ordered 1 iphone, got 2

[eplchamps0305]

That is OBSURD. A shipping label and return shipping service couldn't cost any more then $20 to AT&T. They are paying Apple $500 PER IPHONE!!! They aren't just going to throw $500 in the toilet because it's too much of a hassle.

ATT should find out their mistake on their own just as a customer has to do when billed wrong.

 

[pyroo]

You paid for it so it's yours. When Att overcharge you on your bill they won't call you to let you know. If you do not notice it you are out your money. Let them call you. Just hold on to it.

I agree, when they overcharge us, we have to waste time on the phone, telling them to fix their mistake, why do you have to waste your time again to fix this mistake that they made, let them fix their own problems...keep the phone until they call you, time is money, don't waste your time and help AT&T save their money

 

[Applejuiced]

That is OBSURD. A shipping label and return shipping service couldn't cost any more then $20 to AT&T. They are paying Apple $500 PER IPHONE!!! They aren't just going to throw $500 in the toilet because it's too much of a hassle.

That's their problem/fault.
Not the customers.
Ask me if I feel sorry for them?

 

[icyfire]

Note to all the self righteous people who have posted on this thread:

According to US Postal law, any product sent by a company that was not ordered, can be kept by the recipient as a gift with no repercussions. The company cannot ask for the item back nor charge additionally for the item. I understand the whole deal about doing the right thing, but this is not an applicable situation.

 

[Surely]

Note to all the self righteous people who have posted on this thread:

According to US Postal law, any product sent by a company that was not ordered, can be kept by the recipient as a gift with no repercussions. The company cannot ask for the item back nor charge additionally for the item. I understand the whole deal about doing the right thing, but this is not an applicable situation.

Link?

 

[icyfire]

Link?

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/...fraudschemes/othertypes/UnsolicitedFraud.aspx

A company sends you a gift in the mail--a ball point pen, a key chain, a tie. But you didn't order it. What do you do? If you are the type of person this company is looking for, you may feel guilty about accepting the item without paying for it. Don't feel guilty! It's yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything.

You, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement:

* Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such.

* Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.

And in these two cases, you can consider the merchandise a gift if you wish. In all other situations, it is illegal to send merchandise to someone, unless that person has previously ordered or requested it.

These rules are codified in Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009. That section of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 incorporates these protections for American consumers and makes the mailing of unordered merchandise unfair methods of competition and unfair trade practices under the law.

If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender):

* If you have not opened the package, you may mark it "Return to Sender," and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you.

* If you open the package and don't like what you find, you may throw it away.

* If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.

Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.

If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.



Thank you, come again.

 

[casix]

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/...fraudschemes/othertypes/UnsolicitedFraud.aspx


* If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.

Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.

If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.

@icyfire

thank you. This is very helpful!

Casix

 

[ngenerator]

mind=blown, enjoy your new phone, PM me if you want to get rid of it lol

 

[Surely]

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/...fraudschemes/othertypes/UnsolicitedFraud.aspx

A company sends you a gift in the mail--a ball point pen, a key chain, a tie. But you didn't order it. What do you do? If you are the type of person this company is looking for, you may feel guilty about accepting the item without paying for it. Don't feel guilty! It's yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything.

The above that you bolded applies to a gift that is sent to you in the mail, not to the accidental delivery of an extra item.

If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender):

* If you have not opened the package, you may mark it "Return to Sender," and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you.

* If you open the package and don't like what you find, you may throw it away.

* If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.

Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.

If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.

The bolded points apply to the situation that is stated above the bullet points. It does not apply to an honest-mistake, accidental shipment of an item.

Those laws/rules were created to combat the book and CD clubs that used to send more and more books/CDs to you even if you told them to stop. Then, they would bill you for the merchandise.

It may be illegal for the company to send you bills, but they probably don't know that. Unless they know it is illegal, they're going to send bills if they notice that an extra iPhone was sent.

Thank you, come again.

Okay, here is me coming again:

However, if the merchandise was mailed to the consumer as a result of an apparent honest mistake by the company and the consumers do not wish to pay for it, the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) suggested the following actions:

• Write a letter to the company and offer to return the item on a condition that the seller pays for postage and handling. To protect yourself, send a the letter via certified mail with “proof of receipt” and keep a copy of it. It should be noted that the drawback is it would cost $5.21 to send a letter this way.
• Provide the vendor a specific and reasonable amount of time (e.g., 30 days) in which to pick up the item or arrange to have it returned at no expense to the you.
• Let the seller know that after the specified time period has passed, you reserve the right to keep the product or to get rid of it as you wish.

By giving the sender an opportunity to recover the merchandise, no claim can be made that you accepted an offer of sale by merely keeping the shipment.



You can't just keep it and expect no repercussions. But if you do wish to keep it, there are a few good-faith steps that should be taken first.

It may not be illegal to keep it without informing AT&T, but it is unethical.

 

[icyfire]

The above that you bolded applies to a gift that is sent to you in the mail, not to the accidental delivery of an extra item.



The bolded points apply to the situation that is stated above the bullet points. It does not apply to an honest-mistake, accidental shipment of an item.

Those laws/rules were created to combat the book and CD clubs that used to send more and more books/CDs to you even if you told them to stop. Then, they would bill you for the merchandise.

It may be illegal for the company to send you bills, but they probably don't know that. Unless they know it is illegal, they're going to send bills if they notice that an extra iPhone was sent.



Okay, here is me coming again:

However, if the merchandise was mailed to the consumer as a result of an apparent honest mistake by the company and the consumers do not wish to pay for it, the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) suggested the following actions:

• Write a letter to the company and offer to return the item on a condition that the seller pays for postage and handling. To protect yourself, send a the letter via certified mail with “proof of receipt” and keep a copy of it. It should be noted that the drawback is it would cost $5.21 to send a letter this way.
• Provide the vendor a specific and reasonable amount of time (e.g., 30 days) in which to pick up the item or arrange to have it returned at no expense to the you.
• Let the seller know that after the specified time period has passed, you reserve the right to keep the product or to get rid of it as you wish.

By giving the sender an opportunity to recover the merchandise, no claim can be made that you accepted an offer of sale by merely keeping the shipment.



You can't just keep it and expect no repercussions. But if you do wish to keep it, there are a few good-faith steps that should be taken first.

It may not be illegal to keep it without informing AT&T, but it is unethical.

Ok you want to talk about ethics?

What is ethical about AT&T charging through the nose for substandard service with all their dropped calls and coverage holes? And since when have you been so enlightened to preach to everyone about "ethics"? Yes master, we must be ethical towards a multibillion dollar corporation who rapes their customers because they are the sole carrier of the iPhone.

At least I referred to an actual law that is on the books as opposed to making the OP feel guilty about a situation he had absolutely nothing to do with.

OP, keep your iPhone and don't listen to this corporate shill. The law is on your side. Of course, ATT may give you hassle and if you don't want to deal with it, then return it. But if push comes to shove, you're in the right.

 

[Surely]

Ok you want to talk about ethics?

Sure, let's talk about ethics. Ever taken an ethics class? No? Well I have, so I am quite familiar with ethical analysis.

What is ethical about AT&T charging through the nose for substandard service with all their dropped calls and coverage holes? And since when have you been so enlightened to preach to everyone about "ethics"? Yes master, we must be ethical towards a multibillion dollar corporation who rapes their customers because they are the sole carrier of the iPhone.

I never said anything about AT&T's service or their charges. That has nothing to do with the OP's current situation. However, you do realize that you are not forced into doing business with them. It is not a law. It is a choice. Are their rates unreasonable? Perhaps, but that is a matter of perspective. I don't feel that they are unreasonable as I can easily afford it, but that's my opinion.

For you to say it is right to stick it to AT&T because of their rates and service is not ethical behavior. It doesn't matter if it's a small business or if it's a multibillion dollar corporation. Again, their rates and service have nothing to do with the OP's current situation. That's like saying: "that guy's an ******, so it's okay if I steal stuff from him."

I am not preaching, but clearly I have hit a nerve or you wouldn't have responded so harshly.

I don't consider the $30/month data plan a "raping". That's $1 per day. What a gentle rape.

At least I referred to an actual law that is on the books as opposed to making the OP feel guilty about a situation he had absolutely nothing to do with.

And I have cited the Federal Trade Commission's recommendations for handling a situation in which you are sent, by accident, an item.

OP, keep your iPhone and don't listen to this corporate shill. The law is on your side. Of course, ATT may give you hassle and if you don't want to deal with it, then return it. But if push comes to shove, you're in the right.

Lol.... corporate shill? Hardly.

It doesn't matter if the law is on your side. That doesn't stop them from sending bills which may affect your credit if you ignore them. By the time you get the situation sorted out, it may be too late to undo all of the damage done.

As I said, it may not be illegal to keep it without informing AT&T, but it is unethical.

 

[goosnarrggh]

The above that you bolded applies to a gift that is sent to you in the mail, not to the accidental delivery of an extra item.



The bolded points apply to the situation that is stated above the bullet points. It does not apply to an honest-mistake, accidental shipment of an item.

False. Check out Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009 for yourself if you wish.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/39/3009.shtml

The law says that, except as provided for charities and conspicuously marked free samples, it is illegal to send unordered merchandise. The OP isn't breaking the law by accepting the product. AT&T is the one that has broken the law by sending it.

Furthermore, any such illegally delivered merchandise is automatically interpreted as a gift, and cannot be billed, no matter what the original mailer's intentions may have been.

Having received the de-facto gift, the OP has the option of trying to smooth things over with AT&T, by offering to return it. This may end up being the easier thing to do, especially if AT&T tried to force the issue by taking the OP to small claims court. They'd lose in court, but the OP would still have to deal with the hassle.

Remember, AT&T is the one that has committed a wrong here; therefore it is their legal and ethical responsibility, not the OP's, to make it right.

 

[Surely]

False. Check out Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009 for yourself if you wish.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/39/3009.shtml

The law says that, except as provided for charities and conspicuously marked free samples, it is illegal to send unordered merchandise. AT&T is the one that has already broken the law.

Furthermore, any such illegally delivered merchandise is automatically interpreted as a gift, and cannot be billed, no matter what the original mailer's intentions may have been.

I'm guessing this is what you're citing:

Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.

What about this next part that you've left out:

All such merchandise shall have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.


Anyway, I'm not arguing the legality of the situation.

 

[thewireman]

Its yours. Legally.

 

[goosnarrggh]

I'm guessing this is what you're citing:

Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.

What about this next part that you've left out:

All such merchandise shall have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.

Notwithstanding that, how about the part that comes after that:

No mailer of any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, shall mail to any recipient of such merchandise a bill for such merchandise or any dunning communications.

Note the complete absence of any dependence upon the criteria set out in the second half of subsection (b). Even if it wasn't conspicuously marked, it is still in violation of subsection (a), and therefore cannot be billed.

Anyway, I'm not arguing the legality of the situation.

You're arguing the morality of the situation. And as far as I'm concerned, AT&T broke the law, so AT&T is the one that is at the moral disadvantage.

 

[Surely]

You're arguing the morality of the situation. And as far as I'm concerned, AT&T broke the law, so AT&T is the one that is at the moral disadvantage.

Something can be legal and unethical. Something can be illegal and ethical.

In this situation, keeping the iPhone without alerting AT&T to the situation is unethical. The ethical thing to do is to make a quick call to AT&T. That's all.

AT&T hasn't broken any law yet.

They haven't done anything unethical/immoral- they simply made an honest mistake with the OP's shipment.

 

[Applejuiced]

Something can be legal and unethical. Something can be illegal and ethical.

In this situation, keeping the iPhone without alerting AT&T to the situation is unethical. The ethical thing to do is to make a quick call to AT&T. That's all.

AT&T hasn't broken any law yet.

They haven't done anything unethical/immoral- they simply made an honest mistake with the OP's shipment.

Give it up finally dude.
I guess noone is as ethical on an online forum as you are.
In real life who knows, anyone can hide behind a computer and act as a saint.
Personally I don't care what anyone thinks, I would definetelly keep it unless AT&T contacted me looking for it back.

 

[Surely]

Give it up finally dude.

Meh- it's been fun. I'm not shaking my fist at my screen or anything

I guess noone is as ethical on an online forum as you are.

I'm sorry, am I supposed to pretend to be someone I'm not in these forums? Sorry for having integrity.

I'm not trying to preach- I was merely pointing out the difference between the ethics and the legality of this situation.

In real life who knows, anyone can hide behind a computer and act as a saint.

True, anyone can hide behind a computer and act as a saint. Or act any way they want. But then, this place would be utter chaos.

I don't say one thing in these forums and do another in real life. What would be the point of that?

Personally I don't care what anyone thinks, I would definetelly keep it unless AT&T contacted me looking for it back.

You, and anyone else, can do what you want as long as you can live with the consequences that affect others as a result of your actions.

 

[icyfire]

Sure, let's talk about ethics. Ever taken an ethics class? No? Well I have, so I am quite familiar with ethical analysis.

Sorry, I never took an ethics class. Poor me, let me gain ethical insight from some random person online.

I never said anything about AT&T's service or their charges. That has nothing to do with the OP's current situation. However, you do realize that you are not forced into doing business with them. It is not a law. It is a choice. Are their rates unreasonable? Perhaps, but that is a matter of perspective. I don't feel that they are unreasonable as I can easily afford it, but that's my opinion.

I also can easily afford the service (I currently own the Droid which also has the required data plan). However, I wasn't referring to the price of the plan which is on par with their competitor. What I was referring to was that they provide relatively poor service for their high price point. And they are able to do this simply because they have the leverage of the iPhone. Again, none of this is illegal but it certainly goes against your "everyone should be ethical" spiel. Yes it is your "choice" to subscribe to ATT's service but it was also ATT's "choice" to send him the unordered iPhone.

For you to say it is right to stick it to AT&T because of their rates and service is not ethical behavior. It doesn't matter if it's a small business or if it's a multibillion dollar corporation. Again, their rates and service have nothing to do with the OP's current situation. That's like saying: "that guy's an ******, so it's okay if I steal stuff from him."

Woah, Woah, who said that the OP is stealing? The guy didn't walk into an AT&T store and shoplift the iPhone. AT&T sent the UNORDERED iPhone to the OP and the law says that the OP can keep the iPhone with no repercussions. I think you should get your head out of your fantasy "ethical" world and take a look at the law that is on the books.

I am not preaching, but clearly I have hit a nerve or you wouldn't have responded so harshly.

Yes, your incessant "it may not be illegal but it sure is unethical" sounds like preaching to me. Frankly at the end of the day, the law matters, not your presupposed moral high ground.

I don't consider the $30/month data plan a "raping". That's $1 per day. What a gentle rape.

$30/month for inconsistent and unreliable 3G service is raping. Ethically raping of course.

And I have cited the Federal Trade Commission's recommendations for handling a situation in which you are sent, by accident, an item.

Recommendations are not the law. I also recommend the OP to return the phone if he doesn't want to deal the AT&T illegally breathing down his back but he is under no legal obligation to do so, and more importantly, he is not a bad person for that as you keep insinuating.

Lol.... corporate shill? Hardly.

It doesn't matter if the law is on your side. That doesn't stop them from sending bills which may affect your credit if you ignore them. By the time you get the situation sorted out, it may be too late to undo all of the damage done.

I agree that the situation could be messy as AT&T may or may not throw a hissy fit over the iPhone. But again, the law is on the side of the OP, nothing less, nothing more.

As I said, it may not be illegal to keep it without informing AT&T, but it is unethical.

There's no point in beating a dead horse. I think we can agree to disagree on this statement.

 

[Surely]

Sorry, I never took an ethics class. Poor me, let me gain ethical insight from some random person online.

Great response. Why are you here then? To just spout off your opinions and to expect us to accept them as law? I'm here to engage in conversation and to learn things from others. That's the point of these forums.

I also can easily afford the service (I currently own the Droid which also has the required data plan). However, I wasn't referring to the price of the plan which is on par with their competitor. What I was referring to was that they provide relatively poor service for their high price point. And they are able to do this simply because they have the leverage of the iPhone. Again, none of this is illegal but it certainly goes against your "everyone should be ethical" spiel. Yes it is your "choice" to subscribe to ATT's service but it was also ATT's "choice" to send him the unordered iPhone.

It wasn't AT&T's choice to send him the unordered iPhone. It was an accident.

Woah, Woah, who said that the OP is stealing? The guy didn't walk into an AT&T store and shoplift the iPhone. AT&T sent the UNORDERED iPhone to the OP and the law says that the OP can keep the iPhone with no repercussions. I think you should get your head out of your fantasy "ethical" world and take a look at the law that is on the books.

Keeping something that doesn't belong to you when you know who it belongs to is stealing.

I don't live in a fantasy world. I just try to treat others as I would like to be treated. If I accidentally sent someone something, I would hope they would at least try to return it to me.

Yes, your incessant "it may not be illegal but it sure is unethical" sounds like preaching to me. Frankly at the end of the day, the law matters, not your presupposed moral high ground.

Both matter. One just has more apparent consequences than the other.

$30/month for inconsistent and unreliable 3G service is raping. Ethically raping of course.

Um, okay. Cancel your contract if you don't like it. My service experience differs from yours.

Recommendations are not the law. I also recommend the OP to return the phone if he doesn't want to deal the AT&T illegally breathing down his back but he is under no legal obligation to do so, and more importantly, he is not a bad person for that as you keep insinuating.

I know the difference between recommendations and law.

I don't think that the OP is a bad person. I've never said or implied anything like that. Where are you getting this stuff?

I agree that the situation could be messy as AT&T may or may not throw a hissy fit over the iPhone. But again, the law is on the side of the OP, nothing less, nothing more.

Regardless of whose side the law is on, don't you think that if the OP wants to keep it he should follow the directions that the FTC recommends? Especially since it will protect him from a future hassle.

There's no point in beating a dead horse. I think we can agree to disagree on this statement.

This horse died a few pages back.

 

[icyfire]

Great response. Why are you here then? To just spout off your opinions and to expect us to accept them as law? I'm here to engage in conversation and to learn things from others. That's the point of these forums.

No, I'm letting the OP know what the law is and what his legal protections are under the law. In contrast, you're the one spouting off opinions about how everyone should act ethically, and expecting us to accept them like some unwritten commandment. I think it's ironic that you use the word "law". Obviously, the law is something you're not familiar with or you choose to ignore.

It wasn't AT&T's choice to send him the unordered iPhone. It was an accident.

I don't think it was ever established that it was an accident. And yes, it was their choice to send him the iPhone. It was their choice to be careless in case it was an accident.

Keeping something that doesn't belong to you when you know who it belongs to is stealing.

"(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender."

According to Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009 (again something that you choose to ignore for God knows what reason), the iPhone no longer belongs to AT&T or Apple. It belongs to the OP. It is impossible for the OP to steal something that belongs to him. He has no ethical, moral, religious, or whatever, obligation to the sender.

I don't live in a fantasy world. I just try to treat others as I would like to be treated. If I accidentally sent someone something, I would hope they would at least try to return it to me.

As soon as ATT treats their customers with more respect by fixing their poor coverage and network capacity, I would be more than happy to return the favor.

Both matter. One just has more apparent consequences than the other.

Ethics do matter. But I don't think this is a situation that has anything to do with ethics. So again, we agree to disagree.

Um, okay. Cancel your contract if you don't like it. My service experience differs from yours.

Great, but some people like the iPhone and are forced to use AT&T because of it. I think AT&T is taking advantage of this relationship. Canceling the contract would adversely affect anyone trying to use the iPhone in the US.

I don't think that the OP is a bad person. I've never said or implied anything like that. Where are you getting this stuff?

You are basically insinuating that anyone who chooses to keep the iPhone is ethically wrong (i.e. a bad person). That is the whole crux of your argument. I on the other hand am arguing that keeping the iPhone has no bearing on whether the person is ethically good or bad.

Regardless of whose side the law is on, don't you think that if the OP wants to keep it he should follow the directions that the FTC recommends? Especially since it will protect him from a future hassle.

It is up to the OP to decide what he wants to do. He may or may not be hassled in the future, but the whole point of my argument is that the OP is not wrong in keeping the iPhone. I was informing him of his rights under the law.

This horse died a few pages back.

Finally, something we can agree on.

 

[Surely]

No, I'm letting the OP know what the law is and what his legal protections are under the law. In contrast, you're the one spouting off opinions about how everyone should act ethically, and expecting us to accept them like some unwritten commandment. I think it's ironic that you use the word "law". Obviously, the law is something you're not familiar with or you choose to ignore.

At least I know that my opinions are just opinions. However, they are based on my knowledge of ethics. I'm not just making it up as I go. I never said "you are a bad person if you keep it. How dare you? You are disgusting." If I talked like that, then you would have reason to attack me because I would be passing judgment.

And, I figured that you'd pick on the word 'law'. I probably should have used the phrase "universal truth" instead. But yeah, you got me, I'm not familiar with the law and I choose to ignore it. Where are you getting this from?

You don't think that everyone should act ethically, or as ethically as possible? Everyone should act ethically, no? Wow. If people don't act ethically, chaos ensues. Look at what is happening on Wall Street.....

I don't think it was ever established that it was an accident. And yes, it was their choice to send him the iPhone. It was their choice to be careless in case it was an accident.

Come on now. You think AT&T purposefully sent him an extra phone just to screw him over? It was an accident. Some AT&T worker incorrectly filled the order.

"(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender."

According to Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009 (again something that you choose to ignore for God knows what reason), the iPhone no longer belongs to AT&T or Apple. It belongs to the OP. It is impossible for the OP to steal something that belongs to him. He has no ethical, moral, religious, or whatever, obligation to the sender.

I'm not ignoring it, I just think that you are misinterpreting it by leaving out the next sentence.

As soon as ATT treats their customers with more respect by fixing their poor coverage and network capacity, I would be more than happy to return the favor.

How nice of you.

Ethics do matter. But I don't think this is a situation that has anything to do with ethics. So again, we agree to disagree.

You can't pick and choose which situations involve ethics and which do not. Every situation involves ethics to some degree.

Great, but some people like the iPhone and are forced to use AT&T because of it. I think AT&T is taking advantage of this relationship. Canceling the contract would adversely affect anyone trying to use the iPhone in the US.

Still a choice. People can live without iPhones.

You are basically insinuating that anyone who chooses to keep the iPhone is ethically wrong (i.e. a bad person). That is the whole crux of your argument. I on the other hand am arguing that keeping the iPhone has no bearing on whether the person is ethically good or bad.

I never said that the OP (or anyone who would choose to keep it without attempting to return it) is a bad person. Not once did I say that. Not once did I insinuate that. You are drawing that conclusion in order to further your argument.

There are different degrees of ethical behavior. It's not all or nothing. I'm not ethically perfect, and I'd say that most people in the world aren't either. You define yourself by your actions, and your ethics play into how you make your decisions.

It is up to the OP to decide what he wants to do. He may or may not be hassled in the future, but the whole point of my argument is that the OP is not wrong in keeping the iPhone. I was informing him of his rights under the law.

Absolutely it is up to the OP. I'm not barking orders. (Frankly, I think the OP isn't around to read this nonsense anymore)

It may not illegal to keep the iPhone, but why not take the steps that would ensure a hassle-free future? Dealing with AT&T in a few months when they are aggressively demanding payment for the iPhone and/or service on it would not be fun.

Finally, something we can agree on.

Feel free to respond (I can tell that you want the last word), but I think I'm done here. There's really nothing more to say.

Good talk son.

 

[icyfire]

Feel free to respond (I can tell that you want the last word), but I think I'm done here. There's really nothing more to say.

Good talk son.

Talking about dead horses, I think we've beat 10. Whoever reads this can draw their own conclusions. It was fun .

 

[curly14]

Just return it end of story

Two heads are better then one but in this case two iphones aren't

 

[heavensblade23]

AT&T couldn't bend over fast enough when it came to illegal warrantless wiretapping of the US public.

Keep that sucker.