Official Skeptical About iPhone Thread

[Digital Skunk]

My #1/biggest thing is Cingular. It's GSM. There is less GSM coverage in the US. GSM does have a shorter length/strength of radio frequency range compared to GSM, by a margin of almost twice! There are less GSM providers (and tower cohost services), meaning that there are less options for roaming providers (paid for by your provider, unpaid roaming, emergency roaming, or otherwise!).

My #2 complaint is likely going to be price and value. Cingular/AT&T have NOT been known to offer a lot of value when it comes to price plans and wireless features. I'm sure the data, especially since it's been beefed up for the iPhone rollout, is going to be exorbitant compared to CDMA services. It's about $15 a month for me to put my Treo on Sprint even with full web access being tunneled to my Mac or whatever browser on the Treo! (And actually, since I'm on the Sprint Employee Referral Offer (SERO) plan, it's free for me, and my plan is discounted.) I am so afraid that I'm going to be forced to get a $40+/month plan and then another $40/month data plan.

It sounds like you have a pretty much good deal with wireless service with Sprint... albeit the iPhone being a cool and rather top of the line phone. I never thought about how much my bill will increase when I get the Treo and the data plan until I read your post... and yeah... it is only an extra $15 for unlimited service... sign me up.

OMG, please iPhone haters keep all of your ramblings in this thread. I'm sick of hearing how much you hate the iPhone. Why do you all feel the need to waste so much time saying how much you hate something? It's sick and disturbing IMO.

Um... no one originally intended for this to be an iPhone haters thread... please read the first post, add informative and interesting comments, or go somewhere else please... I don't think anyone wants two members bashing each other over someone elses lack of respect for a thread or post.

i've been saying that for days, but the iphone haters seem to think since this IS the iphone forum they can keep talking about why they're not getting it over and over.

So the iPhone lovers are going to just keep posting about how many people they can find in their area that are getting the iPhone? "Anyone is houston getting it?... anyone in Chicago?" Seems pretty mindless to me... just like much of the news of the iPhone. Actually... I like the phone... don't see any reason to switch service providers and get it unless you just have money for no reason or you just can't stand your current provider (both of which are good reasons).

Since the phone is coming out soon can we get some new news? Like the recently posted comments from AppleInsider. MacRumors did just what I asked them to. Go get news from some other rumor site and regurgitate it so people can stop hearing about the iPhone and hear about the other 95% of Apple's industry.

 

[yg17]

i've been saying that for days, but the iphone haters seem to think since this IS the iphone forum they can keep talking about why they're not getting it over and over.

This is the iPhone forum, not the "Worship the iPhone and the ground Steve walks on" forum. Discussion about the iPhone in any form is acceptable.

 

[cmschmidt]

This is the iPhone forum, not the "Worship the iPhone and the ground Steve walks on" forum. Discussion about the iPhone in any form is acceptable.

to an extent i agree absolutely. but when just about every thread gets hijacked into "well i'm not getting it and i hate it and youre a sucker for buying into the iphone" it gets old quick.

i think this thread is a great place for it however.

 

[aristobrat]

GSM does have a shorter length/strength of radio frequency range compared to GSM, by a margin of almost twice!

Huh?

Are you trying to say that whichever carriers that have the 850mhz licenses in an area don't have to build as many towers as the carriers with 1900mhz licenses because 850mhz travels further and penetrates structures better?

I'd agree with that.

Just remember that AT&T has a significant amount of 850mhz GSM towers (at one point it was close to 50% of their network), and in the areas where they're on 1900mhz, they simply have to add more towers to provide the same coverage as whoever's on 850mhz.

In regards to your comment about GSM coverage being lacking in the US, it's interesting that Verizon/Sprint are having BlackBerry make models that are CDMA+GSM, but I've never seen a GSM carrier request a GSM+CDMA phone.

 

[yg17]

to an extent i agree absolutely. but when just about every thread gets hijacked into "well i'm not getting it and i hate it and youre a sucker for buying into the iphone" it gets old quick.

i think this thread is a great place for it however.

gets as old as the LOL OMG IPHONE IS AWESOME IM WAITIGN A WEEK OUTSIDE THE CINGULAR STORE FOR IT THE IHPONE IS GOIN TO PWN PALM, RIM AND MICROSOFT LOL OMG CANT WAIT I HAD A DREAM ABOUT THE IPHONE LAST NIGHT IS IT JUNE 29TH YET OMG!!!!! crap.

 

[cmschmidt]

gets as old as the LOL OMG IPHONE IS AWESOME IM WAITIGN A WEEK OUTSIDE THE CINGULAR STORE FOR IT THE IHPONE IS GOIN TO PWN PALM, RIM AND MICROSOFT LOL OMG CANT WAIT I HAD A DREAM ABOUT THE IPHONE LAST NIGHT IS IT JUNE 29TH YET OMG!!!!! crap.

thanks for the caps. i get on to people for reposting that same crap everywhere too and get yelled at anyway.

man i'm really glad we don't actually know each other, cause we would hate each other for life...

 

[yg17]

Huh?

Are you trying to say that whichever carriers that have the 850mhz licenses in an area don't have to build as many towers as the carriers with 1900mhz licenses because 850mhz travels further and penetrates structures better?

I'd agree with that.

Just remember that AT&T has a significant amount of 850mhz GSM towers (at one point it was close to 50% of their network), and in the areas where they're on 1900mhz, they simply have to add more towers to provide the same coverage as whoever's on 850mhz.

In regards to your comment about GSM coverage being lacking in the US, it's interesting that Verizon/Sprint are having BlackBerry make models that are CDMA+GSM, but I've never seen a GSM carrier request a GSM+CDMA phone.

The CDMA/GSM BlackBerries will not work on any GSM network in the US. Verizon/Sprint/RIM have locked it down to make sure of that. It's only for roaming overseas. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they removed the 850 and 1900 MHz bands.

The whole 850 vs 1900 argument is moot anyways. I went from Cingular (mostly 850) to T-Mobile (all 1900) and T-Mobile's coverage is sooooooo much better. If you have a competent carrier, it doesn't matter. They either have more towers or more powerful radios on the towers, but there coverage is a lot better here.

I work in an office with a datacenter that was built to withstand an F5 tornado or big earthquake. No windows, walls are nearly a foot of concrete, etc, and I get 5 bars with T-Mobile. I barely had a signal with Cingular. So the fact that technically, 1900 doesn't travel as far or penetrate buildings as well as 850 is a moot point when the carrier does things the right way.

 

[yg17]

thanks for the caps. i get on to people for reposting that same crap everywhere too and get yelled at anyway.

man i'm really glad we don't actually know each other, cause we would hate each other for life...

I wouldn't hate anybody for being an iPhone fanboy, just like I don't hate Microsoft fanboys. Disagreement doesn't equal hate

 

[66217]

I understand that any hardware is prone to defects, but if I waited 6 or more months for an updated MacBook Pro... and then Apple releases this current Santa Rosa MBP... I would have asked myself what the heck I waited 6 months for. I was kind of expecting some new BTO options, Blue-Ray, HD-DVD, integrated 3G, much faster CPUs, better battery life, more USB ports or one extra FW400, maybe a slightly new design to get rid of that annoying latch or an easier way to replace the HDD.

Blue-Ray? HD-DVD? Integrated 3G? Most user would never use these things. So why increase the price of the laptop by including this?

Faster CPUs? Don't be ridiculous, the ones the MBP has are fast enough.

Better battery life? 6 hours isn't enough?


I don't intend to offend you by no means, but sometimes people ask for impossibles, and you seem to be asking for an impossible.

 

[cmschmidt]

i definitely don't consider myself an iphone fanboy. i just wish there wasn't such a rampant overposting of peoples identical opinions (both good and bad). i think the phone will be good, but that doesn't mean there arent things about it that disappoint me. i just read everybody elses postings saying the exact same things i'm thinking and don't really see a need to say it over agan.

 

[aristobrat]

Since the phone is coming out soon can we get some new news? Like the recently posted comments from AppleInsider. MacRumors did just what I asked them to. Go get news from some other rumor site and regurgitate it so people can stop hearing about the iPhone and hear about the other 95% of Apple's industry.

I wish there was a way I could export from my Google Reader to do a proper analysis, but when I pool all of my Apple news/rumor RSS feeds together, there is an incredible amount of non-iPhone related news.

If anything, all of Apple's industry seems to be getting covered, and it seems that your beef is that the forum users are giving too much traction to the stories about the iPhone for your taste. No?

 

[aristobrat]

The whole 850 vs 1900 argument is moot anyways. I went from Cingular (mostly 850) to T-Mobile (all 1900) and T-Mobile's coverage is sooooooo much better. If you have a competent carrier, it doesn't matter.

That was kind of the point I was trying to make -- a properly built 1900mhz network functions just as well as a properly built 850mhz network, regardless of whether it's a CDMA or GSM network.

FWIW, as of a year or so, Cingular's 850mhz coverage wasn't quite 50% of their network. Don't know if that's changed much, but I don't imagine it has.

 

[AppleIntelRock]

Ah, I see now you have us mistaken and are indeed lost. Sir, if i may, direct you to the "I love zune" forums, located, I believe at the interstice of the internet. I think you will find the intellectual, air, sort to speak, of that sort of place, how should I say, more to your liking.

Good day, sir.

thats the kind of attitude that is preventing ANY carrier from carrying the iphone in Europe. This IS an iPhone DISCUSSION section, not the, ONLY positive, no negative, happy flowers iPhone forum. The iPod HAS negatives, and they're fine to discuses. That being said, even if it totally flops, it'll be better then ANY other phone on the market. HTC touch? Spare me. Windows mobile is worse then Windows Vista. It's either Palm OS or iPhone for me. What I love about this is I'll be able to plug it into my computer and be done. No software to install, no "missing syncs" to hassle with, just plug and go. Hell, you don't even have to setup your email!
AMEN!

iPhone PWR

 

[FF_productions]

I'm not getting an iPhone, not cause I hate it but I just can't afford paying $500+ dollars for a phone.

I already have a decent Sprint phone that cost nearly 200 bucks last year (a900) and I don't even need to make that many phone calls.


My Uncle is switching providers just so he can get the 8 gig iPhone. I can't wait to play around with it.

I think the iPhone will be a hit, it surely won't flop but I wonder if the price will start to settle down as the years go by...

 

[AppleIntelRock]

I'm not getting an iPhone, not cause I hate it but I just can't afford paying $500+ dollars for a phone.

I already have a decent Sprint phone that cost nearly 200 bucks last year (a900) and I don't even need to make that many phone calls.


My Uncle is switching providers just so he can get the 8 gig iPhone. I can't wait to play around with it.

I think the iPhone will be a hit, it surely won't flop but I wonder if the price will start to settle down as the years go by...

500! thats a fair price. With activation, price differences, canceling my plan, tax etc. an 8 GB iPhone will end up costing me............

$1,500 over the next 24 months (remember, thats also because att is more expensive)

Up-front cost will be around $855

It'll all be worth it

 

[yg17]

That was kind of the point I was trying to make -- a properly built 1900mhz network functions just as well as a properly built 850mhz network, regardless of whether it's a CDMA or GSM network.

FWIW, as of a year or so, Cingular's 850mhz coverage wasn't quite 50% of their network. Don't know if that's changed much, but I don't imagine it has.

lol, looks like you were trying to make that point. I was at work and was supposed to have a bunch of java code on my screen, not forums, so I quickly read and typed posts

 

[Digital Skunk]

Hopefully Apple won't need to announce a future product as far in advance like they had to with the iPhone.

"When's it going to be available? We're shipping them in June -- we're announcing it today because we have to go get FCC approval... we thought it'd be better to introduce this today rather than let the FCC introduce this."

As for it not being the only product that Apple makes, and others need updating, blah blah blah, there's still:
July 1-31 +
August 1-31 +
September 1-30 +
October 1-31 +
November 1-30 +
December 1-31

I bet you that if you were waiting for the iPhone like some are waiting for the iPod and you had no word of when it was coming... (ie Steve just said that it was coming and gave no date) you would be saying the same thing in the iPod thread about the plethora of news about the iPod and none whatsoever about the iPhone.

This is the iPhone forum, not the "Worship the iPhone and the ground Steve walks on" forum. Discussion about the iPhone in any form is acceptable.

Thank you for your understanding this simple fact that so many seem to forget... there are plenty "I don't like the new SR MBP" threads in the MacBook forum.

to an extent i agree absolutely. but when just about every thread gets hijacked into "well i'm not getting it and i hate it and youre a sucker for buying into the iphone" it gets old quick.

i think this thread is a great place for it however.

That is funny because every thread in this forum is the "How many people in _________ (place name of state here) are getting the iPhone" type that has even more airheaded suburban kids talking about cool expensive gadgets that they don't understand than a private school.

Blue-Ray? HD-DVD? Integrated 3G? Most user would never use these things. So why increase the price of the laptop by including this?

Faster CPUs? Don't be ridiculous, the ones the MBP has are fast enough.

Better battery life? 6 hours isn't enough?


I don't intend to offend you by no means, but sometimes people ask for impossibles, and you seem to be asking for an impossible.

Not the impossible... just the usual innovation... remember when the iPhone was still just a rumor and everyone just wanted Apple to make a phone that did some phone things only better... look what we got:

Touchscreen UI
Kick but iPod features that the iPod doesn't have
Fullscreen movie playback
Scroll and pinch navigation of photos, coverflow, and visual voicemail...

You heard the milion and 1 threads... I hope you get the idea. As for people never using them.... that is what everyone says about any tech that isn't a standard yet... not everyone will use visual voicemail but make it standard and everyone will use it. The processors were fast enough in the previous model.... there is no way that .06Ghz is a speed increase... so why even bother updating them then. Because they have to, but they could at least add something other than the cute stuff geeks like... like the things pros will use. As for raising the price.... make it BTO and bam!! your price the same.

I wish there was a way I could export from my Google Reader to do a proper analysis, but when I pool all of my Apple news/rumor RSS feeds together, there is an incredible amount of non-iPhone related news.

If anything, all of Apple's industry seems to be getting covered, and it seems that your beef is that the forum users are giving too much traction to the stories about the iPhone for your taste. No?

Yes... Yes as in NO that isn't my beef. My beef is with the this site and a few others that I navigate to. I only go to a 4 or so news agencies for my news so why go to more than 4 websites for my rumors. And of all the rumor sites MacRumors is the Largest.

Ah, I see now you have us mistaken and are indeed lost. Sir, if i may, direct you to the "I love zune" forums, located, I believe at the interstice of the internet. I think you will find the intellectual, air, sort to speak, of that sort of place, how should I say, more to your liking.

Good day, sir.

English.... too.... horrible..... to.... understand.... must resist!

 

[n00basaur]

I don't care why you haters aren't getting one; go blog somewhere else about your personal thoughts regarding the phone. There is nothing constructive about these types of threads.

 

[cmschmidt]

That is funny because every thread in this forum is the "How many people in _________ (place name of state here) are getting the iPhone" type that has even more airheaded suburban kids talking about cool expensive gadgets that they don't understand than a private school.

i still think those threads are more useful than 10 threads of: "I hate iPhone and I'm not getting it...heres why"

at least people discussing which stores they think are best to go to in their area and how big they think it will be in their city are helping in some way.

 

[yg17]

I don't care why you haters aren't getting one; go blog somewhere else about your personal thoughts regarding the phone. There is nothing constructive about these types of threads.

I don't care why you fanboys are getting one; go blog somewhere else about your personal thoughts regarding the phone. There is nothing constructive about these types of threads.

 

[aristobrat]

Yes... Yes as in NO that isn't my beef. My beef is with the this site and a few others that I navigate to. I only go to a 4 or so news agencies for my news so why go to more than 4 websites for my rumors. And of all the rumor sites MacRumors is the Largest.

If you take the last 2.5 weeks of MacRumors Page 1 stories (about 76 of them), ~23 of them were iPhone related, which means that the other 70% of the rumors/news were not iPhone related.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I don't care why you haters aren't getting one; go blog somewhere else about your personal thoughts regarding the phone. There is nothing constructive about these types of threads.

Stop trying to start trouble and go somewhere else with your own I hate iPhone haters post... what sense does posting that make... it will just get you nowhere.

i still think those threads are more useful than 10 threads of: "I hate iPhone and I'm not getting it...heres why"

at least people discussing which stores they think are best to go to in their area and how big they think it will be in their city are helping in some way.

But how? And this thread is about the rumors and posts on other rumor sites about the iPhone and the lack of other important news.

If you take the last 2.5 weeks of MacRumors Page 1 stories (about 76 of them), ~23 of them were iPhone related, which means that the other 70% of the rumors/news were not iPhone related.

I have looked through the former posts... and yes there are a good deal more threads about non iPhone related stuff I will give you that. I recant my earlier statements about the lack of news...

P.S. Thanks for not being an obtuse idiot like some of the other posters.

 

[cmschmidt]

But how? And this thread is about the rumors and posts on other rumor sites about the iPhone and the lack of other important news.

P.S. Thanks for not being an obtuse idiot like some of the other posters.

because people collaborating about how they're going to get their phone or where is giving people better ideas of where they can better expect to find one. (based on location, regular store traffic, etc...) its a useful thread and could actually lead to people getting together off the internet and meeting in their area for the iPhone release.

Oh and by the way, calling people obtuse idiots here isn't a very good way to get your point across, not to mention can get you into trouble forum-wise. but i guess you're above that huh?

 

[mattthemutt]

The CDMA/GSM BlackBerries will not work on any GSM network in the US. Verizon/Sprint/RIM have locked it down to make sure of that. It's only for roaming overseas. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they removed the 850 and 1900 MHz bands.

The whole 850 vs 1900 argument is moot anyways. I went from Cingular (mostly 850) to T-Mobile (all 1900) and T-Mobile's coverage is sooooooo much better. If you have a competent carrier, it doesn't matter. They either have more towers or more powerful radios on the towers, but there coverage is a lot better here.

I work in an office with a datacenter that was built to withstand an F5 tornado or big earthquake. No windows, walls are nearly a foot of concrete, etc, and I get 5 bars with T-Mobile. I barely had a signal with Cingular. So the fact that technically, 1900 doesn't travel as far or penetrate buildings as well as 850 is a moot point when the carrier does things the right way.

If I read this correctly, I see that many of us believe that such tech specs are essential to the evolution, sales, and marketing of the iPhone. I realize that there's no point in buying something that is technically inferior, I must reiterate my previous point: the iPhone's importance is not a material, technical importance.

I believe that it will sell whether or not the technicalities of the inner workings are corrected, provided that Apple's marketing goons keep up the good work. Look at the iPod for example; the technology in the iPod is not perfect. In fact, it is quite far from it. We're all aware of those problems, but Apple's marketing is able to brush those negative thoughts out of the public's line of sight, and has been very successful in selling one hundred million super-popular MP3 players.

I'm not necessarily responding to the arguments of the frequencies, but more about the fact that the iPhone is technically flawed.

If Apple is to succeed in taking RIM and Palm's share of the smartphone market, they must appeal to the executive-folks who don't know a USB port from an IEEE 1394 port.

That's just my two cents. I'd love to hear your reactions to my rambling.

 

[AppleIntelRock]

I beg to differ, sir! We are far past the decorum and civil conduct expected from one in a public forum of discussion, reflecting, say, on the state of empire or the price of tea. Nay, I say this place has long sunk to the level of the commons where one might be witness to a much more unrefined sort of quarrel, such as a butcher might have with the baker next door.

Indeed, now is the time for a battle of wills utilising witty banter and a sharp wit, and on that note, I do believe I am winning.

I am not impressed by your use of words that I'm sure you think make you sound incredibly intelligent. All I read was meaningless bloviation and ridiculous comparisons. I apologize sir, hopefully someone will help you remove your heard from a place it surely shouldn't be.