Panasonic G1 The first micro 4/3rds

[Padaung]

I think they should have designed something that was closer in apparence to a rangefinder.

I'm with you on that, a rangefinder in this format would be awesome, along with some lovely small, fast lenses. Hopefully the Panasonic/Leica arrangement will bring something along these lines.

If they don't try and cram too many pixels in (8 meg?), it should have pretty good high ISO capabilities too. I won't be holding my breath on that though, one feels the marketing department in all companies apart from Nikon has too much of a say in camera design for now.

If such a camera did come along I think that would be my dream travel camera!

 

[Westside guy]

I'm with you on that, a rangefinder in this format would be awesome, along with some lovely small, fast lenses. Hopefully the Panasonic/Leica arrangement will bring something along these lines.

Don't hold your breath. Leica's existing rangefinders are very expensive, and they're going to zealously protect their market. I can't see them putting out a product that could possibly cannibalize those sales.

Hmm, you know - anyone care to speculate on whether the existing Leica rangefinder line might have something to do with why the Panasonic G1 isn't smaller? Leica is part of the 4/3 group, aren't they?

 

[Mr. G4]

Leica is part of the 4/3 group, aren't they?

Well yes. Almost all the Panasonic camera, including DSLR, come with Leica lens and somehow there is no mention of Leica in the release of G1.

Leica is having a press conference this coming Monday, so we'll see what they are going to announce.

I think everyone is missing the point that the most important in the G1 release is not the size of the body but the size of the lens

as this picture shown the size of the 42-150 lens that is 90-300 equivalent to 35mm and look how tiny that thing is.

 

[Mr. G4]

If they don't try and cram too many pixels in (8 meg?), it should have pretty good high ISO capabilities too.

It's the same size sensor as the Olympus E-3 or the Panasonic DMC-L10 and that's the beauty of the Micro 4/3rd compact-bridge size camera with DSLR image sensor.

 

[Mr. G4]

Yeah, that thing looks Lilliputian as it is. And consider that although it's roughly equivalent to an e-420 in size and weight, it packs in a real grip and a large swivel screen.

I'm shocked they didn't just go ahead and throw a movie mode in there to begin with. Sure, it's just a matter of time until they will, but that would have removed the last hurdle for a PnS user who is considering moving up to this camera.

It's coming and it's HD also (look at the mic on top)

 

[ftaok]

as this picture shown the size of the 42-150 lens that is 90-300 equivalent to 35mm and look how tiny that thing is.

That's actually the 14-45 lens. It still is pretty small, though.

That other one ... where did that one come from? They haven't even released the G1 and already there's another one with a real movie mode (AVCHD no less). Is it the same size as the G1?

This could be one of the coolest developments for photo/video enthusiasts.

 

[Abstract]

I don't think every Four-Thirds "member" is also necessarily a mFT member.


Remember, Four-Thirds is an open system, but only if Olympus likes you. Leica may be a part of it, but manufacturers like Sigma may not be anymore (and maybe they don't want to be).

 

[Mr. G4]

That's actually the 14-45 lens. It still is pretty small, though.

That other one ... where did that one come from? They haven't even released the G1 and already there's another one with a real movie mode (AVCHD no less). Is it the same size as the G1?

This could be one of the coolest developments for photo/video enthusiasts.

oops, sorry you're right

Here is the link to the site just scroll down. There is a picture of the 45-200 as well

 

[ftaok]

I think this picture says it all. One of these mFT cameras would be much more desirable than those bulky bridge cameras.

comparision btwn G1 and Panny DMC

 

[CrackedButter]

Don't hold your breath. Leica's existing rangefinders are very expensive, and they're going to zealously protect their market. I can't see them putting out a product that could possibly cannibalize those sales.

Hmm, you know - anyone care to speculate on whether the existing Leica rangefinder line might have something to do with why the Panasonic G1 isn't smaller? Leica is part of the 4/3 group, aren't they?

Leica has nothing to do with m4/3rds. They also don't own a patent on the design of the Rangefinder. People who know the difference will still buy Leica and everybody else who see's the potential in a cheaper rangefinder/SLR hybrid system will buy into it. I would buy an Olympus rangefinder but never would I buy a Leica unless I was very rich as its very expensive. You're talking $6000 just for the body which isn't even full frame.

Have you ever held a Leica M8? Though it is small, it weighs a ton and deliberately so, Leica have no interest in doing what m4/3rds is setting out to do.

 

[Padaung]

Leica has nothing to do with m4/3rds. They also don't own a patent on the design of the Rangefinder. People who know the difference will still buy Leica and everybody else who see's the potential in a cheaper rangefinder/SLR hybrid system will buy into it. I would buy an Olympus rangefinder but never would I buy a Leica unless I was very rich as its very expensive. You're talking $6000 just for the body which isn't even full frame.

Have you ever held a Leica M8? Though it is small, it weighs a ton and deliberately so, Leica have no interest in doing what m4/3rds is setting out to do.

It would be great if Olympus took lead on this. The old OM system was sublime, with fantastically sharp lenses. I own an old Leica CL, which is a kinda small (pocket) rangefinder. It was my travel camera for years, and I loved it to bits (I still have it, but it rarely gets used now). If something digital were to come along to replace it I'd be jumping over the moon with joy. The M8 and Epson R-D1 are just too big (and expensive).

I fear I'm just dreaming, but never mind, no harm in that...

 

[Westside guy]

Leica has nothing to do with m4/3rds. They also don't own a patent on the design of the Rangefinder. People who know the difference will still buy Leica and everybody else who see's the potential in a cheaper rangefinder/SLR hybrid system will buy into it.

Leica doesn't have to hold any patents - I wasn't even thinking along those lines. However as one of the members of the 4/3 alliance (and certainly being THE prestige name among the members) they'll carry a lot of weight, if they so desire. If they said "don't make this as small as one of our rangefinders, or we're out of the 4/3 alliance", Olympus and Panasonic would have to listen.

You can say "People who know the difference will still buy Leica", and there is some truth to that - at least with some folks. But I think there are also people with money that would see a rangefinder-sized m4/3 camera with Leica glass and say "hey, remind me why was I going to spend $6k for a Leica rangefinder?"

Anyway, that's all just idle speculation on my part, obviously. And if Olympus or Panasonic do come out with a rangefinder sized m4/3 camera, that'll certainly show that I'm wrong. But it just seems weird that the first m4/3 camera wasn't smaller.

BTW why would it matter if Leica is/isn't explicitly part of m4/3 rather than 4/3? The lenses are compatible either way, aren't they?

 

[CrackedButter]

Leica doesn't have to hold any patents - I wasn't even thinking along those lines. However as one of the members of the 4/3 alliance (and certainly being THE prestige name among the members) they'll carry a lot of weight, if they so desire. If they said "don't make this as small as one of our rangefinders, or we're out of the 4/3 alliance", Olympus and Panasonic would have to listen.

You can say "People who know the difference will still buy Leica", and there is some truth to that - at least with some folks. But I think there are also people with money that would see a rangefinder-sized m4/3 camera with Leica glass and say "hey, remind me why was I going to spend $6k for a Leica rangefinder?"

Anyway, that's all just idle speculation on my part, obviously. And if Olympus or Panasonic do come out with a rangefinder sized m4/3 camera, that'll certainly show that I'm wrong. But it just seems weird that the first m4/3 camera wasn't smaller.

BTW why would it matter if Leica is/isn't explicitly part of m4/3 rather than 4/3? The lenses are compatible either way, aren't they?

My point was that they can't do anything to protect their market, patents was the wrong word but you made it sound like they owned the market artificially. Anyway...

The lenses are compatible with an adapter, you can use the 4/3rds lens variant on a m4/3rd body but not the other way around. Besides, Panasonic call the shots since the Leica cameras under 4/3rds are just rebadged Panasonic cameras, they license their name and design of the lenses. Panasonic do the manufacturing. Leica definitely cater to a different market.

Panasonic have stated they could have gone smaller with the design but kept it familiar to new users.

 

[Mr. G4]

The lenses are compatible with an adapter, you can use the 4/3rds lens variant on a m4/3rd body but not the other way around.

There are doubt about that now...since not all 4/3rd lens can do contrast detection for the AF...if you want to use "legacy" lens it's only possible in manual. So we have to wait and see.

 

[CrackedButter]

There are doubt about that now...since not all 4/3rd lens can do contrast detection for the AF...if you want to use "legacy" lens it's only possible in manual. So we have to wait and see.

Yes, saying that, I've only seen one lens from 4/3rds attached to the G1 via the adapter. The lens was the Leica 25mm.

 

[Westside guy]

There are doubt about that now...since not all 4/3rd lens can do contrast detection for the AF...if you want to use "legacy" lens it's only possible in manual. So we have to wait and see.

I had to smile at the use of the word "legacy" in this context, given that the 4/3 system is all of a handful of years old.

 

[neonart]

This is a unique product that will attract new users who consider DSLRs too big, but want better quality photos than a PnS. The only other cameras available that comes close is the E-420/410, but still this is smaller especially when you add the lens to the equation.

Having said all that, as a fan of the 4/3 system, I dont think this really matters all that much to true photo enthusiasts. Most non-4/3 users will already have an investment in lenses, and four thirds users will probably prefer an E-420 that needs no adapter if they seek a more portable camera.

I can imagine how silly one of these will look with the 14-50 f2.8 Leica lens given it's size!

On another note, the viefinder idea is pretty cool if it can convince the old skool folks. But again, this won't matter to a new user coming from the point and shoot world.

 

[ftaok]

This is a unique product that will attract new users who consider DSLRs too big, but want better quality photos than a PnS. The only other cameras available that comes close is the E-420/410, but still this is smaller especially when you add the lens to the equation.

Having said all that, as a fan of the 4/3 system, I dont think this really matters all that much to true photo enthusiasts. Most non-4/3 users will already have an investment in lenses, and four thirds users will probably prefer an E-420 that needs no adapter if they seek a more portable camera.

I respectfully disagree about current 4/3rds users (take my opinion with a grain of salt since I am not a 4/3rds user). I'm thinking that a portion of 4/3rds users that would like a smaller camera would consider a m4/3 model. I think that the AVCHD could be the key. There are many times that I would love to shoot photos and video at an event, but I have to pick and choose. Having a quality camera, like a m4/3, means that I don't have to choose.

Granted, if they add AVCHD to a regular 4/3rds SLR, this takes away from the attractiveness of the m4/3 system. I'm just hoping that Canon eventually adds an AVCHD mode to the Rebel line. I figure I have about 2 years before I start looking to upgrade from miniDV to AVHCD.

 

[Mr. G4]

I had to smile at the use of the word "legacy" in this context, given that the 4/3 system is all of a handful of years old.

So painfully true

I can imagine how silly one of these will look with the 14-50 f2.8 Leica lens given it's size!

On another note, the viefinder idea is pretty cool if it can convince the old skool folks. But again, this won't matter to a new user coming from the point and shoot world.

Actually if you look closely there is a viewfinder except that there is no mirror to reflect the image but instead it's a small screen that you look into it.

How about this picture?

 

[neonart]

So painfully true



Actually if you look closely there is a viewfinder except that there is no mirror to reflect the image but instead it's a small screen that you look into it.

How about this picture?

It's the new viewfinder Im talking about. It's awesome new technology, but people who want to look through the actual lens may be put off by it.

It's the first time that type of viewfinder has ever been used in a consumer product. Panasonic has been using it in pro video cameras for some time.

 

[Westside guy]

It's the new viewfinder Im talking about. It's awesome new technology, but people who want to look through the actual lens may be put off by it.

It's the first time that type of viewfinder has ever been used in a consumer product. Panasonic has been using it in pro video cameras for some time.

I must be missing something - electronic viewfinders have been around for years in the "not quite SLR" segment of the market (I remember being put off by them way back in 2003, when I was trying to decide whether or not to get a digital SLR for the first time). Or are you referring to some other aspect of the viewfinder?

 

[cube]

It's a LCOS viewfinder. That's a first in a consumer product.

 

[Mr. G4]

I must be missing something - electronic viewfinders have been around for years in the "not quite SLR" segment of the market (I remember being put off by them way back in 2003, when I was trying to decide whether or not to get a digital SLR for the first time). Or are you referring to some other aspect of the viewfinder?

You must be confused viewfinder and liveview.

As you can see in this picture there is viewfinder and the lcd screen

As of today the true liveview is only available on the E-330 the first ever to have liveview and one of the latest Sony Alpha (don't remember which model). Other DSLR that have liveview are painfully slow.

 

[neonart]

Here is an article that explains the new viewfinder technology used in the G1.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCG1/DMCG1A.HTM

It's about 1/2 page down after "live view".

Live view is through the LCD, where this new viewfinder does the same but with newer, faster, higher resolution technology.


BTW, the DMC-L1 also incorporated true live view. The E-330 and L1 where based on the same internal platform.

 

[Westside guy]

You must be confused viewfinder and liveview.

No, if you look at what I quoted (from neonart's post), he said "viewfinder" and I said "viewfinder". I've shot with SLRs for 20 years, and I know what a viewfinder is.

Electronic viewfinders on cameras are not new. This may have some nifty new tech; but the idea has been around for years. Back (a year or two) before I owned a D70, I thought about buying an Olympus E-10 (or was it E-20?) - one of the selling points for the Olympus camera was that, unlike many of its contemporary competitors, it had a true SLR-style viewfinder. The competitors mostly relied on either electronic viewfinders or else P&S style "live view".