iPad Pro No file system - don't call it a "computer"

[redman042]

Having just read BusinessInsider Dave Smith's piece why he returned his IPP after 24 hrs...it just underscores yet again, why the ipad is such a niche product and a rather expensive one at that now with this refresh.

If you can make it work for you, have at it.

It's just too limiting a device...the list of shortcomings is considerable (no mouse support, sandbosed apps/data, etc) and if you think ios 13 will somehow usher in some great new features, I'll take you on that bet.

At some point, if BB has a $150 off sale...I'll use my CC points to snag the 11". My ipad 2 is really long-in-the-tooth now for reading my comics.

Keep in mind that a headline reading "I bought an <insert Apple product here> and returned it in 24 hrs" is a very popular and click-baity headline to use after any Apple product release. He wrote that for clicks more than anything else. Anyone regularly writing articles on tech products should already know whether the latest iPad will meet their workflow needs before even touching one.

 

[richpjr]

Keep in mind that a headline reading "I bought an <insert Apple product here> and returned it in 24 hrs" is a very popular and click-baity headline to use after any Apple product release. He wrote that for clicks more than anything else. Anyone regularly writing articles on tech products should already know whether the latest iPad will meet their workflow needs before even touching one.

It may be click bait, but if someone hasn't tried to use it as a laptop replacement before themselves, I'm not sure I'd blame them for quickly discovering it won't work for them.

 

[Aluminum213]

Someone explain to me how it’s a laptop replacement when I can I download an MP3 file from the website

 

[Dammit Cubs]

it has a file system. You just don't have full access to it. LOL

To be fair: based on the definition of a computer. The ipad pro, even the iphone and the apple watch is a computer. A computer's definition is defined by that of the operating system which is the software.

"device that computes, often a programmable machine, which can perform a programmed list of instructions and respond to new instructions given to it. An electronic computer accepts data, manipulates data, produces results, and stores results."

So the question that everyone should be asking is:

"is iOS capable enough to replace Mac OS or Windows OS as your only operating system for both productively and consumption in our daily lives".

 

[loybond]

I believe you can do this with the Readdle app.

There are many things that don't seem possible, but actually can be done if you put in the time and effort to find a way (eg. Using shortcuts to simplify importing pictures from an SD card, importing to Lightroom, then deleting from photos app).

But why do that? Some people are really motivated to find ways to make the iPad work, but that's just a waste of time to me, when I can use a Mac and just get things done without having to try so hard.

I don't think things are as grand as some people think. Apple isn't trying to reinvent the way computers work. They're also not divine beings who just know better.

I think it's as simple as this... While Jobs saw the iPad clearly as a tertiary device between a computer and phone (where it sits best imo), Tim Cook and co wanted to increase revenue and profit by way of increasing prices.

They knew the pro moniker is a way to do this (lesson learned from 2009 13" MBP). So they add a couple of speakers and random features (which have some value, yes) and the 9.7" iPad pro was born! They also knew iPad could do most of what average people used a computer for, so nobody was up in arms initially.

This worked, so they decided to continue forward with this trend until they hit a price and performance point that started to compete with their Macs, but offered no pro apps and no streamlined, easy way of working with files (as is usually necessary with pro work).

The os was never designed to do the heavy lifting of a real computer, and now, "average" people don't want to spend on an iPad pro, and for pros, the iPad pro doesn't really do more than the most basic iPad. So in simple terms, Apple has put themselves in a corner.

I may be wrong, but I feel like the new iPad air is there to try and correct this misstep to some degree.

Someone explain to me how it’s a laptop replacement when I can I download an MP3 file from the website

 

[richpjr]

But why do that? Some people are really motivated to find ways to make the iPad work, but that's just a waste of time to me, when I can use a Mac and just get things done without having to try so hard.

This sums up things perfectly - I have to try hard to do some things that could be streamlined or made so much easier. Here is to hoping iOS 13 cleans some of this up.

 

[RecentlyConverted]

I believe you can do this with the Readdle app.

There are many things that don't seem possible, but actually can be done if you put in the time and effort to find a way (eg. Using shortcuts to simplify importing pictures from an SD card, importing to Lightroom, then deleting from photos app).

But why do that? Some people are really motivated to find ways to make the iPad work, but that's just a waste of time to me, when I can use a Mac and just get things done without having to try so hard.

I don't think things are as grand as some people think. Apple isn't trying to reinvent the way computers work. They're also not divine beings who just know better.

I think it's as simple as this... While Jobs saw the iPad clearly as a tertiary device between a computer and phone (where it sits best imo), Tim Cook and co wanted to increase revenue and profit by way of increasing prices.

They knew the pro moniker is a way to do this (lesson learned from 2009 13" MBP). So they add a couple of speakers and random features (which have some value, yes) and the 9.7" iPad pro was born! They also knew iPad could do most of what average people used a computer for, so nobody was up in arms initially.

This worked, so they decided to continue forward with this trend until they hit a price and performance point that started to compete with their Macs, but offered no pro apps and no streamlined, easy way of working with files (as is usually necessary with pro work).

The os was never designed to do the heavy lifting of a real computer, and now, "average" people don't want to spend on an iPad pro, and for pros, the iPad pro doesn't really do more than the most basic iPad. So in simple terms, Apple has put themselves in a corner.

I may be wrong, but I feel like the new iPad air is there to try and correct this misstep to some degree.

I agree. When I got my first iPhone (5), then upgraded to 6+, 6S+ (now XS Max - gift wouldn't have bought), I realised it was a powerful computer in my hand. I was surprised how little it could do (and how little it still can do) out of the box. I spent hundreds of hours and a fortune on apps trying to get it to be more productive. If it hadn´t of been for FileBrowser, I would have left iOS years ago. Now I can´t be bothered. It either does what I want with the stock iOS and apps or my preferred apps, if not I dont bother. I have only downloaded one new app since getting the XS Max (over 1000 apps with the 5,6 & 6S). I am no longer motivated with iPhone and iPad. That means I am less likely to update my hardware and buy apps.

 

[loybond]

I agree with you about Filebrowser, its very useful. At home, it connects very easily with my network shares and adds a lot of functionality we wouldn't otherwise have. Even integrates with the Files app (which to me, is mostly useless tbh, as I can see the network shares, but can't open many types of files through Files).

I think many of have done what you in regards to apps... I also have a Max, and I can't exactly remember when I bought my last app.

I can accept that the phone has limitations - the screen is small, and usually we interact with it on the go. It's the iPad I can't really accept that with. Form factor wise, its my favourite. It has a large screen, and tons of power. There's no reason for it not to do more.

I agree. When I got my first iPhone (5), then upgraded to 6+, 6S+ (now XS Max - gift wouldn't have bought), I realised it was a powerful computer in my hand. I was surprised how little it could do (and how little it still can do) out of the box. I spent hundreds of hours and a fortune on apps trying to get it to be more productive. If it hadn´t of been for FileBrowser, I would have left iOS years ago. Now I can´t be bothered. It either does what I want with the stock iOS and apps or my preferred apps, if not I dont bother. I have only downloaded one new app since getting the XS Max (over 1000 apps with the 5,6 & 6S). I am no longer motivated with iPhone and iPad. That means I am less likely to update my hardware and buy apps.

 

[redman042]

I see both sides of the coin here, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

The sandboxing and user-side limitations that frustrate us are also the reason why iOS (1) never gets a virus; (2) crash of one app rarely affects the rest of the OS; (3) malware and apps that steal data do not exist; (4) OS performance is consistent; and (5) iOS devices are, comparatively speaking, highly reliable and require very little fiddling to keep working.

My iPad is a refreshing break from my Windows PC (for work) and even my Mac (at home). It's always lightning quick, powerful, and let's me focus on the task at hand. I can open any web page or load any app without worrying about malware. My private data is secure. I love that. I can just do the work or consume the content, without worrying about what's going on behind the scenes.

BUT, while there are many workarounds for OS limitations, it takes mental effort to use iOS for more complex productivity tasks. Apps deal with file management inconsistently, the ShareSheet is a cluster, multitasking is highly limited, and so forth. I often just give up.

I'm anxiously waiting to hear what Apple has in store for us with iOS 13. I sure hope they plan to rethink the iPad OS. It's high time...

 

[secretk]

I see both sides of the coin here, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

The sandboxing and user-side limitations that frustrate us are also the reason why iOS (1) never gets a virus; (2) crash of one app rarely affects the rest of the OS; (3) malware and apps that steal data do not exist; (4) OS performance is consistent; and (5) iOS devices are, comparatively speaking, highly reliable and require very little fiddling to keep working.

I see your point but only to certain extent.

1) My Android phones have never gotten viruses either and Android is not that sandboxed
2) Actually I have had Notes app crashes on my iPad that I can fix only with restart. Something I never do with Android because there I am free to really kill the app. I can't kill an app in iOS. I can only suspend it. So while the Notes app did not crash in a way to cause involuntary restart I still had to do it because the app continued to be unresponsive and I could not kill it and start it as new. I consistently have issues with Apple apps being unresponsive (Notes, Files, even Camera) and having to restart my device every time is not a working solution for me.
3) Not sure about this. I feel like people exploit this point too much. We have no concrete proof that others apps steal data that much, nor that iOS apps do not steal data.
4) I find that both of my iOS devices lack RAM. For all the RAM management in iOS being awesome talks I was quite surprised to see that this is not the case at all. Now I know. 2 GB RAM is definitely not enough. The amount of reloading of both apps and tabs is something that I tightly relate to performance (in other words this for me is bad performance). The fact that they have 2 years old phone (iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus) which still have 2 GB RAM is not a good sign for me.
5) I honestly don't find them anymore reliable than my Android phone or my Windows computer. However I might have been just lucky to not have issues with my Windows computers .

My iPad is a refreshing break from my Windows PC (for work) and even my Mac (at home). It's always lightning quick, powerful, and let's me focus on the task at hand. I can open any web page or load any app without worrying about malware. My private data is secure. I love that. I can just do the work or consume the content, without worrying about what's going on behind the scenes.

Ironically for me it's vice versa. Due to the RAM issues I have to think about what's going behind the scenes on the iPad far more. I always know that the more apps and tabs I open, the more issues I will see with performance. So I start controlling myself in that regard and I find this really restricting and it just really demotivates me.

When I bought my iPad last year I would use 4/5 hours a day on average. Now it's 1 hours and 10/15 minutes on average. There are days where I don't use it at all. I now use it only as digital notebook to do some brainstorming and draw some basic graphs. Everything else I do on my work laptop that is portable enough (14 inch), has touch screen and SSD so it lights up fast enough and it can support multitasking. I guess in the end the multitasking element for me turned out to be really important.

I'm anxiously waiting to hear what Apple has in store for us with iOS 13. I sure hope they plan to rethink the iPad OS. It's high time...

I do not trust them that much to be honest. I know what I dislike about iOS and I doubt that Apple will really fix the annoyances I have. My expectations are rather low when it comes to iOS 13 to be honest.

 

[sparksd]

I see your point but only to certain extent.

1) My Android phones have never gotten viruses either and Android is not that sandboxed

5) I honestly don't find them anymore reliable than my Android phone or my Windows computer. However I might have been just lucky to not have issues with my Windows computers

Same here. I have owned a lot of Android devices - phones & tablets - from day one and never got a virus. And same experience with Windows, using it since inception.

 

[loybond]

You make fair points, for sure.

It makes a lot of sense I think to have something like a Pro OS for the iPad Pros. The regular iPads being sandboxed makes sense - for kids, for the computer illiterate etc.

The Pro models, with their power and price point need the functionality to compete with laptops. I don't even think it would take that much. The ability to work with files, external storage is one main point, Pro apps is the other to me.

I see both sides of the coin here, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

The sandboxing and user-side limitations that frustrate us are also the reason why iOS (1) never gets a virus; (2) crash of one app rarely affects the rest of the OS; (3) malware and apps that steal data do not exist; (4) OS performance is consistent; and (5) iOS devices are, comparatively speaking, highly reliable and require very little fiddling to keep working.

My iPad is a refreshing break from my Windows PC (for work) and even my Mac (at home). It's always lightning quick, powerful, and let's me focus on the task at hand. I can open any web page or load any app without worrying about malware. My private data is secure. I love that. I can just do the work or consume the content, without worrying about what's going on behind the scenes.

BUT, while there are many workarounds for OS limitations, it takes mental effort to use iOS for more complex productivity tasks. Apps deal with file management inconsistently, the ShareSheet is a cluster, multitasking is highly limited, and so forth. I often just give up.

I'm anxiously waiting to hear what Apple has in store for us with iOS 13. I sure hope they plan to rethink the iPad OS. It's high time...

 

[redman042]

I have limited experience with Android so I can't speak to personal experience, but I read articles all the time about malicious apps in their store, data privacy problems, and general frustrations keeping the OS running well. These are Android-specific issues and do not exist on iOS except in some rare cases. I'm sure experience varies, but regardless, a locked-down OS like iOS avoids these problems (but of course, introduces other problems in the process).

My business runs on Windows and, while it is fine most of the time, we have suffered virus attacks even with great scanning software, and we often have to resolve problems impacting reliability or performance of workstations. Windows (and Android) is much more flexible than iOS, but with that flexibility comes IT headaches and greater vulnerabilities. It's the trade-off we all most grapple with.

 

[secretk]

I have limited experience with Android so I can't speak to personal experience, but I read articles all the time about malicious apps in their store, data privacy problems, and general frustrations keeping the OS running well. These are Android-specific issues and do not exist on iOS except in some rare cases. I'm sure experience varies, but regardless, a locked-down OS like iOS avoids these problems (but of course, introduces other problems in the process).

Could have been older versions of Android or third party apps not coming from the official market. What I like about Android store is that before app installation, the app informs me to all the access it needs (like camera, contacts, mobile data etc). This is actually that every Android Developer needs to explicitly define in a meta file that is read by the market. It's really useful because based on this I decide what to install or not. I can still restrict it in Settings later on, but this warns me even before installation. In that sense I prefer Android's approach over iOS as I have full visibility before installation.

My business runs on Windows and, while it is fine most of the time, we have suffered virus attacks even with great scanning software, and we often have to resolve problems impacting reliability or performance of workstations. Windows (and Android) is much more flexible than iOS, but with that flexibility comes IT headaches and greater vulnerabilities. It's the trade-off we all most grapple with.

It's a matter of setup. I work in a software company and we use Windows. The maintenance of our computers is centralized. The company defines what is allowed as far as access, when we need to update our OS etc. Not everyone has admin rights. We do but that's because we are Developers. As a result we have no issues and no viruses.

Same for my personal computers. I have always used Windows and the last time I had virus was around 2007.

It's the same for our company iPhones. We have MDM app installed and we install most of our stuff through it.

 

[LizKat]

Wait for people to come here to tell you why iPad is a real computer because they can run Photoshop and few apps that they are using on daily basis.

Heck, wait for people to come here to remind us that a real computer used to be a slide rule. The filing system was your brain operating a pen on paper.

 

[sparksd]

Heck, wait for people to come here to remind us that a real computer used to be a slide rule. The filing system was your brain operating a pen on paper.

Oh, yeah, I do remember those days. I still have mine from the 60's.

 

[jmgregory1]

Oh, yeah, I do remember those days. I still have mine from the 60's.

Isn’t it funny how these younger generations have no idea what has come before them as far as computers go. I learned to operate a punch card computer in college. My first job I didn’t have access to one of the handful of workstations the company had for more than a year, using notebooks to track my own contacts and sales.

 

[sparksd]

Isn’t it funny how these younger generations have no idea what has come before them as far as computers go. I learned to operate a punch card computer in college. My first job I didn’t have access to one of the handful of workstations the company had for more than a year, using notebooks to track my own contacts and sales.

I'm retired as a S/W Systems Engineer & Architect now but the changes I saw over the decades were quite remarkable, going from programming by flipping switches on the front of a computer to what we have today. I still remember the days when I first used a CRT and then in '84 when my R&D organization got a Mac - wow! Check out this GUI! I also remember less warmly working with machine language, JCL, and the IBM 360 with iron core memory (in an Air Force command & control airplane!).

 

[Nhwhazup]

Wen I heard the USB-C port was added I finally thought that Apple made the laptop (or near) replacement. I am not an artist, but an attorney that has used an iPad Pro since it was first released. My Gen 1 still works as well as it did three yearas ago. I am a photography enthusiast, keep Trial notes and have all my files in the loud or loaded onto the iPad Pro as needed. Have the ability to connect a thumb drive or a printer that doesn’t Air Print would be key. The lack of a file system made me purchase a MacBook Pro last February. I love the machine, although they are not as cutting edge as the MacBook Pros of 2007. Maybe Apple was hungrier then. Leopard was the operating system that made me go back to the Mac and switch my offices exclusively to Mac. The iPad Pro an IPad has camera connection kits that would not let you manipulate photos on the card, but upload them. You could only upload photos and nothing else, as I recall. The excitement over connecting a camera is not new. I don’t know why expanded storage is not a feature as it is something, especially in the pro market, in such high demand. That would really put the Surface in its place. My fear is that the “Pro” is not so pro in these devices any more and just means you will pay a premium for non pro features. With that’s said, my new iPad Pro, Apple Pencil 2, and Smart Keyboard Folio is gonna cost me $1,800.00 with tax.

You can connect a thumb drive. I use the iXpand from SanDisk. It works great to store all kinds of files.

 

[jmgregory1]

I'm retired as a S/W Systems Engineer & Architect now but the changes I saw over the decades were quite remarkable, going from programming by flipping switches on the front of a computer to what we have today. I still remember the days when I first used a CRT and then in '84 when my R&D organization got a Mac - wow! Check out this GUI! I also remember less warmly working with machine language, JCL, and the IBM 360 with iron core memory (in an Air Force command & control airplane!).

I had a few friends who were computer programmers, and distinctly remember the time we all saw another friend using his new Macintosh with mouse and the simplified GUI - I think that was in ‘85. I was totally smitten with the ease and simplicity it provided, especially for composing letters, or in the case of our friend who had the Mac, for writing novels.

The computer guys, both of whom were mainframe trained programmers, laughed and said they didn’t need to see how a page looked on their green screen CRT, they instead liked being able to program all the details needed to write a letter and simply type in the data and make changes, if necessary, once the page printed. I just shook my head and ended up buying a Mac as my first computer shortly thereafter.

 

[loybond]

If you're implying that the iPad is the evolution of a computer... congratulations, you played yourself. You've fallen for Apple's marketing.

When those older "computers" evolved into what most people recognize as computers today, they were able to do more with these newer computers, not less.

Heck, wait for people to come here to remind us that a real computer used to be a slide rule. The filing system was your brain operating a pen on paper.

[doublepost=1553969443][/doublepost]I think multiple reports have concluded that on the security front, iOS and Android are about equal. I think Android has had even less security holes in some years.

However there's so many Android devices out there running different versions, so there's that.

I have limited experience with Android so I can't speak to personal experience, but I read articles all the time about malicious apps in their store, data privacy problems, and general frustrations keeping the OS running well. These are Android-specific issues and do not exist on iOS except in some rare cases. I'm sure experience varies, but regardless, a locked-down OS like iOS avoids these problems (but of course, introduces other problems in the process).

My business runs on Windows and, while it is fine most of the time, we have suffered virus attacks even with great scanning software, and we often have to resolve problems impacting reliability or performance of workstations. Windows (and Android) is much more flexible than iOS, but with that flexibility comes IT headaches and greater vulnerabilities. It's the trade-off we all most grapple with.

 

[subjonas]

If you're implying that the iPad is the evolution of a computer... congratulations, you played yourself. You've fallen for Apple's marketing.

When those older "computers" evolved into what most people recognize as computers today, they were able to do more with these newer computers, not less.

I agree with this. I think the iPad is not the next step, it’s a side step—a splinter, an off shoot. It has its advantages and disadvantages which make it better for certain tasks and people, but not for everything and everyone.
I think apples official stance is pretty much the same, but they give off mixed messages. For the sake of marketing, they’re pushing iPad pretty heavily onto as many people as they can. And some people are inferring that ipad is THE future as opposed to A future.
As you said, the only way it can phase out the incumbent tech is if it did everything better, which it is far from doing.

 

[AutomaticApple]

And still no option to "open in music" on mp3 files either, just saying...

Yeah, that’s true...

 

[LizKat]

If you're implying that the iPad is the evolution of a computer... congratulations, you played yourself. You've fallen for Apple's marketing.

When those older "computers" evolved into what most people recognize as computers today, they were able to do more with these newer computers, not less.

I definitely wasn't implying that, although one can certainly "compute" things on an iPad, and of course the device runs software that makes computations behind the scenes incessantly.

In fact, I'm not a fan of how some of the MacOS apps look like they've gotten dumbed down to match how iOS operates. Having iOs be simpler is one thing and makes sense at least in the small real estate of an iPhone. But subtracting options from iTunes, for example, is something else and it's not a necessary spinoff of the creation and subsequent enhancement of iOS. Strictly speaking I'm not talking "computation" here, just about Apple electing to shrink a useful application's universe of features in a desktop app for no discernible reason... but was it coincidence that this began to occur as the iOS music application came over the horizon on the mobile devices with their smaller native display space?

Spoiler: The tl;dr

For instance, the "Music App" seems pretty hamstrung to me versus options in assorted levels of iTunes even now, but especially compared to back in the day when in iTunes one could reshuffle a playlist at will using option-shuffle while editing the list, and see a visual reorganization of the list each time.

LOL those were the days. With iOS all you can do is turn shuffle on, and then look at Up Next to see play order.

Or, while the list is still on your "real computer" in iTunes, you can arrange it manually as you think you might like to hear it --but there's no option-shuffle feature to apply as desired with a visual display of the changed sequence each time-- and then finally use "copy to play order" to freeze it for straight-through play.

And then when you finally get it loaded onto the iOS device, you can turn shuffle off to play it "pre-shuffled" as you wanted -- if you still have any energy left and feel like listening to the thing.

Life used to offer more complex options in the universe of music at Apple, and yet it was easier to manage at the same time, imagine that.

My post about the days of slide rules was just a reminder that everyone (still) uses computing devices differently, and that not all of the ones we've used over the years have provided an integrated "file system".

The problem in our later having experienced personal computing with access to a file system is that it has not been easy or even desirable to relinquish that just because a mobile device finally popped up.

Those mobiles popped up with operating systems that suggested we don't really need to keep track of where stuff lives, everything will be available at the press of some virtual button within a given app, including ways of transferring data from one app to another.

Yeah, well.. everyone with a PC had already developed some preferred way of sliding stuff around between applications before the first mobile device started telling us how simple things are without having to "worry" about a filing system.

See we were never worried to begin with, give or take a few years' worth of mucking around with SCSI voodoo to connect our peripherals. But meanwhile a hands-on file system had become an essential component in our views of what "computing" meant: gone the yellow legal pad and the pen next to the slide rule...

So here we are now with a plethora of mobile apps that rely on this or that make-do filing system after all... stored on our computers or on our mobiles or in the cloud and [usually?] accessible across platforms.

Gradually it would seem we're getting more or less back to square one, where there's a filing system we can get our hands on. Feels like we've gone from Brooklyn to Queens by way of Thailand to me.