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buckingham2015

macrumors member
Oct 13, 2015
53
51
California
Yeah I’m not expecting 10 years although that’d be awesome lol.

We know things can change but for now the focus is oncology. So yeah it’ll be a while.
I've been using my 2014 15" MBP for almost 8 years now, and it's still amazing for everything that isn't video games or intense video processing.

I could absolutely see M1 Macbooks lasting 10+ years and still being buttery smooth for all common use cases.

This is without even taking into account how much Moore's law has been slowing down.
 
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NewUsername

macrumors 6502a
Aug 20, 2019
591
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Definitely don't forget about the possibility of accidental damage or loss. Some sort of insurance coverage would seem to be appropriate. A friend's daughter, while at university, stood on her Apple laptop, which had been left on the floor (albeit when she was visiting home). She ended up with a Windows laptop replacement – and then the daughter's friend somehow managed to ruin that one. Got a MacBook Air after that.

Unfortunately it's far too easy to spill something (or someone else to do so), or to drop it, leave it somewhere by mistake, etc, no matter what age the laptop user, but perhaps more so when one is younger and a little more foolish/distracted?

And make sure she backs everything up regularly, so an external drive might be an additional purchase for dad?

I wish your daughter well.
As someone who spilled water on two MacBook Airs, I would like to say: this.
Actually I also once stepped on one, but the damage was very minor and I managed to convince the Apple store it was their fault so they put a new screen on it for free (this was within warranty).

While having a MacBook Pro, a lot of RAM and a huge SSD is definitely nice, don't forget not all laptops last ten years in pristine condition…
 
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chengengaun

macrumors 6502
Feb 7, 2012
371
854
As someone who spilled water on two MacBook Airs, I would like to say: this.
Actually I also once stepped on one, but the damage was very minor and I managed to convince the Apple store it was their fault so they put a new screen on it for free (this was within warranty).

While having a MacBook Pro, a lot of RAM and a huge SSD is definitely nice, don't forget not all laptops last ten years in pristine condition…
Concurring, as someone who has had coffee spilled on the MBP because someone thought it’s funny to throw a pillow on someone who was hard at work. Can be catastrophic if that happened one day before oral defense.
 

happygodavid

macrumors 6502
May 14, 2007
251
265
Northern Virginia
Thank you. It’s actually for my daughter. I think a mba would’ve been good too but like most fathers I wanted her to be set up for a while at college. She has a 2015 15” mbp she uses now, it’s been old reliable but I think the 14” mbp was good timing. Again especially with the better keyboard.
Former Apple Retail employee here.

Here's how this conversation would've gone when I worked for Apple:

"What's the computer going to be used for?"

If: "Internet, email, photos, watching Netflix, documents, spreadsheets, presentations, and the like."

Then: "A MacBook Air will be perfect. One huge advantage is that it's super lightweight. If you don't need the horsepower of a Pro, the featherweight is much easier to slip into a bag or backpack, and it weighs far less. If you really want to spend more money, then use said extra money on other things: an iCloud subscription to more than cover all her storage, or just go all out with an Apple One subscription. If she doesn't have AirPods, get those. Or an Apple Watch; it'll help with fitness. But you'll be flushing money down the toilet if you buy a MacBook Pro. UNLESS. She absolutely wants a 16" screen. Then, get the base model MBP, and all of the above extra recommendations still apply if you've got the extra budget. At the very minimum, though, you need a base level MBA (with upgraded RAM if it's in the budget; don't waste money on extra storage.) and enough iCloud storage to store all her docs, pics, etc. Make sure she knows how to save files in iCloud instead of on the Mac. If you don't wanna think about how much iCloud storage to get, get the 2TB account for $9.99/mo. or Apple One for $29.99/mo. And get Apple Care. That's a given. If you're worried about speed in 3 or 4 years, don't. Upgrade the RAM, and she'll be fine for 6, maybe 7 years."

If: "Internet, email, docs, etc., plus: video editing, graphic design, heavy duty photo editing."

Then: "A MacBook Pro would be the best choice. With a MacBook Air, it'll get the job done, but it will chug quite a bit with heavier workloads." Everything else would still apply.

Summary: Apple told us to ask these questions so that we would sell things people actually needed, rather than what they thought they needed or wanted to spend money on for shininess factor, status, etc. I can't tell you how many times I undersold people on computers. Folks would walk in and say, "Give me the most expensive laptop money can buy. My kid is going to college, and I want something that'll last." Ninety nine times out of a hundred, that conversation ended without them buying the most expensive laptop money could buy. Currently, a MBA is an excellent machine, and Apple just made the option for extending Apple Care up to 7 years.

So there ya go! Get the computer she needs, and spend money on iCloud (or Apple One) and AppleCare. Extra cash can go to AirPods and/or an Apple Watch. Or a 16" screen.

I promise. Any Apple employee worth their salt would say pretty much the exact same thing; no one is paid on commission, and we were trained at length on having this exact conversation. I had some variation of it literally thousands of times.

Hope that helps you and perhaps someone else!

Edit: Sorry for the dissertation. I just had coffee. :)

Edit 2: If you're concerned about her having the latest model, and if she can continue using here old computer for the first semester or so, you could wait til the fall Apple Event. They often release new models then. My theory was that they waited until after school started to get all the old inventory sold to folks like you. No basis for my theory other than common sense observation. But, you could wait and see, and then that could make for a nice Christmas present, even if they don't release an update. :)
 
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FocusAndEarnIt

macrumors 601
May 29, 2005
4,628
1,112
Resident here. You could carry that machine through medical school easily. And into residency honestly, just might need a battery replacement by that point. Med school learning is extremely extensive on the student end, but on the computer end, it’s pretty light. Just thousands and thousands (and thousands, not joking) of PowerPoint slides.
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,540
7,236
Serbia
Thank you. It’s actually for my daughter. I think a mba would’ve been good too but like most fathers I wanted her to be set up for a while at college. She has a 2015 15” mbp she uses now, it’s been old reliable but I think the 14” mbp was good timing. Again especially with the better keyboard.

Also, 14" comes with a great Mini-LED display and amazing speakers - so, it's not just about performance. It is *nicer* and that may be a good reason to get it, even if the performance ends up being a bit overkill.

If you can afford it, I say - go for it.
 
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Student of Life

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2020
792
916
I would think a MacBook Air and an iPad, Pro or Mini might be the better option. That way you can work on the powerpoint slides or annotate PDFs. Also the apple pencil might be better for taking notes or drawing depending on the medical class.

The screen size difference between the 13.3 and the 14 is minimal if one is being honest. If you want the MacBook Pro go for it but get the bigger 16. That way you can have space to watch a class lecture and take notes on a full size word document etc.
 
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Truefan31

macrumors 68040
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Aug 25, 2012
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Good for her. We need more oncologists. I used to do work on systems for cancer drugs at a biopharma and we had some great oncologists that we worked with.

Yes you’re right. I think she’s doing it for the right reasons too, to help people first and foremost. Cancer isn’t going anywhere unfortunately……
 
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Truefan31

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Aug 25, 2012
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Definitely not an overkill.
Almost exactly what we purchased for our premed daughter as well ( we only got 512GB of storage ). The MacBook Air would have been fantastic as well. Not sure about the future proofing part. We trade them in at 3 years. Heck we get almost what we originally paid for it when selling used.

Yeah I got the 10core 1tb ssd because it was 200 off at Costco. That’s what made me somewhat decide on the pro vs air as well, although I’m sure the air is more than good enough. I’m debating on whether to go with the air for now……..
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
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My personal opinion is to steer away from the mba; while it is a good machine for a little more, you are getting a machine that is significantly better. The MBA doesn't make much sense in the lineup at its price. Of course, I am talking when they do another update to the 13 mbp. Personally, I would get the 14" pro no matter what, it is an expensive but very solid machine.

Also, pre-med courses will require programs that can use the extra ram (pointless to pay the apple tax to upgrade to 16gb from 8gb on the air) and processing power. Also, the 1tb storage is very nice since it is a machine you will keep for years.

Yeah a part of me thinks even if 3-4 maybe more years down the road I could get her another MacBook pro( or air) and I could use the “old” 14” mbp. Or even a trade in.
 
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Truefan31

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Aug 25, 2012
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The MBA canera is more than OK for Zoom calls and the battery easily lasts the whole day.

Also, a lot of the medical schools have gone the virtual machine route due to privacy concerns (patient information, medical software licensing, etc). Most of the med students / residents get access to their own Windows virtual machine (VCS) that can be accessed over the internet through Citrix or equivalent. All the student work (Word, presentations, research, patient data) will basically happen inside that virtual machine and all the info is stored in the Univeristy cloud and backed up on the University servers. Nothing should actually be stored on the personal laptops, especially patient related info due to privacy and safety concerns. This is emphasized multiple times by the University IT department. I think most of the medical schools will go this route because all the expensive software will be purchased by the University directly and made available to all the students and residents free of charge inside the Virtual Machine. Normally everything that a student needs will be available in the VCS and no additional software will need to be bought (Word, Mail, Powerpoint, SPSS, Medical Imaging software, etc)

So the laptop will basically serve as a point of access for the virtual machine and that's basically it when it comes to student work, all the heavy duty processing is done in the cloud. Even a Chromebook with a good screen could work just as well. An iPad 12.9" might work too, but I am not too sure, it all depends how the virtual machine it is accessed. Citrix on iPad was not good, I tried it on my end, the mouse support was terrible and it couldn't really be used to work with the Windows virtual machine.

For healthcare students, the times of personal laptops to be used for school has passed. The focus is on patient privacy and data security and it is much easier to have it all on the University servers and the students access it remotely. There have been cases when students lost their personal laptops and sensitive patient data was compromised, that is a huge liability issue for the Universities and Hospitals. The new norm is centralized cloud access + a remote machine to access it that must have an encrypted SSD.

Hmm that’s def food for thought. I need to follow up with the university to see how they do things in their program. Maybe the mbp isn’t necessary (even though the tech enthusiast in me loves what it offers lol)
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
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Today's "overkill" Mac will probably be a "getting older but still fast enough to keep up" Mac 5 years in the future. The OS and software gets more demanding over time, so if you shoot a little higher than you need, performance-wise, you're buying usable life down the road. A MacBook Air is definitely quick enough today but by the time MacOS 17 comes out, it might be seriously lagging.

Yeah that was my thought process. Getting the 10 core pro cpu is a slight bump too to maybe eek out a little more usefulness?
 
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Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
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Considering you're staring down the barrel of "daughter at med school" costs, Im surprised you even noticed the price differences. :D

Honestly, she may value the lighter weight of the Air, and it should be good for five years of use. You can save at least 200 if you go refurbished. Just set an alert for the config you want.


Thank you for the link. Lol yeah med school costs are no joke. But hey it’s my daughter. Like most fathers we support them, albeit in a financially smart way.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
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Aug 25, 2012
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For the purpose of future-proofing, at least 16 GB memory and 1 Tb SSD are the minimum you should consider. Screen size is also important. Before I retired from a position as medical school faculty a decade ago, I wrote journal articles, textbooks, and educational software. For a while I tried using an Air (11 inch if memory serves) but I found it nearly impossible to have several app windows open (at a useful size) at the same time and I found that terribly limiting. I eventually resolved to never to purchase a work laptop with less than a 15 inch screen. That said, the 14 inch MBPs now have screen sizes pretty close to what my old 15 inch rMBP had.

These days it seems many pre-meds are entering the application process for med school with at least some research publications. So, if your pre-med is likely to be doing research and writing it up, it probably behooves you to get her the Mac you describe from a screen size, memory, and storage standpoint. The computing power of the M1 Pro MBP may be a little overkill right now, depending on her choice of major, but rest of the specs are spot-on. And the machine will last her through her undergraduate education and, come her first year in med school, she'll still have a machine that can do the job for her. Go for it!!

Thank you. Yes she is very much into research so yeah maybe the 14” mbp will suit her overall. The screen is so nice!
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
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I got my kid an air. and she just graduated engineering school Friday and didn't miss out on anything. They don't need power for anything at all... The new cheapest air is faster than my BTO top of the line 27" imac and about 10x faster than my older kids air, so even more true now as my 2nd kid is just about to start college... That's what I'll be getting her.

Congrats on your kid. Yeah I’m thinking maybe a mba with a external monitor now possibly.
 
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Truefan31

macrumors 68040
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Aug 25, 2012
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If you need performance, get 14 pro.(lowest config of M1pro processor)
If you don't need much power or M1 is enough, consider if you need extra ports, 120hz promotion, future proof design, and money.
For all machines, select 16G ram, it speeds everything up.
If battery life is the biggggest concern, try the lower-end Macbook Pro with M1, it got 20hrs.

Does the 14” mbp not have good battery life?
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
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A large external screen is helpful when writing papers, reading articles side by side, etc., so that is a useful accessory to get besides the MBP. Often overlooked are productivity apps which can cost a bit - it is useful to automate certain workflows e.g. retrieving papers from databases, managing citations etc. Mac-based solutions e.g. DEVONthink can help in organising papers and other materials.

Yeah I’m thinking a 27-32” monitor for her would be nice now. For the reasons you mentioned.
 
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Truefan31

macrumors 68040
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Aug 25, 2012
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As someone who has recently completed medical school and residency, I value portability and battery life above all. The regular M1 processor is even overkill. I would recommend the 13" M1 MBP with 16GB of RAM. The battery life is incredible. When I was in college, I had a huge 15" windows laptop and regretted it when I saw all of my friends with 13" MacBooks that were far more portable. I bought a 13" MBP for medical school and residency. Use the extra money saved and buy her a nice 4K or 5K monitor. Far more useful.

I do admit I have a maxed out 14" MBP now as an attending physician but solely because I need to edit 45MP RAW files from my mirrorless camera in Lightroom. Without that requirement, I would have gone with the 13" or MacBook Air.

Thank you. I feel like the 13” mbp is kinda in no man’s land. Between the m1 mba and the 14” mbp. But I’ll look into it there’s probably some nice deals. And yeah I’m thinking of a monitor for her now too.
 

Truefan31

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Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
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Dont feel bad. I bought the 16" to do things like web browsing and media consumption. I value things like good build quality and a nice display.

Yes me too. That 120hz display is so smooth lol. I know she’s love it but again it’s probably more a want than a need.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
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Are you going to be frequently carrying the laptop around? If so, then perhaps returning it and waiting for the upcoming new MacBook Air would be a better choice due to less weight. Due to its significantly lighter weight, the MBA is more portable than the MBP. The current MBA has the option of 16GB RAM (16GB is maxed out) and a 1TB SSD (2TB is maxed out), so it's highly likely the upcoming MBA will have the same option.

Yeah I’d love for the m2 mba to come out soon. I’ve got a 90 day return window so I can wait a little………..
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
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That 14" MacBook Pro is $3750AU here, my daughter is doing teaching at uni, in her 2nd year with a 13" M1 Air which was about $1300.
So yeah way over kill lol.

Damn. At those prices I’d def would’ve gone mba. Lol
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
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Both are great machines, you can't go wrong. One extra benefit of the Air is that it's a "tried and true" design, so less likely to have some unexpected issue (display for example) one year from now or 3 years from now. Also the fan-less design is sealed off so no failures due to dust down the road.

I would go MBA 16/1 with the option of a 4k external display, if/when lots of screen space is needed. The benefit of extreme portability is not to be underestimated for students.

Ultimately both are great, and once she's filled in on the details, it should be her choice.

Thank you. Yeah I didn’t really have a conversation on what she wants/needs. I’m the techie in the family so she relies on me to make most decisions. Hence why this thread exists now lol.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
I recommend the MBA too mostly because it's 1.27kg vs 1.6kg.

Whether MBP overkill really depends on what you want to do on the computer. MBP is good if you're really going to push the system to its limits.

M1 MBA is still an extremely capable computer.

Yeah honestly I can’t see her really taxing the mbp at least in the beginning. But it’s such a nice quality laptop. And again the small discount helped.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
Definitely don't forget about the possibility of accidental damage or loss. Some sort of insurance coverage would seem to be appropriate. A friend's daughter, while at university, stood on her Apple laptop, which had been left on the floor (albeit when she was visiting home). She ended up with a Windows laptop replacement – and then the daughter's friend somehow managed to ruin that one. Got a MacBook Air after that.

Unfortunately it's far too easy to spill something (or someone else to do so), or to drop it, leave it somewhere by mistake, etc, no matter what age the laptop user, but perhaps more so when one is younger and a little more foolish/distracted?

And make sure she backs everything up regularly, so an external drive might be an additional purchase for dad?

I wish your daughter well.

Thank you. Yeah with Costco and using their cc to purchase you get 4 years of warranty through them. However I went ahead and got applecare plus when I bought it. It was 219 vs the normal 279.
 
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