Opinion on Mirrorless

[Mark0]

For what it's worth, I binned Canon full frame and moved to Fuji X, which is APS-C. The difference isn't that noticeable in real-life terms - unless you like looking at brick walls, colour charts, exposure targets and shadows at 10000% and other stuff like that. See printed on an A3? I bet nobody could tell between an APS-C and a FF. I just shot the night sky at f2, ISO 1600 last night, The naysayers would claim that only FF is good for night work and scientifically, they probably are right. However, staring at this lovely A3 I've just printed, I beg to differ. Anyway, that's another debate.

I opted for APS-C due to the size savings, price savings. I did consider Olympus, but I preferred the Fuji styling and controls. Works for me, maybe not for others.

Also, I echo the notion on filters - but only buy expensive if you are really going to use them. I rely on them for my photography and personally use Lee ND Grads, Formatt Hitech solid NDs and polariser.

Most importantly, ENJOY your photography. It is one of the most fulfilling things you can do.

 

[kenoh]

For what it's worth, I binned Canon full frame and moved to Fuji X, which is APS-C. The difference isn't that noticeable in real-life terms - unless you like looking at brick walls, colour charts, exposure targets and shadows at 10000% and other stuff like that. See printed on an A3? I bet nobody could tell between an APS-C and a FF. I just shot the night sky at f2, ISO 1600 last night, The naysayers would claim that only FF is good for night work and scientifically, they probably are right. However, staring at this lovely A3 I've just printed, I beg to differ. Anyway, that's another debate.

I opted for APS-C due to the size savings, price savings. I did consider Olympus, but I preferred the Fuji styling and controls. Works for me, maybe not for others.

Also, I echo the notion on filters - but only buy expensive if you are really going to use them. I rely on them for my photography and personally use Lee ND Grads, Formatt Hitech solid NDs and polariser.

Most importantly, ENJOY your photography. It is one of the most fulfilling things you can do.

It's your fault I have an awesome set of filters now...

 

[Nathan King]

Ok so here's the deal, looking for perspectives and don't have a ton of time

I have been an Olympus shooter for a while (changed after my Nikon kit became way too clunky and heavy).
I've got a nice compact OMD E-M10, MZuiko 12-40 PRO, Panasonic 20mm and a few little accessories. They fit into a small Crumper messenger bag which I often put into a backpack as an insert when I travel.

Recently gotten really into hiking so I've been taking more landscape shots, but I love urban photography too. I've just start experimenting with long exposure photography and milky way photography (for some reason stars are super visible in Australia versus Canada where I used to live, even very short drives out of the city)

My dilemma:
Sony A7II has come on sale, $1699 with a $300 mail in rebate
I can sell all my Olympus gear for around $1000 and had planned on buying an MZuiko 7-14mm PRO which was about $1400

I COULD upgrade to the Sony system and get maybe one or two prime lenses or continue with Olympus

My main things are:
- Compact/portable
- Image quality (I think Sony wins here hands down)
- Cost; Olympus is the winner but maybe third party companies will be coming out with FF lenses?

Thoughts?? Please help! I am hoping to have this sorted before I go on my honeymoon to Asia in January!

I shoot both the Olympus E-M5 Mark II for casual photography and the Canon 5D Mark IV for work. I have used the Sony A7II on several occasions, though I do not own one. Here are a few thoughts from personal experience:

• At ISO 400 and below and printing 11x14 or smaller, you're going to be hard pressed to tell which photographs you took with the Olympus and which you took with the Sony.
• The Sony 24-70 f/2.8 (giving a similar angle of view range to your Olympus zoom) is just as large as a DSLR version. It's not a combo that you can casually throw in your backpack when you have a bit of empty space, let alone a messenger bag. In fact, most of the E-mount lenses are just as large as their DSLR counterparts. The only full-frame system I've seen that can truly fit in a messenger bag is the Leica M series, and it comes with many disadvantages of its own.
• The Sony will be far better for astrophotography than the Olympus.
• I dislike the ergonomics of the Sony. You might like it, but try it before you buy.

Basically, I think it boils down to how much really low light photography you do and what your typical output is. If most of what you do is web output or smaller prints (16x20 or less) and adequate available light or tripod based I would keep the Olympus.

 

[Cheese&Apple]

Also, this is where the filters come in... get a 0.6 graduated nd on these images and you can balance the exposure of the sky and the land to get more detail across the whole frame.

I'm a bit off topic but as the OP posted sunsets shots and the subject of filters has come up, I have to add my two cents worth and put in a plug in for the often overlooked reverse graduated nd filter. For anyone not familiar with this filter, the darkest part of the filter is at mid-point and it gets gradually lighter towards the top (or bottom if you need to flip it).

As people often take shots of the sun low on the horizon, the reverse graduated filter allows you to control and lower highlights (the brightest part of the composition) at or close to the horizon where the sun is while lifting (brightening) the shadows that occur in the foreground.

Think HDR but with a far more realistic and natural look.

~ Peter

 

[kenoh]

I'm a bit off topic but as the OP posted sunsets shots and the subject of filters has come up, I have to add my two cents worth and put in a plug in for the often overlooked reverse graduated nd filter. For anyone not familiar with this filter, the darkest part of the filter is at mid-point and it gets gradually lighter towards the top (or bottom if you need to flip it).

As people often take shots of the sun low on the horizon, the reverse graduated filter allows you to control and lower highlights (the brightest part of the composition) at or close to the horizon where the sun is while lifting (brightening) the shadows that occur in the foreground.

Think HDR but with a far more realistic and natural look.

~ Peter

Good call... yes one of those is on my want list ...

 

[Mark0]

Good call... yes one of those is on my want list ...

Same here, but I'm not sure my filter wallet has room :S

 

[kenoh]

Same here, but I'm not sure my filter wallet has room :S

I need a better filter wallet solution. Too cumbersome. Got the Lowepro one and not really happy with the scratchy cheap inserts... would have liked microfibre...

 

[MacRy]

You’re a legend! This thread worried me initially because I thought I’d get criticized etc

Even some of the nice words about my photos. I rarely post on public forums because I’m self conscious about my photos (especially seeing other peoples’ Flickr accounts)

I’ll be sticking with Olympus for the time being. Leaning towards the 7-14mm and considering changing to a weather sealed body like the em5ii

Please please please post your photos. Like others have said - we're all a friendly bunch and everyone here genuinely want others to improve and progress along their journey. I posted shots on this forum way back when I started that I thought looked nice, but were just total dog **** looking back on them. Everyone was so supportive and helpful though that it motivated me to do better and now I can confidently post photos that don’t generally want to make you gouge your eyes out.....for the most part.

Don’t ever feel like you are not good enough to be on here. Everyone has to start somewhere and the journey is so much fun.

Also - don’t let any negative constructive criticism put you off. I was a bit of a delicate flower to start with and felt a little hurt on occasion but soon learned that it was all for the best.

 

[kenoh]

Please please please post your photos. Like others have said - we're all a friendly bunch and everyone here genuinely want others to improve and progress along their journey. I posted shots on this forum way back when I started that I thought looked nice, but were just total dog **** looking back on them. Everyone was so supportive and helpful though that it motivated me to do better and now I can confidently post photos that don’t generally want to make you gouge your eyes out.....for the most part.

Don’t ever feel like you are not good enough to be on here. Everyone has to start somewhere and the journey is so much fun.

Also - don’t let any negative constructive criticism put you off. I was a bit of a delicate flower to start with and felt a little hurt on occasion but soon learned that it was all for the best.

And now fast forward a few years and you can take a shredding like a champ!

 

[MacRy]

And now fast forward a few years and you can take a shredding like a champ!

I still cry. I just do it silently and in a corner

 

[kenoh]

I still cry. I just do it silently and in a corner

Yep me too.... posted a pic on FB - one of the B&W Zion images. Love it and someone tore into it for the black shadows. Was gut wrenching becaus I am proud to get something that nice imho.

But... They were right I had dropped the shadows to complete blackness because I had focussed too much on getting the textures right in the rocks...

I will store that away and try to remember next time.

 

[tgara]

Ultimately you have to decide what is most important....sensor capabilities, equipment size and weight, equipment cost,...etc. We are very happy to be shooting m43 Olympus systems.

Don't under sell the benefits of size, I love the form/size/weight of my OMD EM5.

This was one of the main factors in my purchase decision

This is very true. I have a Canon 5D Mark III with a good number of fast (e.g., heavy) lenses -- fabulous camera. I also have a Canon SL1 with an 18-55 lens and a 55-250 lens. The SL1 setup is roughly similar in size and weight to the Olympus mirrorless gear, weighs about 1/4th of the 5DIII and takes stellar pictures. I'm opting for my SL1 setup more and more instead of carrying the beastly heavy 5DIII gear.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I still cry. I just do it silently and in a corner

Don't go to the corner. That's where the spiders live!

 

[MacRy]

Don't go to the corner. That's where the spiders live!

You are not a nice man.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

Yep me too.... posted a pic on FB - one of the B&W Zion images. Love it and someone tore into it for the black shadows. Was gut wrenching becaus I am proud to get something that nice imho.

But... They were right I had dropped the shadows to complete blackness because I had focussed too much on getting the textures right in the rocks...

I will store that away and try to remember next time.

I actually like images where the shadows have gone to black, in regards to internet delivery, it adds some mystery to the image and strength. It's not for every image, but for your Zion capture it adds to the overall finish and interpretation you made for the place and how it influenced you. Stuff the purists that demand no pure blacks or whites, photography is not about reproducing reality, it's an interpretative, subjective and highly personal thing. Be moved by a place and illustrate that emotion in your editing! Don't these people realise that their comments can set folks back weeks, months, or maybe even years, with the insensitivity and forceful nature that it must be done their way!?

Obviously for creating a massive fine art print, you don't want solid blacks or whites. But, there again, I've seen some mighty moving images printed large that did!

 

[MacRy]

I actually like images where the shadows have gone to black, in regards to internet delivery, it adds some mystery to the image and strength. It's not for every image, but for your Zion capture it adds to the overall finish and interpretation you made for the place and how it influenced you. Stuff the purists that demand no pure blacks or whites, photography is not about reproducing reality, it's an interpretative, subjective and highly personal thing. Be moved by a place and illustrate that emotion in your editing! Don't these people realise that their comments can set folks back weeks, months, or maybe even years, with the insensitivity and forceful nature that it must be done their way!?

Obviously for creating a massive fine art print, you don't want solid blacks or whites. But, there again, I've seen some mighty moving images printed large that did!

Well said that man.

 

[High Desert]

Why am I telling you all this. Not to brag, just because despite having tried all sorts in my quest for better images... I have learned in my case at least, the camera system is secondary. I still cannot shoot gorgeous wall hanging worthy images because I am still rotten at spotting interesting things to shoot.

Finally - an honest person!! Not necessarily the gear, but the person behind the gear.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I use a Canon M5, which is a mirrorless camera. I like it a load. Plenty of great options. I already had a lot of Canon glass and it came with an adapter which does work pretty much perfect. So it made sense for me from a cost perspective.

I had bad experience with Sony service so I won't get another one .

 

[rayjay86]

Update for those interested

I decided to stick with Olympus! Cost was a big factor but I also went to the camera store and played around with a Sony, and the lens I’d want and it was quite a bit bigger than my setup now. I really liked the em5 but that’s for another day...

I picked up a Laowa 7.5mm lens which is super compact and quite nice.

Over New Years weekend I went out to wine country here in SA with the family and took this photo. It’s a bit noisy but I couldn’t get lots of stars without allowing some noise

I wanted to be in the centre of the road but my wife wouldn’t let me, Said the oncoming cars would kill me

I’m open to suggestions! I finally bought Adobe CC so was playing with L.R. too

 

[Hughmac]

Good news! Thanks for letting us know.
Looks to be an excellent lens.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[kenoh]

View attachment 744916 Update for those interested

I decided to stick with Olympus! Cost was a big factor but I also went to the camera store and played around with a Sony, and the lens I’d want and it was quite a bit bigger than my setup now. I really liked the em5 but that’s for another day...

I picked up a Laowa 7.5mm lens which is super compact and quite nice.

Over New Years weekend I went out to wine country here in SA with the family and took this photo. It’s a bit noisy but I couldn’t get lots of stars without allowing some noise

I wanted to be in the centre of the road but my wife wouldn’t let me, Said the oncoming cars would kill me

I’m open to suggestions! I finally bought Adobe CC so was playing with L.R. too

Good choice and congratulations on graduating to the "how did they do that in photoshop" club...

 

[Cheese&Apple]

View attachment 744916 Update for those interested

I decided to stick with Olympus! Cost was a big factor but I also went to the camera store and played around with a Sony, and the lens I’d want and it was quite a bit bigger than my setup now. I really liked the em5 but that’s for another day...

I picked up a Laowa 7.5mm lens which is super compact and quite nice.

Over New Years weekend I went out to wine country here in SA with the family and took this photo. It’s a bit noisy but I couldn’t get lots of stars without allowing some noise

I wanted to be in the centre of the road but my wife wouldn’t let me, Said the oncoming cars would kill me

I’m open to suggestions! I finally bought Adobe CC so was playing with L.R. too

Suggestions...

1. Don't shoot with your wife around , and
2. For night skies, shoot with a tripod of course and use at least two exposures from the same spot (one darker for the night sky and one lighter for the foreground) then blend using layers in Ps. This will allow you to work the sky and stars a bit more without ruining the foreground.

~ Peter

 

[rayjay86]

Haha I tried, she wanted to see the stars

Yeah I had my smaller tripod attached which was good

I’m just trying to figure out how to reduce the noise

I had ISO 1250 and a 15s exposure at f/2.0
The moon was out a bit so it wasn’t as dark as I’d want

In LR there was just a bit too much grain and when I did noise reduction I lost a lot of stars

Suggestions...

1. Don't shoot with your wife around , and
2. For night skies, shoot with a tripod of course and use at least two exposures from the same spot (one darker for the night sky and one lighter for the foreground) then blend using layers in Ps. This will allow you to work the sky and stars a bit more without ruining the foreground.

~ Peter

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

In LR there was just a bit too much grain and when I did noise reduction I lost a lot of stars

Do you have access to Photoshop? If so, try searching for Median Stacking and Astrophotography methods, they seem to be the best for this purpose of clean Milky Way stars.

If you only have Lightroom, there is a pretty good article here by Mark Gee, and in the Digital Processing section, he has a link to Time Lapse tutorial, which is the same technique he uses for his Astrophotography shots.

Hope that helps you out.

 

[rayjay86]

Cheers
I’ve got the adobe cc which has PS and LR so I’ll have a look at those links thanks

Do you have access to Photoshop? If so, try searching for Median Stacking and Astrophotography methods, they seem to be the best for this purpose of clean Milky Way stars.

If you only have Lightroom, there is a pretty good article here by Mark Gee, and in the Digital Processing section, he has a link to Time Lapse tutorial, which is the same technique he uses for his Astrophotography shots.

Hope that helps you out.