No GPU upgrades coming for nMP, proof is in the firmware

[MacVidCards]

If we had a nMP with "slots and bays" today, nobody would be make you open it, but at least everyone else would have the option to.

Also I question the 95%. That might be true in your circle/business/field, but overall I doubt it. Sort the Mac Pro forum by the "views" column and you'll see that upgrade threads are overwhelmingly popular, with thousands of replies and literally millions of views.

Yeah, I'm calling BS on the 95%. Have a look at the topics at Apple.com.

"Expanding the Mac Pro" is #2, right after "Using the Mac Pro"

 

[prowlmedia]

I just like the added IO lanes that come with a second processor. The Mac line really needs a dual socket machine...

This is very true too. It is of course possible that may happen with a 7,1 Perhaps making it more optional able
Single CPU - Single GPU
Dual CPU - single GPU
Etc and even dual/dual if there is space.

 

[prowlmedia]

If we had a nMP with "slots and bays" today, nobody would be make you open it, but at least everyone else would have the option to.

Also I question the 95%. That might be true in your circle/business/field, but overall I doubt it. Sort the Mac Pro forum by the "views" column and you'll see that upgrade threads are overwhelmingly popular, with thousands of replies and literally millions of views.

Sure. But you have to remember that there a lot of pros here that are sole operators or small businesses. I am one of them. But over the past 10 years I've worked in scores of design studios and most of them have stock mac pros that haven't been touched. Most only even had 1 Drive installed!!! and the Stock GPU and Ram. In almost every place I've been I've had to beg them to upgrade some parts.

After effects houses that didn't even have the MultiProcessor settings on at all - Completely shocked when they see the rendering times go down 10x and they have wasted their 12 core machines for 3 years.

I even bought my own SSDs as a main drive for one client as they didn't see the need until they did and bought them for the whole studio.

This is of course a tech support issue. As I know a lot of artists have no idea, nor care about the differences in specs and settle for what is in front of them, but when shown the speed with a few hundred pounds/dollars of upgrades are gobsmacked how much difference it makes.

95% might be high but I'll definitely go for 75% overall as most Mac Pros are still bought by businesses.

I do get the point though Expandability is important for a lot of people. I think Thunderbolt is perfectly acceptable for storage and external units for eGPUs or any other devices is actually more useful for a small studio as they can be shared between Artists as needed.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Just be sure to check these two options and then it just flies !
P.S. It uses both GPUs

Image

Now these are the posts I like to see that are actually helpful. I'm using version 11 lite version from the Mac App store, but don't see those options. I've heard the one downloaded directly from the website is a bit different. You need the full version to use more then one GPU.

 

[MacVidCards]

Sure. But you have to remember that there a lot of pros here that are sole operators or small businesses. I am one of them. But over the past 10 years I've worked in scores of design studios and most of them have stock mac pros that haven't been touched. Most only even had 1 Drive installed!!! and the Stock GPU and Ram. In almost every place I've been I've had to beg them to upgrade some parts.

After effects houses that didn't even have the MultiProcessor settings on at all - Completely shocked when they see the rendering times go down 10x and they have wasted their 12 core machines for 3 years.

I even bought my own SSDs as a main drive for one client as they didn't see the need until they did and bought them for the whole studio.

This is of course a tech support issue. As I know a lot of artists have no idea, nor care about the differences in specs and settle for what is in front of them, but when shown the speed with a few hundred pounds/dollars of upgrades are gobsmacked how much difference it makes.

95% might be high but I'll definitely go for 75% overall as most Mac Pros are still bought by businesses.

I do get the point though Expandability is important for a lot of people. I think Thunderbolt is perfectly acceptable for storage and external units for eGPUs or any other devices is actually more useful for a small studio as they can be shared between Artists as needed.

I'm guessing you're not in LA. I've found the total opposite here.

Lots of DITs, on set daily folks, and LOADS of post houses are in regular touch trying to stay on top of the curve.

In fact in my more than 20 years in the film biz, I have always found that it is an unforgiving biz where excuses carry no weight. You either remain competitive or go out of business. Being able to handle more footage per day is the measure of how to make more money.

Being able to correct more footage per day is the way to make more money and get more jobs.

Someone running a 8 core 2.26 with a 4870 is probably selling Amway on the side and wondering why their career never took off.

 

[bax2003]

Now these are the posts I like to see that are actually helpful. I'm using version 11 lite version from the Mac App store, but don't see those options. I've heard the one downloaded directly from the website is a bit different. You need the full version to use more then one GPU.

That is correct, Lite version has few limitations...however, pretty good for free version.

 

[Macsonic]

more food for thought, try going to an Apple Store and buy an Airport card for your 2009 cMP. They won't sell it to you.

The only way to buy one is to pay them to install it. (Or aftermarket) they don't consider an Airport card a "user serviceable part". So you have to lug the entire machine to them to put in 2 screws and connect the antenas.

And as we now know, to place a new GPU in 6,1 you would have to remove 2 out of 3 of the main PCBs, AFTER running a firmware update. If they don't trust you to put an airport card in, does anyone truly think they'll hand you a box with new GPUs and say "Good Luck with the firmware flash , hope you don't brick it"? Of course not.

We expect 7,1 to contain new tech, possibly TB3 or DP 1.3. And both of those things run through those PCBs. Is it likely that Apple is going to task the engineers with keeping new parts compatible with 6,1 so they can be used there too? Does that sound at all like Apple?

Of course not. TB3 is different tech with a different connector.

The only chance of Apple producing new GPUs that work in 6,1 is if the 7,1 is a "warm over" like 5,1 was to 4,1. Faster SSD and new GPUs but no other substantive changes. Then, maybe if they create a boot rom that flashes on to 6,1 AND sell GPUs outside of service lines, then maybe for a few thousand dollars you will have an upgrade if you bring it in to the Apple Store and let them do it. But that is a long string of "maybes" and also requires 7,1 to be a rather stagnant product. i don't see it happening.

Look at all the other Macs which have lost upgradeable parts. The trend is clear and all in one direction. And as I pointed out at the beginning, if Apple had intended for GPUs to differ from the originals, they could have spent $1 extra per machine to include EEPROM chips on both GPUs. It literally would have cost them $1.

In all honesty, I would guess that 7,1 will have altered connectors if in same form factor. Add or remove some pins so there is no way to intermingle parts.

Yeah. Also we should consider factoring in issues on GPU performances if there will be new GPUs for the 7.1 nMac Pro. Current new 2013 Mac Pro users are having Render problems on Mercury Playback Engine and Premiere Pro. Some artifacts and unwanted horizontal lines are appearing in their renders.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1422947?start=560&tstart=0

It's a year old long thread and up to now the issue looks unresolved looking at the latest posts. There is the downtime of bringing over the computer to service centre as you're limited to just the available GPU choices that are propriety.

 

[MacVidCards]

Yeah. Also we should consider factoring in issues on GPU performances if there will be new GPUs for the 7.1 nMac Pro. Current new 2013 Mac Pro users are having Render problems on Mercury Playback Engine and Premiere Pro. Some artifacts and unwanted horizontal lines are appearing in their renders.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1422947?start=560&tstart=0

It's a year old long thread and up to now the issue looks unresolved looking at the latest posts. There is the downtime of bringing over the computer to service centre as you're limited to just the available GPU choices that are propriety.

Look out, you're going to get called a liar and told you are spreading "FUD", I did when I mentioned the issues nMP has had with Resolve. (Told to me by a lying BMD Tech guy)

And I guess the dozens of people posting in that thread are liars too.

Sad state of society today, dozens and dozens of liars, all mysteriously targeting the Mini-Pro.

Poor little thing.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Look out, you're going to get called a liar and told you are spreading "FUD", I did when I mentioned the issues nMP has had with Resolve. (Told to me by a lying BMD Tech guy)

And I guess the dozens of people posting in that thread are liars too.

Sad state of society today, dozens and dozens of liars, all mysteriously targeting the Mini-Pro.

Poor little thing.

Actually it had nothing to do with me believing you or not, until you had a hissy fit about it. Getting two conflicting reports within BlackMagic itself questions were the truth really lies somewhere in between.

 

[MacVidCards]

Actually it had nothing to do with me believing you or not, until you had a hissy fit about it. Getting two conflicting reports within BlackMagic itself questions were the truth really lies somewhere in between.

I deal with Resolve users and people in their tech support department. I have provided them with MANY of the cards we produce for purposes of maintaining a lack of problems.

I chose to believe the people using the software and the people who provide tech support to them.

You chose to believe a CEO who was part of the back patting at nMP release. Nobody in the field had even tried the software on the machine when he said that.

So i would ask you to employ what is referred to as "Critical Thought".

Now to help out, either go to Creative Cow and do some reading, or have a look at that Adobe thread.

See what you come up with.

 

[monokakata]

Now to help out, either go to Creative Cow and do some reading, or have a look at that Adobe thread.

I read that Adobe thread. What a mess!

When my 5,1 died I had to choose between the nMP and a maxed-out retina iMac. Both required external TB storage, which I was OK with getting into. I figured the iMac would tide me over until there was a second version of the nMP.

I'm very happy that I got the iMac.

 

[JesterJJZ]

I read that Adobe thread. What a mess!

When my 5,1 died I had to choose between the nMP and a maxed-out retina iMac. Both required external TB storage, which I was OK with getting into. I figured the iMac would tide me over until there was a second version of the nMP.

I'm very happy that I got the iMac.

The nMP is way overpriced for what it is. I was in the same boat but utimately I had my 5,1 repaired. Doing the math I would have needed to spend about $4k on a nMP and another $3k in Thunderbolt accessories to get a machine that was equivalent to my current setup. That's for hard drive enclosures, PCI box, replacing BM cards etc. This would also make everything external.

The nMP may be a cool ,unique and capable little computer, but it is in no way, shape, form or function a workstation. I would chose PCIe over Thunderbolt any day of the week.

 

[bax2003]

The nMP may be a cool ,unique and capable little computer, but it is in no way, shape, form or function a workstation. I would chose PCIe over Thunderbolt any day of the week.

Very interesting statement. Why do you thing people buy nMP ? To play games ? Browse ? Watch movies ?
Because they are deluded from advertising ?

Guess what: people don´t mind external storage and hardware because we like it removable and portable. Is this so hard to understand ?

This is classic workstation with 24 CPU threads and 128GB of ECC RAM with different form factor. It is fast, portable, upgradable with relatively small power consumption.

 

[H2SO4]

Very interesting statement. Why do you thing people buy nMP ? To play games ? Browse ? Watch movies ?
Because they are deluded from advertising ?

Guess what: people don´t mind external storage and hardware because we like it removable and portable. Is this so hard to understand ?

This is classic workstation with 24 CPU threads and 128GB of ECC RAM with different form factor. It is fast, portable, upgradable with relatively small power consumption.

Can I just ask you what it is about the cMP that prevents you using external storage and hardware that is removable and portable?

 

[bax2003]

Can I just ask you what it is about the cMP that prevents you using external storage and hardware that is removable and portable?

Native USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt. Almost every new Black Magic / AJA I/O is USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt. I need native USB 3.0, without even possible 3rd party driver problem. When I need to work outside (out of office, studio, shooting location etc.), there is my MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt and USB 3.0, and I am fine. I could just bring nMP if I need extreme performance ( if there is power outlet ).

 

[H2SO4]

Native USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt. Almost every new Black Magic / AJA I/O is USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt. I need native USB 3.0, without even possible 3rd party driver problem. When I need to work outside (out of office, studio, shooting location etc.), there is my MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt and USB 3.0, and I am fine. I could just bring nMP if I need extreme performance ( if there is power outlet ).

Ok so TB is not available, (though I’m sure it is really), but why does USB3 have to be native? I have USB3 with zero problems at the mo working in Windows and the MacOS. There are some USB cards that use the same chipset that Apple does too.
That said, solely internal storage does not preclude the use of external storage, the opposite is not true.

 

[prowlmedia]

I'm guessing you're not in LA. I've found the total opposite here.

Lots of DITs, on set daily folks, and LOADS of post houses are in regular touch trying to stay on top of the curve.

In fact in my more than 20 years in the film biz, I have always found that it is an unforgiving biz where excuses carry no weight. You either remain competitive or go out of business. Being able to handle more footage per day is the measure of how to make more money.

Being able to correct more footage per day is the way to make more money and get more jobs.

Someone running a 8 core 2.26 with a 4870 is probably selling Amway on the side and wondering why their career never took off.

London, NYC and LA if that make any difference. Directed dozens of TV ads and VFX for Film, TV and games.

Basically you are discussing High turnover Post Facilities. Quantity over quality as far as I am concerned and a race to the bottom in a dying industry. I've zero interest in that.

 

[bax2003]

Ok so TB is not available, (though I’m sure it is really), but why does USB3 have to be native? I have USB3 with zero problems at the mo working in Windows and the MacOS. There are some USB cards that use the same chipset that Apple does too.
That said, solely internal storage does not preclude the use of external storage, the opposite is not true.

It must be native, because 3rd prty drivers can break with every OS X update without warning.

Oh, one more thing. Do you have AppleCare for your cMP ? I need this kind of security as well.

 

[Macsonic]

Look out, you're going to get called a liar and told you are spreading "FUD", I did when I mentioned the issues nMP has had with Resolve. (Told to me by a lying BMD Tech guy)

And I guess the dozens of people posting in that thread are liars too.

Sad state of society today, dozens and dozens of liars, all mysteriously targeting the Mini-Pro.

Poor little thing.

Yep I read that post about being tagged as a liar and spreading FUD. No worries on that. I try to be cautious in posting some infos and try to include a verified source where the info came from. That Adobe forum thread was actually shared with me by a client of mine who has a new Mac Pro. He was trying to look for solutions to the horizontal lines problems as he had similar rendering problems.

I've also had experiences using the new Mac Pros. I work with various design and motion graphics studios and sometimes they require me to do the editing work onsite in their offices using their Macs. I've used an 8 core 3.0 with D500 and a quad new Mac Pro with D300. Though the classic Mac Pro fills my needs fine and I'd like to be able to have more control in changing/upgrading GPUs.

I read that Adobe thread. What a mess!

When my 5,1 died I had to choose between the nMP and a maxed-out retina iMac. Both required external TB storage, which I was OK with getting into. I figured the iMac would tide me over until there was a second version of the nMP.

I'm very happy that I got the iMac.

Some design firms also purchased the 5k iMac as cost was a major factor. A cinematographer/photographer who owns both the 5k Retina iMac and a 6 core new Mac Pro ran some tests using Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro Export and Rendering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJt3av99e8k

The latter part of the video was interesting as he did actual real time tests and not just a benchmark statistics. Both machines were fast though in many tests the 5k iMac was faster.