No more nvidia chips in Apple's computer line

[ActionableMango]

IMO, and this is bound to attract vehement denial from the GPU enthusiasts here, the dGPU is either going the way of the co-processor or the dedicated audio card.

I recall many articles and forum threads about PC gaming dying. It was based on data showing a decline in PC sales, dGPU sales, and PC game sales. But, correct me if it's wrong, I've also read that the latter two (dGPU and PC game sales) have turned around in a huge way in the last couple of years.

So I don't know whether this current sales increase is a long (but temporary) bump in an overall decline, or merely an indicator that sales are cyclic. Or heck, maybe it was the decrease in sales that was temporary, due to something like the lengthy economic recession, and everything is actually recovering. Time will tell.

 

[goMac]

In essence: Metal looks like directly designed for Nvidia hardware. But that maybe in future will become much more apparent.

Uhhhh. That definitely needs an explanation. It looks a lot like OpenCL designed for Apple's ARM processors.

 

[ActionableMango]

Hmmm. I have now seen people state that Metal is all about AMD, that Metal is all about Nvidia, and that Metal is all about ARM.

 

[OS6-OSX]

Nvidia v. AMD!

 

[goMac]

Hmmm. I have now seen people state that Metal is all about AMD, that Metal is all about Nvidia, and that Metal is all about ARM.

Metal isn't really great at anything except for small scale, embedded GPUs so I think it's kind of funny whenever someone says it's tailor made for AMD or Nvidia cards. It's a DirectX 9 level API for graphics. If by being tailor made for Nvidia you mean it's tailored for a GeForce 7800, than sure, sure it is.

(Yes, I know that it won't actually work on a GeForce 7800. But that's about the capability level of it.)

 

[MacVidCards]

that a screw was rare and named 'security' 40 years ago doesn't mean much today..
50 years ago, the torx head was a 'security' screwhead.. times change.. people realized torx head offers plenty more advantages beyond security and the type has become standard.

(sidenote- in the same way i don't think you know what 'user friendly' means.. i also don't think you know what 'standard' means)

torx has another version of screw that's being used as their security head since the 90s(?).. it's non-standard and you don't walk into any old store to buy the tools to use them..
likewise, and i don't understand why you don't recognize this point-- apple themselves have designed a security screw.. it's used on nearly every one of their products.. not on mac pros

I see we have a reading comprehension issue so I'm going to help out.

With some nice, pretty color pictures !

Question: What tools are needed to replace the GPU in a cMP?

Answer: None other then fingers.

With cMP the only hardware used to hold down GPUs are latches and 2 @ thumbscrews. They have knurled edges for an easy grip. So, the answer is ZERO TOOLS NEEDED.

Question: What tools are needed to replace the GPU in a nMP?

Answer: 2 different Torx wrenches, a standard one and a Security one.

After disconnecting everything from machine, you still need 2 different wrenches to remove GPU. You need a standard Torx for the 4 screws on the X-brace, and then a different Torx Security wrench for the two tamper resistant screws. This is the part I guess you aren't getting. They are in fact the same size as the 4 main screws, but they have a little tiny piece of steel poking up the center, driving your standard Torx bit out and not allowing it to get a grip.

If Apple had really and truly wanted to make these easy to remove, why not just use the same knurled thumb screws like before? If this is hard to think about, I took a picture of wha that would look like. I also photographed the old hardware with one of the security screws from nMP. Which one looks easier to use? Which one would be called a "standard user friendly screw"?

People aren't idiots, looking at these pictures make it pretty clear where the truth lies.

mvc- I get it that you're goal is to make me look like and ass to people here and you've succeeded.

Finally, something we agree on.

 

[goMac]

I actually think standard Torx screws is a good sign.

The thermal paste isn't a good sign, though.

 

[MacVidCards]

I actually think standard Torx screws is a good sign.

The thermal paste isn't a good sign, though.

Am I not making this clear enough?

4 regular Torx per GPU, then 2 Security Torx, per GPU.

 

[goMac]

Am I not making this clear enough?

4 regular Torx per GPU, then 2 Security Torx, per GPU.

Oh, I missed the security Torx. Then no. There's no way in hell Apple intended these things to be user serviceable. Store serviceable maybe but not user serviceable.

 

[MacVidCards]

Oh, I missed the security Torx. Then no. There's no way in hell Apple intended these things to be user serviceable. Store serviceable maybe but not user serviceable.

Thank you !

I have been feeling like I was the only sane person in a lunatic asylum. When you WANT people to take things apart, you don't put SECURITY, ANTI-TAMPER screws in it. By definition, this is the OPPOSITE of "User Friendly".

 

[p.l]

Why do you keep bothering to argue? Its the 3 thread over the same point.
There not user serviceable I'm certain the whole community knows that...
It seems to me he is enjoying getting you frustrated (not that it takes much sometimes)

 

[Demigod Mac]

Can be narrowed down to one simple question for flat:

Why did Apple go with security Torx instead of basic Torx?

 

[MacVidCards]

Can be narrowed down to one simple question for flat:

Why did Apple go with security Torx instead of basic Torx?

He'll wriggle and squirm and make some outrageous, nonsensical claim. Easier to stretch credibility then admit he has spent 2 1/2 years spewing gibberish about "It's the screws !"

 

[p.l]

He'll wriggle and squirm and make some outrageous, nonsensical claim. Easier to stretch credibility then admit he has spent 2 1/2 years spewing gibberish about "It's the screws !"

And forgot to mention the 10 paragraph post that goes nowhere...

 

[ActionableMango]

There not user serviceable I'm certain the whole community knows that...

Yes. Well, the whole community except for one person.

The other obvious fact that these aren't user serviceable is that the GPU boards themselves are not available as spares. I've seen people say that even an authorized repair shop has turn in a dead board before they can get a replacement board. And at least twice now I've seen posts from people who couldn't even get replacement boards for dead GPUs on a warrantied nMP because they are backordered from the mothership.

The whole "must turn in a dead board to get a new board" thing shows Apple is being a massive control freak about these boards. It's bizarre because I can't imagine that strict control over nMP GPU boards amounts to a millimousefart's worth of Apple revenue.

 

[AidenShaw]

I actually think standard Torx screws is a good sign.

Yes, it is. Most people don't realize that Philips screw heads are deliberately designed to slip (and strip) under torque. (http://woodworking.about.com/od/toolsequipment/p/TorxBits.htm)

The security Torx are an anti-user step, similar to the pentalobular screws that Apple has used to discourage user-serviceability on other devices. http://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-plan-to-screw-your-iphone/

 

[MacVidCards]

The security Torx are an anti-user step, similar to the pentalobular screws that Apple has used to discourage user-serviceability on other devices. http://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-plan-to-screw-your-iphone/

Oh, I missed the security Torx. Then no. There's no way in hell Apple intended these things to be user serviceable. Store serviceable maybe but not user serviceable.

Wait, so you guys are saying that these aren't "the most user friendly standard screws available."?

Oh, someone is going to be upset.

 

[Demigod Mac]

It's only not user-serviceable if you have to crack the machine open with a sledgehammer to get inside.

Oh wait. They sell those at Wal-Mart too. Nevermind.

 

[AidenShaw]

Wait, so you guys are saying that these aren't "the most user friendly standard screws available."?

Oh, someone is going to be upset.

He'll have to argue with ifixit ....

 

[flat five]

and then a different Torx Security wrench for the two tamper resistant screws. This is the part I guess you aren't getting.

why do you think i'm not getting that? the first time they were mentioned, i responded back with links to those exact bits.. i get what you're saying.
here's the thing-- even if every one of those screws was security torx, i'd still be saying the same thing..
the things are standard.. anyone can make/sell/buy them.
if you're going to the store to buy a torx screw, look right next to them and there are the security torx.. you don't have to go to the secret back room at home depot to buy them.. you do exactly nothing different to buy a security torx than you would for a regular torx other than move your arm over 4" to the next rack.. it's very likely anybody with a little homeowner helper (ie- crappy) variety pack already owns these bits..
even the smaller sets that aren't "101 bits for the newlywed handyman".. include security torx.

this is pretty painful to watch some of you going crazy over 'SECURITY' screws.. you're simply hung up on the name.. that is it.. seriously, this screw bit is very easily and readily obtainable.. if you're interested in purchasing a screw with emphasis on security, please do not choose this head..
but hey, i get it.. if you're freaking on 'SECURITY TORX' then it's apparent you're probably not a builder/handyman/electrician/mechanic/carpenter/ or any sort of technician.. so i'll give you pass.. still painful to watch though.

After disconnecting everything from machine, you still need 2 different wrenches to remove GPU.

slight correction & pro-tip..
for lighter duty work, use security torx for everything.. you'd only need one screwdriver that way.
(they'll break if you're doing that with heavier duty stuff requiring additional torque but fine for most electronics)

Can be narrowed down to one simple question for flat:

Why did Apple go with security Torx instead of basic Torx?

because when you take those out, you're about to peel the thermal paste.. they're also one of the more risky screws to remove as they're attached to the power.. over-torquing will potential twist the connection.

it's a measure to ensure the user has, at the very least, a dedicated tool required to remove these screws instead of just someone poking around in there with a slotted screwdriver*.. once they're out, they don't just go back in and the computer works just like before (as would happen with all the other screws).. you must now reapply thermal paste.

*pro-tip 2.. you can, in a pinch, use a flathead screwdriver on torx screw heads.. the pin prevents this from happening.
maybe they should change the name from SECURITY torx to idiot-proof torx ; )

 

[AidenShaw]

It's only not user-serviceable if you have to crack the machine open with a sledgehammer to get inside.

Oh wait. They sell those at Wal-Mart too. Nevermind.

Isn't it kind of begging the question if you have to buy a $40 bit kit at Walmart to simply open up your new Apple.

And the $40 kit that you bought for the last Apple doesn't have the new bits needed for the new Apple.

Standard Torx bits are cheap and available everywhere. Which is why Apple picks hard-to-find bits.

 

[flat five]

Yes. Well, the whole community except for one person.

or maybe only one person can see further than tomorrow.

fast-forward to 2020.. visit this forum.
what's it going to look like?
everybody sitting around asking questions like "i just bought a 6.1 on craigslist and the psu is blown..any good service centers in bfe that can replace it for me?"
-or-
"how do i change my psu?" ..then someone tells them how
?

 

[MacVidCards]

why do you think i'm not getting that? the first time they were mentioned, i responded back with links to those exact bits.. i get what you're saying.
here's the thing-- even if every one of those screws was security torx, i'd still be saying the same thing..
the things are standard.. anyone can make/sell/buy them.
if you're going to the store to buy a torx screw, look right next to them and there are the security torx.. you don't have to go to the secret back room at home depot to buy them.. you do exactly nothing different to buy a security torx than you would for a regular torx other than move your arm over 4" to the next rack.. it's very likely anybody with a little homeowner helper (ie- crappy) variety pack already owns these bits..
even the smaller sets that aren't "101 bits for the newlywed handyman".. include security torx.

View attachment 592907

this is pretty painful to watch some of you going crazy over 'SECURITY' screws.. you're simply hung up on the name.. that is it.. seriously, this screw bit is very easily and readily obtainable.. if you're interested in purchasing a screw with emphasis on security, please do not choose this head..
but hey, i get it.. if you're freaking on 'SECURITY TORX' then it's apparent you're probably not a builder/handyman/electrician/mechanic/carpenter/ or any sort of technician.. so i'll give you pass.. still painful to watch though.


slight correction & pro-tip..
for lighter duty work, use security torx for everything.. you'd only need one screwdriver that way.
(they'll break if you're doing that with heavier duty stuff requiring additional torque but fine for most electronics)




because when you take those out, you're about to peel the thermal paste.. they're also one of the more risky screws to remove as they're attached to the power.. over-torquing will potential twist the connection.

it's a measure to ensure the user has, at the very least, a dedicated tool required to remove these screws instead of just someone poking around in there with a slotted screwdriver*.. once they're out, they don't just go back in and the computer works just like before (as would happen with all the other screws).. you must now reapply thermal paste.

*pro-tip 2.. you can, in a pinch, use a flathead screwdriver on torx screw heads.. the pin prevents this from happening.
maybe they should change the name from SECURITY torx to idiot-proof torx ; )

There he was, could come clean or stick with the gibberish and.....he DOUBLES DOWN on the gibberish.

I don't usually like broad, over arching statements, but I'm pretty sure that you are the one and only person on the planet who could, with a straight face, call a tamper resistant (i.e., KEEP OUT) screws "the most user friendly standard screws available."

And I mean that, I doubt very much that you could find a single, solitary person on the planet who could look at one and say 'Wow, that is "the most user friendly standard screw available."

In fact, when iFixit found that the 2012 Mini's ease of repair was blocked in the 2014 model by security torx screws they said: “Sometimes we just don't understand what goes on in hardware designers' ... “Apple took one of their most-fixable, most-upgradable products and broke it."

I'm guessing that they didn't know that those are "the most user friendly standard screws available."

or maybe only one person can see further than tomorrow.

Ah, the lone visionary. Napoleon felt the same way.

 

[flat five]

Which one looks easier to use?

dunno.. you tell me:




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or


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let's try not to forget apple has made expansion much (much!) more simple and user friendly than cmp.

we can battle all day long about how easy or hard the thing is to take apart or how much more simple it may have been to put a gpu in a cmp.. but if the topic is user friendliness while extending capabilities, the nmp is the much better example for easy access to pci.

 

[knowhate]

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