Good article on nv vs amd in dx12/vulkan http://ext3h.makegames.de/DX12_Compute.html
keep in mind nmp has old gcn 1.0 gpus
keep in mind nmp has old gcn 1.0 gpus
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No more nvidia chips in Apple's computer line
- Thread starter netkas
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Security torx bits are just as inexpensive. They can be picked up from Amazon, Home Depot, Sears, etc. Head over to Home Depot and search for "torx security" and you'll find all kinds of offerings available. Why they're called "security" or "tamper" resistant is beyond me when they're no more difficult to obtain than a standard torx bit. Perhaps at one point they were more difficult to obtain but they've been easy to obtain ever since the nMP has been released (I've had my set for over five years).
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If they didn't want it to be user replaceable they would have used something other than a security torx as there is absolutely zero, none, nada, zip, zilch, big ol goose egg, security to be had by using a security torx.
Then why not use regular torx?
I get that you're saying security torx is no more secure. But every secure bit is available on the market, so it's kind of meaningless. I could say the screws Apple uses in iPhones implies that the iPhone is meant to be user serviceable because I can find those bits too.
I'm sure Apple had their reasons and I suspect it had nothing to do with preventing people from removing these screws. Apple would have to be very naive to think people couldn't easily obtain security torx bits.
I can't speak to whether Apple intended people to change these GPUs or not but I don't think we can reach the conclusion they did not merely based on the fact they used a "security" screw given tools to remove said screw are easily obtainable.
Users are less likely to have a security screwdriver on-hand than the regular one; they'd have to go out of their way to get one.
Increases probability that Curious Joe Sixpack would give up halfway through tinkering with his nMP and instead take it to the Apple Geniuses. Decreases probability that he would mess it up, void the warranty yet still demand AppleCare. Bottom line is, Apple added an impediment to users being able to access the deeper internals of the nMP, however small.
Don't think anything else needs to be said on the issue.
Increases probability that Curious Joe Sixpack would give up halfway through tinkering with his nMP and instead take it to the Apple Geniuses. Decreases probability that he would mess it up, void the warranty yet still demand AppleCare. Bottom line is, Apple added an impediment to users being able to access the deeper internals of the nMP, however small.
Don't think anything else needs to be said on the issue.
Go out of their way to get one translates into jumping in the car and heading to Home Depot to pick one up. Exactly the same process I go through when I don't have the correct tool when working on my car.
isn't that what i told you here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...es-computer-line.1928218/page-4#post-22093083
"""
it's a measure to ensure the user has, at the very least, a dedicated tool required to remove these screws instead of just someone poking around in there with a slotted screwdriver*.. once they're out, they don't just go back in and the computer works just like before (as would happen with all the other screws).. you must now reapply thermal paste.
*pro-tip 2.. you can, in a pinch, use a flathead screwdriver on torx screw heads.. the pin prevents this from happening.
maybe they should change the name from SECURITY torx to idiot-proof torx ; ) """
?
it's likely apple (or any manufacturer) would prefer to use security torx on all screws instead of mix&matching like they did in order to prevent someone digging around in there with a slotted driver on a whim.. thing is, torx are superior to the pinned version as the tips will last longer and are less susceptible to breaking/bending.. with torx, the tip is solid.. security has a hole drilled in the middle which weakens the bit.. from a production line standpoint, you'd definitely rather be using the normal torx.
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lol
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TO ALL:
The title says "No more nvidia chips in Apple's computer line"
Some pages now, we're talking about torx and tools to open the nMP case internals. If I were working at Apple, I would laugh my ass out with this discussion.
Enough.
Back to Topic
The title says "No more nvidia chips in Apple's computer line"
Some pages now, we're talking about torx and tools to open the nMP case internals. If I were working at Apple, I would laugh my ass out with this discussion.
Enough.
Back to Topic
Right, but one faction was arguing that the physical act of using the screwdriver is all that matters pertaining to "user friendliness", whereas others were arguing that the fact most users wouldn't have one on-hand and would have to 1) figure out what they need 2) obtain one also matters. Making the whole experience less user friendly because it adds extra steps. Meaning that Apple wanted to impede people from tinkering with the internals beyond the RAM and SSD. Which was the whole point of debate in that thread. And another reason why it's less likely they will ever offer officially supported, Apple-sanctioned internal video card upgrades for nMP.
OK, I think we can put this whole debate to bed with this. From Apple's Mac Pro guide:
Team User-Unfriendly Screws was correct and Apple's documentation supports this.
Team User-Unfriendly Screws was correct and Apple's documentation supports this.
what's with all the "So I see we are all in agreement on this point --- Don't think anything else needs to be said on the issue. ---- I think we can put this whole debate to bed with this." stuff ?
for reference on your above point..
http://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1639/en_US/mac_pro_mid2012_ug.pdf
ssdd
do you not find conflict in the fact that your team leader.. mvc.. has upgraded his cpu in a nmp ?
the team virtues are seeming kinda off at this point.
See: "Apple recommends" vs "Do Not" in the cMP and nMP documentation.
Further, pages 74-78 on the cMP docs tell the end user how to install PCIe cards, in full detail.
No such documentation on the nMP - just a bolded Do Not warning.
No such documentation on the nMP - just a bolded Do Not warning.
you want to know what's so freaking weird about these conversations--
Team User-Unfriendly Screws is the group of people who would like to be able to work on their computer hardware.. either as an extension of life or to simply service it themselves when/if a component breaks.
is that right?
all (or most) of my arguments are saying.. "hey.. you guys can work on these things.. they aren't sealed systems".
as in, i'm arguing on your behalf.. i'm arguing for what you want.. i'm saying something positive towards your wishes.
do you see that?
it's just so weird to me that the people saying 'we want to be able to service our computers ourselves'.. and now, the people that are already upgrading nmp components...
are putting up such a fight about nmp has not been designed to be user serviceable.. it's twilight zone.
i think it's 'off'.. laugh it off.
but your version is maybe more funny.
think i'm going to switch to that.
; )
To the sane and logical folks out there.
As has been evidenced on many, MANY occasions on this board and now MULTIPLE gibbering nonsensical rants in this very thread, we can't win the discussion despite the obvious facts. When you have an opponent who is incapable of admitting defeat you have to just stop feeding the troll.
And at the end of the day, even after you've gone to the trouble to source the security "tamper resistant" torx drive and pulled the junky old Dx00 off, you end up doing what I did. You look at it, say "huh", and sadly put it back in your beautifully engineered and insanely overpriced can. Because whether it snaps in with velcro or is mig-welded in makes no difference. There is NOTHING to replace your Dx00 with. I looked on EBay and Amazon the other day, not a single one of the 4 year old GPUs was available. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. Apple WILL NOT SELL YOU ONE.
There may be some at one of the scrapyard dealers but paying full retail for a 4 year old used GPU is a bad value to say the least. Far better use of money would be to buy a sonnet 3D TB chassis and put a REAL GPU in there. Netkas and I have made real progress on this front.
Yesterday I did ten boots in a row with my now 12 Core nMP with my 4K Panasonic TV with a Titan-X All ten boots had boot screen and got to OSX desktop which moved like butter. The only reason I even discovered the security "tamper resistant" screws was because I wanted to see if I could rid the Mac of one of the AMD boat anchors to let the 12 core get more power since the heat & power budget is so artificially constrained. Sadly it requires both of them to boot.
So, like everyone else who procures the security "tamper resistant" torx bits and pulls the Dx00 out, I sadly just had to put it right back in. But the Titan-X leaves them in the dust anyway.
Would be great if Nvidia had their Mobil division fab some MXM to nMP daughter cards. They could sell a kit with all the parts to put modern GPUs in there. Heck, they could even include the security "tamper resistant" torx bit.
As has been evidenced on many, MANY occasions on this board and now MULTIPLE gibbering nonsensical rants in this very thread, we can't win the discussion despite the obvious facts. When you have an opponent who is incapable of admitting defeat you have to just stop feeding the troll.
And at the end of the day, even after you've gone to the trouble to source the security "tamper resistant" torx drive and pulled the junky old Dx00 off, you end up doing what I did. You look at it, say "huh", and sadly put it back in your beautifully engineered and insanely overpriced can. Because whether it snaps in with velcro or is mig-welded in makes no difference. There is NOTHING to replace your Dx00 with. I looked on EBay and Amazon the other day, not a single one of the 4 year old GPUs was available. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. Apple WILL NOT SELL YOU ONE.
There may be some at one of the scrapyard dealers but paying full retail for a 4 year old used GPU is a bad value to say the least. Far better use of money would be to buy a sonnet 3D TB chassis and put a REAL GPU in there. Netkas and I have made real progress on this front.
Yesterday I did ten boots in a row with my now 12 Core nMP with my 4K Panasonic TV with a Titan-X All ten boots had boot screen and got to OSX desktop which moved like butter. The only reason I even discovered the security "tamper resistant" screws was because I wanted to see if I could rid the Mac of one of the AMD boat anchors to let the 12 core get more power since the heat & power budget is so artificially constrained. Sadly it requires both of them to boot.
So, like everyone else who procures the security "tamper resistant" torx bits and pulls the Dx00 out, I sadly just had to put it right back in. But the Titan-X leaves them in the dust anyway.
Would be great if Nvidia had their Mobil division fab some MXM to nMP daughter cards. They could sell a kit with all the parts to put modern GPUs in there. Heck, they could even include the security "tamper resistant" torx bit.
My point was security torx bits offer no security because the appropriate tool can be easily purchased at common places like Home Depot and your local hardware store. I make no other statement express or implied.
If by "going through the trouble to source the security 'tamper resistant' torx bit" you mean get in the car and head down to your local hardware store to pick one up then perhaps you've got a point. I don't consider that any more of a problem than heading to the hardware store to pick up a screw driver because one doesn't have the right size. Seriously...a security torx bit offers no more security / hassle than any other type of screw. Stop pretending it offers something over other types of screws...it doesn't.