Pages is the worst Application known to man

[mpainesyd]

Under macOS (not just Pages) the Option (Alt) key does a whole lot of extra things when clicking on a menu item. This also works for the menu bar icons at the top of the Mac screen. For example try Option-clicking on the wifi fan.

I did find the change from Save-as to Duplicate annoying when Apple introduced it several years ago but I am comfortable with it now.

I find Windows - particularly Office - is much worse for the UI. For example, text wrapping in an Excel cell takes several illogical steps (unless I am missing something).

 

[AZhappyjack]

But it sucks that you have to do these things. I have been using macs since the 1994 and I don't want to have to check hidden menus for eater eggs on things that should just be common place. That's a stupid thing to have to do.

You could just learn the keyboard shortcuts and be done with the drama...

⌥⇧⌘S - Option+Shift+Command+S

 

[martyjmclean]

You could just learn the keyboard shortcuts and be done with the drama...

⌥⇧⌘S - Option+Shift+Command+S

Save As is just ⇧⌘S, no need for ⌥.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Why can't Apple just make a normal program with normal functions?

Pages is a diabolical and unproductive dogs breakfast. It's a total mess and failure. It's ridiculously painful to use.

My current annoyance is that almost every program known to man has a "Save As" function. Oh, not at Apple, we're so cool and different and special. We have the Duplicate function, the most annoying convoluted junk UI ever where you have to then navigate several drop down menus and then select a file, and then move the file. But if you do this AFTER you've used your previous document as a template and close it down before you realise, you lose all your work on that previous document entirely!

I just lost a days worth of work because of this utter crap and I can't get it back. I just deleted it and purchased Word.

Go and learn some remedial software design for F sake!

The Duplicate function is something Apple forced in in most of its application in 10.7 Lion, so not really the fault of Pages. They reverted some of them in 10.8 Mountain Lion due to the backslash. Why some applications still have that option is beyond me, because it is bad UX design.

 

[Stephen.R]

They reverted some of them in 10.8 Mountain Lion due to the backslash. Why some applications still have that option is beyond me, because it is bad UX design.

It's because of auto-save, and file versioning.

With files auto-saved (which allows useful versioning), "save as" suddenly becomes un-intuitive, because your changes have already been saved to the original file.

And I'm not really sure what you mean by "reverted some due to backlash".

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

And I'm not really sure what you mean by "reverted some due to backlash".

I also remember incorrectly. The Option-Command-S feature was added in Mountain Lion, not reverted in some apps.

And by backslash, I mean that there was a large outcry against the removal of Save As.

 

[DeeEss]

Are you sure about that? Usually it saves snapshots automatically and you can revert to previous versions, even without Time Machine configured.

Try File > Revert to... > Browse all Versions

Thanks I will try that out. Much appreciated.
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Strongly disagree. A user choosing not to learn how to use an application does not make the application bad. I love Pages and it's been my go-to word processing & graphic design app for a decade. The Instant Alpha implementation is genius. I made virtually everything on this site with Pages and it never let me down.

Be my guest, you can disagree all you like, but you're wrong It's frustratingly bad. Clunky, buggy, convoluted. I mean, no save as function—WTF were they thinking?

 

[ignatius345]

I consider removing the Save as... command as part of Apple’s action plan to dumb down it’s application suite.

It's not so much "dumbing down" as it is a changing of the document paradigm. This came in a few OS versions ago (maybe someone here remembers better than I) -- basically the idea is that you use "duplicate" instead of "save as" and if you want to rename or move or apply tags to a file you can do by clicking on its name in the title bar. Not every developer jumped on board with this, but Apple's native apps all work this way.

I personally prefer the old "save as" method but once you get used to it, the new way is pretty powerful. The ability to move a file while you have it open (without using "save as" and generating a second copy of it) is useful in some situations.

 

[Stephen.R]

basically the idea is that you use "duplicate" instead of "save as"

Like I said, it’s because of versioning and autosave.

“Save as” implies saving your unsaved changes in a new file. But with auto save it’s already saved the changes you made so it would be confusing to still show “save as” because the original document would also have saved the changes.

 

[juanm]

WOW! So the question in my mind is; why do you use Pages? If I thought something was the worst of all time, I would never use it. I would delete it and be done with it. There are hundreds of word processing apps you can choose from. I personally like Pages. Works fine for me. Then again, I took time to learn how to use it. But if I was as frustrated with it as you are, I would simply discard it and find something that worked for me. Good luck.

Not OP but I use pages to draw schematics a lot.

 

[DeeEss]

As stated above, a simple adjustment to the Keyboard Shortcut Preferences can fix this particular issue. To call the entire program garbage for one minor feature (believe it or not, there is a reason for this change—though I think it's stupid and they should just leave "Save As" alone), is ridiculous. It's YOUR job to learn how to use the software that you choose to use.

View attachment 838588

No, it is garbage. It's like if someone just decided not to use the word hello anymore and instead slapped the person in the face for being rude.

You should not have to go into a keyboard preferences pane type in Save As... (Don't forget the dots?—Really? that is equally ridiculous!) You should be able to open a program, jump right in and use universally accepted UI and function on the most fundamental functions like this.

Apple just wants to be different but they end up just making something that is flawed, costing in time and money, and extremely irritating. I can see all these programmers sitting around a laptop pointing and laughing at threads like this because we fell for their traps.

It's the job of Software developers to write software that is intuitive and easy as possible to use, that follows universally accepted UI for the most fundamental of functions, that doesn't need days of reading about it—that is VERY un-Apple. If they can't make a decent bit of software with normal functioning then people stop using it and they fail at their job.

Given this is Apple's only word processing alternative which comes with the computer that is what THEY want their customers to use. It is THEIR job to make it work effectively, efficiently and intuitively. That is normally Apple's greatest strength.

"It just works" Steve Jobs.

 

[sracer]

No, it is garbage. It's like if someone just decided not to use the word hello anymore and instead slapped the person in the face for being rude.

You should not have to go into a keyboard preferences pane type in Save As... (Don't forget the dots?—Really? that is equally ridiculous!) You should be able to open a program, jump right in and use universally accepted UI and function on the most fundamental functions like this.

Apple just wants to be different but they end up just making something that is flawed, costing in time and money, and extremely irritating. I can see all these programmers sitting around a laptop pointing and laughing at threads like this because we fell for their traps.

It's the job of Software developers to write software that is intuitive and easy as possible to use, that follows universally accepted UI for the most fundamental of functions, that doesn't need days of reading about it—that is VERY un-Apple. If they can't make a decent bit of software with normal functioning then people stop using it and they fail at their job.

Given this is Apple's only word processing alternative which comes with the computer that is what THEY want their customers to use. It is THEIR job to make it work effectively, efficiently and intuitively. That is normally Apple's greatest strength.

"It just works" Steve Jobs.

You said that it is very un-Apple. On the contrary, I think the case could be made that it is very MUCH Apple. Apple's slogan used to be "Think Different". They traditionally did things that were NOT intuitive to those familiar with Windows (which was, and still is the predominant experience) Apple didn't conform to the Windows mindset. They created their own, and had "evangelists" teach customers how to use their products. If you need to take a class to use your computer, then that computer doesn't seem very intuitive to use does it?

 

[MacGizmo]

It is THEIR job to make it work effectively, efficiently and intuitively. That is normally Apple's greatest strength.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe YOU are the one that is ineffective, inefficient and lacking in the ability to learn even the simplest thing? There are millions upon millions of people using this (and other) Apple app(s) with no problem at all — and yet you definitively proclaim it as garbage. A small dose of self-reflection could do you some good.

 

[DeeEss]

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe YOU are the one that is ineffective, inefficient and lacking in the ability to learn even the simplest thing? There are millions upon millions of people using this (and other) Apple app(s) with no problem at all — and yet you definitively proclaim it as garbage. A small dose of self-reflection could do you some good.

Pah! So what? Just because there are millions of people using an application that comes included with the computer doesn't mean it isn't flawed. I'm not lacking in the ability learn a simple thing, that is the lamest insult ever. I learned it here, quickly. The point is I shouldn't have to on something so fundamental and universally accepted. I shouldn't have to perform all these stupid workarounds for something so simple. They created a solution to a problem that didn't exist. But maybe you are lacking the ability to grasp the concept, as simple as it is.

 

[MacGizmo]

I'm not lacking in the ability learn a simple thing, that is the lamest insult ever.

It wasn't meant as an insult. I had hoped it would make you reflect a little.

I learned it here, quickly .The point is I shouldn't have to on something so fundamental and universally accepted.

What IS fundamental and universally accepted is CHANGE. Most people adapt and move on quickly. Feeble-minded and unintelligent people are unable to do that, preferring to make blanket statements of blame on everything other than themselves.

I shouldn't have to perform all these stupid workarounds for something so simple.

"all these?" It's one simple thing. But you're right, you shouldn't have to learn how to do the workaround. You should just learn the new keyboard shortcut for Save As... or stop complaining and perform this obscenely simple workaround to do what you want it to do.

 

[Micky Do]

Why can't Apple just make a normal program with normal functions?

Pages is a diabolical and unproductive dogs breakfast. It's a total mess and failure. It's ridiculously painful to use.

My current annoyance is that almost every program known to man has a "Save As" function. Oh, not at Apple, we're so cool and different and special. We have the Duplicate function, the most annoying convoluted junk UI ever where you have to then navigate several drop down menus and then select a file, and then move the file. But if you do this AFTER you've used your previous document as a template and close it down before you realise, you lose all your work on that previous document entirely!

I just lost a days worth of work because of this utter crap and I can't get it back. I just deleted it and purchased Word.

Go and learn some remedial software design for F sake!

I beg to differ..... While Pages may not have all the features of Word, it has all I need. I find Pages easier and more intuitive to use. I have Word on my old Mac Mini, but seldom use it. On my newer MacBook Air, which I mainly use for work, I only have Pages; it is fine for my needs.

 

[Traverse]

Pages ‘09 was one of Apple’s best applications that I used to write my thesis. The new Pages is still a shadow of that program, but there is a lot of functionality hidden in obscure crevices. It takes time to learn, but I still prefer it to Word.

 

[rexone]

Note that the Save As vs. Duplicate thing doesn't have anything to do with Pages, that's how Apple decided to do things years ago, with everything. Although I understand the theoretical reasoning, I think it's kinda solving a problem that didn't really exist. (The copy/move vs. cut/paste thing is more reasonable, since the advantage is you never have a state where the file is gone.) But calling out Pages specifically is silly.

--Eric

When they dumped 'Save As...' in favour of the baffling 'Export...' was when they did dumb stuff like removed the option for coloured labels and replaced them with dots and removed the option to set 'open in new window' as a system-wide default.
I get they decide to do new stuff but seriously, would it kill them to still retain useful features as an option somewhere?

 

[Starfia]

Sorry about the frustration, DeeEss.

Personally, I never got the hang of Word and have found Pages wonderful since the first version. I agree there are occasional learning curves in all Apple's apps, but I usually find them shallow, momentary and worthwhile. I think that's why I end up liking them so much.

 

[960design]

I wish MS Office was not that used in industry ... it is so widely used I'm forced to use it :/.
I'd rather use pages, much more "Apple"

Why are you forced to use MS Office?
Are you required to turn in incomplete documents for others to more easily modify/edit?

 

[Micky Do]

Pages ‘09 was one of Apple’s best applications that I used to write my thesis. The new Pages is still a shadow of that program, but there is a lot of functionality hidden in obscure crevices. It takes time to learn, but I still prefer it to Word.

I tend to agree. Pages '09 may not have all the features of the latest version (and Word), but it had all I needed, and was easier to use than the latest version (and Word). Some aspects have improved, but some are more complex.... Converting to a Word document for one; now a multi step process. Likewise with highlighting text with background colour.

I'm getting used to the new version, but a year on from making the move on my laptop (2018 MacBook Air, the old version) I still prefer '09, which I still have on my desktop (Early 2009 Mac Mini, running El Capitan, thus cannot run the latest iterations of MacOS and some apps).

One thing that really bugs me is that once documents created with Pages 09 (and Numbers '09) have been updated to the new version they can no longer be opened with the original version. We have compatibility forwards, but not backwards.....

Same for iPhoto, which I liked. I am not alone in despising Photos version 1, but an update to version 1.5 on the Mac Mini is now more than acceptable. I have Photos version 4 on the Air, but seldom use it for photography... I much prefer using a desktop with a decent sized monitor for editing etc.
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Sorry about the frustration, DeeEss.

Personally, I never got the hang of Word and have found Pages wonderful since the first version. I agree there are occasional learning curves in all Apple's apps, but I usually find them shallow, momentary and worthwhile. I think that's why I end up liking them so much.

Me too.
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I wish MS Office was not that used in industry ... it is so widely used I'm forced to use it :/.
I'd rather use pages, much more "Apple"

Open documents using Pages..... Edit using Pages..... Export as a Word document if necessary. Easy peasy.... even I can do it.

I have Office for Mac on my Mac Mini, and did use it quite a bit at first, but seldom do so now. I don't have Office on my Air, but have no problem dealing with Word documents that come my way.

 

[Micky Do]

When they dumped 'Save As...' in favour of the baffling 'Export...' was when they did dumb stuff like removed the option for coloured labels and replaced them with dots and removed the option to set 'open in new window' as a system-wide default.
I get they decide to do new stuff but seriously, would it kill them to still retain useful features as an option somewhere?

It took me a while to sort these out, but I agree they remain baffling, and are now more complex than they should be.

 

[Stephen.R]

When they dumped 'Save As...' in favour of the baffling 'Export...'

That never happened.

Export is unrelated to "Save As".

One more time for the people who apparently didn't read the earlier posts: "Save as" was generally replaced by "Duplicate" because in the context of auto-saving files, "Save As" is non-intuitive.

 

[Micky Do]

That never happened.

Export is unrelated to "Save As".

One more time for the people who apparently didn't read the earlier posts: "Save as" was generally replaced by "Duplicate" because in the context of auto-saving files, "Save As" is non-intuitive.

In effect the same result; creating a Word document from a Pages one. "Export" is a multi step process which is far from intuitive. "Save as" on Pages '09 was way more convenient.

 

[yellow8]

Why are you forced to use MS Office?
Are you required to turn in incomplete documents for others to more easily modify/edit?

That was too easy ;-).
Big companies work in a Citrix (or equivalent) environment with Windows & MS Office. When you deliver a document, it has to be in a .docx format. Also, it happens often that people work on different part of a documents.

You make fun about the quality of my work, but at least I know how enterprises works .

Regarding the open in Pages then Save As Microsoft Word, it sometimes produces errors or glitches in the file. I'm not confident with it.