Not looking forward to this

[fisherking]

Hey, so, I'm the guy who actually took your advice, the last time macOS had a visual change. Yosemite and newer look ugly, so I'm running Mavericks instead! (My case is a little different because I did upgrade at first, but downgraded back after many years because I couldn't take it anymore.)

And the good news is, you're right! I am running Mavericks, and I'm making it work, and on the whole I'm very happy with my computer right now. But, like, it's really hard sometimes!

Every time a coworker wants to do a Slack video call, I need to fire up VMWare Fusion and take the call inside my VM, because Slack video calls absolutely refuse to work in Mavericks. I have spent many hours tracking down Mavericks-compatible versions of apps that aren't sold anymore, or just aren't available for download. I spent days fixing the weather dashboard widget, largely because I legitimately prefer the dashboard, but also because under Mavericks, there's no Today View widget I can use instead.

If you too want to run a very old version of OS X, hit me up and I'll give you some tips. But I don't think most people are as crazy as I am, and they don't really have a choice about whether to upgrade. They can hold out for a few years, sure, but the clock is ticking.

I assume many of the people who spend $1,000+ on Macs do so at least in part because they like the visual design. Having Apple come in and change the product out from under you isn't a great feeling. Users certainly have a right to complain, at minimum.

i care about what's happening under-the-hood more than what icons look like, and love staying on top of 'new'; so, just waiting for the public beta. i genuinely don't understand the point of holding back so far... and having to find workarounds for everything. but whatever makes you (or anyone) happy 👍

 

[honestone33]

I also like to keep up with things, whether it's a new OS, an upgrade to an app I am using, etc. Regarding holding back, I have always "held back" moving/upgrading to the newer mac OS until all my third party applications are compatible with the new OS. Also, it's typically not a wise move to install the initial version of the new OS, and subsequently for the next 2 versions. The initial version always contains bugs, and it typically takes Apple at least 2 versions more to iron them out.

Additionally, as I mentioned previously, there is typically nothing "earth shattering" in the new OS that would compel me to upgrade right away. And of course the current version of the OS works fine anyway.

 

[fisherking]

I also like to keep up with things, whether it's a new OS, an upgrade to an app I am using, etc. Regarding holding back, I have always "held back" moving/upgrading to the newer mac OS until all my third party applications are compatible with the new OS. Also, it's typically not a wise move to install the initial version of the new OS, and subsequently for the next 2 versions. The initial version always contains bugs, and it typically takes Apple at least 2 versions more to iron them out.

Additionally, as I mentioned previously, there is typically nothing "earth shattering" in the new OS that would compel me to upgrade right away. And of course the current version of the OS works fine anyway.

so, which is it? you like to keep up with things, or you hold back? you can't be in both places at the same time...

anyway, there are always bugs, always issues. no OS ever reaches a finite stage, where all is well, for everyone. hence the neverending betas. just how it is. and it's never, in a sense, wise to move to a new OS; but it's a choice, and some of us are fearless (or reckless) enough to dive in.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

i care about what's happening under-the-hood more than what icons look like, and love staying on top of 'new'; so, just waiting for the public beta. i genuinely don't understand the point of holding back so far... and having to find workarounds for everything. but whatever makes you (or anyone) happy 👍

I like it when stuff works. New operating systems -- especially bleeding edge betas -- have way more bugs than mature operating systems. And not just macOS. That's why there are beta testers. They are asked to help stamp out the bugs.

I choose to do other things with my time rather than file bug reports, etc. I'm glad there are people like you who are enthusiastic about beta testing operating systems. I'm also glad I'm not one of those people.

So I'm running Mojave 10.14.6 on a Mac mini 2018. All my Mac gets are macOS security updates and occasional updates to individual applications. Same with my iDevices, I'm on iOS 12.4.1. Whatever bugs are in those operating systems will likely remain there forever.

I even have an external Catalina boot drive. I occasionally run it but then I return to Mojave with an hour or two. At some point I may upgrade my Mac mini to the final release of Catalina but to date I have found no compelling reason to upgrade to Catalina.

Big Sur looks more promising but I may wait until early 2021 to upgrade my Mac to it. For sure I will install it on my external drive for a careful review before I actually update my system drive. Sadly, one can't do this easily with iOS and after Apple stops signing a particular iOS version, there is no going back.

 

[eflx]

I'll upgrade to 11.x after a couple patches in after seeing Apple's track record for QA lately. Catalina on 10.15.5 for me is solid.

The new UI comes with some good for sure, mixed with the bad but if the OS runs smoother and has more features I won't hold back for UI alone. It'll probably be similar to iOS 7 when released ... pretty jarring, but after a couple revisions it started to come together nicely. Have a feeling it'll be the same with Big Sur - in another year or two down the line, it'll really start to come together and looking back Catlina will look and feel old I'm sure.

 

[Marzel]

There are many things to like but similar to all of Apple's past major visual changes there are loads of things that need improvement. It does feel similar to iOS7 where at first glance looks striking and impressive but then you start realising that many things are just "off". I'm sure Apple is going to spend the next few years optimising the visuals.

 

[honestone33]

so, which is it? you like to keep up with things, or you hold back? you can't be in both places at the same time...

anyway, there are always bugs, always issues. no OS ever reaches a finite stage, where all is well, for everyone. hence the neverending betas. just how it is. and it's never, in a sense, wise to move to a new OS; but it's a choice, and some of us are fearless (or reckless) enough to dive in.

Man, I thought I clearly stated my thoughts. But to repeat, I also like to keep up with things, but obviously at the appropriate time. For each new mac OS, as I have stated many times, I do not move/upgrade to the new OS until ALL of my third party applications are compatible with the new OS. Typically, Tech Tool Pro is the last of the third party apps I use that has an update available. And based on the last few OS releases, it is typically "around" the time the .3 version of the OS is released, and by that time, Apple has corrected most of the initial bugs (which are always present). Also, like I said, there is usually nothing earth shattering in the new OS that I must have right away. And of course, the current (and typically last, ie, .6) version of the OS (ie, Catalina) is stable, usable, and rock solid.

So, is that clear enough? Again, to repeat, I do move/upgrade to the new OS, but at the appropriate time, and thus like to keep up. But keeping up does not apply to beta releases. Also, for keeping up, one must consider all the circumstances. I have clearly stated what those are, at least for me.

One thing that is good, though, is that for folks who are fearless (or reckless, or brave) and try out the betas and the first couple of releases, it allows me (and others) the opportunity to "sit on the sidelines" and observe what is going on. That is beneficial.
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I'll upgrade to 11.x after a couple patches in after seeing Apple's track record for QA lately. Catalina on 10.15.5 for me is solid.

Yes. my thoughts exactly. And with OS 10.15.6 soon to be released, that will solidify things even more.

The new UI comes with some good for sure, mixed with the bad but if the OS runs smoother and has more features I won't hold back for UI alone. It'll probably be similar to iOS 7 when released ... pretty jarring, but after a couple revisions it started to come together nicely. Have a feeling it'll be the same with Big Sur - in another year or two down the line, it'll really start to come together and looking back Catlina will look and feel old I'm sure.

Yup, by that time, the last version of Big Sur will either be released, or soon to be. Then we'll be discussing the next version of the mac OS, with (most likely) the same points, issues, etc. My approach will remain the same.

 

[fisherking]

Man, I thought I clearly stated my thoughts. But to repeat, I also like to keep up with things, but obviously at the appropriate time. For each new mac OS, as I have stated many times, I do not move/upgrade to the new OS until ALL of my third party applications are compatible with the new OS. Typically, Tech Tool Pro is the last of the third party apps I use that has an update available. And based on the last few OS releases, it is typically "around" the time the .3 version of the OS is released, and by that time, Apple has corrected most of the initial bugs (which are always present). Also, like I said, there is usually nothing earth shattering in the new OS that I must have right away. And of course, the current (and typically last, ie, .6) version of the OS (ie, Catalina) is stable, usable, and rock solid.

So, is that clear enough? Again, to repeat, I do move/upgrade to the new OS, but at the appropriate time, and thus like to keep up. But keeping up does not apply to beta releases. Also, for keeping up, one must consider all the circumstances. I have clearly stated what those are, at least for me.

One thing that is good, though, is that for folks who are fearless (or reckless, or brave) and try out the betas and the first couple of releases, it allows me (and others) the opportunity to "sit on the sidelines" and observe what is going on. That is beneficial.
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no version of any OS is completely stable for everyone, that's how software works... it's always a work-in-progress. hence, the continued updates, until suddenly it's 'new OS time'. so you get to decide when you want to join in, and then, like everyone else, deal with the consequences.

keeping up with things, but at a later time, is not exactly keeping up with things; but whatever works for you...

 

[honestone33]

no version of any OS is completely stable for everyone, that's how software works... it's always a work-in-progress. hence, the continued updates, until suddenly it's 'new OS time'. so you get to decide when you want to join in, and then, like everyone else, deal with the consequences.

keeping up with things, but at a later time, is not exactly keeping up with things; but whatever works for you...

I of course understand that. But as I mentioned, keeping up does not necessarily apply to beta releases. Just too many risks involved. Also, significant changes will definitely happen. I actually have an external SSD that I have used for testing a newer mac OS (did it with Mojave and Catalina), but again, such testing was not with beta versions.

Typically, the last release of a mac OS is as stable as it is going to get. OS 10.15.6 was released earlier today, and I am willing to bet that will be the last release (barring security updates, which are different) for Catalina. Once I move to it, I'll be good to go, until it is the right and appropriate time to move to Big Sur. And you can "play with the words" all you want, but for me, keeping up is when all my third party applications are compatible. And again, given my experience, that typically occurs when the .3 release of that OS (not beta) is released.

And it seems that there are some other folks who follow a similar path.

 

[fisherking]

I of course understand that. But as I mentioned, keeping up does not necessarily apply to beta releases. Just too many risks involved. Also, significant changes will definitely happen. I actually have an external SSD that I have used for testing a newer mac OS (did it with Mojave and Catalina), but again, such testing was not with beta versions.

Typically, the last release of a mac OS is as stable as it is going to get. OS 10.15.6 was released earlier today, and I am willing to bet that will be the last release (barring security updates, which are different) for Catalina. Once I move to it, I'll be good to go, until it is the right and appropriate time to move to Big Sur. And you can "play with the words" all you want, but for me, keeping up is when all my third party applications are compatible. And again, given my experience, that typically occurs when the .3 release of that OS (not beta) is released.

And it seems that there are some other folks who follow a similar path.

yes, there are others who move forward as you do; and there are others that jump on the betas. and there are others... you get the idea. there are a lot of paths, and people choose to do what they... choose to do.

but this: "the right and appropriate time" is just a choice you've made, on the supposition that things will now work without issue for you. so, not sure what you mean by 'playing with words'... which is what you seem to be doing.

again, whatever works.

EDIT: look, i will just block your posts again, so we don't go back & forth, and waste people's time on this thread (or any other thread). and whatever process works for you is surely the right one.. for you.

 

[honestone33]

You are the one who said "keeping up with things, but at a later time, is not exactly keeping up with things". That is plain narrow minded.

And yes, "the right and appropriate time" is my approach. But as I have stated, that actually has some "caveats" that I impose, ie, requiring all my third party apps to be compatible, Apple squashing most of the bugs from the prior releases. etc. I NEVER said it applied to anyone else.

And I have not had any issues with my apps or the OS after installing the .3 version of the OS. It works fine, as do all my apps. I suspect there are still bugs, but they do not affect me. That's the key.

Oh, and going forward, it looks like you can't take "the heat", since you want to block my posts. That's all well and good. I look forward to the days where I do not need to read any narrow minded posts by you as they affect me.