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Ordered LaCie Thunderbolt Little Big Disk for 2011 Mac Mini

mac jones said:
Of course. It's only the heavy users (Video, Audio mostly I imagine) that need this.

It's really scary some of the rigs i see in the pro forums that I frequent. I mean REALLY scary. Makes you nervous :D. A lot of these rigs a $10 Gs and up. I don't know. It always shocks me frankly :D
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Again, more money than brains. It's such a disproportionate slide between cost and performance. $100 to transfer 100 MBs or $1000 to transfer 120 MBs. I bet I could build a rig that's 10% slower for 1000% less.

It's just people who have no clue about how to calculate gains. I mean, if you're waiting 20 minutes every time you move in a knob in a VST-plugin, sure, but to shell out $10,000 a year (because I'm sure these guys swap system's like Hefner swaps chicks), is just asinine, I don't care how much money you have. Give it to a good cause, don't burn it like a fool for your own selfishness.

I love how people think a 2.3 GHz CPU is going to smash a 2.0 GHz CPU. Like that ~8% is going to transfer into anything more than a fraction of a second in the real world. Wow, after a year, you save 2 minutes... good job!

If these guys sat down and calculated how much more work they did and it amounted to a higher net profit than what they could have done with a slower computer, sure, I'll buy it's good for business. But I'm sure that data is about as vacant as their cortex.
 
jdguggs10 said:
On a side note, is the Firewire the best, most overlooked connectivity ever?
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LOL... hardly. It can push 100 MBs (FW800), while USB 2.0 can push 60 MBs (480). Depends what you mean by "best ever." It's just Apple's implementation that's all.
 
Lokheed said:
If these guys sat down and calculated how much more work they did and it amounted to a higher net profit than what they could have done with a slower computer, sure, I'll buy it's good for business. But I'm sure that data is about as vacant as their cortex.
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well....uh maybe. It's always smart to save money, no doubt. It's also fun to spend like a drunken sailor who's cortex (your words) is fried from a life of excess and waste. :)

I remember when I had a cortex it was pretty fried.
 
g4cube said:
There does not appear to be any voltage regulator in the photo for this cable.

Be aware, that FW800 ports may deliver up to 24VDC, and you may damage any connected device that is expected regulated +12VDC.
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I'll look at it with a voltmeter under various scenarios. But you may be right and I may not use it for this particular application as the TB drive is pricey.

Thanks for the heads up though.
 
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Clint007 said:
@ "Yeah that announcement was from February...call me when one of these appear in the real world."
I'll call you in December. :)

====================================
More devices on it's way:
IDF* brings more Thunderbolt peripherals, cheaper controllers next year
* Intels Developers Forum

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/09/idf-brings-more-thunderbolt-peripherals-cheaper-controllers-next-year.ars
Click to expand...

Also old news. I think most of us have grown a bit weary of TB peripheral announcements that will be available TBD. It's great that Belkin and Seagate say they are getting into the game, and hopefully their offerings will be more reasonable than what we have already seen, but products that have yet to ship are not very usefull.
 
mac jones said:
I'll look at it with a voltmeter under various scenarios. But you may be right and I may not use it for this particular application as the TB drive is pricey.

Thanks for the heads up though.
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I confirmed with OWC - there is no voltage regulator with this cable. It is intended for their drive own only.

Damage might occur.
 
g4cube said:
I confirmed with OWC - there is no voltage regulator with this cable. It is intended for their drive own only.

Damage might occur.
Click to expand...

Actually, i'd be more concerned about the port having enough power to run the Lacie reliably. I'll check it with a voltmeter and if it's around 12V i'm not going to worry. I would think modern ICs have regulation built in. I don't know. Then again, If these ports spike to 24V that probably would not be good :D

if you have some data about wild voltage swings with the FW800 port please post link or something.

You never know.

Anyway, thanks for the info.
 
g4cube said:
How's this:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2952

In other words, it depends on the Mac you are using...
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Thanks for that.

Still, the 800 is limited as to power it can supply no matter what the voltage.

watts = volts x amps (watts/volts = amps)

So at 12 volts, W/12v = what the 800 port can produce in amps.

If the 800 port was powerful (at rated Watts) it could easily fry the Lacie if the voltage spiked as W=V x A (as it's the amps that do the frying).
But if the 800 port is rated at like 10watts or something, that's 10/30V= not much.

So there's really no worry! (famous last words :D.... Of course I haven't a clue what i'm talking about. :)

Also, the fact that the rated voltage is variable suggests that the power output is stable at rated power, otherwise, it would be a mess.

The answer that OWC gave you is understandable of course, as they will only support their products. If they had given you any other answer it would have been incorrect (from a tech support perspective).
 
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mac jones said:
Thanks for that.

Still, the 800 is limited as to power it can supply no matter what the voltage.

watts = volts x amps (watts/volts = amps)

So at 12 volts, W/12v = what the 800 port can produce in amps.

If the 800 port was powerful (at rated Watts) it could easily fry the Lacie if the voltage spiked as W=V x A (as it's the amps that do the frying).
But if the 800 port is rated at like 10watts or something, that's 10/30V= not much.

So there's really no worry! (famous last words :D.... Of course I haven't a clue what i'm talking about. :)

Also, the fact that the rated voltage is variable suggests that the power output is stable at rated power, otherwise, it would be a mess.

The answer that OWC gave you is understandable of course, as they will only support their products. If they had given you any other answer it would have been incorrect (from a tech support perspective).
Click to expand...

lacie power adapters are not high end. the lacie device will have a regulator inside it. I have used that cable with these two units driving 2 2.5 inch hdds


http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax_Portable

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/EliteALmini/RAID/eSATA_FW800_FW400_USB

I have used ssds 500gb hdds both 5400 and 7200 and i have used 1tb hdds.

both of these have internal regulators you can bet your bottom dollar the lacie will have one also the lacie uses a 10 dollar external pos switching psu. nuff said.


here it is oh and they charge 20 bucks for it.

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10338
 
philipma1957 said:
lacie power adapters are not high end. the lacie device will have a regulator inside it. I have used that cable with these two units driving 2 2.5 inch hdds


http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax_Portable

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/EliteALmini/RAID/eSATA_FW800_FW400_USB

I have used ssds 500gb hdds both 5400 and 7200 and i have used 1tb hdds.

both of these have internal regulators you can bet your bottom dollar the lacie will have one also the lacie uses a 10 dollar external pos switching psu. nuff said.


here it is oh and they charge 20 bucks for it.

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10338
Click to expand...

Yes it's safe (maybe? :D )

No really, it's just like the crummy USB ports. The 800 port is not all of a sudden going to produce damaging power to anything. More like 'bare minimum power'. If you plug in a 12v device and it doesn't work (assuming the polarity is right), it's not because you fried it with the FW800 port's awesome power, but because it doesn't have what it takes.

It's interesting though, that apparently this port can run just about anything from 12-30V (very low power anythings), which is pretty cool really. Not that you can find many devices at that voltage that require only .3 amps or whatever. But there are some things like that.

But you are right. Anything today with IC's is regulated. All of today's IC's have regulation. Yet the cheap AC adapters are junk and could easily fry or cause problems. In other words, like you pointed out, It's the AC adapters that are a risk, and not the ports. Your a lot safer with the 800 port than the AC adapter.

Note: In researching the Lacie drives I noticed there were LOTS of complaints about the AC adapters. Apparently, they fail like clockwork.

The problem is though, that we have to go by our own wits, as none of this (rather messy) stuff is authorized or tested. It's so much easier when it is. If I was reading this I wouldn't trust anyone with something like this. You just have to sort of figure it out for yourself, and be willing to take a potentially expensive chance

Your move.
 
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I think the LaCie is +12v @ 2amps or 3amps. I have both types here with my other LaCie drives.

Some of the Macs of the past provided more than 20v, like the older Macs, and the MacPro. None have Thunderbolt of course.

My cautious statement is that you cannot guarantee the FW800 output voltage, and you don't necessarily know the input voltage range that the LaCie drive can tolerate. Would be tough to blow the LaCie power supply. An expensive lesson for sure. I seem to recall some FW800 hubs being damaged in the pst becuase they did not deal properly with the max possible voltage range of the FW800 ports on some computers.

Also, Thunderbolt provides 10W, and is apparently not sufficient to power the LaCie drive without the power adapter. The FW800 port can supply 7W guaranteed, which is less than what the Thunderbolt can provide. Not so simple to simply add the power from different sources.

Also from other Thunderbolt articles: the Thunderbolt cable consumes power. From the looks of the PCB, looks like a significant power draw; and then there are the two drives. In some of my measurements at home on other products, SSD drives sometimes had a larger power draw than the HDD did. In fact, sometimes peaking over what the manufacturer stated in their specs.

I don't have a LaCie Thunderbolt drive here, so not possible for me to be more definitive.

There must be a good reason why LaCie did not make this bus powered. And the bridge board certainly looks a lot more complicated than the typical eSATA, FW, or USB drive.
 
mac jones said:
Yes it's safe (maybe? :D )

No really, it's just like the crummy USB ports. The 800 port is not all of a sudden going to produce damaging power to anything. More like 'bare minimum power'. If you plug in a 12v device and it doesn't work (assuming the polarity is right), it's not because you fried it with the FW800 port's awesome power, but because it doesn't have what it takes.

It's interesting though, that apparently this port can run just about anything from 12-30V (very low power anythings), which is pretty cool really. Not that you can find many devices at that voltage that require only .3 amps or whatever. But there are some things like that.

But you are right. Anything today with IC's is regulated. All of today's IC's have regulation. Yet the cheap AC adapters are junk and could easily fry or cause problems. In other words, like you pointed out, It's the AC adapters that are a risk, and not the ports. Your a lot safer with the 800 port than the AC adapter.

Note: In researching the Lacie drives I noticed there were LOTS of complaints about the AC adapters. Apparently, they fail like clockwork.

The problem is though, that we have to go by our own wits, as none of this (rather messy) stuff is authorized or tested. It's so much easier when it is. If I was reading this I wouldn't trust anyone with something like this. You just have to sort of figure it out for yourself, and be willing to take a potentially expensive chance

Your move.
Click to expand...
I did research on the psu that may come with the new lacie t-bolt it is 12v 1.5 amp rated for 24 watts or 18 watts depends or what you read. It is 20 bucks from lacie but I found what appears to be the exact same psu for 10 bucks just does not have a lacie label on it. I am thinking the minis fw port will give no more then 11 watts soooo the cable idea may not work.

g4cube said:
I think the LaCie is +12v @ 2amps or 3amps. I have both types here with my other LaCie drives.

Some of the Macs of the past provided more than 20v, like the older Macs, and the MacPro. None have Thunderbolt of course.

My cautious statement is that you cannot guarantee the FW800 output voltage, and you don't necessarily know the input voltage range that the LaCie drive can tolerate. Would be tough to blow the LaCie power supply. An expensive lesson for sure. I seem to recall some FW800 hubs being damaged in the pst becuase they did not deal properly with the max possible voltage range of the FW800 ports on some computers.

Also, Thunderbolt provides 10W, and is apparently not sufficient to power the LaCie drive without the power adapter. The FW800 port can supply 7W guaranteed, which is less than what the Thunderbolt can provide. Not so simple to simply add the power from different sources.

Also from other Thunderbolt articles: the Thunderbolt cable consumes power. From the looks of the PCB, looks like a significant power draw; and then there are the two drives. In some of my measurements at home on other products, SSD drives sometimes had a larger power draw than the HDD did. In fact, sometimes peaking over what the manufacturer stated in their specs.

I don't have a LaCie Thunderbolt drive here, so not possible for me to be more definitive.

There must be a good reason why LaCie did not make this bus powered. And the bridge board certainly looks a lot more complicated than the typical eSATA, FW, or USB drive.
Click to expand...
I know that you will not over volt the lacie but you may under watt it. I have found that samsung 470 ssd are really good at being a low power ssd so it may be that running the lacie off the minis fw800 jack will work with some but not all ssd's. Anyone trying this diy mod needs to know what they are doing. BTW lacie may have just made any hdd/ssd not workable via special firmware on the drives they use. At this stage it is all conjecture. On I have to just wait and see I will post my results to see if putting in different drives is possible. no less different psu's
.
 
I was just thinking if its better to use a base 2011 Mac Mini in target disk mode as an external Thunderbolt drive vs the LaCie Little Big Disk. Especially, for those that want to gut the LaCie drive and swap in SSDs. The Mac Mini will definitely support 3rd party drives. LaCie is still unknown at this point.
 
shortcut3d said:
I was just thinking if its better to use a base 2011 Mac Mini in target disk mode as an external Thunderbolt drive vs the LaCie Little Big Disk. Especially, for those that want to gut the LaCie drive and swap in SSDs. The Mac Mini will definitely support 3rd party drives. LaCie is still unknown at this point.
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I didn't think of that.

Any links as to user experiences? (I"m going to search now)
 
philipma1957 said:
I know that you will not over volt the lacie but you may under watt it.
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Applying more than +12v when a product is expecting to only see +12v may lead to unintended fireworks, giving new meaning to the term "FireWire".

I recall blowing a router awhile ago that was expecting to see only +9v, when I inadvertently connected a +12v wall wart. Just because the connector fits doesn't mean it will work.
 
g4cube said:
Applying more than +12v when a product is expecting to only see +12v may lead to unintended fireworks, giving new meaning to the term "FireWire".

I recall blowing a router awhile ago that was expecting to see only +9v, when I inadvertently connected a +12v wall wart. Just because the connector fits doesn't mean it will work.
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yes but more then likely the polarity was reversed then the voltage was too high. I have used the mini to drive both owc 2 hdd units both of them have internal voltage regulation. you can feed about 16 volts to them. elite pro mini and the maximus mini will run 11.v to 16 v no problem. now i did test them with quite a few power supplies. I did not test if they have reverse polarity protection. I am not saying you blew that router due to polarity being reversed rather then over voltage. I am saying you may of done that. In fact the polarity could have been reversed along with the voltage being too high. A double whammy so to speak.


When the unit comes I will test it and then test the polarity of the ac adapter. I will then use a far better power supply making sure the polarity is correct. Once the better quality power supply is connected I will lower voltage to 11.5v to see if the unit runs at under voltage. I will then run the unit at 12.5v. By careful testing I can determine the limits of the unit as to mini voltage max voltage along with min amps. Takes about a day to get a good idea of what the unit will need.
 
there's no risk of using the Firewire cable. Most likely it will not work though. I think if the port had enough power Lacie may have supplied a cable. But then again, it just might not be their style, or something.

But we can go back and forth like this until the cows come home. But those few 'who actually buy one of these' , probably are crazy enough to do anything. :D
 
philipma1957 said:
yes but more then likely the polarity was reversed then the voltage was too high.
Click to expand...

When I blew the router, it was the same polarity. center positive. The regulator inside the router could not tolerate the over-voltage condition. The router had several regulators inside to power various circuitry that required different voltages.

Good luck in your testing...don't blow anything up! It is an expensive toy to experiment with.
 
g4cube said:
When I blew the router, it was the same polarity. center positive. The regulator inside the router could not tolerate the over-voltage condition. The router had several regulators inside to power various circuitry that required different voltages.

Good luck in your testing...don't blow anything up! It is an expensive toy to experiment with.
Click to expand...

THANKS for the good luck wish. for all I know this unit may not let me do anything I want to do with.. Ie drop in some ssd's and run with a firewire to dc for power. BTW it is shipping.. I have a pair of kingston ssd's on order 64gb type for 64 dollars after rebate.

so I could build a 128 gb ssd for 525 seems costly, but it is a one piece movable osx that should have speeds of 500 read and 360 write. the lacie piece as an ssd is 899 so this is 375 less and allows portable use. it is also a great rescue os x for an iMac.

it really seems to me that t-bolt is very nice for iMac and so so for other machines.
 
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