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i agree. however, since when do the studios have any say over what device, a private citizen owns, watches fully legal video on?

Fact is, if this were to go to court, this would be an easy win for boxee/hulu. The studios would, ofcourse, quickly shut hulu down in that case...

I will never return to cable. Their crappy anti-consumer BS has lost me as a customer forever. I'll go back to reading papers before i'll pay for cable again. Fact is, no one "really" needs what cable has to offer. And nothing cable has to offer is of any kind of quality anyways...

I'm not a legal expert but I think you're way off. The studios would have control over what device the content is watched on because they own the content. I would think that they could then control where is displayed... if they didn't like it being on AppleTV via Hulu (likely because then people wouldn't be buying from iTunes) then they could tell Hulu to prevent that from working or they'll pull their content all together.
 
i agree. however, since when do the studios have any say over what device, a private citizen owns, watches fully legal video on?

Fully legal video depends on watching it on an authorised device.

Fact is, if this were to go to court, this would be an easy win for boxee/hulu. The studios would, ofcourse, quickly shut hulu down in that case...

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. As pointed out above, in many cases the studios don't even have these rights to offer themselves.

Phazer
 
I'm not a legal expert but I think you're way off. The studios would have control over what device the content is watched on because they own the content. I would think that they could then control where is displayed... if they didn't like it being on AppleTV via Hulu (likely because then people wouldn't be buying from iTunes) then they could tell Hulu to prevent that from working or they'll pull their content all together.

The studios have control over their content, not how you view it. They can release, say a dvd, but they can't dictate what type of DVD player you watch it on. On the internet side, they can release a digital copy and place DRM restrictions on it, but that is more the distributor's (eg. Apple's) enforcement than theirs.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. As pointed out above, in many cases the studios don't even have these rights to offer themselves.

Phazer

The studios absolutely own the rights, otherwise they couldn't put it on their own websites or offer it to websites like Hulu.
 
The studios absolutely own the rights, otherwise they couldn't put it on their own websites or offer it to websites like Hulu.

ahaha- and 50 years ago Banks actually owned the mortgages.

maybe studios own whatever analogue there is to "mortgage-backed securities" of their content, but the real deal's long been sold off.
 
The studios have control over their content, not how you view it. They can release, say a dvd, but they can't dictate what type of DVD player you watch it on.

They could do, if they wanted to. They would have to be careful how it was advertised, but they can dictate anything they like and it's your decision to accept that deal or not.

On the internet side, they can release a digital copy and place DRM restrictions on it, but that is more the distributor's (eg. Apple's) enforcement than theirs.

And they can decide what device to deliver it to - just as many companies block distribution to mobile platforms.

Look at the BBC - they stream Heroes to PCs, but it's blocked on the iPhone version of iPlayer, because they don't have the rights.

The studios absolutely own the rights, otherwise they couldn't put it on their own websites or offer it to websites like Hulu.

I can tell you now that they don't.

The types of rights you can own are many and varied. Unless the studios specifically took a right from the performers to send content to set top boxes as opposed to internet browsers, they don't have them. I explained all of this in my first post in this thread.

This is not supposition on my part.

Phazer
 
I'm not a legal expert on these matters, so I won't contest the arguments here as I don't know the facts. I however, seriously doubt any of the other posters are legal experts on this either (and none have offered evidence to support their claims)

That being said, if studio's believe (either legally or illegally) that they have the right, to tell me how I can watch a product that I have fully purchased, they can go to hell. They will not get any more money out of me. As I stated earlier, their "product" tends to suck anyways...
 
They could do, if they wanted to. They would have to be careful how it was advertised, but they can dictate anything they like and it's your decision to accept that deal or not.

Not really. Consumers have rights here in the US, not sure about the UK though. If I buy a car, Ford can't tell me to only drive it on Tuesdays.:rolleyes:

And they can decide what device to deliver it to - just as many companies block distribution to mobile platforms.

Look at the BBC - they stream Heroes to PCs, but it's blocked on the iPhone version of iPlayer, because they don't have the rights.

Maybe the BBC doesn't hold the international rights, but NBC sure does.

I can tell you now that they don't.

The types of rights you can own are many and varied. Unless the studios specifically took a right from the performers to send content to set top boxes as opposed to internet browsers, they don't have them. I explained all of this in my first post in this thread.

This is not supposition on my part.

Phazer

For an older show made before the advent of internet distribution, you might be right. These days, there's no studio who doesn't buy these rights from the outset. Unlike you and your example, the studios know what they're doing and don't "forget" or "not know" to dot their i's and cross their t's.
 
I'm not a legal expert on these matters, so I won't contest the arguments here as I don't know the facts. I however, seriously doubt any of the other posters are legal experts on this either (and none have offered evidence to support their claims)

I am. This is what I do for a living. I'm a broadcast rights consultant.

Tilpots said:
Not really. Consumers have rights here in the US, not sure about the UK though. If I buy a car, Ford can't tell me to only drive it on Tuesdays.

Ford would be absolutely within their legal rights in the US to tell you to only drive a car on Tuesdays. They don't own the calendar, so it couldn't be considered to be anti-competitive. As long as they were upfront about the restriction at the time of purchase and they had you sign a contract binding you to that condition that you clearly understood at the time of handing over the cash, then they would be completely in the clear to do so. A court might take issue with the level of penalty in a contract for being in breach of it, but not that a breach ocourred.

Likewise, the content providers involved here are many and varied. They don't own the internet browsers, so they are not being anti-competitive. Until you watch their advertising in the programme you haven't given them any financial consideration that might bind them in a contract, and they inform you that you can't watch the programme before that occurs. They are completely free to decide how and if to deliver media to you based on what you want to play it on. You as a consumer have the choice to buy your content from any of the millions of other legal providers if you don't like the terms.

That simple.

Maybe the BBC doesn't hold the international rights, but NBC sure does.
Indeed they do, because Heroes is sold to Apple for the iTunes store in the UK. But it is a good demonstration of how legally it is perfectly acceptable to split rights by the device intended for reception and sell them separately for different rates to different people. NBC sell the BBC rights to deliver to a set top box, but not to mobiles (or indeed the Wii, probably because it's a set top box…).

For an older show made before the advent of internet distribution, you might be right.

Which is the majority of shows on Hulu. And there's no guarantee the various content providers have any reliable database of where they have this right and where they don't, so they can't just remove the shows where they have no rights and have to pull everything.

And again, even when they do have the right, the residuals due to the actors etc concerned might not be the same in many cases. Video on demand generally attracts a different residual to internet distribution (as it's *generally* pay per view rather than advertising funded and has lower overheads once the network is built). Given many cable networks distribute VOD via IP, what VOD is will likely be defined in the contracts with the actors, writers etc by the reception device.

Phazer
 
I am. This is what I do for a living. I'm a broadcast rights consultant.

Then you should know better...

Ford would be absolutely within their legal rights in the US to tell you to only drive a car on Tuesdays. They don't own the calendar, so it couldn't be considered to be anti-competitive. As long as they were upfront about the restriction at the time of purchase and they had you sign a contract binding you to that condition that you clearly understood at the time of handing over the cash, then they would be completely in the clear to do so. A court might take issue with the level of penalty in a contract for being in breach of it, but not that a breach ocourred.

We're talking about viewers rights, not companies distribution rights. So, when was the last time you signed a contract to watch TV or a DVD?

Likewise, the content providers involved here are many and varied. They don't own the internet browsers, so they are not being anti-competitive. Until you watch their advertising in the programme you haven't given them any financial consideration that might bind them in a contract, and they inform you that you can't watch the programme before that occurs. They are completely free to decide how and if to deliver media to you based on what you want to play it on. You as a consumer have the choice to buy your content from any of the millions of other legal providers if you don't like the terms.

That simple.

You're talking in circles. Maybe you really are a lawyer.:eek:

Indeed they do, because Heroes is sold to Apple for the iTunes store in the UK. But it is a good demonstration of how legally it is perfectly acceptable to split rights by the device intended for reception and sell them separately for different rates to different people. NBC sell the BBC rights to deliver to a set top box, but not to mobiles (or indeed the Wii, probably because it's a set top box…).

Again, distribution rights. This has nothing to do with the viewer. For example, you DVR a show on your TV, then burn it to DVD and encode with handbrake to watch on any other device, you have broken no laws (at least here in the US). You can watch it wherever you wish, whenever you wish on whatever you wish. Even Tuesdays. ;)



Which is the majority of shows on Hulu. And there's no guarantee the various content providers have any reliable database of where they have this right and where they don't, so they can't just remove the shows where they have no rights and have to pull everything.

And again, even when they do have the right, the residuals due to the actors etc concerned might not be the same in many cases. Video on demand generally attracts a different residual to internet distribution (as it's *generally* pay per view rather than advertising funded and has lower overheads once the network is built). Given many cable networks distribute VOD via IP, what VOD is will likely be defined in the contracts with the actors, writers etc by the reception device.

Phazer

So how are stations like CBS not being sued for showing shows like MacGuyver, The Love Boat, and the like?
 
We're talking about viewers rights, not companies distribution rights. So, when was the last time you signed a contract to watch TV or a DVD?

I'd be required to sign a contract to watch most television, since I'd be signing a contract to pay for it. Likewise, DVD's come with an attached licence.

And more crucially, you sign a contract to use Hulu - http://www.hulu.com/terms

Hulu Terms and conditions said:
By visiting the Hulu Site (whether or not you are a registered member) or using any of the Hulu Services on any of the Sites, you are accepting this Terms of Use.

See?

You're talking in circles. Maybe you really are a lawyer.:eek:

I would suggest you try actually reading what I've written.

Again, distribution rights. This has nothing to do with the viewer.

Of course it does. The show is distributed to the viewer. Thus it is a distribution right.

For example, you DVR a show on your TV, then burn it to DVD and encode with handbrake to watch on any other device, you have broken no laws (at least here in the US). You can watch it wherever you wish, whenever you wish on whatever you wish. Even Tuesdays. ;)

Due to the specific exemption for this. But it is very specific. One would also note that it doesn't apply to most countries in the world (in the UK for instance, both the burning of the DVD and the encode with handbreak would be illegal. And keeping it for any significant length of time and watching it multiple times would also be illegal).

So how are stations like CBS not being sued for showing shows like MacGuyver, The Love Boat, and the like?

Because they have the specific distribution rights in those specific instances, or because they've really cocked up.

Both of which are entirely possible.

Phazer
 
If this thread has made anything clear, its that, along with the Financial Industry and the Music Industry, the Business models used by all party's involved here are severely flawed, and will die, bringing down most of the large studios, guilds, distribution companies...etc. It might take another 10-20 years, but it is inevitable.

In time, more people will realize how rigged and anti-consumer the models and laws really are, and will vote with their wallets. I don't expect them to learn (just look at Detroit), that's why these companies don't get a dime from me and never will.
 
For example, you DVR a show on your TV, then burn it to DVD and encode with handbrake to watch on any other device, you have broken no laws (at least here in the US). You can watch it wherever you wish, whenever you wish on whatever you wish.

Completely illegal here in the UK, without a shadow of a doubt.
 
Completely illegal here in the UK, without a shadow of a doubt.

Hmmm. This is straight from Tivo's website talking about what you can do with Nero LiquidTV. Is this not available in the UK?

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