I don't mind settling for an older or crippled technology if it means I get to pay less.
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Olympus sells imaging business
- Thread starter Darmok N Jalad
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I don't mind settling for an older or crippled technology if it means I get to pay less.
That's exactly why I just got the Sony a7III.I don't mind settling for an older or crippled technology if it means I get to pay less.
Really, I’m not sure why full frame should be considered the standard. Yes, it’s closest to the old 35mm film, but at this point that’s a pretty antiquated baseline. With smartphones, no one really even thinks about the “35mm equivalent“ of those tiny, fixed-aperture lenses, and smartphones are likely how most anyone today is getting their start into the world of photography. I’m old enough to remember film, but I never had a 35mm camera. My parents had one, but it was so fiddly that photography never even interested me. So, if larger sensors are the most important component of ILC photography, than why not say that MF is the future? It seems multiple sensor sizes have long been how photography is done, where cost and size are major considerations. It sounds like M43 is gaining adoption in China, with 2-3 national companies making cameras. I think China has enough customer base to keep the format alive, though who knows if that will export.
Since I also frequent a M43 forum, these discussions have been running for some time. The whole topic reminds me a bit of TVs, where there is a push to move the standards forward, like to 4K and now 8K, 60Hz to 120Hz. For most households, 8K is useless due to size/viewing distances, and 4K is even more than what most people need (it was HDR that made 4K look so much better). The jump from 480P to 720/1080P was clearly noticeable, but the returns are diminishing quickly. With modern cameras, we’ve long since made the jump into sufficiency, to the point that in double-blind comparisons, you’d be hard-pressed to pick out the sensor format most of the time when the photographer is the same. Once you’re at the point of pixel-peeping, you’re really at the fringes of the technology.
In other news, I actually just picked up a used E-M5 mk III, in like-new condition for a great deal. When paired with a 25mm 1.7 prime, it weighs 1.2lbs. THAT is what M43 is all about. It’s almost like everyone wants to see us land on one sensor size. A better ambition, IMO, would be to hope for a shared lens mount for a given sensor size.
Since I also frequent a M43 forum, these discussions have been running for some time. The whole topic reminds me a bit of TVs, where there is a push to move the standards forward, like to 4K and now 8K, 60Hz to 120Hz. For most households, 8K is useless due to size/viewing distances, and 4K is even more than what most people need (it was HDR that made 4K look so much better). The jump from 480P to 720/1080P was clearly noticeable, but the returns are diminishing quickly. With modern cameras, we’ve long since made the jump into sufficiency, to the point that in double-blind comparisons, you’d be hard-pressed to pick out the sensor format most of the time when the photographer is the same. Once you’re at the point of pixel-peeping, you’re really at the fringes of the technology.
In other news, I actually just picked up a used E-M5 mk III, in like-new condition for a great deal. When paired with a 25mm 1.7 prime, it weighs 1.2lbs. THAT is what M43 is all about. It’s almost like everyone wants to see us land on one sensor size. A better ambition, IMO, would be to hope for a shared lens mount for a given sensor size.
Congratulations! Enjoy it, it's a very capable camera body to rock out in the field!
Well, full frame or 35mm was the standard before we went into the digital era. Who said it wasn't? All one has to do have an adapter for every single mount and your full frame mirrorless camera will be able to use that film lens relatively uncropped. You need a very expensive adapter for m43 to get the full frame look or a very expensive prime. You might have a lot of money to afford an Olympus f/1.2 lens or the Nocticron, but for 1/4-1/2 of the price used, you can get an adapter PLUS a 85mm f/1.8 Canon or Nikon lens with AF support! Same if you want some ultra-wide end support for full frame. There are simply so many full frame film lenses, so many many choices, more so and cheaper than you can get with m43. Yeap, weight and size is a difference, but we are not talking about hauling a big huge boat anchor either. For many younger photographers, full frame is the main distinguisher against their iPhones because of the lens support. They believe each lens gives that unique look, the color rendition and bokeh which are naturally done on a lens, but can look fake via the iPhone. That's why you never see a big adoption on MF digital just because, the film version of MF do not have as much in terms autofocus MF lenses as they do with 35mm film lenses. And they are much more expensive than the 35mm film lenses and not as plentiful. I mean, every camera swap meet I went to all have vendors selling a complete line of used full frame lenses, be it digital and 35mm film outweighing Olympus and Fuji lenses. That is the standard where you can find lenses everywhere. A digital mirrorless or a DSLR camera is just a black box without a lens.
Anyhow, enjoy your fantastic camera. It is a camera I was eyeing myself to upgrade from my old E-P5, but the plastic base tripod plate worried me as it cracked very easily under stress. Hopefully there is a fix for it.
Anyhow, enjoy your fantastic camera. It is a camera I was eyeing myself to upgrade from my old E-P5, but the plastic base tripod plate worried me as it cracked very easily under stress. Hopefully there is a fix for it.
That E-500 two lens kit was my first dSLR back in the day - got it on a "closeout"... Found out why it was on "closeout", Olympus discontinued supporting that mount 4 months later...
I got rid it anyways - way, way, too much noise...
how do you deal with all that noise on the small 4/3 CCD Sensor?
I use the E-500 with the standard 14-45mm kit lens and a Chinese shoe mounted flash gun for the crowd shots at music venues.That E-500 two lens kit was my first dSLR back in the day - got it on a "closeout"... Found out why it was on "closeout", Olympus discontinued supporting that mount 4 months later...
I got rid it anyways - way, way, too much noise...
how do you deal with all that noise on the small 4/3 CCD Sensor?
These are usually taken in dark, dingy corners of the venues, hence the need for a powerful flash and a smaller camera.
I haven’t had much of a noise issue to be fair. I have the lens wide open at f3.5, a fairly slow shutter speed and around 4-600 on the iso, the flash freezes my subject and lights them properly, the slow shutter gives plenty of the stage lighting in the background.
Once I’m back home I’ll upload a few of my pics to show just what a M4/3 is capable of in low light, even the old E-500 can be great in the right hands.
Yeah, I’ve heard of this, but I so rarely use a tripod that it wasn’t much of a concern for me. Out of the 5000+ photos I’ve taken in the last year, I bet I used a tripod for 10 of them, and that’s just playing around.
It does seem like a strange design choice, though it’s hard to know just how common that issue really is. The cases where it did happen sure seemed to spread from one side of the photography world to the other, though. If I did use a tripod, my heavy lens has a foot, so it would be the place I’d mount the setup. For the lighter lenses, this shouldn’t really be much of a concern. When I look down into the thread of the EM5.3, it almost looks like there is a second level of threading down at the base, and maybe that ends up in the subframe? If that were so, I could see how if your tripod thread wasn’t deep enough, then there wasn’t enough bite to attach to the subframe. Just a theory, I’m not about to take this thing apart to find out!
Edit: Also, the primes don’t have to be expensive. The 25mm 1.7 is $149 new. Yeah, there are bigger and more expensive ones, but it’s not all entirely necessary. I’ve even been impressed with the sharpness of the 9mm BCL, and that lens is under $100 new. I’ve come to the realization that if you invest in big heavy M43 lenses, that you might as well consider FF, as the advantages of M43 have diminished.
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The E-500? You mean the camera that was released in 2005? The announcement about stopping support for the 4/3 lens mount (or at least, new lens releases) was made in 2017, a full 12 years after the E-500's release! If you bought the camera on closeout, I'm fairly certain it had less to do with the end of the 4/3 mount and more to do with the fact that it was practically vintage by the time you were making your purchase. It was already somewhere around 3-4 generations old.That E-500 two lens kit was my first dSLR back in the day - got it on a "closeout"... Found out why it was on "closeout", Olympus discontinued supporting that mount 4 months later...
I got rid it anyways - way, way, too much noise...
how do you deal with all that noise on the small 4/3 CCD Sensor?
Sensor developments have come a very long way since then - "small 4/3 sensor" has nothing to do with it, modern µ4/3 cameras (which use that same "small 4/3 sensor") outperform "full frame" cameras from back in 2005, too.
Thanks for the timeline - was a long, long time ago. Things changed drastically for 4/3 system when Olympus switched to the 16Mp Sony Sensors...Panasonic made some leaps and bounds as well.
I'm trying to switch to mirrorless and the used Olympus and Panasonic's I got are tons, tons better when it comes to noise.
Yeah, it’s really not that bad. I’ve found that by shooting JPG, the camera cleans up noise pretty well at higher-ISO. You will lose some sharpness, but it’s actually not too bad. I’ve taken many shots at 3200 or better and the sharpness is still pretty good. My cicada series in last month’s POTD thread was all ISO 3200:
bye, bye, MFT...
FF the size of MFT Cameras:
camerasize.com
www.sonyalpharumors.com
FF the size of MFT Cameras:
Compare camera dimensions side by side
camerasize.com
CONFIRMED: The next new Full Frame E-mount compact camera will be named “Sony A7c” | sonyalpharumors
Two solid source confirmed Sony will soon announce a super compact FF E-mount camera and that it will be named "Sony A7c". The "c" obviously standing for "compact". This camera will be the first and entry level camera of the new "c" line that will run on parallel to the current A7-A9 cameras. A...
www.sonyalpharumors.com
I dunno. I personally wouldn't want a body that small, and a lot of users really prefer the APSC format for the seemingly longer focal length. I mean just the other day someone here said that full frame is just a fad (we know it actually isn't).
I guess vloggers and the like might really like a super small body with full frame, but for me, there has to be *some* body weight to counteract the weight of the lenses.
The impression I have gotten from the various rumors about this new Sony product is that there will also be small, lightweight lenses to accompany this small, lightweight body. One wouldn't necessarily buy one of these and then attempt to hang it from a 200-600mm lens. LOL! It should be interesting to see what happens when this is actually unveiled and released; is Sony going to once again push aside the competition by jumping into new territory, or will this particular strategy falter? The pop-up EVF is something with which I'm familiar, as that is what is on the Sony RX100 series of cameras, and it is useful on those small, compact fixed-zoom-lens bodies, but I am curious to see how effective this could be on a full-frame body.
Yes, many photographers, as I've mentioned before, have both a full-frame body and an APS-C body in order to take best advantage of whatever situations they are shooting in. Been there, done that!
Yes, many photographers, as I've mentioned before, have both a full-frame body and an APS-C body in order to take best advantage of whatever situations they are shooting in. Been there, done that!
bye, bye, MFT...
FF the size of MFT Cameras:
Compare camera dimensions side by side
CONFIRMED: The next new Full Frame E-mount compact camera will be named “Sony A7c” | sonyalpharumors
Two solid source confirmed Sony will soon announce a super compact FF E-mount camera and that it will be named "Sony A7c". The "c" obviously standing for "compact". This camera will be the first and entry level camera of the new "c" line that will run on parallel to the current A7-A9 cameras. A...
For $2000, you can buy an EM10 and every lens you’d ever need to be perfectly happy with your amateur photography craft. This just emphasizes the point I was making in the other thread—when discussing the future of photography, it all too often starts and ends with sensor size. The EM10 is the size it is because anything smaller would be ergonomically terrible. The size of a camera body has to factor in user comfort. Now let’s see this compact lens lineup that is supposedly coming and what those will cost, and then we can make a conclusion.
"I'll bet Canon and Nikon aren't too happy about this!"
Canon has been selling the EOS RP for a while now, full-frame in a very compact body, for under $1,000.
It has an electronic viewfinder mounted in the "the traditional position", but I could see them modifying this design to just eliminate the viewfinder for the LCD display on the back.
If users want a "viewfinder", Canon might offer one like they do with the EOS M6ii ...
Canon has been selling the EOS RP for a while now, full-frame in a very compact body, for under $1,000.
It has an electronic viewfinder mounted in the "the traditional position", but I could see them modifying this design to just eliminate the viewfinder for the LCD display on the back.
If users want a "viewfinder", Canon might offer one like they do with the EOS M6ii ...
If sensor size were the be all and end all of camera criteria we wouldn't see stats like these in Japan: https://www.dpreview.com/news/53748...-sales-in-japan-were-down-75-compared-to-2019. I rather doubt those consumers really care much about sensor size. Especially since video is important to many, and 4k is 4k for most. And since the rumored new Sony is the price of an A7iii, $2000.
It's the really small sensors, those in the phones, that still rule. Mirrorless sales dropped, and Sony merged cameras with it's not exactly high performing smartphone group. I don't exactly see the remodeled Sony as turning any tides. Especially if they end up with more $2000 cameras and high end lenses and dump the cheaper A line and lenses. Leaves a lot of room in the A6400 range of about $900-1000USD for Panny, Oly, and others to hit.
It's the really small sensors, those in the phones, that still rule. Mirrorless sales dropped, and Sony merged cameras with it's not exactly high performing smartphone group. I don't exactly see the remodeled Sony as turning any tides. Especially if they end up with more $2000 cameras and high end lenses and dump the cheaper A line and lenses. Leaves a lot of room in the A6400 range of about $900-1000USD for Panny, Oly, and others to hit.
The point and shoot market is dead. That was taken over by cell phones. Sony and Canon are going after the content creator market.
I agree, I too like a bit of heft to my camera bodies, so they are comfy to hold with weighty lenses attached. With my a7III I need to use a battery grip to bring it up to a nice physical size to hold and I don't have particularly ginormous hands either! When using my a6500, it is always in a cage and with handles and accessories, so becomes something larger than it is. For the few times I grab it to make use of the crop factor in the garden it is that little bit too small for me and it feels like I am using the tiny compact RX100. The a6500 with the Sigma 16mm f/1.4 attached is stupidly nose heavy to use!
I'm hoping that Sony take a leaf out of Venus/Laowa's books with regards to small lenses. My M43 7.5 and 4mm lenses are stunning pieces of glass for their small size.
The new FF Panasonic S5 is smaller than their MFT G9...
www.l-rumors.com
Surprise: New Panasonic S5 is smaller than the G9 - L mount system camera rumors and news
Apotelyt.com already posted a size comparison between the G9 and the soon to be announced S5 L-mount camera. And Cameradecision.com posted this S1 vs S5 size comparison:
www.l-rumors.com
Again, you are using false equivalence. The G9 is not intended to be a small or light camera, or the smallest M43 camera there is—rather, it is semi-pro and gripped, loaded with buttons and dials, has a joystick, dual card slots, a top-plate LCD, is built like a tank, has splash/dust resistance, and is incredibly comfortable to hold in-hand. Again, it is sized this way for user comfort and convenience, and for durability. If you want the smallest M43 body from Panasonic, you get the GX9 where size is no contest.The new FF Panasonic S5 is smaller than their MFT G9...
Surprise: New Panasonic S5 is smaller than the G9 - L mount system camera rumors and news
Apotelyt.com already posted a size comparison between the G9 and the soon to be announced S5 L-mount camera. And Cameradecision.com posted this S1 vs S5 size comparison:
If you must compare Panasonic models across sensors, the DC-S1 has the most in common with the G9’s build, and, surprise, the S1 is considerably bigger and heavier.
Panasonic G9 vs Panasonic S1 Comparison Review
Detailed comparison of the Panasonic G9 and the Panasonic S1. Click through to find out about their relative size and key specifications.
www.apotelyt.com
They won’t talk specifics (nothing new for a public company), but they’ve had the FF line on the market for over a year now. Since then, they did introduce an new M43 camera earlier this year (G100) that was aimed at Vloggers, and they had a pretty big firmware update to the G9 late last year.
The S5 is pretty much double the price of the G9, so again, it’s hard to make such an equivalent comparison to say one is replacing the other. The FF model is a much bigger investment. Looks like a pretty nice camera body though.