OK iPad Sucks...What About The Competition?

[sonicboom]

User experience is the key to success

What I find amusing about these comparisons between the iPad and other devices is that none of them speak to how easy to use the device is or how reliable it is or how fast it runs both startup and operating speeds. All the comparisons do is talk about how many features one has over the other.

Exactly!

User experience is the key to success, something Apple is exceptionally good at delivering.

I looked at the PC tablets. They have been floundering for years, all for the same reason... shoehorning Windows in a tablet form doesn't work from a user experience standpoint. The Archos 9, for example, includes a stylus for a reason... your fingers cannot navigate Windows navigation objects (e.g., scrollbars, window management controls, menus). It's not a natural touch device. IMO, from what I've seen, the Archos 9 user-experience looks cumbersome and well... archaic.

If Apple had attempted to shoehorn Mac OS X in a tablet form, it too would have failed. I personally am glad they didn't go that route. I'm not saying the iPad is perfect, but it's on the right track and off to a great start.

To the OP, there really isn't a true competitor to the iPad today. Like the iPhone though, others will catch-on, get busy playing catch-up and eventually invent compelling alternatives (most likely android-based). Interesting times are ahead.

The iPads fate (like that of the iPhone) will depend on whether or not Apple can continue to stay ahead of the innovation curve, delivering new and interesting features that are natural for most humans to use.

 

[nwxtl88]

It is interesting that the "ease of use" and "really fun to use" factors don't get mentioned that often. The original statements from Ive and Jobs on how the web experience is so great with the iPad is about the overall fun of cruising around the universe with the touch system, not that everything you will do or want to do on the web works absolutely perfectly (i.e. no flash will be a problem for some people (a blessing for others)).

When I first got my iPod Touch, I was immediately thrilled by computing with the touch system. I love it. I do a fair bit of real computing on the Touch (database work, writing, searching, reading, etc.) and most of the time have a smile on my face. However, one of the things that I quickly realized, was that I wanted a bigger screen to do this, a hand held computer (tablet type computer) with this touch screen. The iPad is exactly what I wanted.

As to comparing the iPad to the Kindle, why not? Amazon is apparently concerned and one of the big uses often reported on in the other media is using the iPad as an ebook reader. Apple pushes iBooks. This forum has many messages about using the iPad as an ebook reader. Comparing the backlit screen of it to the eInk screen of Kindle has been done many times with the horrors "eyestrain" often mentioned. It's a fair comparison, if done in context. The iPad may not be perfect as an ebook reader for some people, but considering that most people are used to reading on a backlit screen already and the iPad does so much more than a Kindle, why buy a Kindle (unless you only want an ebook reader and the Kindle works for you)?

 

[CanonicalKoi]

• E-Ink not that great. Text was sharp but the background was greenish gray. Not paper like at all to us.
• Klunky size because of the clumsy keyboard at the bottom
• One trick pony. You can read a book. Or you can read a book. Or you can read a book.
• No backlight.
• Amazon books have some room for improvement. No page numbers and no contents or index. You can't tell where you are in the damned book.
• The OS. Navigation is sequential stepping through menus by pushing buttons. Really?
• The price! People are whining about a $499 iPad. The Kindle DX is 10 bucks less and has a single purpose.
• No flash
• No camera
• No multitasking

Weighing in on the nook with your list above:

1. Have to agree. It's a PITA to read in dim light. Why didn't they backlight the bloody thing instead of making me buy a third-party, aftermarket light?
2. Nice size--really, the nook's actually light and pretty comfy.
3. Yup.
4. Yup, again. See point 1.
5. All the books I've read on the nook do have a table of contents, an index (when the actual book had one) and gives both the page number you're on and the total number of pages. For example, I'm on page 145 of a 233 page book and it shows "145/233" in the bottom right corner.
6. Sucks, too. Why they didn't make the whole screen a touch screen instead of a tiny little screen at the bottom, I don't know. Navigation would be a lot easier--go to table of contents, touch chapter 1 and boom, you're there. Controls are clunky-feeling. Touch an icon and wait for a reaction. Typing on the tiny, slow-responding screen is another PITA. Each book you read *is* bookmarked where you left off, though. That's a nice feature. And if you turn it off, all you have to hit is, "currently reading" and it pops up where you left off. If it's sleeping and you wake it, it's right where you left it (naturally).
7. Price? Better than a Kindle. Could be better for what, as you point out, is a one-trick pony.
8., 9. and 10. Yup, yup and yup.

The only thing going for my nook is it'll be nice for traveling. For reading ebooks at home (and I still prefer dead-tree reading), it'll be the iPad. I mainly use it for books I'm semi-interested in, but not sure it's something I want to keep. I'd rather try and find a cheap electronic copy than pay full print price and find out I have a book I have to give away or find a home for.

 

[gwynne]

1. Have to agree. It's a PITA to read in dim light. Why didn't they backlight the bloody thing instead of making me buy a third-party, aftermarket light?

I assume there must be a technical reason that e-ink is not (or cannot be?) backlit.

My eBook reading started with reading on some of the bigger-screened Palm Pilots, which meant I could read in bed in the dark, which I really liked. When e-ink readers came around, I wasn't too interested in fighting with an attached booklight because I've tried them occasionally with 'real' books and all they do is annoy me. (And yes, I've tried a variety of them including LED.)

I ended up getting the Sony PRS-700 because it actually has internal lighting (it's not backlit, more side-lit). However, as far as I know this was the only model of e-ink reader that had this feature, and Sony stopped making them (and dropped the sidelighting in the model that superseded the PRS-700, which I think was the PRS-900).

Again, I'm not sure what the reasoning is for this, but built-in lighting is a must for me with an ebook reader. So far I'm happy with the PRS-700 and I'm not sure the iPad will replace it in my routine, but if I hadn't been able to snag this particular model I would probably not be using e-ink.

 

[MikhailT]

I assume there must be a technical reason that e-ink is not (or cannot be?) backlit.

My eBook reading started with reading on some of the bigger-screened Palm Pilots, which meant I could read in bed in the dark, which I really liked. When e-ink readers came around, I wasn't too interested in fighting with an attached booklight because I've tried them occasionally with 'real' books and all they do is annoy me. (And yes, I've tried a variety of them including LED.)

I ended up getting the Sony PRS-700 because it actually has internal lighting (it's not backlit, more side-lit). However, as far as I know this was the only model of e-ink reader that had this feature, and Sony stopped making them (and dropped the sidelighting in the model that superseded the PRS-700, which I think was the PRS-900).

Again, I'm not sure what the reasoning is for this, but built-in lighting is a must for me with an ebook reader. So far I'm happy with the PRS-700 and I'm not sure the iPad will replace it in my routine, but if I hadn't been able to snag this particular model I would probably not be using e-ink.

I believe the backlight is a technical limitation, not something that can be attached to the e-ink surface.

Scheme of the E Ink technology. Legend: 1 upper layer. 2 transparent electrode layer. 3 transparent micro-capsules. 4 positively charged white pigments. 5 negatively charged black pigments. 6 transparent oil. 7 electrode pixel layer. 8 bottom supporting layer. 9 light. 10 white. 11 black.

 

[4DThinker]

'Better' doesn't mean 'more'. The iPod was "better" at what it did than the competition even though it did less than other devices. I'm not saying the iPad is or is not better, because that depends entirely on what you're planning to do. But it is pretty clear that netbooks are pretty miserable at a lot of things, and at least some of those, the iPad will do much better.

My last statement was:

I didn't post this to claim the Archos 9 is better than an iPad. I used it's specs simply to demonstrate how different (yet more similar than a Kindle is) devices are being compared to the ipad.

 

[4DThinker]

You should change your screen name to 1D Thinker. But OK, lets also cover...

So what exactly are you going to do with this mediocre device and no content? Use it to multitask spreadsheets while browsing the web and listening to music? I don't think so. But ya got flash so it's OK.

My last statement was:

I didn't post this to claim the Archos 9 is better than an iPad. I used it's specs simply to demonstrate how different (yet more similar than a Kindle is) devices are being compared to the ipad.

Thanks for your lengthy summary of other people's opinions though. I know this crowd loves to read long posts regurgitating alternative product reviews.

 

[JBazz]

We've heard ad infinitum about all the failings of the iPad

• No Flash
• No Keyboard
• No PC OS
• No E-Ink
• No Camera
• No "Multitasking"
• No Cure For Cancer

So what about the competition (that actually exists)? I'll start. I bought my wife a Kindle DX back in October for her birthday. She kept it for two weeks and returned it for a refund. Why?

• E-Ink not that great. Text was sharp but the background was greenish gray. Not paper like at all to us.
• Klunky size because of the clumsy keyboard at the bottom
• One trick pony. You can read a book. Or you can read a book. Or you can read a book.
• No backlight.
• Amazon books have some room for improvement. No page numbers and no contents or index. You can't tell where you are in the damned book.
• The OS. Navigation is sequential stepping through menus by pushing buttons. Really?
• The price! People are whining about a $499 iPad. The Kindle DX is 10 bucks less and has a single purpose.
• No flash
• No camera
• No multitasking

Also, who the hell actually reads outside in the sun? I've tried it a few times at the beach or lounging beside our pool but I find it annoying even with a traditional book. Too much light makes it a PITB for me.

On the other hand, how many people will hop in bed with a book for an hour or so before shutting your eyes for the night? I do. My wife does. Our 12 year old does. Our 18 year old does. One thing that really disappointed my wife was the Kindle's lack of backlighting. She likes to read in bed but doesn't want the lights on. Well actually, she objects to the lights when I read in bed. With Kindle, you either need to have a bed lamp on or buy some kludgy clip-on book light. When she realized there was no backlighting she got a look on her face like a kid who got clothes for Christmas. It was funny. Oh well, that's my take on the competition.

We ordered the 64GB WiFi iPad and we think it looks like a bargain on paper (pun intended).

This is completely untrue. I am reading The Lunatic Cafe right now and I am at location 2324-28 which is 39% of the book.

I read just fine in my bed at night with a book light. And when I dont want to read with a light, I can turn if off. Can you turn off your backlit display and still read? Can you read in bright sunlight?

You are just too whiny.

 

[SchneiderMan]

The iPad will not have any good competition until Apple decides to make a better device.

 

[125037]

The iPad will not have any good competition until Apple decides to make a better device.

The device is perfect. The software could use a few updates for my WANTS but as far as a stable device that covers most people NEEDS, the iPads got it. And if people aren't happy with it, I am here to inform them that nobody is forcing them to purchase it and it is as simple as that.

 

[Spudracer]

This is completely untrue. I am reading The Lunatic Cafe right now and I am at location 2324-28 which is 39% of the book.

I read just fine in my bed at night with a book light. And when I dont want to read with a light, I can turn if off. Can you turn off your backlit display and still read? Can you read in bright sunlight?

You are just too whiny.

Nope, not untrue. The first two books we bought...

The Help - no page numbers and no table of contents and no index

Just After Sunset - no page numbers, appeared to be a table of contents but no page numbers used in the TOC either, and no index. Since this was a collection of short stories, ya think people may want to jump around to a particular story or skip forward one. Tough to do without TOC.

I like page numbers and a TOC to help navigate the book. Pretty basic stuff.

As I said, I don't like reading in bright sunlight. I doubt that many people do. It sucks. Talk about harsh on the eyes! If you're happy with a clip on book light and you want to read in full sunlight, enjoy your e-ink.

 

[flynz4]

I attended a seminar with the publisher of a large metropolitan newspaper on Thursday. The discussion was about the business issues the print industry faces with the move to digital content delivery. He was especially open and honest about the issues.

One of the many things he mentioned, revolved around advertising revenue. He stated he was not very excited about e-ink (and Kindle in particular) because it is really unsuitable for advertising. By contrast, he was really bullish on the iPad. I personally had never considered this aspect before.

While I do not enjoy lots of advertising drivel... if I was to switch my newpaper delivery from "throw it on the driveway"... to "push it into my iPad"... I really still want to be able to read the Fry's ad... and in fact, if I could not get that as part of the delivery... I probably would not switch.

/Jim

 

[sonicboom]

While I do not enjoy lots of advertising drivel... if I was to switch my newpaper delivery from "throw it on the driveway"... to "push it into my iPad"... I really still want to be able to read the Fry's ad... and in fact, if I could not get that as part of the delivery... I probably would not switch.

Yeah, and let's not forget those Bed Bath & Beyond coupons... which I'm pretty sure is the only reason why my wife subscribes to the Sunday paper. Deliver that with iPad news, and you make another segment of customers happy.

 

[matticus008]

My last statement was:

Yes, I know. But you posted the specs specifically to make the comparison, and went as far as to say:

My Archos cost essentially the same as the iPad though, and shows that we "should" have gotten more hardware for our iPad money if not more functionality.

You flat-out said that another product offered better value for the money because of higher specs, where all the reviews disagreed.

The Archos doesn't have higher specs, even on paper, except for its 60GB hard drive and USB port. The quality of its components was also specifically called out by CNet and other reviews. In other words, the idea that the Archos 9 offers "more" hardware for the money in any sense of the word is flatly untrue.

 

[Night Spring]

Nope, not untrue. The first two books we bought...

The Help - no page numbers and no table of contents and no index

Just After Sunset - no page numbers, appeared to be a table of contents but no page numbers used in the TOC either, and no index. Since this was a collection of short stories, ya think people may want to jump around to a particular story or skip forward one. Tough to do without TOC.

I like page numbers and a TOC to help navigate the book. Pretty basic stuff.

????? Kindle books don't have page numbers, but they all have location numbers that tell you where you are in the book. I do agree that a table of content should be included, but since there are no page numbers, no Kindle ToC would list page numbers. But all Kindle ToCs I've seen were hyperlinks -- tap a chapter title, and you jump to the beginning of that chapter.

 

[macchiato2009]

the ipad could run videos but i guess formats supported by quicktime/itunes only

no divx ?

 

[Spudracer]

the ipad could run videos but i guess formats supported by quicktime/itunes only

no divx ?

Yeah, laser disk is probably out too.

 

[4DThinker]

Yes, I know.

Good for you. Anything else about the thread topic to contribute, or are you just about contesting my posts?

 

[MikhailT]

I attended a seminar with the publisher of a large metropolitan newspaper on Thursday. The discussion was about the business issues the print industry faces with the move to digital content delivery. He was especially open and honest about the issues.

One of the many things he mentioned, revolved around advertising revenue. He stated he was not very excited about e-ink (and Kindle in particular) because it is really unsuitable for advertising. By contrast, he was really bullish on the iPad. I personally had never considered this aspect before.

While I do not enjoy lots of advertising drivel... if I was to switch my newpaper delivery from "throw it on the driveway"... to "push it into my iPad"... I really still want to be able to read the Fry's ad... and in fact, if I could not get that as part of the delivery... I probably would not switch.

/Jim

As long as there are two different models for newspapers and magazines, free with ads and paid without ads. Ads in ebooks are never going to work, it is totally unacceptable in my opinion.

Why is he complaining about e-ink for? Newspapers aren't dynamic either, they are black/white with ads scattered that never changes. That should fit e-ink display perfectly. If he wants dynamic ads, well the newspaper have to be dynamic as well with color photos and so on. E-ink will get faster and colorful, it just takes time.

I can't accept advertising in anything that I read. When I read, I'm in my own world, I get distracted easily by the colorful flashing ads all over. That's why I love Google Adsense, it makes sense and not annoying.

 

[matticus008]

Good for you. Anything else about the thread topic to contribute, or are you just about contesting my posts?

No, that's pretty much it.

Thanks for asking.

 

[sactownbwoy]

Nope, not untrue. The first two books we bought...

The Help - no page numbers and no table of contents and no index

Just After Sunset - no page numbers, appeared to be a table of contents but no page numbers used in the TOC either, and no index. Since this was a collection of short stories, ya think people may want to jump around to a particular story or skip forward one. Tough to do without TOC.

I like page numbers and a TOC to help navigate the book. Pretty basic stuff.

As I said, I don't like reading in bright sunlight. I doubt that many people do. It sucks. Talk about harsh on the eyes! If you're happy with a clip on book light and you want to read in full sunlight, enjoy your e-ink.

Wouldn't not having page numbers or a table of contents be the fault of the publisher. Last I checked Amazon doesn't publish books. The Kindle is a reader so if the publisher didn't include that stuff when converting to ebook format how is it the fault of the Kindle?

 

[jedolley]

Wouldn't not having page numbers or a table of contents be the fault of the publisher. Last I checked Amazon doesn't publish books. The Kindle is a reader so if the publisher didn't include that stuff when converting to ebook format how is it the fault of the Kindle?

I'm not sure who's responsibility it is, but page numbers just wouldn't work well on the kindle.

Since the user can control the font size, the content on each page differs by the size of the font. Also, there really isn't a standard size to books so larger books have more words per page than smaller books and that would not translate well on an e-reader. Amazon deals with this by assigning location numbers and telling you how many % through the book you are.

 

[CanonicalKoi]

This is completely untrue. I am reading The Lunatic Cafe right now and I am at location 2324-28 which is 39% of the book.

I read just fine in my bed at night with a book light. And when I dont want to read with a light, I can turn if off. Can you turn off your backlit display and still read? Can you read in bright sunlight?

You are just too whiny.

Sorry for dragging an iPad discussion further off-topic, but you may count me amongst the "whiny", though it's on behalf of the nook and not the Kindle. I can't read mine in the dark; you may count me very impressed if you can. I had hoped to have a device that I could read while traveling, in a hotel room not provided with bedside reading lights. Now (due to my own lack of due diligence, I'll grant you), I have a device where I have to mail-order for a booklight made for my nook (since none of my "normal" booklights will work with it and the chances of my small-town B&N ever having any accessories in store is nil), fiddle around with remembering batteries for the light and such.

And in answer to your query, "Can you read in bright sunlight?", why, yes, yes I can. I use my MBP pretty exclusively in our living room equipped with a very large picture window facing due south. Lots (lots!) of direct sunlight in the room and often on my (back-lit) screen and I've had no problems with reading it at all.

 

[4DThinker]

I'm curious. Who can read a real book in the dark with no booklight or other source of light? As for the ipad, reading one in bed at night the backlight of the screen will be just as annoying as a booklight would be to your partner.

 

[Spudracer]

I'm curious. Who can read a real book in the dark with no booklight or other source of light? As for the ipad, reading one in bed at night the backlight of the screen will be just as annoying as a booklight would be to your partner.

My wife objects to overhead lights or a bedside lamp. She doesn't mind a book light. I use a Light Wedge for paper books and it's designed to illuminate the page without leaking a lot of light where it's not wanted. Highly recommended. I use the light wedge on planes at night too and I've had several people show an interest in it. But for the Kindle DX they only make those clip on lights. They're a PITB. With a backlit screen there is no stupid clip on light with separate batteries to maintain and you can dim a backlit screen to any level that's comfortable.