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Officially giving up on the Mac Mini 2018 + 4K monitor dream
- Thread starter Tigerman82
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Ok let me rephrase then - I wasn't aware of even any roadmapped replacement for that CPU.
I never understood this thread. The only issue I can see with integrated graphics is if you are doing Video editing or gaming. In that case I would get an eGPU. My Late 2018 mac mini 3.2Ghz 6-Core i7 / 16GB can drive two LG 27UD58P-B 4K displays using scaling without any issues for normal productivity, development work. One is "looks like" 2560x1440 and the other 3008x1692. I feel like even at scaled resolution 4K at "looks like" 2560x1440 is sharper than a native 1440p 27" display. I feel text is not fuzzy at all compared to lower DPI displays. System Report says both of my displays run at 60Hz. One is connected to HDMI port and the other is USB-C to HDMI 2.0 active conversion cable.
Myself and others have found not insignificant lag/glitches for basic desktop operations (i.e. dragging a window around) when using 2 scaled displays with the mini.
I find it hard to believe you don't have the same issues - do you just live with the lag?
I dont have a second display. But I can confirm that I have not even a hint of a problem scaling around on a 4K display.
I've the same experience - if I run just one display at a non-default scaled resolution, it performs fine. Two is not pleasant though.
I don't have any lag. Apps I use - Visual Studio Code, Terminal, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Slack, Messages, WhatsApp, Word, Excel, Photos, Image Capture - thats all I really use.
I have two 27" 4K displays. I did go into Accessibility settings and check the boxes for Reduce Motion, Reduce Transparency - people were suggesting that when the first 2018's were delivered. I've also come across threads mentioning no lag on 16GB+ configurations. Do you think my GPU is being taxed less because of accessibility changes?
What UI functions are lagging?
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Given that my machine has 64GB I'm pretty sure that isn't the difference.
Practically everything lags, to varying degrees - moving windows around, response to typing, menus, etc etc. and visual glitches (i.e non-smooth animation) are pretty common.
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I'm going to experiment with 'disable reduced transparency' turned on.
After receiving two LG 5k UltraFine units that exhibited uneven brightness, I’m thinking to try Dell 2720Q or LG 27UL850 — any opinions how much worse is the text rendering on 163 vs 218 ppi?
I think it would help to be specific about where we’re seeing UI lag, and when possible, share specific measurements. I’m testing a 8/256/3.0 i5 6C running Mojave with a 4K monitor set to 1440 HiDPI (scaled Retina). I see obvious lost frames in the animation opening the Applications folder grid in the Dock. But what really grates is what happens when I reply to a message in Mail. It takes 4-5 seconds for the reply window to appear. Switching to 1080 HiDPI (1080p Retina) it took 3.5s and had lost frames (choppy animation). At panel native 4K (2160p) it took 4 seconds but the animation was smooth. I don’t know what Apple’s target time is for the render of the reply window (usually they code to a fixed render time so the responsiveness is constant, even if the animation isn't smooth), but I experience this as frustrating UI lag.
As a (not entirely fair) comparison, my 2013 MacBook Air hooked up to the 4K display through a Thunderbolt 2 eGPU (Radeon RX460) renders the reply window in 2 seconds with a smooth animation at scaled Retina 1440. The grid display in the dock is also smooth. I had expected that the 2018 Mini would be equipped to handle the macOS UI smoothly at 4K, particularly given that Apple advertises it as being capable of driving three 4K monitors, but this does not appear to be the case. Some (non-Apple) apps also have the same scrolling and typing lag as the eGPU setup on the Mini when running in HiDPI scaled mode—I had hoped this was due to my unsupported configuration, but I guess it’s a rendering issue with those apps.
I wanted a simpler non-hacked setup (with less fan noise!) and was excited by the Mini, but will be sticking with my aged laptops (2011 17-inch too!) + eGPU for now.
As a (not entirely fair) comparison, my 2013 MacBook Air hooked up to the 4K display through a Thunderbolt 2 eGPU (Radeon RX460) renders the reply window in 2 seconds with a smooth animation at scaled Retina 1440. The grid display in the dock is also smooth. I had expected that the 2018 Mini would be equipped to handle the macOS UI smoothly at 4K, particularly given that Apple advertises it as being capable of driving three 4K monitors, but this does not appear to be the case. Some (non-Apple) apps also have the same scrolling and typing lag as the eGPU setup on the Mini when running in HiDPI scaled mode—I had hoped this was due to my unsupported configuration, but I guess it’s a rendering issue with those apps.
I wanted a simpler non-hacked setup (with less fan noise!) and was excited by the Mini, but will be sticking with my aged laptops (2011 17-inch too!) + eGPU for now.
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You’ll get much better performance by upgrading to 16GB of ram. It’s a well documented phenomenon that 8GB 2018 Mac minis perform horribly with a 4K display.
Try going into Accessibility settings control panel and selecting "Reduce Motion" ?
Following your comment earlier, I found that "Reduce transparency" has a noticeable (positive) effect on iGPU with scaled displays. Thanks!
I'm wrestling with exactly the same 2 choices. New Mini on order i7/32gb/1tb. Dell 2720q looks great on paper, but Dell provides zero Apple support and compatibility testing these days. Not much feedback on forums for that new one either, perhaps it's essentially the same as u2718q. I'm not too impressed with LG monitors in general though I've also considered the Apple/LG Ultrafine 4K 23.7" which would be fine for my use case. Availability seems to be really constrained on them now.
Responding because a 4+ sec lag between clicking on Reply and getting the window open would drive me crazy. Running 10.14.6 Mohave on a 16/128/3.6 i3 driving a BenQ PD2700Q at native resolution (2560x1440) I see a 1 second lag or less when opening a reply window. Your lag problem might be the 8MB memory issue mentioned by Stephen.R, or maybe Catalina (if that’s what you’re running), or maybe a little of both, or something else entirely. Like paybacks, lags are a bitch.
@djc6 how hot will the mini get? I have the same one but w/ 32GB and two 1440p 27" and it already is at 60°C running my dev-setup
I don't have any software installed to check temperatures. What do you use? I never hear my fans.
That said, I do keep office cold because I like fresh air and have window open. Its currently 54F inside my home office.
I can't really understand some of the issues quoted here, some make it sound like you can barely drive a monitor off the Mini.
I have a 2018 i5/8GB/256GB that I up upgraded to 32GB before first plugging in (was a very easy job) and run a Dell U3818W at 3840x1600 native and have had no issues. Originally HDMI and now USB C connection. I have also used a twin display setup using either an iMac 27" 2009 in target display mode or a Dell U2515H - both at 2560x1440 all with no lag or issues. I mainly use VS Code, Safari, MS Office and similar.
I have a 2018 i5/8GB/256GB that I up upgraded to 32GB before first plugging in (was a very easy job) and run a Dell U3818W at 3840x1600 native and have had no issues. Originally HDMI and now USB C connection. I have also used a twin display setup using either an iMac 27" 2009 in target display mode or a Dell U2515H - both at 2560x1440 all with no lag or issues. I mainly use VS Code, Safari, MS Office and similar.
Another data point: mini 2018 /w i7 & 32GB Ram running triple monitor setup just fine: 3440x1440 via TB adapter (Apple), 4k monitor via USB3 -> HDMI cable and a trusty old 1080p monitor via native HDMI port.
So far no visible problems (except having had to restart the 1080p (native HDMI) monitor after wake up, due to picture looking like a surrealistic painting with pixels showing up in all colors.
Video import, playback and light editing w/ lowly 1MP source material (old digitized D8/MiniDV movies) without noticeable problems.
I did notice, though, that with a “naked” Catalina installation (updated to current 10.15.5), the mini would already fill up 8-9 GB of Ram with no user-started programs running.
With only 8GB of Ram, I could imagine lots of SSD accesses going on in the background (as less files are cached in Ram). Combined with the comparably “slow” 128/256GB SSD, this could possibly impair user experience.
So far no visible problems (except having had to restart the 1080p (native HDMI) monitor after wake up, due to picture looking like a surrealistic painting with pixels showing up in all colors.
Video import, playback and light editing w/ lowly 1MP source material (old digitized D8/MiniDV movies) without noticeable problems.
I did notice, though, that with a “naked” Catalina installation (updated to current 10.15.5), the mini would already fill up 8-9 GB of Ram with no user-started programs running.
With only 8GB of Ram, I could imagine lots of SSD accesses going on in the background (as less files are cached in Ram). Combined with the comparably “slow” 128/256GB SSD, this could possibly impair user experience.
The lag is because the 4K monitor is running at 30hz where it should really be running at 60hz. I have a P2715Q which was giving only 30hz until I set MST to OFF. Suddenly it was beautiful 60hz with no lag. What I don't get is if I connect it to my DELL laptop that always outputs 60hz regardless of the MST setting. Seems Apple HW is very picky about how it allows 60hz in 4K.