchscreen Windows computer for consistent operational tasks though. I get the complaints, but I don't think it's very common, at all. The iPad is best for creatives, editing (even that feels like it could be challenging), management, and executives. In those cases, keyboard shortcuts work really well and I rarely find myself reaching up to touch the screen when I sit down to draft proposals, do emails, or review productivity reports. I'd like trackpad support in some situations, but it isn't needed for me currently. The file system thing, I'll never understand - cloud access is cheap, reliable, and acts the exact same way. Unless you are working with a ton of large files, then I am assuming you have them housed on the iPad itself, or you are likely not using an iPad (most likely scenario). So all in all, I think what the iPad is designed to do as a computer, it does really well. I expect big changes in iOS 13, but it's absolutely a computer today.

 

[Nozuka]

"No file system - don't call it a "computer" "

Well it has always been a computer. A file system is not part of the definition.
(And it does have a file system. It's just lacking a way to easily explore it.)

computer
a programmable electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Mainframes, desktop and laptop computers, tablets, and smartphones are some of the different types of computers.

 

[flur]

I keep seeing a lot of posts about using the touch screen while connected to the keyboard. I agree that this is cumbersome and takes too much effort to be doing regularly with operational tasks, so I see Apple's point. I don't know if there are a ton of people using an iPad or a touchscreen Windows computer for consistent operational tasks though. I get the complaints, but I don't think it's very common, at all. The iPad is best for creatives, editing (even that feels like it could be challenging), management, and executives. In those cases, keyboard shortcuts work really well and I rarely find myself reaching up to touch the screen when I sit down to draft proposals, do emails, or review productivity reports. I'd like trackpad support in some situations, but it isn't needed for me currently. The file system thing, I'll never understand - cloud access is cheap, reliable, and acts the exact same way. Unless you are working with a ton of large files, then I am assuming you have them housed on the iPad itself, or you are likely not using an iPad (most likely scenario). So all in all, I think what the iPad is designed to do as a computer, it does really well. I expect big changes in iOS 13, but it's absolutely a computer today.

Cloud access is only reliable if you always have a data connection. That’s not everyone. If you travel a lot or live in the middle of nowhere (I do both) you may find yourself without internet on the regular, or with a slow internet connection that makes downloading and uploading large files a real pain.

Also, on my Surface Pro, I work heavily in Excel. If I had to touch the screen every time I needed to do an operation, I don’t think I’d get anything done. I’ve used Excel on my iPad and while everything can be done via touch, selecting a thousand rows via touch is a precarious operation that you may have to repeat several times before you get it right, whereas it takes seconds with a touchpad or a mouse. So I absolutely get the need for a touchpad for heavy work in certain situations, and I’m at a loss as to why Apple doesn’t just put one on the ASK.

 

[sparksd]

Cloud access is only reliable if you always have a data connection. That’s not everyone. If you travel a lot or live in the middle of nowhere (I do both) you may find yourself without internet on the regular, or with a slow internet connection that makes downloading and uploading large files a real pain.

This. I don't count on Internet access when I travel - it's either totally nonexistent or really poor in a lot of the places I've gone.

 

[DNichter]

Cloud access is only reliable if you always have a data connection. That’s not everyone. If you travel a lot or live in the middle of nowhere (I do both) you may find yourself without internet on the regular, or with a slow internet connection that makes downloading and uploading large files a real pain.

Also, on my Surface Pro, I work heavily in Excel. If I had to touch the screen every time I needed to do an operation, I don’t think I’d get anything done. I’ve used Excel on my iPad and while everything can be done via touch, selecting a thousand rows via touch is a precarious operation that you may have to repeat several times before you get it right, whereas it takes seconds with a touchpad or a mouse. So I absolutely get the need for a touchpad for heavy work in certain situations, and I’m at a loss as to why Apple doesn’t just put one on the ASK.

Yea, that makes sense. I guess I am just used to regularly having a data connection that I don't think about it. If I am traveling, I'll usually just download any files I am working on. I get it's somewhat of a compromise for some, but I don't even think about it. Totally agree on your Excel point. As I mentioned, I wouldn't want to do any sort of operational tasks on an iPad. I think trackpad support will come one day, but it will be different than what we are used to. It wouldn't be very Apple like to just add standard trackpad support.

 

[fivetoedsloth]

It wouldn't be very Apple like to just add standard trackpad support.

What would be very Apple-like would be to finally add track pad support, and then act like they invented it. Like when they finally added copy and paste support to the iPhone. Hm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2009/03/17/iphone-finally-gets-copy-and-paste/

Apple already has the best trackpad in the business. I think if they were to add it as is to the iPad, they could claim victory. Having used a trackpad/mouse/pen in combination with touch for a year and a half on my surface pro 2017, I refuse to believe this is the usability problem that Apple claims it is. I find myself using the trackpad for many things, and touch for some things (often zooming and panning or selecting buttons). I find the hybrid usage really efficient with apps like InDesign where I can easily touch and drag elements to rearrange them much more quickly than I can with a mouse.

Apple speaks out both sides of their mouths by promoting touch on one device and shunning it on the other. It is an artificial distinction and they know it.

 

[DNichter]

What would be very Apple-like would be to finally add track pad support, and then act like they invented it. Like when they finally added copy and paste support to the iPhone. Hm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2009/03/17/iphone-finally-gets-copy-and-paste/

Apple already has the best trackpad in the business. I think if they were to add it as is to the iPad, they could claim victory. Having used a trackpad/mouse/pen in combination with touch for a year and a half on my surface pro 2017, I refuse to believe this is the usability problem that Apple claims it is. I find myself using the trackpad for many things, and touch for some things (often zooming and panning or selecting buttons). I find the hybrid usage really efficient with apps like InDesign where I can easily touch and drag elements to rearrange them much more quickly than I can with a mouse.

Apple speaks out both sides of their mouths by promoting touch on one device and shunning it on the other. It is an artificial distinction and they know it.

I don't recall them acting like they invented copy and paste, obviously it existed prior to their implementation. I think they are looking at doing things differently, opposed to just slapping trackpad support on iOS, and that is likely why it is taking some time.

 

[RecentlyConverted]

Isn’t it funny how the iPad is supposed to be a “computer” but the simplest way to manage content on it is by connecting to a real computer and using a desktop application?

Great comment.

 

[charlituna]

Really struggle to understand this lack of a file system argument.

It’s simple. Some folks want to do things the way they want to do them and if you don’t let them then you are trash. And after years and years of being able to go into a system and change file names, make folders etc, they can’t handle not being able to so much so that they declare these systems that deny them as toys and such. And anyone that uses one of these ‘toys’ is an idiot that can’t handle a ‘real computer’.
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I think if they were to add it as is to the iPad, they could claim victory. Having used a trackpad/mouse/pen in combination with touch for a year and a half on my surface pro 2017, I refuse to believe this is the usability problem that Apple claims it is.

You’re right, it’s not really a major usability issue. Apple could make it work if they wanted to. They don’t want to. They have been very very clear about this. They are not going to add mouse/trackpad support to iOS and they aren’t going to add touchscreen support to MacOS. Not while Tim Cook is there. So in a few years when he’s retired or died, we’ll see if his successor has different feelings.

 

[redman042]

Really struggle to understand this lack of a file system argument. You can put everything together neatly on Files app or use a 3rd party one such as Readdle documents app. You also have shelf apps to temporary store documents needed for documents or projects. I have everything organised in folders and it keeps up to date in one single place across all my devices. The file system on a MacBook is a mess and takes a lot of time to organise with files all over the place and is very disorganised. Take the desktop for example and Apple needing to implement stacking. So for me, it is a non-issue. However, if it is for you then that is obviously going to be a deal breaker, especially when not connected to the world wide web. You can though download and hold locally documents.

Let me explain. The iPad has a user-accessible file system of sorts, but it's a really limited one with a lot of barriers. Files doesn't actually provide access to the iOS file system; instead it is an isolated layer on top of it and it requires the wonky "share sheet" to move files in between apps, and then you have to deal with highly inconsistent file management UIs in each app. Microsoft Office has one UI for dealing with files, PDF Expert's file UI is entirely different. In contrast, file management in MacOS or Windows is the same for all apps and is completely centralized.

But if the iPad does all you need, and if you've fully adapted to the workflow, you're lucky and should take full advantage of it. The iPad is an outstanding device to work on, when it does what you need. The file management limitations in iOS exist because the OS has strict sandboxing, and that sandboxing is the very reason that iOS doesn't get viruses and rarely gets corrupted.

But for those of us who work on Mac or Windows at work, and deal with project folders with a lot of file types and subfolders, interact heavily with other team members, work with proprietary project management or file sharing software, etc., we already have an efficient workflow based on the capabilities of MacOS or Windows, and in that case it can be really hard (read: slow and frustrating) or even impossible to adapt our entire workflow to iOS. That's my situation.

There are certain project tasks that I can do on an iPad and are even better on an iPad than a Windows machine. For example, if I am reviewing a large PDF, I can load it up on my iPad, grab my Pencil, lean back and review it like a printed document. It's terrific.

But there are lots of other project tasks I often do that perhaps I can move to the iPad, but it's just too slow and convoluted there in comparison to Windows. And there are some that simply won't work on the iPad.

 

[lenard]

"No file system - don't call it a "computer" "

Well it has always been a computer. A file system is not part of the definition.
(And it does have a file system. It's just lacking a way to easily explore it.)

Don’t know why people keep saying it does not have a file system, it DOES. With whatever apps you may be using.
You store your files in any cloud system (icloud, One Drive, Google Drive, Drop Box) and through the Files app you can save and retrieve files at the On My IPad location. I even save and retrieve files between my iPad and my Synology server.

 

[Tha Professor]

I haven’t used a flash drive or an external drive for years now. And I always feel guilty for dumping files in either Desktop, Downloads or Documents. Sorting by the most recent. If file system is the thing that people miss the most from the iPads, then I should probably get one

 

[torana355]

I feel like being on the Mac team at apple is the equivalent to working in the office mailroom while the iPad team takes the window office on the top floor.

Don't forget the iPhone team they there on the top floor too lol

 

[throAU]

Oh just another thing with the whole "no file system no computer" thing.

The first 3 computers I ever used (Vic20, TRS80, C64 - yes, the C64 Disk OS was part of the 1541 drive) had no file systems built in. they were legit computers in their day.

So this whole "no filesystem, no computer" meme is a load of crap.


/getoffmylawn

 

[marc_b]

The file system I don't mind nearly as much as the fact that you can't even open two instances of Word at the same time to see two Word documents without having to resort to some silly workaround (like using 2 different apps).

How they can name anything "pro", when you can't even work on two Word documents at the same time on a 12.9 inch screen is beyond me.

It's a fantastic piece of tech but the software severely limits it, needlessly.

 

[sracer]

Oh just another thing with the whole "no file system no computer" thing.

The first 3 computers I ever used (Vic20, TRS80, C64 - yes, the C64 Disk OS was part of the 1541 drive) had no file systems built in. they were legit computers in their day.

So this whole "no filesystem, no computer" meme is a load of crap.


/getoffmylawn

Depends on your definition of "file system"... because those 3 systems did indeed have file systems. They looked differently than file systems on modern operating systems, but they had file systems.

Besides, computer technology moves forward. If one has to point back to computers from 40 years ago to try to prove a point, then the point is weak.

The "no filesystem, no computer" is lazy shorthand to describe a system-wide filesystem that is universally accessible by the software running on the system. iOS devices don't have that because iOS was designed to be an "app-centric" OS for smartphones... the user searches for the app to perform a function and then within that app selects the data.

Modern desktop OSes are "data-centric"... the user locates the data file and then decides which app to use to interact with the data.

 

[RecentlyConverted]

Modern desktop OSes are "data-centric"... the user locates the data file and then decides which app to use to interact with the data.

Exactly, and that is the setup many of us want on our iPhones and iPads for work, not have to think, did I do that last bit of text in Word, Pages, Notes etc?

I use - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/filebrowser-for-business/id854618029 its the closest I can get to a proper file system. I would have left the ecosystem years ago had it not been for this powerful app.

 

[throAU]

Depends on your definition of "file system"... because those 3 systems did indeed have file systems. They looked differently than file systems on modern operating systems, but they had file systems.

No, the TRS80 (coco 2) did not have a file system. it could load from tape, but there was no concept of a "file".
The 64 had no built in file system, that was part of the 1541 disk drive
The Vic20 was cartridge only

My point is that a computer is not defined by having a filesystem. Your ipad is a computer. Your phone is a computer. Your apple watch is a computer. they have different UI, and under the covers ALL OF THEM have a filesystem anyway. We already have voice activation, tablets, touch screens and with the AR work we're inventing the equivalent of the holodeck.

 

[concept32]

While, this doesn't solve everything, using google drive, dropbox, O365, etc may ease some of the pain. Still, I just looked through my downloads/documents folder and there were a bunch of files there that I opened/edited and saved versions of; or are other media types. Works in some cases, and others the iPad fails. I wish iOS was better and less of a limited OS. Especially now that is "more" than just mobile. Even the Surface Go has Windows on it.

I will not be buying an iPad until the software that runs on it is better, and knowing apple, it will probably be another 2 or 3 years before that happens. Luckily ARM chips will probably be complete power houses by then!

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

I wish iOS was better and less of a limited OS. Especially now that is "more" than just mobile.

I will not be buying an iPad until the software that runs on it is better, and knowing apple, it will probably be another 2 or 3 years before that happens. Luckily ARM chips will probably be complete power houses by then!

I am in the same position: I love the hardware (iPad Pro), but I find the software (iOS) too limiting for my needs. I will come back to Apple when the iPad Pro is powered by "iOS Pro".

Until then, I purchased a Samsung Galaxy Tab S4 which I'm loving: proper file system, proper multi tasking, mouse compatibility, etc. Plus the hardware is pretty strong too: long battery, OLED high-res screen, pen compatibility, etc. The hardware is NOT iPad Pad level, but Android's flexibility grants true laptop-replacement capabilities.

I'm currently hooking a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, with 3-window real multi-tasking, full file management control, etc. Really sweet setup, and I dont need my laptop anymore.

I wish I could do this with my iPad Pro

 

[Momof9]

So I am overcoming the file system. I am using itunes on my daughter’s laptop. I have my new iPP connected with cord. Click on the ipad icon and then “File Sharing”. You will then need to select an app that it will transfer the files to. I chose File Explorer. I can actually Move the folders from within File Explore on the iPad. I think it works decent.

But the greatest thing - I can actually view all the files on my iPad! larger files, I would only see an icon, from the cloud. This will make things a bit easier!!!

 

[PennyThought]

Having just read BusinessInsider Dave Smith's piece why he returned his IPP after 24 hrs...it just underscores yet again, why the ipad is such a niche product and a rather expensive one at that now with this refresh.

If you can make it work for you, have at it.

It's just too limiting a device...the list of shortcomings is considerable (no mouse support, sandbosed apps/data, etc) and if you think ios 13 will somehow usher in some great new features, I'll take you on that bet.

At some point, if BB has a $150 off sale...I'll use my CC points to snag the 11". My ipad 2 is really long-in-the-tooth now for reading my comics.

 

[CipherMe]

[QUOTE=".....What a joke this whole thing has become. iPad "Pro" without any option to organize your files
or connect a drive. How many times did Cook bring "it's the best laptop" thing?[/QUOTE]


Well if you wish to be pedantic over the term "computer" the don't claim it has no files system, it does. It is just that it is not exposed to the user? :>

 

[Momof9]

Having just read BusinessInsider Dave Smith's piece why he returned his IPP after 24 hrs...it just underscores yet again, why the ipad is such a niche product and a rather expensive one at that now with this refresh.

If you can make it work for you, have at it.

It's just too limiting a device...the list of shortcomings is considerable (no mouse support, sandbosed apps/data, etc) and if you think ios 13 will somehow usher in some great new features, I'll take you on that bet.

At some point, if BB has a $150 off sale...I'll use my CC points to snag the 11". My ipad 2 is really long-in-the-tooth now for reading my comics.

I just read the article. I think he quit to easily. Sometimes you need to give a divice more time. He definitely did not try very hard. Yes, I tried doing what he did to highlight a sentence. It IS really easy with the pencil, but not so much with the finger. I just tried using the shift+ arrows and it works good - so you can highlight that way as well when you are writing...

Yes it is about learning a whole new way of doing things. I am a very LONG time Windows user, so no matter if I use MacOS or iOS, it is all different for me. But I have been using the iPhone since December and the iPad Air2 was my 1st iPad. I have used my 2015 iPP more than the Air 2 though. SO I know my way around a bit. But it has been in the past month that I have really worked with only the iPP as my computer.

How is my experience so far??? Well not doing so great, but I am now to uploading 300 GB to my iPP so far. I have a LOT of files I want to add to make it easier for my graphic design. I am actually writing this on my old iPP. One problem - it downloaded ALL my emails, so I am up to about 2700 unread emails on the new iPP. But I think I will be using the new one primarily for graphic design (work) and the old one for email and browsing, games etc. I am sure I will have to try some of the new games when they come out....

 

[alecgold]

-

Can you please tell me, step by step, how to load a 3GB PSD file from my Mac to my iPad and open it in PS (iPad version)?

Can’t you AirDrop it?
Or you could use documents by readlle.
You could also use just this finder app from apple.
I don’t have a psd file, but I just duplicated a 3.86Gb zip file on iCloud in finder.app and then copied it to my iPad. Matter of seconds.

Writing serious code on a iPad? No way afaik.
Doing all of the tasks that 80-90% of the people do on computers? No problem!
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Depends on your definition of "file system"... because those 3 systems did indeed have file systems. They looked differently than file systems on modern operating systems, but they had file systems.

Besides, computer technology moves forward. If one has to point back to computers from 40 years ago to try to prove a point, then the point is weak.

The "no filesystem, no computer" is lazy shorthand to describe a system-wide filesystem that is universally accessible by the software running on the system. iOS devices don't have that because iOS was designed to be an "app-centric" OS for smartphones... the user searches for the app to perform a function and then within that app selects the data.

Modern desktop OSes are "data-centric"... the user locates the data file and then decides which app to use to interact with the data.

If technology would move forward, he couldn’t compare 40 year old tech with todays latest and greatest. So nothing changed in 40 years and yet everything is different.

The iPad is exceptionally data-centric: you don’t start with opening a file (app centric), you start with a file and decide to open it with some app (data-centric).

The iPad has a file system, but it’s build/used in a whole different way. It’s a different way of working, thinking.
My children look at macOS and think it is madness. Why do you need so many files? Just use something web/cloud based, but you just don’t do that kind of mind numbing work soothing trough all those files. (And let’s face it, they are right).
And yet, I still love to use macOS for OCR/large excels/working trough a large number of files. Perhaps I’m becoming a dinosaur as well.

So the bottom line is that you are too old/stuck in your ways to use an iPad. Your aren’t able to rethink your work and you are happy to keep walking the same path you did for the last 40 years. And you’re still happy grumbling about an iPad Pro/iOS that seems to have a huge appeal on you

Or you have work/software/data/apps that aren’t compatible with an iPad.

TL;DR: horses for courses, an iPad is not an universal master key (aka bolt cutter).