nVidia web driver users, hold off on the High Sierra Supplemental Update

[SolidCake]

Just updated my flashed cMP 4,1 and I can't use my GTX 1080 Ti anymore. Usually, I can remote login just after an update to fix driver issues but I can't-do that either anymore. The only solution that has worked, so far, is switching back to the stock GTX 120.

The firmware update and 'upgrade' to High Sierra went fine after switching out the GTX 1080 Ti for the GTX 120. Only now I'm experiencing a totally different issue...

So I guess we'll have to wait on a webdriver update from nVidia.

 

[h9826790]

Just updated my flashed cMP 4,1 and I can't use my GTX 1080 Ti anymore. Usually, I can remote login just after an update to fix driver issues but I can't-do that either anymore. The only solution that has worked, so far, is switching back to the stock GTX 120.

The firmware update and 'upgrade' to High Sierra went fine after switching out the GTX 1080 Ti for the GTX 120. Only now I'm experiencing a totally different issue...

So I guess we'll have to wait on a webdriver update from nVidia.

ANY OS update including supplemental/ security update, a new web driver should be required. AFAIK, it’s been like this for quite a few years already.

 

[Synchro3]

I did a PRAM reset, and now I cannot start my HFS-formatted High Sierra partition (without recovery partition because I cloned it with CCC). I'm in a boot loop now, even with an EFI card and Nvidia web drivers installed...

High Sierra seems more problematic than other OS before.

My main drive is still on 10.12.6, so no problem so far. I will delete High Sierra and reinstall it.

 

[h9826790]

I am with the R9 380 (one of the OOTB GPU), the supplemental update works really well for me. The strange Finder bug seems gone. My cMP encode videos in the last ~20 hours. No more Finder UI hang. Before the supplemental update. There is about 3 Finder hang per day if I stress the CPU to 100%. (It only happen when CPU under high stress).

Also, I highly suspect all system UI and Safari now use Metal 2 (may be GPU dependent). I don't know how to check it. However, I never see such a smooth UI when CPU under 100% stress.

Since the GPU driver still same as pre supplemental update. So, it's not the driver improvement, but something else in the system.

 

[rjtiedeman]

No problems with Mac Edition NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 running fine on OS X Default Drivers. I know it's slow but unless I look at a web site test I wouldn't know any better. It's not stopping me from working.

Waiting for CUDA also..

 

[SolidCake]

ANY OS update including supplemental/ security update, a new web driver should be required. AFAIK, it’s been like this for quite a few years already.

I completely agree with you and it's best practice to wait a couple of days before updating to be guaranteed updated drivers. But what has changed for me is that I can no longer remotely login to do driver edits (changing nVidia webdriver settings) to get the 1080 Ti up and running again. So I thought that I might as well issue a 'warning'.

 

[alvindarkness]

I did a PRAM reset, and now I cannot start my HFS-formatted High Sierra partition (without recovery partition because I cloned it with CCC). I'm in a boot loop now, even with an EFI card and Nvidia web drivers installed...

High Sierra seems more problematic than other OS before.

My main drive is still on 10.12.6, so no problem so far. I will delete High Sierra and reinstall it.

Theres a few ways to fix that boot loop you are experiencing. One of them (modifying the current webdriver to work with the high sierra supplemental update) is described in detail in this reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh...vidia_web_drivers_dont_install_macos/dnywcpd/

Another thread (that admittedly has many unrelated posts that are heckintosh centric), is filled with a bunch of useful posts regarding the nvidia webdriver + supplemental update boot loop issue https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/macos-high-sierra-10-13-supplemental-update.233897/

Basically it seems to be the nvidia web drivers sending high sierra into the boot loop. To others that have yet to update, it would be worth while to uninstall the nvidia web drivers before installing the update. Then install the latest drivers once nvidia release them.

To those that have updated and are experiencing issues, you may need a HS USB installer first, then you have options of - Disabling SIP and manually editing the current web drivers, or manually deleting the drivers, or passing a kernel argument (nv_disable=1) (not sure if this one works, but it has been mentioned).

 

[thevidness]

hi there, just wanted to mention, that your post title is a bit misleading. i just updated my 5,1 with a sapphire radeon rx 580 pulse card (the one found in apples external graphics dev kit) without a problem. and i would consider that card also non-efi, or am i wrong here?

best regards

 

[namethisfile]

I also update my Mac Pro to HS Supplemental Update with RX 460 in the machine without any issues. I pulled out the GTX 1070 and put it back in my windows PC where it will probably stay.

The Nvidia web driver (with RX 460 in there) spat out a pop up window saying it will run on Default OS X Driver after the update. I then uninstalled the web driver because I no longer needed it.

So, I'm back using RX 460. I didn't notice the GTX 1070 being any faster in my daily usage. The only thing that reminds me that the GTX 1070 is more powerful than the RX 460 is if I run a benchmark. I don't notice it being any smoother/faster when using FCP X or Photoshop CS6, or even browsing the web. And, I don't play games on my Mac since I have a windows PC for that.

PS--Yes! non-EFI cards if they're AMD cards will work with supplemental updates because I am guessing that it doesn't need web drivers like Nvidia cards do.

 

[ActionableMango]

I did a PRAM reset, and now I cannot start my HFS-formatted High Sierra partition (without recovery partition because I cloned it with CCC). I'm in a boot loop now, even with an EFI card and Nvidia web drivers installed...

Synchro, if I am understanding your post correctly I think what happened is that a PRAM reset eliminates the boot arg that tells the OS to use the Nvidia drivers. So even if the Nvidia drivers were installed and enabled, they are no longer enabled after the PRAM reset and so the Mac is trying to use the Apple drivers for a card that they won't work with. In that scenario a boot loop occurs.

Thankfully with an EFI card you have boot screens, so the good news is that you can boot into single user mode and reinstate the boot arg at that command line:

nvram boot-args="nvda_drv=1"​

 

[Synchro3]

Synchro, if I am understanding your post correctly I think what happened is that a PRAM reset eliminates the boot arg that tells the OS to use the Nvidia drivers. So even if the Nvidia drivers were installed and enabled, they are no longer enabled after the PRAM reset and so the Mac is trying to use the Apple drivers for a card that they won't work with. In that scenario a boot loop occurs.

Thankfully with an EFI card you have boot screens, so the good news is that you can boot into single user mode and reinstate the boot arg at that command line:

nvram boot-args="nvda_drv=1"​

Thank you for this info.

But the strange thing is after I did the PRAM reset with an EFI Maxwell card:

-> Booting 10.11.6 in an unaccelerated mode just fine, enabled the web drivers again, restarted
-> Booting 10.12.6 in an unaccelerated mode also fine, enabled the web drivers again, restarted
-> Booting 10.13 -> boot loop

However, I did the PRAM reset because cold booting 10.11.6 did not work properly after the High Sierra installation, it had to boot twice until the desktop appeared. This problem is now solved.

 

[ActionableMango]

Thank you for this info.

But the strange thing is after I did the PRAM reset with an EFI Maxwell card:

-> Booting 10.11.6 in an unaccelerated mode just fine, enabled the web drivers again, restarted
-> Booting 10.12.6 in an unaccelerated mode also fine, enabled the web drivers again, restarted
-> Booting 10.13 -> boot loop

However, I did the PRAM reset because cold booting 10.11.6 did not work properly after the High Sierra installation, it had to boot twice until the desktop appeared. This problem is now solved.

I don't know what's going on any more. It's all voodoo.

 

[SolidCake]

hi there, just wanted to mention, that your post title is a bit misleading. i just updated my 5,1 with a sapphire radeon rx 580 pulse card (the one found in apples external graphics dev kit) without a problem. and i would consider that card also non-efi, or am i wrong here?

best regards

Hey thanks, I wanted to keep the title as short as possible. Will do my best to update if it's really misleading and confusing. EDIT: Edited the title to be more accurate.

Yes, some AMD (RX) cards that are non-EFI have found native support in High Sierra, such as the RX 580 you get with the external GPU Dev-kit, but that's just a few. The majority of the non-EFI cards still need 3'rd party drivers or mods.

 

[MisterAndrew]

There are actually a lot of AMD cards that have native macOS drivers now, including a few non-RX workstation cards.

 

[SolidCake]

Could you elaborate?

 

[namethisfile]

Could you elaborate?

Yeah.

Since Macs are using Polaris and Vega for iMac Pro, current lineup of AMD cards basically work in High Sierra. I am not sure if things will change in the future. But, from what I hear, they work OOB, without needing to modify KEXT or anything of that nature (at least, for High Sierra).

In my own experience, RX 460 is an OOB, P&P affair in High Sierra, which was also the case in Sierra.

And, some Firepro models that have Polaris chips also work the same way from what I understand. Although, I do not know if its workstation class and workstation like price tag offers any performance gain or feature set gain than regular RX lineup, in the case of, using it in a Mac Pro 5,1 with MacOS HS or S.

 

[flowrider]

Suplemental Web Driver is here:

https://images.nvidia.com/mac/pkg/378/WebDriver-378.10.10.10.15.117.pkg

Lou

 

[Dr. Stealth]

Suplemental Web Driver is here:

https://images.nvidia.com/mac/pkg/378/WebDriver-378.10.10.10.15.117.pkg

Lou

Ha! Been looking for that. Thanks Lou !

 

[MisterAndrew]

There’s a partial list of supported cards for an earlier beta of High Sierra in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/egpu-support-in-high-sierra-officially-announced.2048480/page-5

You’re welcome to make a more complete list for the latest High Sierra build based on the device IDs located in each driver. It may take some detective work to match the device ID to a card not listed, especially if it hasn’t been released yet (for example we now know the device IDs for the Vega FE and WX 9100). But as namethisfile pointed out most of the current AMD cards are supported. For practicality, if there’s a card you’re interested in you can find the device ID for it and then check the drivers to see if it’s supported.

 

[h9826790]

For AMD card, it’s either OOTB or not supported at all. For Pre Maxwell card, one of the big advantages of the Nvidia card is that OSX has native support for those card. So, you have the web driver as back up. If Apple suddenly stop supporting your card, or it has bugs etc, you can switch to web driver and still can be a happy user.

But since Maxwell, Apple stop supporting any new Nvidia card. Now, the Nvidia card’s situation is not much better than AMD card. If Nvidia stop supporting them, or provide buggy driver, users has no backup plan. Even worse, it can be a nightmare to deal with the web driver (black screen, boot loop, etc). It’s hard to know what Apple will do next to stop us using the new Nvidia card. e.g. a user now report even with the flashed card, a PRAM reset can still get into boot loop.

For AMD card, there is one more extra limitation, any non reference may not work in MacOS. For Nvidia card, AFAIK, the web driver can power any card as long as it’s in the family that is supoorted, regardless if that’s a reference design or not. But in AMD, clearly not the case. e.g. None of the single slot RX460 works in MacOS..

IMO, of the user need CUDA, then no choice, Nvidia is the way to go (however, MacOS most likely is not a must).

If the user only need mid level card, then AMD new card is the way to go (e.g. RX580). Just pick the correct card that should have proper driver support (study which GPU inside the iMac, MacBook Pro, or eGPU developer kit), then the life should be very easy.

If the user only need low end card. I still recommend the old 7950 / 680, or anything below that but can be flashed. Regardless their performance, those card still has best support, most mature driver, and able to provide boot screen can be a big advantage in some situation (e.g. in High Sierra with APFS, using boot screen is the only way to let the user choose between Windows / MacOS on next boot. Bootchamp can let users switch between OS, but not really let us “choose”).

 

[SolidCake]

There’s a partial list of supported cards for an earlier beta of High Sierra in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/egpu-support-in-high-sierra-officially-announced.2048480/page-5

You’re welcome to make a more complete list for the latest High Sierra build based on the device IDs located in each driver. It may take some detective work to match the device ID to a card not listed, especially if it hasn’t been released yet (for example we now know the device IDs for the Vega FE and WX 9100). But as namethisfile pointed out most of the current AMD cards are supported. For practicality, if there’s a card you’re interested in you can find the device ID for it and then check the drivers to see if it’s supported.

Hey, thanks for explaining. I switched to the 1080 Ti from dual RX 480 8GB's. I haven't kept up with the latest developments since I switched. I got tired of doing all the kext edits every update and then doing more kext edits to get full acceleration out of the cards. But the RX480's were insane in Final Cut Pro X, Bruce X was done in about 10 seconds. The 1080 Ti, with webdrivers, needs about a minute to get it done.

 

[flehman]

I did a PRAM reset, and now I cannot start my HFS-formatted High Sierra partition (without recovery partition because I cloned it with CCC). I'm in a boot loop now, even with an EFI card and Nvidia web drivers installed...

High Sierra seems more problematic than other OS before.

My main drive is still on 10.12.6, so no problem so far. I will delete High Sierra and reinstall it.

Have posted this elsewhere but is relevant - I experienced the same issue with a APFS-formatted drive with 10.13 (no supplemental update). I reset PRAM to see if it had anything to do with the block of error text I was seeing during startup, and got the boot loop. I rolled back to 10.12.6. I may be waiting for awhile before taking another crack at HS.

4,1->5,1 with MVC-flashed 980.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Hey, thanks for explaining. I switched to the 1080 Ti from dual RX 480 8GB's. I haven't kept up with the latest developments since I switched. I got tired of doing all the kext edits every update and then doing more kext edits to get full acceleration out of the cards. But the RX480's were insane in Final Cut Pro X, Bruce X was done in about 10 seconds. The 1080 Ti, with webdrivers, needs about a minute to get it done.

Oh, you may want to switch back to the RX 480’s now or just go with a Vega since those don’t require kext edits now.

 

[flowrider]

Not really. However, please read this thread, Post #3987:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ia-pc-non-efi-graphics-cards.1440150/page-160

There is a step described that you MUST do to install the High Sierra Update on a disk that has Nvidia Web Drivers.

Lou

 

[SolidCake]

Oh, you may want to switch back to the RX 480’s now or just go with a Vega since those don’t require kext edits now.

I would love to but the RX 480/580 prices are insane right now. I sold my 480's during the Ethereum mining craze, I managed to buy a GTX 1080 Ti and a separate power supply with the money I made from selling them. I'll wait until Vega gets optimised and little more competitive before considering a new card.