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Macdude2010

macrumors 65816
Mar 17, 2010
1,354
551
The Apple Store
If the leaker L0vetodream suggested that a new iPad Pro 11 inch is in the pipeline, I’d be pretty comfortable saying that the 11 inch iPad Pro is here to stay. The iPad Air is very similar to the pro right now, but once the pro gets updated there will be less feature parity. While here on macrumors the iPad 11/12.9 is about a 50/50 split, in terms of general purchases, I remember hearing the figures of 4:1 between the two models, both have a reason to exist in the lineup.
 

Populus

macrumors 603
Aug 24, 2012
5,980
8,445
Spain, Europe
If the leaker L0vetodream suggested that a new iPad Pro 11 inch is in the pipeline, I’d be pretty comfortable saying that the 11 inch iPad Pro is here to stay. The iPad Air is very similar to the pro right now, but once the pro gets updated there will be less feature parity. While here on macrumors the iPad 11/12.9 is about a 50/50 split, in terms of general purchases, I remember hearing the figures of 4:1 between the two models, both have a reason to exist in the lineup.
Oh, I didn't know L0vetodream had predicted a new 11" iPad Pro.
 

Traverse

macrumors 604
Mar 11, 2013
7,711
4,491
Here
I'm still not sure I buy into this. I could see Apple doing basic updates the 11" and 12" iPad Pro (A14X, 5G, etc) and then slotting in a higher-tier 12.9" with new display technology similar to how there are multiple 13" MacBook Pros.

One reason I don't see the 11" being completely removed is that Apple would then have a large hole in their lineup at this size that they did not previously have as the iPad Air is not able to fit all of the use cases of this size class in the past. The main factor I'm thinking of here is storage. While ProMotion, better speakers, LiDAR, etc. could all be waived off as "Pro features," the iPad Air only goes to 256GB of storage and I don't see Apple making people go to an entirely new size class for 512GB storage which has already been offered in the 10"-11" size class for years. That plus the fact that Apple very intentionally chose 10.9" for the iPad Air. Why not use economies of scale and use 11" unless you were saving for future differentiation.

It's not like with MacBook Air only getting 2TB as the MacBook Air has never had more than that, but to tell all the mid-sized market that they can no longer get higher storage seems odd to me. Plus it seems like odd money to leave on the table for the customer base that would pay the up-charge from the 10.9" Air to the 11" Pro.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,991
20,174
UK
If the leaker L0vetodream suggested that a new iPad Pro 11 inch is in the pipeline, I’d be pretty comfortable saying that the 11 inch iPad Pro is here to stay. The iPad Air is very similar to the pro right now, but once the pro gets updated there will be less feature parity. While here on macrumors the iPad 11/12.9 is about a 50/50 split, in terms of general purchases, I remember hearing the figures of 4:1 between the two models, both have a reason to exist in the lineup.
when did he do this though?
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,345
Beverly, Massachusetts
I'm still not sure I buy into this. I could see Apple doing basic updates the 11" and 12" iPad Pro (A14X, 5G, etc) and then slotting in a higher-tier 12.9" with new display technology similar to how there are multiple 13" MacBook Pros.

One reason I don't see the 11" being completely removed is that Apple would then have a large hole in their lineup at this size that they did not previously have as the iPad Air is not able to fit all of the use cases of this size class in the past. The main factor I'm thinking of here is storage. While ProMotion, better speakers, LiDAR, etc. could all be waived off as "Pro features," the iPad Air only goes to 256GB of storage and I don't see Apple making people go to an entirely new size class for 512GB storage which has already been offered in the 10"-11" size class for years. That plus the fact that Apple very intentionally chose 10.9" for the iPad Air. Why not use economies of scale and use 11" unless you were saving for future differentiation.

It's not like with MacBook Air only getting 2TB as the MacBook Air has never had more than that, but to tell all the mid-sized market that they can no longer get higher storage seems odd to me. Plus it seems like odd money to leave on the table for the customer base that would pay the up-charge from the 10.9" Air to the 11" Pro.
Maybe they would offer the iPad Air in larger storage capacities if they discontinued the iPad Pro 11. Still not sure what the purpose of the LiDAR hardware is on the iPad “Pro” or iPhone 12 “Pro” Very few apps utilize it, and those that do seem rather clunky. Seems like a waste of space and waste of added cost. Tim and crew tout it for AR, but they’ve been touting AR for the past 5 years with no major breakthrough (no minor one either)
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
I'm highly skeptical of the iPad Fold. I do believe that the Air and 11" Pro could easily merge and that the 10.2" iPad will just jump into the chassis of the third generation iPad Air (effectively being a newer generation of that device with a newer SoC under the hood), also that we'll get a USB-C all-screen iPad mini (though, if there's any iPad that I'd be cool with not moving to the new style, it's the iPad mini; but that's just me).
The form factor of the mini will be interesting, the other iPads suggest a shorter and wider footprint (assuming an ~8.5" display as rumoured) but being able to palm it one handed restricts how much wider they can go. The mini has also tended to have smaller bezels than other iPads, so can/ will it look even more edge to edge than the Pros?
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
when did he do this though?
Still a little bit ambiguous, but seems to confirm another leaker saying two sizes in the works:

Very curious subsequent rumours keep going back to it being a lone 12.9 wrt mini LED though.
 

redcaptrickster

Suspended
Nov 27, 2020
185
351
I have a 13" Macbook Pro and have absolutely no interest in the 12.9" iPad
I'm now in the same boat. I downsized my MBP from 16" to 13" (I hated the size of the 16" -- too big). Now I feel the same with the iPad. 12.9" is too big. My next one will be 11". Now if they would just go back to the smaller iPhone models... ;-)
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,025
2,617
Los Angeles, CA
The form factor of the mini will be interesting, the other iPads suggest a shorter and wider footprint (assuming an ~8.5" display as rumoured) but being able to palm it one handed restricts how much wider they can go. The mini has also tended to have smaller bezels than other iPads, so can/ will it look even more edge to edge than the Pros?
It's the top and bottom bezels that will get you the most added space. The iPad mini currently rocks a 7.9" display. Keeping the same footprint and going up to 8.5" or 8.6" is totally doable.
I'm now in the same boat. I downsized my MBP from 16" to 13" (I hated the size of the 16" -- too big). Now I feel the same with the iPad. 12.9" is too big. My next one will be 11". Now if they would just go back to the smaller iPhone models... ;-)
The 12.9" iPad and the 13" MacBook Air/Pro may be of similar size, but their uses and use cases still differ wildly. Just because the size is similar doesn't mean they ought to be compared as similar devices.
 

redcaptrickster

Suspended
Nov 27, 2020
185
351
The 12.9" iPad and the 13" MacBook Air/Pro may be of similar size, but their uses and use cases still differ wildly. Just because the size is similar doesn't mean they ought to be compared as similar devices.
Everyone knows that. I'm not sure what your point is, since I wasn't comparing the devices in my post.
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
It's the top and bottom bezels that will get you the most added space. The iPad mini currently rocks a 7.9" display. Keeping the same footprint and going up to 8.5" or 8.6" is totally doable.

The 12.9" iPad and the 13" MacBook Air/Pro may be of similar size, but their uses and use cases still differ wildly. Just because the size is similar doesn't mean they ought to be compared as similar devices.
Assuming a move to the 1.43:1 aspect the 11" Pro and new Air have taken, a 8.5" display would gain a little over 3mm in width, which isn't a lot in itself, but the side bezels on the Pros are also thicker - about 2mm per side, so the device would be just over 7mm wider overall using iPP bezels. Doesn't sound like a lot, but I expect 3/4 of a cm would be noticeable, especially with a boxier design.
 

Scarpad

macrumors 68020
Jan 13, 2005
2,152
655
Ma
Still no mention of an 11” among the devices getting mini-LED, which makes me think it’s not happening... Even the iPad mini and 8th gen sizes are listed among the devices that will get it. Do you think they’re really going to discontinue the 11” Pro and wait for a mini-LED on the next Air (which won’t be out for awhile), effectively replacing it with the Air lineup?

The price increase we saw on the Air and all these reports failing to mention an 11” makes me curious.
I was thinking this as well, I’ve had the 12.9, nice but really too large for me I like the 11” size but I guess it’s redundant with the air. Problem is they won’t offer the air with the larger disk size and I use mine as a comic reader and need a larger size to hold a bigger library
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
iPad Mini 8'' in mini-LED?
Are you sure?
It keeps popping up in rumours from people with decent track records, sounds promising to land sometime next year. Mini LED for non-Pro models is interesting, I'd have thought it would be at least a 12 month Pro exclusive, but that's what they're saying:

 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,025
2,617
Los Angeles, CA
If the leaker L0vetodream suggested that a new iPad Pro 11 inch is in the pipeline, I’d be pretty comfortable saying that the 11 inch iPad Pro is here to stay. The iPad Air is very similar to the pro right now, but once the pro gets updated there will be less feature parity. While here on macrumors the iPad 11/12.9 is about a 50/50 split, in terms of general purchases, I remember hearing the figures of 4:1 between the two models, both have a reason to exist in the lineup.

Oh, I didn't know L0vetodream had predicted a new 11" iPad Pro.

when did he do this though?
He didn't technically predict both iPads. He just didn't deny it when someone replying to him mentioned two codenames. I suppose that's optimistic. But it's not an outright claim from him that there will be two.
Everyone knows that. I'm not sure what your point is, since I wasn't comparing the devices in my post.
The comment you were replying to was making that claim. MacRumors forums doesn't do nested sub-threading, so I was continuing that sub-discussion.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,991
20,174
UK
He didn't technically predict both iPads. He just didn't deny it when someone replying to him mentioned two codenames. I suppose that's optimistic. But it's not an outright claim from him that there will be two.

The comment you were replying to was making that claim. MacRumors forums doesn't do nested sub-threading, so I was continuing that sub-discussion.
hmmm yeah I mean if there was only one I would have expected him to say as such...more I think about it the more it doesn't make sense to drop the 11 inch pro seeing as I think the sales must be similar.

I get people talk about the air a direct replacement but is still behind the 11 inch pro in certain areas with pro motion being one and the price difference is a good amount still to have 2 different models.
 
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DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
13,051
6,985
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
If they discontinue the 11" iPad Pro, I will not be happy.

Likewise it’s my second iPad which I love absolutely, my1st was the old 9.7 iPad Air which I hated.

Maybe 12,9” iPad Pro and 15” iPad Pro Max? ?
To be honest as an 11” iPad Pro owner, I would not recommend 11” IPP over the iPad Air 4 currently.

My iPad Pro 11” has more RAM than your Air 4, also I prefer FaceID especially when in landscape mode using BT Logi KM130 and MX Anywhere 2, saves me from touchin the screen the iPad so requently. sure the case looks the same, and you get ‘colours’ on the Air 4 but that‘s it. Chips are different and ‘18 iPadPro 11” still outperforms the Air 4.

Not everyone wants to carry around a 12.9” iPP especially with it’s costs averagin the same as an Intel 10TH gen or M1 MBA!
 

snipr125

macrumors 68020
Oct 17, 2015
2,015
3,137
UK
Likewise it’s my second iPad which I love absolutely, my1st was the old 9.7 iPad Air which I hated.



My iPad Pro 11” has more RAM than your Air 4, also I prefer FaceID especially when in landscape mode using BT Logi KM130 and MX Anywhere 2, saves me from touchin the screen the iPad so requently. sure the case looks the same, and you get ‘colours’ on the Air 4 but that‘s it. Chips are different and ‘18 iPadPro 11” still outperforms the Air 4.

Not everyone wants to carry around a 12.9” iPP especially with it’s costs averagin the same as an Intel 10TH gen or M1 MBA!
Mac dog pro owns a iPad Pro 11, he clearly said this in his statement, yet he recommends the Air 4 even though he doesn’t own one. Also in your sig it states you have a 2018 iPad Pro 256gb, which has 4gb of ram just like the iPad Air 4 (only the 1TB version of the 2018 pro has 6gb ram). Regarding the chips, the 5nm A14 chip in the Air 4 significantly outperforms the A12x by about 40% in single core performance. The A14 also has slightly higher Metal GPU scores on geekbench. Granted the A12x has a 10% better multi core score than the A14, but the A14 has more performance per watt due its 5nm die size and being 2 generations newer. The Pro 2018 obviously has promotion and quad speakers, which the Air 4 doesn’t!
 
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macdogpro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2020
656
494
My iPad Pro 11” has more RAM than your Air 4, also I prefer FaceID especially when in landscape mode using BT Logi KM130 and MX Anywhere 2, saves me from touchin the screen the iPad so requently. sure the case looks the same, and you get ‘colours’ on the Air 4 but that‘s it. Chips are different and ‘18 iPadPro 11” still outperforms the Air 4.

Not everyone wants to carry around a 12.9” iPP especially with it’s costs averagin the same as an Intel 10TH gen or M1 MBA!

Mac dog pro owns a iPad Pro 11, he clearly said this in his statement, yet he recommends the Air 4 even though he doesn’t own one. Also in your sig it states you have a 2018 iPad Pro 256gb, which has 4gb of ram just like the iPad Air 4 (only the 1TB version of the 2018 pro has 6gb ram). Regarding the chips, the 5nm A14 chip in the Air 4 significantly outperforms the A12x by about 40% in single core performance. The A14 also has slightly higher Metal GPU scores on geekbench. Granted the A12x has a 10% better multi core score than the A14, but the A14 has more performance per watt due its 5nm die size and being 2 generations newer. The Pro 2018 obviously has promotion and quad speakers, which the Air 4 doesn’t!

Yes I own 11” IPP 2020, not the Air 4. And I love my IPP, also prefer Face ID over Touch ID. And I think 12,9” iPad also too big for my likings.

But I’m recommending the Air 4 for people in general due to its newer SoC and overall price-performance ratio wise.

A14 is generally better in day to day use than A12X/Z. And no, the extra RAM in the Pros aren’t taking any benefits currently, except special use case such as extra layers on Procreate app (which I use). Extra GPU cores on the Pros also only give us better performance when playing heavy games connected to high resolution external displays.

So it starting to make sense the early reports and assumptions from many people predicting Apple won’t continue the IPP 11” line, it’s too close in comparison with the Air line currently. Unlike iPhone 12 vs 12 Pro that still has distinctive differences in cameras and body finishing. People just don’t care about cameras in iPads.
 

lugolo

macrumors member
Feb 11, 2014
32
23
Spain
Yes I own 11” IPP 2020, not the Air 4. And I love my IPP, also prefer Face ID over Touch ID. And I think 12,9” iPad also too big for my likings.

But I’m recommending the Air 4 for people in general due to its newer SoC and overall price-performance ratio wise.

A14 is generally better in day to day use than A12X/Z. And no, the extra RAM in the Pros aren’t taking any benefits currently, except special use case such as extra layers on Procreate app (which I use). Extra GPU cores on the Pros also only give us better performance when playing heavy games connected to high resolution external displays.

So it starting to make sense the early reports and assumptions from many people predicting Apple won’t continue the IPP 11” line, it’s too close in comparison with the Air line currently. Unlike iPhone 12 vs 12 Pro that still has distinctive differences in cameras and body finishing. People just don’t care about cameras in iPads.
More RAM, Promotion, more and better speakers, better cpu, better gpu, more storage... I think, if iPhone 12 6,1 and iPhone 12 Pro 6,1 has sense, also has the iPad Pro 11” vs Air
 
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macdogpro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2020
656
494
More RAM, Promotion, more and better speakers, better cpu, better gpu, more storage... I think, if iPhone 12 6,1 and iPhone 12 Pro 6,1 has sense, also has the iPad Pro 11” vs Air

RAM management is still limiting on iOS / iPadOS, people say this over and over; there’s not much of a use case between 4GB and 6GB in iPadOS. Promotion is great, even though I can’t tell the difference myself (some people are like me, bad eyes I guess lol). Quad speakers also nice to have. As someone elaborated above, CPU and GPU better yes in some cases only. Now storage options also is a differentiator.

We’ll see whether Apple ditch the 11” IPP or not in the future.
I’m not against the 11” IPP existence, like I said, I love mine. It’s just I think the Air 4 offers better value for most people, not all people including me.
 
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Traverse

macrumors 604
Mar 11, 2013
7,711
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RAM management is still limiting on iOS / iPadOS, people say this over and over; there’s not much of a use case between 4GB and 6GB in iPadOS. Promotion is great, even though I can’t tell the difference myself (some people are like me, bad eyes I guess lol). Quad speakers also nice to have. As someone elaborated above, CPU and GPU better yes in some cases only. Now storage options also is a differentiator.

We’ll see whether Apple ditch the 11” IPP or not in the future.
I’m not against the 11” IPP existence, like I said, I love mine. It’s just I think the Air 4 offers better value for most people, not all people including me.
I agree with you, but there’s one factor that I think doesn’t make sense and that’s the 10.9” screen. If Apple really was going to phase out the 11”, why not just make the iPad Air 11”. 10.9“ is not an elegant spec and the increased bezel size is noticeable to anyone who compares the two. While I agree that ProMotion, Quad Speakers, and the performance gains could easily be waived off by Apple because people outside the tech sphere likely wouldn‘t notice or place much emphasis on those traits, the screen size does.

I can’t help but feel like Apple was intentionally leaving additional marketing headroom to differentiate a future 11” iPad Pro from the 10.9” Air - otherwise why add more fragmentation. I also feel this way about storage, but not as strongly as Apple could easily start offering a quiet 512GB model of the iPad Air the day the 11” Pro was discontinued.
 

macdogpro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2020
656
494
I agree with you, but there’s one factor that I think doesn’t make sense and that’s the 10.9” screen. If Apple really was going to phase out the 11”, why not just make the iPad Air 11”. 10.9“ is not an elegant spec and the increased bezel size is noticeable to anyone who compares the two. While I agree that ProMotion, Quad Speakers, and the performance gains could easily be waived off by Apple because people outside the tech sphere likely wouldn‘t notice or place much emphasis on those traits, the screen size does.

I can’t help but feel like Apple was intentionally leaving additional marketing headroom to differentiate a future 11” iPad Pro from the 10.9” Air - otherwise why add more fragmentation. I also feel this way about storage, but not as strongly as Apple could easily start offering a quiet 512GB model of the iPad Air the day the 11” Pro was discontinued.
Haha I agree on the bezel thingy too! It’s so noticeable in my eyes, but some people just can’t belief the 0,1 inch difference is noticeable. Well it does! Haha.

Yeah, we can always speculates, but we’ll just have to see pretty soon what is Apple thinking about this fragmentation.
Fragmentation is one of the factor that holding up Android devices from getting better supports from developer, I think Apple understand this better than most.
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
13,051
6,985
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Yes I own 11” IPP 2020, not the Air 4. And I love my IPP, also prefer Face ID over Touch ID. And I think 12,9” iPad also too big for my likings.

But I’m recommending the Air 4 for people in general due to its newer SoC and overall price-performance ratio wise.

A14 is generally better in day to day use than A12X/Z. And no, the extra RAM in the Pros aren’t taking any benefits currently, except special use case such as extra layers on Procreate app (which I use). Extra GPU cores on the Pros also only give us better performance when playing heavy games connected to high resolution external displays.

So it starting to make sense the early reports and assumptions from many people predicting Apple won’t continue the IPP 11” line, it’s too close in comparison with the Air line currently. Unlike iPhone 12 vs 12 Pro that still has distinctive differences in cameras and body finishing. People just don’t care about cameras in iPads.

@snipr125 thanks for correctin me.

still: iPP over the Air4
600nits > 500
2388x1668 >2360x1640 (or similar but it’s slightly lower)
Battery 29.37 Whr > 28.6 Whr
2 more cores for graphics from a cpu that is 2 generations older pushing better performance here when the 5nm chip in the air should’ve in my opinion done much better, especially with battery performance given only the marginally smaller batter.

I guess we’re both happy ? but mine was a lot cheaper in immaculate used condition and came with Apple Pencil 2 ;) that’s where I’m seeing the flaw in the recommendation.

I’m not sure I like the squares camera bump of the 2020 IPPs and I pray Apple never goes back to rounded edges and bezels that curve under the back like that god ugly 10.5” iPP
 
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