I suppose I am over stating that I am not bragging or claiming to be an expert in my case.....
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Opinion on Mirrorless
- Thread starter rayjay86
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I suppose I am over stating that I am not bragging or claiming to be an expert in my case.....
Hear! Hear! I've seen you put out some beautiful stuff that's made me envious!
Hear! Hear! I've seen you put out some beautiful stuff that's made me envious!
Sorry guys....
I thought you just loved me for my dad jokes...
They're just a bonus!Sorry guys....
I thought you just loved me for my dad jokes...
Your photos are gorgeous! More importantly, I loved the shots with the 28mm FE f/2! They were stunning, especially those windmill shots
I’ve been looking at the Rokinon wide angles. Manual doesn’t bother me much, I’d looked into getting those for the Olympus anyways (Laowa 7.5mm is a manual, and some Rokinon options too).
Your Flickr album is not making the choice easy. My wife made a good point, if it’s this agonizing I may benefit from just making the switch. If I hate it after a while, Sony has decent resale and I get back in bed with Olympus
Also for the person who suggested weather proofing, I’m shooting on an EM10, so that’s never been an issue, and the EM1 is waaaaaay out of budget, even on a sale day, so that’s not an option.
I went out and shot a sunset today because all this camera talk was making me antsy. Not my best but Lightroom has totally lost the plot on my Mac!
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Sorry, I hoped it would help...
You are very kind.
The Sony 28mm is amazing glass for that price BTW. The 55mm Zeiss 1.8 is astonishingly good. It seems expensive for a 50mm until you shoot an image with it and BOOM! tack sharp.
Your wife makes a good point. Resale is always there so try it and see. You won't regret it at all, don't get my posts wrong, the A7 is an amazing camera system. I am just a lens snob now and I am half Scottish so paying that much cash out pretty much physically hurts
As you only have two lenses for the Olympus, I think now is a reasonable time to try a switch. If you were four or five lenses in then I wouldnt recommend it but as you are light on glass (glass lasts a lot longer than bodies) then yes try it.
You arent trying to decide between buying duff systems put it that way... and that is why the choice is so hard. There isnt really a wrong answer...
Anyway, get posting some images so we can help you more!
This is one of the few gear threads that I have enjoyed reading through. Several very good points.
@kenoh I loved your initial post though have one major quibble (which was brought up in subsequent comments): you have produced numerous images that I would be quite happy to hang on my wall (assuming I had taken them).
Successful images depend on: (1) subject, (2) composition, (3) light, (4) choice of exposure, (5) timing, (6) technique, (7) random filler comment to extend the list, (8) gear. There are times where gear moves higher on the list (some subjects can only be captured with specific gear). In fact there are whole types/subgroups of photography that are very gear-dependent. But it often isn't the most important factor. Knowing how to use the gear you have is an entirely different matter and is vastly important....
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the thread thus far is intended output for your images. What are you planning on doing with your images and how do you intend to display/share them? It can be wonderful to view an image at 100% in LR and have the subject sharp (like *really* sharp*). But is that going to translate to your intended output? Likely won't be evident in email size pics, web pics (like here on MR), or even small prints (say 8x10 or smaller to set an arbitrary cutoff). Printing big it certainly can matter, but are you going to be doing that?
The other time that larger files and sharp lenses matter relates to how often you need to crop your images and how severe the crops are. In that case starting with a larger file and a sharper image will result in a meaningful improvement in the quality of the final image, regardless of what you do with it.
Lots of good options out there regarding bodies and lenses. Needs and budgets differ.
I would throw out a plug for a body with a tilt-able rear view screen. That one little gadget has proven to be transformative for me in many situations. It opens up composition choices that are really not there with any camera that lacks this feature. Even if shooting on a tripod and not hand-held it is an awesome feature.
@kenoh I loved your initial post though have one major quibble (which was brought up in subsequent comments): you have produced numerous images that I would be quite happy to hang on my wall (assuming I had taken them
).Successful images depend on: (1) subject, (2) composition, (3) light, (4) choice of exposure, (5) timing, (6) technique, (7) random filler comment to extend the list, (8) gear. There are times where gear moves higher on the list (some subjects can only be captured with specific gear). In fact there are whole types/subgroups of photography that are very gear-dependent. But it often isn't the most important factor. Knowing how to use the gear you have is an entirely different matter and is vastly important....
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the thread thus far is intended output for your images. What are you planning on doing with your images and how do you intend to display/share them? It can be wonderful to view an image at 100% in LR and have the subject sharp (like *really* sharp*). But is that going to translate to your intended output? Likely won't be evident in email size pics, web pics (like here on MR), or even small prints (say 8x10 or smaller to set an arbitrary cutoff). Printing big it certainly can matter, but are you going to be doing that?
The other time that larger files and sharp lenses matter relates to how often you need to crop your images and how severe the crops are. In that case starting with a larger file and a sharper image will result in a meaningful improvement in the quality of the final image, regardless of what you do with it.
Lots of good options out there regarding bodies and lenses. Needs and budgets differ.
I would throw out a plug for a body with a tilt-able rear view screen. That one little gadget has proven to be transformative for me in many situations. It opens up composition choices that are really not there with any camera that lacks this feature. Even if shooting on a tripod and not hand-held it is an awesome feature.
So true. I find my knees stay a lot cleaner with a tilt-able screen!This is one of the few gear threads that I have enjoyed reading through. Several very good points.
@kenoh I loved your initial post though have one major quibble (which was brought up in subsequent comments): you have produced numerous images that I would be quite happy to hang on my wall (assuming I had taken them
Successful images depend on: (1) subject, (2) composition, (3) light, (4) choice of exposure, (5) timing, (6) technique, (7) random filler comment to extend the list, (8) gear. There are times where gear moves higher on the list (some subjects can only be captured with specific gear). In fact there are whole types/subgroups of photography that are very gear-dependent. But it often isn't the most important factor. Knowing how to use the gear you have is an entirely different matter and is vastly important....
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the thread thus far is intended output for your images. What are you planning on doing with your images and how do you intend to display/share them? It can be wonderful to view an image at 100% in LR and have the subject sharp (like *really* sharp*). But is that going to translate to your intended output? Likely won't be evident in email size pics, web pics (like here on MR), or even small prints (say 8x10 or smaller to set an arbitrary cutoff). Printing big it certainly can matter, but are you going to be doing that?
The other time that larger files and sharp lenses matter relates to how often you need to crop your images and how severe the crops are. In that case starting with a larger file and a sharper image will result in a meaningful improvement in the quality of the final image, regardless of what you do with it.
Lots of good options out there regarding bodies and lenses. Needs and budgets differ.
I would throw out a plug for a body with a tilt-able rear view screen. That one little gadget has proven to be transformative for me in many situations. It opens up composition choices that are really not there with any camera that lacks this feature. Even if shooting on a tripod and not hand-held it is an awesome feature.
Sorry, I hoped it would help...
You are very kind.
The Sony 28mm is amazing glass for that price BTW. The 55mm Zeiss 1.8 is astonishingly good. It seems expensive for a 50mm until you shoot an image with it and BOOM! tack sharp.
Your wife makes a good point. Resale is always there so try it and see. You won't regret it at all, don't get my posts wrong, the A7 is an amazing camera system. I am just a lens snob now and I am half Scottish so paying that much cash out pretty much physically hurts
As you only have two lenses for the Olympus, I think now is a reasonable time to try a switch. If you were four or five lenses in then I wouldnt recommend it but as you are light on glass (glass lasts a lot longer than bodies) then yes try it.
You arent trying to decide between buying duff systems put it that way... and that is why the choice is so hard. There isnt really a wrong answer...
Anyway, get posting some images so we can help you more!
All seems like a moot point now. Turns out the person I was dealing with to buy my kit was some lowlife scumbag in China. Sent me a fake PayPal thing and everything, I started cluing in yesterday when his English was surprisingly poor and demanding for an oceanographer from Australia.
Anyways, its kind of good, its made my decision for me. Stay with Olympus and upgrade glass. I may upgrade my EM10 in the future but for the moment I'll probably get some fast wide angle glass for the Olympus.
Unless someone else comes out and genuinely wants to buy my system, in which case once again I'm back to indecision!!!
Everyone on this thread has been incredibly helpful! I still find it was pretty valuable, not only for me, but for anyone who comes along in future with similar questions about changing equipment or systems, etc.
Hell, I may even come back to this in 3-4 years when I’ve forgotten what everyone said and want to buy another camera!
Also @kenoh I posted two pictures of a sunset I took yesterday above
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I'm headed to your beach this morning for a spot of photography amongst a few other places as a whole days shooting with a friend!
Good luck with your choice, I'd hate to be in your shoes! My OCD and pedantic nature make decisions a nightmare at the best of times...
Update------------
Just read about the Chinese scammer! Bugga! But, it does help make your decision at this point in time. There is a Sub-Forum here for gear of all manner, but you need a minimum post count of some sort to put anything up in there. Not sure if that would help you any. There's also a facebook group here in Adelaide for selling camera gear which seems to have a good turnover of stuff that you could try. https://www.facebook.com/groups/283837588445001/
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Bah! If you come home and your knees arent dirty you havent been trying hard enough (no smut now ya hear!)
If I come home with dirty clothes Mrs AFB isn't happy! I don't want her to withdraw photography purchase privileges like Mrs Kenoh!
Found them. Phone playing games with me. They are lovely. Bright colours. Tad dark but that could be my screen.
I am glad you spotted the chinese chancer before you shipped the camera! That could have gone badly wrong.
I think your glass route is a good route then aim for a e-m10 mkiii or e-m5iii if it is out by then...
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This is one of the few gear threads that I have enjoyed reading through. Several very good points.
@kenoh I loved your initial post though have one major quibble (which was brought up in subsequent comments): you have produced numerous images that I would be quite happy to hang on my wall (assuming I had taken them
Successful images depend on: (1) subject, (2) composition, (3) light, (4) choice of exposure, (5) timing, (6) technique, (7) random filler comment to extend the list, (8) gear. There are times where gear moves higher on the list (some subjects can only be captured with specific gear). In fact there are whole types/subgroups of photography that are very gear-dependent. But it often isn't the most important factor. Knowing how to use the gear you have is an entirely different matter and is vastly important....
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the thread thus far is intended output for your images. What are you planning on doing with your images and how do you intend to display/share them? It can be wonderful to view an image at 100% in LR and have the subject sharp (like *really* sharp*). But is that going to translate to your intended output? Likely won't be evident in email size pics, web pics (like here on MR), or even small prints (say 8x10 or smaller to set an arbitrary cutoff). Printing big it certainly can matter, but are you going to be doing that?
The other time that larger files and sharp lenses matter relates to how often you need to crop your images and how severe the crops are. In that case starting with a larger file and a sharper image will result in a meaningful improvement in the quality of the final image, regardless of what you do with it.
Lots of good options out there regarding bodies and lenses. Needs and budgets differ.
I would throw out a plug for a body with a tilt-able rear view screen. That one little gadget has proven to be transformative for me in many situations. It opens up composition choices that are really not there with any camera that lacks this feature. Even if shooting on a tripod and not hand-held it is an awesome feature.
Mea Culpa... just my lack of self confidence rearing its head is all
If you want something small and portable, I don’t think the Sony A7II is a good fit. Once you attach good glass (especially faster zooms), the Sony is about as heavy and as large as a traditional dslr. Plus, when playing with them in the store, I found them much more awkward to hold if you put a heavy lens on it.
Portability trumps differences any in IQ. Plus, if you go hiking, you’ll likely take photos in day light, and there you will definitely not see any differences in IQ. To give you an idea where I am coming from, I have a Nikon D7000 with a few lenses and a Fuji X100s. When I go on trips, I almost exclusively take the Fuji with me. Only if I go with my wife and I know she wants to take photos or I have a need for a particular focal length do I take the dslr with me. As far as mirrorless cameras go, I would stick to your Olympus and get a new, nice lens or if you want to switch, have a look at Fuji. But I’d probably stick to Olympus if I were you.
Portability trumps differences any in IQ. Plus, if you go hiking, you’ll likely take photos in day light, and there you will definitely not see any differences in IQ. To give you an idea where I am coming from, I have a Nikon D7000 with a few lenses and a Fuji X100s. When I go on trips, I almost exclusively take the Fuji with me. Only if I go with my wife and I know she wants to take photos or I have a need for a particular focal length do I take the dslr with me. As far as mirrorless cameras go, I would stick to your Olympus and get a new, nice lens or if you want to switch, have a look at Fuji. But I’d probably stick to Olympus if I were you.
Yeah I think the olympus is what I’m likely to stick with
I do like some of the new features on the em5ii and the em1 is just never going to be in my budget. I’ll have to have a long think about what I do about a new body as I think the IBIS would be good when I’m out shooting urban stuff as I often shoot later in the day (darker)
I’m deciding between the 7-14 and the laowa at the moment. One is in the Christmas present budget and one is waaaay out of it (not hard to guess which is which)!
I've been a long-time Olympus shooter, starting with their early-line 4/3 cameras and then deciding to keep on with µ4/3 instead of changing to another system. I think I have three µ4/3 lenses and six or seven 4/3 lenses (slowly getting rid of some of them)... so changing systems would take some doing. Yet every few years (or maybe it's after a certain number of photos, or a certain number of photo threads), I find myself pining for "full frame." Sony, Nikon - doesn't matter, I just get that thought that everything much be so much better (aside from birding and macro) if I were using a camera with the larger sensor.
I then find some way to convince myself that it's not the case. Usually it's finding some not-so-great photos taken with "full frame" that still show things like ISO noise or some other technical flaws, and there are also plenty of examples of excellent photos taken with 4/3 (µ4/3). And so I stay. But the only way to get over that insecurity will be to buy a "full frame" camera and find out for myself what I am or am not missing.
I don't know that a great time to do it is right before a big trip. After all, you know and are comfortable with your camera right now; switching to a brand new system and not having much time to learn it might result in sub-optimal photos from the trip. But if you're going to make the change then doing it now, when you're still relatively nimble (not many lenses to sell if you're changing) is probably ideal.
They're nice photos, and a very nice setting. Did you try HDR bracketing? A "full frame" camera might offer more dynamic range and allow you to sufficiently process off of a single shot, but bracketing multiple exposures and working with that can overcome any inherent lower dynamic range in the 4/3 sensor, and also opens up other creative processing capabilities.
Let me emphasize that glass >> body in terms of importance. Good lenses will work for years and years (decades even). They will have a much larger impact on IQ than you think — if you get the right ones.
And good lenses are among the few things we buy that can actually appreciate.
Even if they don't appreciate, the good ones retain their value very, very well — unlike bodies.
Good point. A digital body is not like a mechanical camera of old. You arent going to be finding someone in 2050 using a Sony A7Rii still but you may find someone still using a Leica M6 - hopefully it will be me!
From a "designed in" lifespan perspective, digital bodies are becoming more like phones. Sony is on a yearly release cycle. Every year a new shiny thing comes out and the value of last years takes a tumble. Lenses however are not replaced that often.
Oh! Firmware! Sony hardly ever updates firmware. Others like Fuji do updates adding and improving features. As someone who works in software I can take that either way... "Right first time Sony?" Or still trying Fuji... Lol... But Fuji and Olympus seem to maintain their gear for longer and are on longer release cycles so values are maintained.
OP:
Everyone is on their own journey. I had this same dilemma couple years ago. Do I go full frame or stay cropped. Luckily I could stick my toe in the water. My favourite style of image at the time was shallow depth of field which full frame is great for so I convinced myself it was the right thing. Everyone told me it wasnt about the camera but it was something I had to learn for myself... You know like when you take your kids out to dinner and the waiter says "don't touch the plates they are really hot.". First thing Kenoh Jnr does is touch the plate... waaaah! Tears... point is despite the advice they need to experience it themselves or it just doesnt stick as advice to trust.
So either way, whatever you decide, is the right choice for you and we will all be around to help out whatever your decision...
The oldest lens I use is a 80-200 mm f/2.8D Nikkor: heavy as you-know-what, but I just love the images that come out of it. Since the newer ones aren't significantly lighter, I see zero reason to upgrade. This lens was made from 1993 till 1997, so it is at least 20 years old. Just touching it and feeling the mechanical precision with which it was put together …Good point. A digital body is not like a mechanical camera of old. You arent going to be finding someone in 2050 using a Sony A7Rii still but you may find someone still using a Leica M6 - hopefully it will be me!
Yes, although I would have to say that no camera manufacturer seems to have understood that they should build a camera software platform and not update models piecemeal. Or artificially limit the capabilities of older models. But that is another story for another thread
You’re a legend! This thread worried me initially because I thought I’d get criticized etc
Even some of the nice words about my photos. I rarely post on public forums because I’m self conscious about my photos (especially seeing other peoples’ Flickr accounts)
I’ll be sticking with Olympus for the time being. Leaning towards the 7-14mm and considering changing to a weather sealed body like the em5ii
No need to be self conscious. Best way to learn is to post stuff. We are a pretty friendly bunch on here.
We are all in a different place on our journey. Some have been doing it a lifetime, others (like me) less so.
As long as you are enjoying what you do, that's the main thing.
There is no value in being negative to someones images and we know that. We are a friendly bunch and we would only criticise for the benefit to you. Post more. We were all there before. We are just a little further ahead in our journeys. Our Flickrs are just where we are. It is no reason to be intimidated.
Hang around for a while... feel free to post for praise or request a shredding...
This is a safe place with minimal number of photographic pedants... so get posting and we can get you to the point where you NEED that upgrade to kit to progress...
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Spot on... even for a Nikon shooter....
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Also, this is where the filters come in... get a 0.6 graduated nd on these images and you can balance the exposure of the sky and the land to get more detail across the whole frame.
What do you do for post processing? do you go purist straight out of camera? or do you shoot raw and adjust them later in something like Lightroom?