NVMe with ST-NGFF2013-C; Vega Internal GPU; Mac Pro 2013 (6,1)

[steve123]

Good question. What speeds do you get that way? If you have it in a thunderbolt port it likely is running at pretty good speeds

Apologies, I did not use the same benchmark for all of these tests.

This is the speed of the Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB SSD installed into the Mac Pro 6,1 internal NVMe slot:

I have a couple different enclosures now. I got this MAIWO dual bay enclosure which has a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 interface because it had a separate power supply and 20 Gbps speed. I tried this with the Apple TB3 (USB-C) to TB2 adapter fantasizing that I would get both PCIe lanes of the Gen 2x2 interface to connect to the two PCIe lanes of the TB2 interface. Even though I can power the device separately, the Apple adapter will not allow the drive to connect to the TB2 host port on the Mac Pro 6,1 at all. So, I have to use a USB 3.0 port on the Mac Pro 6,1 for this enclosure.

The speed of the Samsung 980 PRO in the MAIWO enclosure connected to USB 3.0 on a Mac Pro 6,1:

For comparison, the speed of the Samsung 980 PRO in the MAIWO enclosure on an M2 Max which enumerates the drive as USB 3.2 Gen 2 with a speed of 10 Gbps:

I am also trying out this INDMEM TB4/USB4 enclosure. For me this one was about 33% less expensive than the ACASIS and about 1/2 the price of an ORICO TB4 enclosure. Speed of the Samsung 980 PRO in the INDMEM enclosure connected to a USB 3.0 port of the Mac Pro 6,1 is:

For comparison, speed of the Samsung 980 PRO in the INDMEM enclosure connected to a TB4 port of the MBP M2 Max is:

 

[tabormeister]

Connect the TB4 adapter to the TB2 port with the apple adapter, VERY interested to see how fast that would be. Might get to around 2kMBps with overhead!

 

[steve123]

Connect the TB4 adapter to the TB2 port with the apple adapter, VERY interested to see how fast that would be. Might get to around 2kMBps with overhead!

Unfortunately, that does not work. The INDMEM enclosure does not have a separate power supply so there is no way to power the device when using the Apple adapter since that adapter does not support power delivery to the drive. The only way to connect the INDMEM to the TB2 host port on the Mac Pro 6,1 would be through a TB4 or TB3 dock. I have been trying to avoid going the dock route since they are quite expensive. Beyond connecting the SSD I do not really have much need for a dock. Though, I've been reading about some guys using an LG 48" C2 OLED TV as a monitor ...

 

[tabormeister]

Unfortunately, that does not work. The INDMEM enclosure does not have a separate power supply so there is no way to power the device when using the Apple adapter since that adapter does not support power delivery to the drive. The only way to connect the INDMEM to the TB2 host port on the Mac Pro 6,1 would be through a TB4 or TB3 dock. I have been trying to avoid going the dock route since they are quite expensive. Beyond connecting the SSD I do not really have much need for a dock. Though, I've been reading about some guys using an LG 48" C2 OLED TV as a monitor ...

Tb3 docks are cheap! Targus Dock 220, Belkin thunderbolt 3 Express and others are usually on eBay for under $40. Just make sure you get one with a power supply and TWO tb3 ports (one upstream for the apple adapter, one downstream for the drive adapter)

 

[zzzippp]

This is the speed of the Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB SSD installed into the Mac Pro 6,1 internal NVMe slot

Out of curiosity, was this speed test done with macOS installed on and booted from the Fury Renegade? If yes, which version of macOS?

 

[steve123]

Out of curiosity, was this speed test done with macOS installed on and booted from the Fury Renegade? If yes, which version of macOS?

Yes. That particular screenshot was taken when I was running Big Sur 11.7.4 on a Mac Pro 6,1. I ran the tests on my Mac Pro 6,1 with macOS booting and running from the SSD with macOS versions Big Sur 11.7.5, Monterey 12.6.4 and Ventura 13.2.1 and 13.3. The results were all similar to this. I also ran several tests with the SSD installed in a Thunderbolt 4 enclosure and a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 enclosure.

 

[steve123]

which version of macOS?

I should clarify that running Ventura on my Mac Pro 6,1 required OCLP 0.6.2

 

[tabormeister]

I should clarify that running Ventura on my Mac Pro 6,1 required OCLP 0.6.2

I just bought a thunderbolt 3 dock for $40, will update you if it'll work with a Dell power brick because if so you can get a dock and brick for like $25

 

[steve123]

I just bought a thunderbolt 3 dock for $40, will update you if it'll work with a Dell power brick because if so you can get a dock and brick for like $25

Which dock did you get? Let me know how it works out. When I looked around on Ebay, I found a number of docks for sale but they did not include the power brick. The items I found that included the power brick were more expensive and when the shipping was added they were getting close to the price of one of the less expensive hubs. There was a no-name dock for sale on Ebay for $29 back in Feb but those quickly sold out and the seller does not anticipate selling more of them.

The Ebay sleuthing got me thinking, why don't we have a hub/dock with Dual Role Power on the upstream port? If DRP was supported it would be possible to power the hub/dock from the host. DRP would be a handy feature to have when go mobile. Ideally, a hub/dock would also have a pass-through USB-PD port that would allow use of any USB-PD power supply instead of a single use brick.

 

[steve123]

Connect the TB4 adapter to the TB2 port with the apple adapter, VERY interested to see how fast that would be. Might get to around 2kMBps with overhead!

So I got a TB4 hub and tried this. The result was not at all what I was expecting:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/owc-thunderbolt-4-hub.2283199/post-32083923

 

[tabormeister]

Which dock did you get? Let me know how it works out. When I looked around on Ebay, I found a number of docks for sale but they did not include the power brick. The items I found that included the power brick were more expensive and when the shipping was added they were getting close to the price of one of the less expensive hubs. There was a no-name dock for sale on Ebay for $29 back in Feb but those quickly sold out and the seller does not anticipate selling more of them.

The Ebay sleuthing got me thinking, why don't we have a hub/dock with Dual Role Power on the upstream port? If DRP was supported it would be possible to power the hub/dock from the host. DRP would be a handy feature to have when go mobile. Ideally, a hub/dock would also have a pass-through USB-PD port that would allow use of any USB-PD power supply instead of a single use brick.

That would be rad! I grabbed a Belkin TB3 Express, F4U095

If you have tb3 cables AND a beefy Dell laptop adapter then you can just get a bare dock (just a 20v 8.5a adapter comes with them, standard barrel jack)

Here's one with both for fifty bucks

USED BELKIN THUNDEBOLT 3 Express USB 3.0 Docking Station F4U095 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for USED BELKIN THUNDEBOLT 3 Express USB 3.0 Docking Station F4U095 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[steve123]

Here's one with both for fifty bucks

Thanks for the heads up. Have you tried this one out on the MP 6,1? Does it enumerate in System Information? The OWC TB4 hub I have does not enumerate. The only way to mount my SSD requires a reboot and if you eject a disk, you have to reboot to remount it.

 

[tabormeister]

Thanks for the heads up. Have you tried this one out on the MP 6,1? Does it enumerate in System Information? The OWC TB4 hub I have does not enumerate. The only way to mount my SSD requires a reboot and if you eject a disk, you have to reboot to remount it.

I haven't, it definitely works with my wife's MacBook pro, but that's a tb3 Mac. I have some TB2 Macs but don't have a TB2 cable anymore to test with, just sold it lol

 

[steve123]

Came across this external dock today. Sonnet confirmed it will work with the TB 2 adapter and achieve a transfer rate about 1350 MBps which is similar to the speed of the internal SSD. It is a dual NVMe dock and has one downstream TB3 port and 4 USB 3 Gen 2 ports. The two NVMe disks can be configured as RAID0 and when connected to a TB3 or TB4 host, can achieve speeds of 2700 MB/s.

The physical unit is large but includes a built in fan for cooling the SSD's. It is expensive though ... if it was priced at $149.00 it would be a no-brainer.

Echo Dual NVMe Thunderbolt Dock - SONNETTECH

Thunderbolt docking station with two M.2 NVMe SSD slots, four USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) ports, and up to 5K display support. For Mac, Windows, and iPad Pro.

www.sonnettech.com

 

[tabormeister]

Came across this external dock today. Sonnet confirmed it will work with the TB 2 adapter and achieve a transfer rate about 1350 MBps which is similar to the speed of the internal SSD. It is a dual NVMe dock and has one downstream TB3 port and 4 USB 3 Gen 2 ports. The two NVMe disks can be configured as RAID0 and when connected to a TB3 or TB4 host, can achieve speeds of 2700 MB/s.

The physical unit is large but includes a built in fan for cooling the SSD's. It is expensive though ... if it was priced at $149.00 it would be a no-brainer.

Echo Dual NVMe Thunderbolt Dock - SONNETTECH

Thunderbolt docking station with two M.2 NVMe SSD slots, four USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) ports, and up to 5K display support. For Mac, Windows, and iPad Pro.

www.sonnettech.com

If you can do 2700 in raid 0 then one fast SSD should be able to hit that over tb2... Confusing

 

[tsialex]

If you can do 2700 in raid 0 then one fast SSD should be able to hit that over tb2... Confusing

You can never get anything over the maximum real life transfer bandwidth for the late-2013 Thunderbolt 2 connection, which is around 1250 to 1300Mbps, that's the bottleneck (PCIe v2.0 x4, see below).

 

[steve123]

If you can do 2700 in raid 0 then one fast SSD should be able to hit that over tb2... Confusing

There are only two PCIe lanes per NVMe slot. It is a Gen 3 PCIe TB3 controller, so each slot gets 8 x 2 = 16 Gbps. That is why you max out at about 1350 MBps per SSD. Two slots provide 8 x 4 = 32 Gbps of bandwidth which is about 2700 MBps. When connected to the TB2 port, the data rate will be limited by the speed of the TB2 port.