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This is absolutely the classical definition of trolling and it may even classify as spam. AFAIK both trolling and spamming are against the rules here.

If his intent is only to enrage and agitate perhaps. But I doubt that is the case. Lots of folks, including me, have considered jumping off the MacPro market...because for years now...there hasn't been one.

You seem extremely hostile and fundamentalist about the topic.
 
A friend of mine runs a Pro Tools based recording studio and their Mac Pro gives them more headaches with Apple's never-ending cycle of OS updates than their Windows 7 PC does.

I'm not going to get into the debate about which is best. I am happy for the OP in fact I almost did the same thing, but I take issue with this post. We had to clean install Windows 7 64 bit last week as it BSOD. :mad:

When we had finished it had over 255 important and recommended updates (that I can remember) and one service pack. So please don't pretend that Windows doesn't have it's share of updates most of which are security updates...
 
A friend of mine runs a Pro Tools based recording studio and their Mac Pro gives them more headaches with Apple's never-ending cycle of OS updates than their Windows 7 PC does.

Pro Tools is finicky and people pretty much say, if you're system works, keep your current OS and only apply updates on a bootable backup to confirm everything works before you plunge straight in with updates.

So why didn't "your friend" follow that advice? Can you say immediate contradiction?

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Any and all of these emotionally blubbering self-pitying winey-baby threads could be deleted and it would only make this a nicer place to be.

Nicer places = boring places. Just look at most modern urban development. Yuck!
 
a bump in MHz makes and a faster SSD makes music sound better?

Nothing wrong with waiting or switching! :cool:
Nowhere in this post did the OP mention what software was being used
on that 2009 MP. Does the music sound better as a producer because you switched
from 16bit 44k to 24bit 48k? Now you can push your mixes and mastering?
Not sure if you are into the music scene but there is nothing I can not do with my setup that you can do with the 2009 or the PC.
Depending on what the OP was doing or trying to do with the 2009, an update may not have been needed. "I use my 2009 for music production and need x-amount of trks with x-amount of plugs"
Speaking of music, the "I'm tired of waiting" band wagon is quite full!
Check your intonation before hopping on! :p

MacPro 2008 3.1 | 14GB Ram | Quadro 4000 | MC6.0 | OS 10.6.8 | MOTU HDX-SDI | ATTO R644| LaCie 324
 
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I am glad you decided to go with a machine that takes you to that next level whether its Apple or WIndows or Linux or ....

The fact is clear and true - lots of Mac Pro users are tired of waiting. Some of us are waiting and using other computers (Mac and PC) and some remain with their present Mac Pro and hope for Apple to figure out what they want to do for a new Mac Pro.

In the meanwhile - USB 3 can be added via card which isn't as fast as Tbolt but certainly faster than FW800 and more universal.

For me - having had an earlier Mac Pro that Apple abandoned, I maxed it out, used it well and later sold it fully packed for multi-media. Any Mac Pro pre 2.x PCI standard is a bastard child of Apple. - So much for long term upgrade-ability.

Does the MP really need a Xeon and buffered RAM? Chances are the typical MP user doesn't need these features just the horsepower. Xeons really do have their place in rendering farms and distributed work networks and the like but not for a single on the desk MP. Does the MP need to be that large these days - NO. There are counterpart systems that are fairly powerful that are 2/3 the size and have the slots and place for drives.

Is OSX the latest and greatest OS? No. Remember, OSX is based on a Unix variant and Unix is decades old. However, Unix IS for the most part an effective operating system and certainly does well compared to Windows.

As usual Microsoft makes the world its pay to play beta testing group. Vista, Media Center editions, Win 8 and more - all mediocre if not terrible and leaving only XP and 7 as fully stable systems (though with short comings).

Presently, I use a Mac Mini and get by. I do like the interface in general of Mac far more than any Windows beyond XP. The interface reminds me of OS/2 which was an excellent operating system and very stable. I'll continue being in the OSX camp and also very happy to help my friends who are on Windows.

There was a time when people paid extra for a particular name brand because they slept better knowing that whatever they spent, they had a system they need not worry about. Apple doesn't sit in that venue nor do any other computer maker. Everyone went on the sly for cheap production and we see it now. MP were very solid units but the returns on them are minimal. Photoshop runs faster a similarly equipped Windows machine, games also in general run faster on Windows and certainly music software and video editing takes no advantage when on a typically built MP.

My "love" for the MP was in having a practical upgradable Mac. Seems that Apple is going more and more for a closed system and forcing people to either buy their "to spec" versions of their machines or depend on peripherals and thus further expand the literal footprint. Lets just hope the next MP includes Tbolt and USB3, perhaps superior graphics and audio and stop going on the cheap on certain facets of their hardware.

Btw - for those that blast those who have built systems you really do yourself a dis-service. The very best systems I have seen were "home built" and usually by gamers. Some had cases that were very elegant and solid as can be and some had put together what might be called true multi-media work systems with heavy duty graphics and audio performance cards that are NOT typical to Mac counterparts of any sort.

Since I am not a fan of the iPad on steroids iMac, I'll continue on with the Mini (16g RAM and 2xSSD) and wait for the next Mac Pro with a touch of distrust.
 
You do realize, that the hardware is the same since Apple went with Intel(fundamental circuit construction using the same commodity components)?

ARM too for that matter (what's used in the portable devices).

The only thing that separates a Mac at this point, is the physical appearance and software (most visible aspect is the GUI).

And quality of construction. Also, where is the PC retina laptop? The z800 running Ubuntu sitting here is a pita trying to run multple monitors and I cut my hand anytime I have to do anything inside it. It's not jst the appearance that's different.
 
If his intent is only to enrage and agitate perhaps. But I doubt that is the case. Lots of folks, including me, have considered jumping off the MacPro market...because for years now...there hasn't been one.

Intent - inschment... You can tell a tree by the fruit it bares. Just read the posts here... It's a whiney-baby complaint thread where everyone dumps their emotional content or speculates about things less important then the flavor of their Cheerios this morning. ;) Sure, whatever, it doesn't bother me - I know how to not not read a thread if needed but....

You seem extremely hostile and fundamentalist about the topic.

I was kinda sticking up for (and perhaps making excuses for) Mr. RoastingPig when I saw he became the subject of peer pressure to get in line and whine with the rest of the sucklings. He didn't display much resolve however so I fear my efforts were misplaced. :p


Nicer places = boring places. Just look at most modern urban development. Yuck!

Emotional drivel and wild meaningless speculation is interesting to you? Especially most of it here is entirely inaccurate as well... Mmmm-kay... :rolleyes:
 
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barkmonster wrote:

"A friend of mine runs a Pro Tools based recording studio and their Mac Pro gives them more headaches with Apple's never-ending cycle of OS updates than their Windows 7 PC does."

Just for the record, my pro audio dealer had so many problems with Windows tech support for Pro Tools audio systems that they stopped supporting Windows systems. They'll sell you the gear, but will no longer install it or stand behind it. This is not ideology or opinion. They were losing money trying to help their Windows clients keep their machines running.
 
So why didn't "your friend" follow that advice? Can you say immediate contradiction?

His friend could have checked Avid's site prior to updating. Developers with highly specific requirements will generally do some testing and list bugs under a specific OS revision. At the very least it's possible to check their forums and allow other users to do the beta testing.
 
Been there, done that

In essence, I'm with Tessalator as far as the threat being a divisive one. It starts out with a 'see you suckers' tone, but enough about that. To each his own.

I have been with Apple since the Apple IIc. I've lost track of how many computers I have had, but I even stuck with them through the 90s when 'extensions' were becoming a nightmare, etc.

Three times since the 80s, my family or myself have gotten tired of overpaying for Apple products, or more likely, of not being able to get a program we wanted. I have had an Acer, a Dell, and I forgot what the other PC was. None of these switches lasted beyond about 3 months. I like it when my computer serves at my pleasure, not the other way around. I recognize that Microsoft has come a long way, but quite frankly I think they're going the wrong direction now.

Frustrated with Apple's move towards away from the traditional finder towards automating everything, I explored Windows again recently. As best I can tell, MSFT took everything that annoyed me about Apple and amplified it ten times.

I'm supposed to get my brand spankin' new three year old 12 core in the mail tomorrow. Too bad I have to work until Tuesday evening :mad:
 
good for you, i'll be chillin with my new mac pro while you dingle with some ugly plastic stupid os machine.

That's mature. :rolleyes:

Some people legitimately need performance, and a 3 year old machine doesn't cut it. No need to act like a child.

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What's so confusing?

I'd rather sit on a comfy leather recliner than a bar stool, drive a audi rather than a kia, use a nice bike instead of a department store bike, use snap-on tools instead of harbor freight junk.

Even if that audi tops out at 40 mph while the kia does 80?
 
Use the hardware and software that best suites your needs.

You do realize, that the hardware is the same since Apple went with Intel(fundamental circuit construction using the same commodity components)?

ARM too for that matter (what's used in the portable devices).

The only thing that separates a Mac at this point, is the physical appearance and software (most visible aspect is the GUI).

Right on. The hardware that can run Unix, Linux, OSX, Windows, etc. is now virtually indistinguishable. In the olden days when Intel stood in one corner and Motorola and IBM traded turns in the opposite corner (IBM then also traded turns with Intel and also stood in a parallel corner all by itself) there may have been a reason to profess, "I'm a Mac" or "I'm a PC" but those days and that commercial's time has long since passed. The OSes are now and have always been just the tables on which tools - applications - are laid. I still have old and new tables labeled, "For OSX, Linux, Windows, AmigaOS and/or AtariOS" and some of these tables have more than one OS on them - those are the ones that are most flexible. Though as nanofrog points out different system categories can have differing appearances (most visible thru the GUI), but even that is just an abstraction covering up the reality that any one who now says, "I'm a Mac," would be just as accurate if he/she had said, "I'm an outdated PC on which OSX runs." That point is proven by my four Mac Pros, as well as the vast number of threads, posts and PMs I see from many reacting to, doing or desiring to do what Apple refuses to do, and that is stay hardware current with other manufacturers of heavy duty PCs.

Here's a collage of a few of my current workbenches, some of which may be as old as some of you are young. They include members of my WolfPack clans (self-builds - Sandy Bridge dual 2687W, EVGA SR-2, and 32-core/quad CPU/E5-4650s), Dell Precision 480s and 530s, Atari TT040, Amiga 500/1200/Video Toaster/68040, Power Mac 7500/G4, HP Pavillion, Power Mac G5, Mac Pro 2009, Power PC 8500s/G4s, MacBook Pro 2008, Power Mac 9600/200/G4, iMac, PowerBook G3, Power Mac G3, Power Mac G4, Power PC 8100/80s, Power Computing Power Center Pro 180 and Power PC 8500s/120/G4s. The key for me is (1) to be thankful for what I've got, (2) to know how to keep it running smoothly, (3) to get it to talk with the other systems, (4) to upgrade it to its fullest potential and (5) to use its fullest potential productively to achieve my fullest potential. So I can understand the OP's frustration with Apple, but would encourage him to take charge and make the decision that's right for him.
 

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I'm not going to get into the debate about which is best. I am happy for the OP in fact I almost did the same thing, but I take issue with this post. We had to clean install Windows 7 64 bit last week as it BSOD. :mad:

When we had finished it had over 255 important and recommended updates (that I can remember) and one service pack. So please don't pretend that Windows doesn't have it's share of updates most of which are security updates...

I'm not pretending anything.

My friend knows what a lifetime Mac person I am and was just pointing it out to me. I know personally, I'm happy with a system that just works and for me that's 10.6.8, Pro Tools LE 8.0.5 and Reason.

Once I can afford the updates to Pro Tools 10 (or 11 by then) and Reason 7, I can think about looking at a newer Mac running a more recent OS version.

You can take issue because you find the idea of windows being stable and the Mac being the problem system in one rare circumstance unusual out of brand-loyalty but I wasn't intending to insult anyone's OS preferences because I'm a 100% Mac person myself, it's just a fact I thought needed sharing.

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So why didn't "your friend" follow that advice? Can you say immediate contradiction?

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I'd file that under "his problem" or "his lack of commonsense" personally :p
 
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...any one who now says, "I'm a Mac," would be just as accurate if he/she had said, "I'm an outdated PC on which OSX runs."

:D Hehehe... :rolleyes:

Also your collage looks pretty much identical to one of the shelves in my storage room - Toaster and all. My other shelves are more along the SGI/SUN/NEXT lines. :D Fun stuff ain't it! You seem to be missing a few mini's from the 60's and 70's tho. :D
 
:D My other shelves are more along the SGI/SUN/NEXT lines. :D Fun stuff ain't it! You seem to be missing a few mini's from the 60's and 70's tho. :D
When the 60's closed, the only computer that I had seen was in sci-fi movies. I still have my blazing HeathKit Computer (or should I say calculator) from the 70's. Back in the day, I wanted SGI/SUN/NEXT computers, but just couldn't afford to buy any of them. I still have my wickedly fast Mac IIfx - a $12k computer that was given to me by a computer repair shop that couldn't fix it, but I did and it still runs like a champ.
 
When the 60's closed, the only computer that I had seen was in sci-fi movies. I still have my blazing HeathKit Computer (or should I say calculator) from the 70's. Back in the day, I wanted SGI/SUN/NEXT computers, but just couldn't afford to buy any of them. I still have my wickedly fast Mac IIfx - a $12k computer that was given to me by a computer repair shop that couldn't fix it, but I did and it still runs like a champ.

I worked on a IIfx for a whole year and a half as the manager of a page layout house. All the Pee-ons had IIcx and our print server was a Mac Classic. :) All the user and technical manuals for Yamaha and Kawai keyboards, brother printers, Epson scanners, Toyota small cars & trucks, and a bunch of stuff for Buffalo electronics goods were layed out on those machines in MANY different languages. About that time we started making corporate videos and thus the Amiga Toaster combo. I guess that was like '91 or so. So not all that long ago really. I worked at NewTek too tho more recently and on LightWave3D not the Toaster... Nice company - great folks!!
 
I'm not pretending anything.

My friend know what a lifetime Mac person I am and was just pointing it out to me. I know personally, I'm happy with a system that just works and for me that's 10.6.8, Pro Tools LE 8.0.5 and Reason.

Once I can afford the updates to Pro Tools 10 (or 11 by then) and Reason 7, I can think about looking at a newer Mac running a more recent OS version.

You can take issue because you find the idea of windows being stable and the Mac being the problem system in one rare circumstance unusual out of brand-loyalty but I wasn't intending to insult anyone's OS preferences because I'm a 100% Mac person myself, it's just a fact I thought needed sharing.

I didn't intend for my post to be aggressive in anyway so I apologize if it seemed that way. I have no loyalty to :apple: in fact I'm thinking of switching over to a Windows based workstation myself. I just found your post slightly disingenuous. Perhaps I misjudged what you were trying to say maybe your experience differs from mine. I have no issues with software/system updates on my Mac computers, I find they are few and far between.:)
 
I didn't intend for my post to be aggressive in anyway so I apologize if it seemed that way. I have no loyalty to :apple: in fact I'm thinking of switching over to a Windows based workstation myself. I just found your post slightly disingenuous. Perhaps I misjudged what you were trying to say maybe your experience differs from mine. I have no issues with software/system updates on my Mac computers, I find they are few and far between.:)

I didn't find it agressive. I was just making sure my reply to it didn't come off that way. Totally crosswires there on both sides I think. Sorry about that :eek:

Pro Tools seems to be a dog of system apart from it's user interface. The forums on avids website are worth reading through just to see precicely how many problems people can have with it on both platforms so for the windows version to behave better than the Mac version after an system update, it really goes to show that porting it over windows after it being a Mac only system for years then presumably porting the windows code back to the Mac once they needed it to run on intel Macs seems to be problematic for Avid. The interface and usability of it is top notch which is how it remains the industry standard even with software like Logic and DSP systems from Universal Audio available to compete with it.
 
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. Any Mac Pro pre 2.x PCI standard is a bastard child of Apple. - So much for long term upgrade-ability.

PCI v 2.0 came out in 1993 more than a decade before any model with the label 'Mac Pro' ever appeared, so I'm going to assume you are trying to talk about PCI-e v2.0 ( circa 2008 models). All system vendors who built PCI-e 1.0-1.1 workstation have limited long term upgrade-ability. Frankly, most Windows PCs from that era have BIOS which means they can't even deal with 3TB hard drives. So narrowing this down to Apple is suspect.


Does the MP really need a Xeon and buffered RAM?

The current MP (since 2009 ) doesn't have buffered RAM. Again perhaps talking about ECC but ...


Chances are the typical MP user doesn't need these features just the horsepower.

Not really. The more RAM you have the more likely there will be an error. If you have 4 HDDs and go to 8 HDDs the likelihood that one of those will fail goes up. Same is true with RAM locations. Go from single digits to mid-high double digit or low triple digit GB RAM sizes and the probability of an error is going up.

It also depends on how valuable the data is. If individual bits of data are practically worthless then it probably doesn't pay to protect them if it doesn't make a difference to anyone.


There are counterpart systems that are fairly powerful that are 2/3 the size and have the slots and place for drives.

It isn't really a counterpart if significantly changing the "horsepower". Part of the size difference is from the power dissipation needs that are higher.


Is OSX the latest and greatest OS? No. Remember, OSX is based on a Unix variant and Unix is decades old.

Perhaps mean decades older or more accurately over a decade older? At this point, Windows is decades old. (the kernels and libraries for all of these have significantly changed over the years which is what really matters. )

However, Unix IS for the most part an effective operating system and certainly does well compared to Windows.

Yes, as the competitive pressures Microsoft feels from Android and iOS attest.


Lets just hope the next MP includes Tbolt and USB3, perhaps superior graphics and audio and stop going on the cheap on certain facets of their hardware.

The next MP probably has core chipset Intel audio; just like other Macs have transitioned to. There are PCI-e card, USB , and FW options for those who are highly selective about their audio processing.


Btw - for those that blast those who have built systems you really do yourself a dis-service. The very best systems I have seen were "home built" and usually by gamers.

The "best" is typically not the same criteria as to what Apple bounds the Mac Pro. Typically this is an "Apples versus Oranges" comparision where the home built crowd claim have an equivalent when it is not . The other subset is those who are making the case for a product that Apple doesn't sell. (xMac , gamer niche box , etc. )


Since I am not a fan of the iPad on steroids iMac, I'll continue on with the Mini (16g RAM and 2xSSD) and wait for the next Mac Pro with a touch of distrust.

There is no way the iPad is in a similar class as an iMac. Battery powered vs. not. Size not even close. Touch screen vs. not (if get a bundled trackpad can touch but it is not the screen ). single I/O port versus several. RAM soldered to motherboard vs. not. limited to relatively smaller flash smaller sizes vs. high end HDD class storage size.

The "form over function" arguments are weak when used in same context as "best performance".
 
And the thing about an operating system is that you're never ever supposed to see it. Because nobody really uses an operating system; people use programs on their computer. And the only mission in life of an operating system is to help those programs run.--Linus Torvalds

I've posted this before and I have a feeling I'll be posting it again
 
And the thing about an operating system is that you're never ever supposed to see it. Because nobody really uses an operating system; people use programs on their computer. And the only mission in life of an operating system is to help those programs run.--Linus Torvalds

I've posted this before and I have a feeling I'll be posting it again

I certainly appreciate the spirit of that quote, but file management probably absorbs 30% of my time in motion design and is my biggest hesitancy to pull the trigger on a z820. I would certainly survive but would really miss OSX's search/Spotlight functionality. Version control is a nightmare in post production.
 
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