no new MBA - will you wait?

[AlanShutko]

I have a Rev A MBA, and I often find myself in 1-2GB of swap. If a MBA is released with more RAM, I'm ordering it.

My main uses are DEVONthink, with some limited photo sorting in Aperture. (Editing is usually on a desktop.)

 

[pharmx]

...

On another topic, I suggest that it would be the rare 13 inch Mac buyer, indeed, whose computing needs were so demanding, an i5 or i7 CPU would provide dramatically faster throughput than they could get with the C2D. For most everyday uses, improved graphics, additional RAM, and an SSD would provide far more improvement than a faster CPU.

Alright, so which one would you choose:

Option A
- Current 13" MBP but without without optical drive and smaller battery
- Extra space used to bring the cpu/gpu combo on par with the 15/17 inch models
- Weight/size remain approximately the same

Option B
- Current MBA with improved CPU/GPU (utilizing the i-Series + ATI/custom nvidida solution we've talked about in this/other threads)
- 4GB soldered RAM, 256GB SSD

Option C
- Some sort of MBA/iPad hybrid. Either an iPad with a clamshell design or an MBA with touchscreen and detachable keyboard.
- It could run MacOSX when "assembled" or attached to the special keyboard dock, or iOS when separate.

 

[bluescity]

Suppose there is no Air, then what?

Perhaps a better thread question than the current one is - suppose Apple announces the end of the MBA. Then what do you do?

On that note - my MBP just arrived. My first impression out of the box is, ironically, "wow, it's light."

This recalls the relativity of weight point. As I'm switching from a 2006 MacBook, which I think already weighed over 5, the 13 MBP feels - to me - already much lighter. So I've got the advantages of feeling like I have a lighter machine, the power, and the immediacy (i.e. no more waiting )

 

[gwsat]

Alright, so which one would you choose:

Option A
- Current 13" MBP but without without optical drive and smaller battery
- Extra space used to bring the cpu/gpu combo on par with the 15/17 inch models
- Weight/size remain approximately the same

Option B
- Current MBA with improved CPU/GPU (utilizing the i-Series + ATI/custom nvidida solution we've talked about in this/other threads)
- 4GB soldered RAM, 256GB SSD

Option C
- Some sort of MBA/iPad hybrid. Either an iPad with a clamshell design or an MBA with touchscreen and detachable keyboard.
- It could run MacOSX when "assembled" or attached to the special keyboard dock, or iOS when separate.

Option A doesn't appeal to me. I think that the 13 inch MBP's long battery life is one of its most appealing features.

Option B, is intriguing. An MBA with 4Gb of RAM and somewhat better CPU and graphics makes sense to me. I might buy one of those.

I can't quite get my head around Option C. Some sort of hybrid between the iPad and MBA might work but I would have to see it before deciding whether it might work for me.

Perhaps a better thread question than the current one is - suppose Apple announces the end of the MBA. Then what do you do?

On that note - my MBP just arrived. My first impression out of the box is, ironically, "wow, it's light."

This recalls the relativity of weight point. As I'm switching from a 2006 MacBook, which I think already weighed over 5, the 13 MBP feels - to me - already much lighter. So I've got the advantages of feeling like I have a lighter machine, the power, and the immediacy (i.e. no more waiting )

If Apple did EOL the MBA I would probably buy a 13 inch MBP instead. It is significantly heavier than the MBA but, as you noted, is quite small and light by most standards. Better yet, it is far more powerful and feature rich than the MBA. As I noted in an earlier post, I am coming around to the notion that Apple just might EOL the MBA.

 

[Scottsdale]

All things in perspective though...if we're talking about the Air, most people would not be using it for Maya or extended Photoshop sessions. So with respect to the MBA, upgrades to other components would have a more noticeable impact on day to day use than a CPU bump. Improved SSD and increased RAM would have a much greater effect on performance than moving from C2D to i-Series, especially given the current GPU conundrum.

That being said though, the 13 inch "Pro" model sticking with a C2D is a tough sell. Anything with a "Pro" designation should have the latest tech, even if it comes with a cost to battery life. The whole point of being a professional product line is having bleeding edge tech. With mobile products this becomes tricky, since a balance must be reached to satisfy opposing ends of that pendulum. We'll never know all the details, negotiations, and complications that went on behind the scenes, resulting in the current 13" MBP...but I'm pretty sure Apple would never have refreshed it with the C2D unless it was forced to. Steve Jobs, being the lemonade out of lemons type of guy that he is, was able to market the decision as a good thing due to the improved battery performance.

In my opinion, the MBA and the 13" MBP (and to a lesser extent, the high end MB) need to be re-evaluated with regards to the demographic that are making the purchase, and the role these laptops play in Apple's lineup. I think the success of the 13" MBP has to due with the fact that it hits the sweetspot of price/functionality, causing purchases from people who otherwise would have bought an MB (students), MBA (business), or MBP (professional).

EXACTLY! The MBA is NOT marketed for someone doing advanced graphics design and 3D modeling programs. The MBA is PERFECTION for its target market. Those are biz pros, doctors, professors, grad students, and the tech enthusiast... some for primary computers others for primary NOTEBOOKS. Many would have a Mac Pro for heavy lifting and just want a REAL computer for remote stuff but don't need it for heavy remote stuff. I have a client with an engineer who switched to MBA for a lot of stuff, but his other computer is a Mac Pro. I know a lot of professors, consultants, and executives who use MBAs as their sole and primary computer. So it's targeted for those two roles, at luxury pricing. It's not meant to be a MacBook Pro, it's meant as a MacBook-type experience in a case light as Air.

I don't get it when pros say the MBP is right and the MBA is a joke, or worthless or whatever. If they think that, with the "more power" attitude, the MBA was never marketed for them anyways... The MBA is a hell of an ultraportable, but it is an ultraportable not a full powered MBP. For someone "playing" with Adobe CS products like Photoshop it's fine, but it's not for those who make a living off those apps. If you read someone say, the MBP is more powerful and half the price, then they were NOT the target market. The target market doesn't mind the price, and they know they don't need a MacBook PRO. There is a difference, and I believe Apple will make it clear whenever it does update the MBA. We are likely to eventually see Intel's GMA in the MBA whether we like it or not, and it's because we're not Pros and we don't need anything more than HD video playback. People shouldn't buy an MBA for games nor for advanced "Pro" workloads. Apple is steadily improving OS X which will make the GMA function much better for HD video playback. The thing is the Intel GMA is perfect for the average user in Windows 7. However, it lacks in OS X because the graphics software needs to be better. It's just like using the MBA now with Windows 7, as it makes it more like a more advanced computer with the 9400m. Windows is far superior in graphics as there are better drivers taking advantage of the right APIs, utilizing OpenGL and h.264 to make an incredible entertainment type experience. Even then, it's not marketed as such, as it's not marketed with Windows 7. But it is capable, that's for sure. Anyone can install Windows 7 and see the amazing results versus OS X on the same hardware.

 

[Spacekatgal]

All things in perspective though...if we're talking about the Air, most people would not be using it for Maya or extended Photoshop sessions. So with respect to the MBA, upgrades to other components would have a more noticeable impact on day to day use than a CPU bump. Improved SSD and increased RAM would have a much greater effect on performance than moving from C2D to i-Series, especially given the current GPU conundrum.

That being said though, the 13 inch "Pro" model sticking with a C2D is a tough sell. Anything with a "Pro" designation should have the latest tech, even if it comes with a cost to battery life. The whole point of being a professional product line is having bleeding edge tech. With mobile products this becomes tricky, since a balance must be reached to satisfy opposing ends of that pendulum. We'll never know all the details, negotiations, and complications that went on behind the scenes, resulting in the current 13" MBP...but I'm pretty sure Apple would never have refreshed it with the C2D unless it was forced to. Steve Jobs, being the lemonade out of lemons type of guy that he is, was able to market the decision as a good thing due to the improved battery performance.

In my opinion, the MBA and the 13" MBP (and to a lesser extent, the high end MB) need to be re-evaluated with regards to the demographic that are making the purchase, and the role these laptops play in Apple's lineup. I think the success of the 13" MBP has to due with the fact that it hits the sweetspot of price/functionality, causing purchases from people who otherwise would have bought an MB (students), MBA (business), or MBP (professional).

I want to be clear here, because I think there is some confusion. I'm talking about the i5/i7 chip with the 13 inch MBP. That is all, not the MBA, Scotsdale. I am in agreement with you that there are many things I'm willing to compromise for the ultraportable experience.

It's why I'm quite happy to make those compromises in the iPad.

But yes, PharmX, I am in total agreement. If this is a "pro" level computer, than the newest processor must be at least a BTO option. But, I agree with you that there are so many other things that would improve the user experience - and they have nothing to do with the CPU.

The moment I decided to sell my MBA rev C was a week ago. I'd been using my iPad for a month. I opened the clamshell and waited a while for the system to catch up and let me use it. After that I launched mail, watched the spinning beachball for several seconds, and waited for it to labor to check my mail. After that I launched Safari, and waited for the system to catch up. It was drastically apparent to me that the MBA was an inferior experience to the iPad in the areas I cared about - speed, portability, and battery life.

I would totally be willing to do C2D in a new MBA, if it addressed those three areas. I am not willing to sacrifice that in a member of the Macbook Pro line. If it's a pro laptop, it needs to be able to run pro applications. I am, of course, willing to pay more than $1,200 to get that.

 

[pharmx]

EXACTLY! The MBA is NOT marketed for someone doing advanced graphics design and 3D modeling programs. The MBA is PERFECTION for its target market. Those are biz pros, doctors, professors, grad students, and the tech enthusiast... some for primary computers others for primary NOTEBOOKS. Many would have a Mac Pro for heavy lifting and just want a REAL computer for remote stuff but don't need it for heavy remote stuff. I have a client with an engineer who switched to MBA for a lot of stuff, but his other computer is a Mac Pro. I know a lot of professors, consultants, and executives who use MBAs as their sole and primary computer. So it's targeted for those two roles, at luxury pricing. It's not meant to be a MacBook Pro, it's meant as a MacBook-type experience in a case light as Air.

I don't get it when pros say the MBP is right and the MBA is a joke, or worthless or whatever. If they think that, with the "more power" attitude, the MBA was never marketed for them anyways... The MBA is a hell of an ultraportable, but it is an ultraportable not a full powered MBP. For someone "playing" with Adobe CS products like Photoshop it's fine, but it's not for those who make a living off those apps. If you read someone say, the MBP is more powerful and half the price, then they were NOT the target market. The target market doesn't mind the price, and they know they don't need a MacBook PRO. There is a difference, and I believe Apple will make it clear whenever it does update the MBA. We are likely to eventually see Intel's GMA in the MBA whether we like it or not, and it's because we're not Pros and we don't need anything more than HD video playback. People shouldn't buy an MBA for games nor for advanced "Pro" workloads. Apple is steadily improving OS X which will make the GMA function much better for HD video playback. The thing is the Intel GMA is perfect for the average user in Windows 7. However, it lacks in OS X because the graphics software needs to be better. It's just like using the MBA now with Windows 7, as it makes it more like a more advanced computer with the 9400m. Windows is far superior in graphics as there are better drivers taking advantage of the right APIs, utilizing OpenGL and h.264 to make an incredible entertainment type experience. Even then, it's not marketed as such, as it's not marketed with Windows 7. But it is capable, that's for sure. Anyone can install Windows 7 and see the amazing results versus OS X on the same hardware.

I think we will start seeing a shift as Apple slowly weans itself off of Intel, nVidia, and other "middlemen". As iOS devices proliferate and generate revenue, more models will be introduced that help mature iOS, advance its capabilities, and take it to the next level. This will coincide with a greater percentage of Apple's product line running on their own A(x) series SoC.

I think right now, while iOS is still in its infancy, Apple is playing more of an observational role, waiting to see how far developers can push the envelope with what is currently available. The iPhone is already doing much more than what people originally thought it could do, and it continues to be used in ways limited only by the imagination of the developers designing for it. The iPad will push those "limits" even further. And all of this in spite of the many restrictions and obstacles.

Once Apple is ready, I think we will see a flurry of events that will shed light on some of the "strange" decisions that Steve Jobs & Co. has made with respect to acquisitions, how they've aligned their products within the market, and direction/focus of mobility. With the amount of capital they have at their disposal, construction of a data center, and concentration on iOS...I think we are in for some really interesting things in the near future.

 

[Spacekatgal]

Also, I just wanted to say I've owned an Octocore MP. I've maxed it out with SSDs in a RAID, and top of the line GPUs. And I've also come to the conclusion that it's totally underpowered for the money. I sold it and got the i7 27 inch iMac - which is a much better deal for the money.

For GAs like myself, a portable workstation is a highly desirable thing. We tend to work weird hours, and like to sneak off to coffee shops and restaurants to stay energetic creatively.

Bri

 

[pharmx]

I want to be clear here, because I think there is some confusion. I'm talking about the i5/i7 chip with the 13 inch MBP. That is all, not the MBA, Scotsdale. I am in agreement with you that there are many things I'm willing to compromise for the ultraportable experience.

It's why I'm quite happy to make those compromises in the iPad.

But yes, PharmX, I am in total agreement. If this is a "pro" level computer, than the newest processor must be at least a BTO option. But, I agree with you that there are so many other things that would improve the user experience - and they have nothing to do with the CPU.

The moment I decided to sell my MBA rev C was a week ago. I'd been using my iPad for a month. I opened the clamshell and waited a while for the system to catch up and let me use it. After that I launched mail, watched the spinning beachball for several seconds, and waited for it to labor to check my mail. After that I launched Safari, and waited for the system to catch up. It was drastically apparent to me that the MBA was an inferior experience to the iPad in the areas I cared about - speed, portability, and battery life.

I would totally be willing to do C2D in a new MBA, if it addressed those three areas. I am not willing to sacrifice that in a member of the Macbook Pro line. If it's a pro laptop, it needs to be able to run pro applications. I am, of course, willing to pay more than $1,200 to get that.

I'm starting to get the impression that my MBA is the exception and not the norm. As an owner of both an iPad and an MBA, I can agree that the "instant-on" feeling of the iPad is very nice and has a snappy feel to it. There are of course several reasons for this, but limited functionality and scope play a big part. However, my Air is no slouch for the tasks you just mentioned either. Opening the clamshell and waiting for the OS is practically instant. Even if the Air is completely shut down, booting up takes very little time, and is significantly faster than any desktop or laptop I've owned or even seen. I attribute most of this speed to the SSD. I definitely don't see a beachball when checking mail or running Safari, FireFox, or any of the other browsers I have installed. However, I'm very minimalistic and methodical with how I use my MBA. I almost never have multiple applications running simultaneously, and always exit an application when I'm done using it instead of minimizing it or having it open in the background.

Ironically the slowest application on my MBA (and the only one that consistently beachballs for a few seconds) is iTunes, and that is probably due to the ginormous library of apps I have downloaded. Of course, I also don't use my MBA for anything that is CPU/GPU intensive. I think if I was able to increase the RAM and SSD size of my current MBA, and get Apple to release optimized drivers...I would not even be worried about when/if there was going to be an MBA refresh, or if it was going to be EOL'd.

 

[JackLeBoul]

Ram

That would depend on your needs. For the work that I do (which, arguably is only run office applications with music/video and web), it works quite well with no problems.

Not often.
I run all iLife and iWork suites as well as Aperture without any problems.
More ram is always useful, especially if you are heavy Photoshop and alike.
Mostly because these programs tend to be bloated more than anything else.

If you can, wait for next version, which will have 4 GB ram, but if fancy a used on ebay then I would think that for most uses it will suffice. However, buy then the current version. I have owned all three rev. of MBA and found the previous specs a bit underpowered.

 

[JackLeBoul]

Ram

How restricting do you find the 2GB RAM on the Air? That's my one worry with buying one of the current models. In 3 years I can happily imagine the C2D 2.16ghz being fine. I can certainly imagine not having a problem with the 128GB SSD.

But 2GB?

Not often.
I run all iLife and iWork suites as well as Aperture without any problems.
More ram is always useful, especially if you are heavy Photoshop and alike.
Mostly because these programs tend to be bloated more than anything else.

If you can, wait for next version, which will have 4 GB ram, but if fancy a used on ebay then I would think that for most uses it will suffice. However, buy then the current version. I have owned all three rev. of MBA and found the previous specs a bit underpowered.

 

[Mhkobe]

EXACTLY! The MBA is NOT marketed for someone doing advanced graphics design and 3D modeling programs.

My MBA works fine for C4D, and therefore I agree with you (I think this is your opinion, though I am not sure) and many others that a core ix cpu is unnecessary.

With this new (for me, maybe somebody else has thought this before me) thought, I think all that I can possibly want from apple now is a larger SSD, and 4Gb RAM.

 

[Scottsdale]

I want to be clear here, because I think there is some confusion. I'm talking about the i5/i7 chip with the 13 inch MBP. That is all, not the MBA, Scotsdale. I am in agreement with you that there are many things I'm willing to compromise for the ultraportable experience.

It's why I'm quite happy to make those compromises in the iPad.

But yes, PharmX, I am in total agreement. If this is a "pro" level computer, than the newest processor must be at least a BTO option. But, I agree with you that there are so many other things that would improve the user experience - and they have nothing to do with the CPU.

The moment I decided to sell my MBA rev C was a week ago. I'd been using my iPad for a month. I opened the clamshell and waited a while for the system to catch up and let me use it. After that I launched mail, watched the spinning beachball for several seconds, and waited for it to labor to check my mail. After that I launched Safari, and waited for the system to catch up. It was drastically apparent to me that the MBA was an inferior experience to the iPad in the areas I cared about - speed, portability, and battery life.

I would totally be willing to do C2D in a new MBA, if it addressed those three areas. I am not willing to sacrifice that in a member of the Macbook Pro line. If it's a pro laptop, it needs to be able to run pro applications. I am, of course, willing to pay more than $1,200 to get that.

In your case too. MOST users are better off with a better system for MOST tasks than a faster CPU. Jobs and co made absolutely the correct decision IF it honestly couldn't fit a discrete GPU in the 13" MBP with a Core i-series CPU. That Intel GMA might to okay in Windows, but with the trash drivers and graphics system in OS X, it's pathetic at best. If Apple could fit the discrete GPU in the 13" MBP and they were trying to save an extra $15, then it's pathetic that they didn't bite the bullet and put an Arrandale CPU and discrete GPU in there. Part of the problem is they want people to buy the "upsell" 15" MBPs for MORE MONEY. If the 13" MBP has the same graphics, people will stop buying 15" MBPs, because they all plug them into 24" LED ACDs and etc displays at home. So there are many factors playing here.

I hope for the sake of the MBA, that Apple has some discrete GPU up its sleeve... but I doubt it. I think it will ultimately either move to AMD/ATI or drop its strategy and go with Intel's worthless GMA. There just aren't many options once Intel had to play dirty.

In the end, it's going to be an SoC design as Pharmx stated. None of us will be fighting over "GHz" as it will come down to A7 vs. A8 and we won't know what either is... well we will but they will not market it that way. Thanks to iFixIt.com, I think they will figure out what's what. But Apple has been sneaky good in providing an amazing SoC A4 design that people thought had to be a Cortex A9 when it really was just an A8. Apple can be really good when it puts some effort into it. In the future, I pray Intel is out of the picture. However, I am a luxury prosumer buyer not a pro. Pros may dislike where Apple goes, as they're going to compare Apple's SoC vs. PCs with Intel 7 GHz fazzle-madazzles (Madeup word signifying what's down the road). The pro users will definitely fall out of love with a "consumer electronics" Apple, Inc.

 

[askduds]

Perhaps a better thread question than the current one is - suppose Apple announces the end of the MBA. Then what do you do?

Shrug and buy that MBP I suspect.

 

[tokyotribe]

If Scottsdale says to wait 6 weeks, I'll wait 6 weeks.

I agree that the white MB is a great value though, especially now that the specs are almost identical to the entry-level MBP. Even after bumping up the RAM to 4GB, its still cheaper. I had an old iBook that lasted 9 years, so I don't doubt the durability of plastic.

Mac Mini just got updated today, so maybe there's hope for the MBA!

 

[askduds]

My 30th birthday is at the end of July so any macbook I buy is basically a present to me anyway. I can certainly give them that long to update and this silent macmini update is good news in that respect.

 

[Wyvers]

If the Air follows suit are we going to see a possible update 5 weeks from now with 2.4GHz and 2.66GHz flavors? This is based off the fact that the MBP was updated then roughly one month later it was the MB and now the Mac Mini. I'm still crossing my fingers that it'll be updated tomorrow

 

[soph]

If the Air follows suit are we going to see a possible update 5 weeks from now with 2.4GHz and 2.66GHz flavors? This is based off the fact that the MBP was updated then roughly one month later it was the MB and now the Mac Mini. I'm still crossing my fingers that it'll be updated tomorrow

I've no hopes for tomorrow.

It's been 5 weeks between the Macbook Pro and the Macbook update, and now it's been 4 weeks between Macbook and Mac Mini.
3-4 weeks until either MBA or iMac 21 to the same specs, anyone?

 

[tim100]

new mini. no air update today. for the mini to get updated before the mba, I bet alot of people on here will be very upset. just give up get a macbook pro. air is dead.

 

[halledise]

new mini. no air update today. for the mini to get updated before the mba, I bet alot of people on here will be very upset. just give up get a macbook pro. air is dead.

no it's not - just be patient.
the Mini peeps have waited a looooooooooooooooong time.

the big brothers with Mac Pro's aren't freaking out, thus neither do us Air fans.

have faith, Steve will deliver

 

[tim100]

no it's not - just be patient.
the Mini peeps have waited a looooooooooooooooong time.

the big brothers with Mac Pro's aren't freaking out, thus neither do us Air fans.

have faith, Steve will deliver

yea just like the iphone 4 pre orders. been trying to pre order for 2 hours.

 

[Spacekatgal]

I love the new design.

I have to say, Apple snuck up on us with this one! Maybe we'll get a new Air after all!

 

[askduds]

It's hard to remember now, but what was OSX like when it first launched? It was a promising mess, right? iOS is still in its infancy. I have a strong belief that in time it will overcome the limitations that have been so commonly discussed.

It won't while Apple's control over what you can do is so great but that's not the issue, the issue is that it's NOT "in its infancy", it's at the 4th major release. It's "Tiger".

 

[Scottsdale]

If Scottsdale says to wait 6 weeks, I'll wait 6 weeks.

I agree that the white MB is a great value though, especially now that the specs are almost identical to the entry-level MBP. Even after bumping up the RAM to 4GB, its still cheaper. I had an old iBook that lasted 9 years, so I don't doubt the durability of plastic.

Mac Mini just got updated today, so maybe there's hope for the MBA!

I think there's actually no more hope for the MBA this update cycle. I would have expected the MBA update when the Mac mini was updated. The only positive thought I have is a Mac media event. Apple could still introduce new Mac Pros and MacBook Airs, along with LED ACDs, iMac, AppleTV, the 22" iMac touchscreen and etc.

I would say it's a long shot now though. Much more realistic is an October or January update. Probably either Intel Arrandale with GMA or AMD/ATI solution.

I believe Apple must have decided there isn't a C2D to "update" to so they just left the MBA untouched. There's the other possibilities that something happens sooner with Arrandale or AMD/ATI. But it seems far less probable now.

I am going to buy a new Mac mini Server to play around with for a few months. I will have it do my Windows work, and I will remove Windows from my MBA. With OS X running, and better and better graphics drivers coming out for my MBA, it will still be the most amazing ultraportable available. It just will not match my wants. It will match my needs with 2 GB RAM, but it will not match my wants of being able to run Windows 7 in a VM.

I would tell anyone to stop waiting for the MBA update if they NEED something now. I don't believe, as many others do, that the MBA will be EOL'd. I just believe Apple decided not to update it this cycle because there was no "update" in the SL9x00 C2D CPU series available.

October or January seem most realistic. Maybe October for AMD/ATI. Probably January if only Intel Arrandale with GMA.

Apple has really left us MBA fans out of the loop for way too long. It's terribly disappointing.

 

[gwsat]

I like the idea of using a Mac mini Server as a Windows machine, too. In that connection, does anyone have any experience with using Apple Remote Desktop on an internal wireless network and remotely? If it's possible do do that and reasonably fast, the combination of the Mac Mini Server running Windows and ARD to control it from another computer seems like a natural.