MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[mikas]

I have today ordered both of those x4 cards, the Wings and the Cryo one. And a cheap DeLock too from my local reseller. I allready have two Kingston adapters, both in use (HyperX Predator and SM951). But I wanted to try those higher end ones too. DeLock was an accident, I just was too anxient at the time of purchasing Samsung 970 for my Mac Pro.

I'd only want/need Highpoint or Amfeltec if the IOPS, latency and access times would be much better too, something like accordingly the increase in continuous transfer speed numbers. Are they better there too, if equipped with more one blade?

I think my present _continuous_ speeds are quite enough allready for me (1000+MBps with AHCI M.2). I probably wouldn't mind lessening the latencies and seek times even more though. And increase the IOPS at the same time.

 

[Harry322]

So, with the news that 10.14.1 may come with native NVMe firmware support, can someone advise me on how to make the most of this?

I currently am on a 4,1 > 5,1 Mac Pro booting from a Samsung SSUAX 1TB ACHI blade on a Lycom DT120 PCIe Card.

If I upgraded to a pair of 1 TB 970 pro NVMe blades (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_Q2LVBbPQPTED9) in RAID 0 mode on this highpoint card (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W71K4Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_t3LVBb5BH22G4), would I see a noticeable improvement in speed?

I would put the new 2 TB array in Slot #2 (16x). Would this give me the maximum speed?

Thanks in advance for any expertise the community can extend my way!

 

[h9826790]

If I upgraded to a pair of 1 TB 970 pro NVMe blades (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_Q2LVBbPQPTED9) in RAID 0 mode on this highpoint card (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W71K4Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_t3LVBb5BH22G4), would I see a noticeable improvement in speed?

What speed? sequential speed? or random 4K speed?

Use it for what? video editing? Photoshop? something else?

Since the only new function in the latest firmware only make NVMe booting native. NVMe support (as data drive) is native for a while already. I assume you mean "faster boot drive", in this case, the answer is NO. (regardless if you can boot from RAID 0 or not in 10.14.1).

 

[handheldgames]

So, with the news that 10.14.1 may come with native NVMe firmware support, can someone advise me on how to make the most of this?

I currently am on a 4,1 > 5,1 Mac Pro booting from a Samsung SSUAX 1TB ACHI blade on a Lycom DT120 PCIe Card.

If I upgraded to a pair of 1 TB 970 pro NVMe blades (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_Q2LVBbPQPTED9) in RAID 0 mode on this highpoint card (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W71K4Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_t3LVBb5BH22G4), would I see a noticeable improvement in speed?

I would put the new 2 TB array in Slot #2 (16x). Would this give me the maximum speed?

Thanks in advance for any expertise the community can extend my way!

Yes... slot #1 or slot #2 is the best location for this card. You should hit > 6000 mb/sec with your raid 0 in those slots.

 

[Harry322]

Thanks for the quick update guys - although there seems to be some disagreement over whether I'd see any significant improvement.

To clarify: yes, I meant as a Boot Drive. In terms of measuring speed, I intentionally left the question open ended, since I'm more concerned with real world performance as opposed to benchmarks.

We have 3 Mac Pros that are all used for video editing. The idea of a boot drive reaching > 6000 mb/sec on a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot is tantalizing.

But am I to understand that I cannot boot from a RAID 0 on Mojave - thus rendering the highpoint card useless? Is there any way to achieve blazing fast NVMe speeds, 2 TB of storage, AND Mojave boot compatibility?

Thanks again!

 

[wulai]

I want to know if the intel 750 can be used on Mac Pro5，1

 

[AidenShaw]

Sorry tsialex .. you are correct 512kb . . I didn't get much sleep last night, I was up 'til 2:30 am PMing with you

It's "B", not "kb". Five hundred and twelve bytes, not 524,288 bits.

For the most part, modern disks have either 512 byte sectors or 4096 byte sectors exposed to the OS. Most of the 4096 byte sector disks can accept OS requests for 512 byte reads/writes, and extract or merge the reads/writes into the larger sectors. There's usually some performance benefit to using the 4Ki sectors.

SSDs use larger blocks internally, but it's usually hidden from the user. Sometimes you can get better performance by using IOs that use the native cluster sizes and are aligned on the native cluster boundaries - but often too much work for the benefit.

Some drives can be reformatted to support other sector sizes - but Apple OSX, Windows and Linux don't commonly support that.

 

[handheldgames]

Thanks for the quick update guys - although there seems to be some disagreement over whether I'd see any significant improvement.

To clarify: yes, I meant as a Boot Drive. In terms of measuring speed, I intentionally left the question open ended, since I'm more concerned with real world performance as opposed to benchmarks.

We have 3 Mac Pros that are all used for video editing. The idea of a boot drive reaching > 6000 mb/sec on a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot is tantalizing.

But am I to understand that I cannot boot from a RAID 0 on Mojave - thus rendering the highpoint card useless? Is there any way to achieve blazing fast NVMe speeds, 2 TB of storage, AND Mojave boot compatibility?

Thanks again!

Raid 0 is not bootable on modern macOS versions.

If you have the highpoint, get add a 3rd nvme drive to boot macOs along side of your 2tb raid 0.

Slot 3 or 4 is limited to 1500 mb/sec
Slot 1 or 2 can achieve > 6000 mb/sec for your raid 0. A single 970 pro boot disk can hit > 3200 mb/sec. (not at the same time)
[doublepost=1539219913][/doublepost]

I want to know if the intel 750 can be used on Mac Pro5，1
View attachment 793906

Yes... but it will be capped at 1500 mb/sec.

 

[MIKX]

AidenShaw

I stand corrected AGAIN.

MIKX homework = bytes - kilobytes - megabytes - gigabytes - terabytes. . . . .. .

 

[AidenShaw]

MIKX homework = bytes - kilobytes - megabytes - gigabytes - terabytes. . . . .. .

MIKX homework = bytes - kilobytes - kibibytes - megabytes - mebibytes - gigabytes - gibibytes - terabytes - tebibytes. . . . ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte

 

[PowerMike G5]

Thanks for the quick update guys - although there seems to be some disagreement over whether I'd see any significant improvement.

To clarify: yes, I meant as a Boot Drive. In terms of measuring speed, I intentionally left the question open ended, since I'm more concerned with real world performance as opposed to benchmarks.

We have 3 Mac Pros that are all used for video editing. The idea of a boot drive reaching > 6000 mb/sec on a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot is tantalizing.

But am I to understand that I cannot boot from a RAID 0 on Mojave - thus rendering the highpoint card useless? Is there any way to achieve blazing fast NVMe speeds, 2 TB of storage, AND Mojave boot compatibility?

Thanks again!

The >6000MB/s speed you are referring to doesn't' matter for a boot drive. For a media scratch disk or source drive, then yes because you are using it's sequential read/write speed. For a boot drive, it's about the smaller random access speed.

So if you plan to hold your master/original media on the ssd, then pay attention to the seq speed. For a media cache drive or boot drive, the IOPS speed is what matters.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Isnt there some highpoint card that can do some crazy 13,000MB/sec transfer? One of these?

With the new 10.14.1 bootrom, are any o of these bootable where you could stack say 4 of the Samsung 970 2TB cards into a single 8TB drive?

http://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/CS-product_nvme.htm

These purportedly have boot support:

http://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7102-overview.htm
http://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7110-overview.htm

 

[tsialex]

Isnt there some highpoint card that can do some crazy 13,000MB/sec transfer? One of these?

You can't have more than around 5900MB/s on a Mac Pro 5,1 with 4 SSDs, you are limited to PCIe 2.0 x16 real world speeds.

You can get around 12000MB/s with 4 SSDs on a PCIe 3.0 x16 system.

With the new 10.14.1 bootrom, are any o of these bootable where you could stack say 4 of the Samsung 970 2TB cards into a single 8TB drive?

http://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/CS-product_nvme.htm

Yes, Amfeltec Squid or HighPoint SSD7101A.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Nice, so have there been any reviews between the Squid and the 7101? Is either particularly faster/quieter/less hassle working in a 5,1?

I know fans on non-apple cards always tend to be a crap shoot on if they behave normally/quietly, or just work perpetually in jet engine mode.

I guess it's this one that does 4 sticks:
http://amfeltec.com/products/pci-express-gen-3-carrier-board-for-4-m-2-ssd-modules/

http://barefeats.com/hard220.html

vs

http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7101a-overview.htm

https://www.amazon.com/High-Point-S...1539277617&sr=8-1&keywords=highpoint+ssd7101A


I couldnt find a price on the Amfeltec so maybe it's not out yet and renders the question moot.

 

[tsialex]

Nice, so have there been any reviews between the Squid and the 7101? Is either particularly faster/quieter/less hassle working in a 5,1?

I know fans on non-apple cards always tend to be a crap shoot on if they behave normally/quietly, or just work perpetually in jet engine mode.

I guess it's this one that does 4 sticks:
http://amfeltec.com/products/pci-express-gen-3-carrier-board-for-4-m-2-ssd-modules/

http://barefeats.com/hard220.html

vs

http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7101a-overview.htm

https://www.amazon.com/High-Point-S...1539277617&sr=8-1&keywords=highpoint+ssd7101A


I couldnt find a price on the Amfeltec so maybe it's not out yet and renders the question moot.

Both cards have some fan noise. Squid is the oldest, two years on the market if I remember correctly.
[doublepost=1539278982][/doublepost]MacRumors topics:

Amfeltec x16 PCIe with 4 SSDs: 5900+ MB/s

Highpoint 7101A - PCIe 3.0 SSD performance for the cMP

 

[Harry322]

So, to get the absolute best performance on a Boot Drive (single blade NVMe), I would go with a Samsung 970 Pro and the Highpoint 7101A?

Assuming this is correct, I have two followup questions:

1. With SINGLE blade performance, how big of an advantage is the Highpoint 7101A over a single M2 carrier like the Angelbird PX1? Will I notice the difference between these 2 cards?

2. I see that Samsung produces a 2TB version of the 970 Pro, but I can't seem to find it online. Is this model readily available? Or will I need to settle for a 2 TB 970 EVO? (How big of a difference is there between the Pro and EVO)?

Thanks again for all the great advice.

 

[tsialex]

So, to get the absolute best performance on a Boot Drive (single blade NVMe), I would go with a Samsung 970 Pro and the Highpoint 7101A?

Assuming this is correct, I have two followup questions:

1. With SINGLE blade performance, how big of an advantage is the Highpoint 7101A over a single M2 carrier like the Angelbird PX1? Will I notice the difference between these 2 cards?

2. I see that Samsung produces a 2TB version of the 970 Pro, but I can't seem to find it online. Is this model readily available? Or will I need to settle for a 2 TB 970 EVO? (How big of a difference is there between the Pro and EVO)?

Thanks again for all the great advice.

Single SSD on a Wings PX1 tops at 1500MB/s, 3200MB/s for SSD7101A.

Can’t answer 2nd question.

 

[Harry322]

Single SSD on a Wings PX1 tops at 1500MB/s, 3200MB/s for SSD7101A.

Can’t answer 2nd question.

That's super helpful. Thank you so much!

 

[Harry322]

I am contemplating pulling the trigger on the Highpoint 7101A and a 2TB 970 EVO. Just to clarify a few more points:

1. This combo would be the fastest 2TB boot option currently available for Mojave, correct? (A 970 Pro would be faster, but doesn't currently offer a 2TB option)

2. If I installed my existing ACHI blade (1TB SSUAX) on the new highpoint card alongside the 2TB 970 EVO, would there be any penalty when using both drives simultaneously? I'd be using them as individual disks - not RAIDED or connected in any way.

3. Let's say I use the above-scenario. If the SSUAX were to be a scratch disk for my Adobe CC apps, would it interfere in any way with the speed of the 970 EVO, which would house the OS and applications?

 

[tsialex]

I am contemplating pulling the trigger on the Highpoint 7101A and a 2TB 970 EVO. Just to clarify a few more points:

1. This combo would be the fastest 2TB boot option currently available for Mojave, correct? (A 970 Pro would be faster, but doesn't currently offer a 2TB option)

Correct.

2. If I installed my existing ACHI blade (1TB SSUAX) on the new highpoint card alongside the 2TB 970 EVO, would there be any penalty when using both drives simultaneously? I'd be using them as individual disks - not RAIDED or connected in any way.

You can't install Apple SSDs on a standard socket, pinout is different. There is a adaptor, but is so cumbersome that is used only to recover data. Forget this.

3. Let's say I use the above-scenario. If the SSUAX were to be a scratch disk for my Adobe CC apps, would it interfere in any way with the speed of the 970 EVO, which would house the OS and applications?

You can't use the SSUAX, but you can use any other standard AHCI PCIe SSD without any penalty.

You can use two 970PRO at the maximum performance possible simultaneously.

 

[Harry322]

You can't use the SSUAX, but you can use any other standard AHCI PCIe SSD without any penalty.

You can use two 970PRO at the maximum performance possible simultaneously.

OK, that's great to hear. So essentially, as long as it's a standard ACHI or NVMe blade, I can use up to 4 of them on the highpoint card with absolutely no penalty. And this applies to booting, normal operation, rendering etc.? No interference or penalty for simultaneous use?

Each blade would have its own dedicated 4x lanes of the total 16x slot?

 

[tsialex]

OK, that's great to hear. So essentially, as long as it's a standard ACHI or NVMe blade, I can use up to 4 of them on the highpoint card with absolutely no penalty.

You are limited by the PCIe 2.0 X16 bandwidth. With just two 970PRO you top the available bandwidth, around 6200MB/s.

Two, three or four, you will get 6200MB/s. With a PC that have PCIe 3.0 X16, you get a more than 12000MB/s. Mac Pro shows his age here.

And this applies to booting, normal operation, rendering etc.? No interference or penalty for simultaneous use?

3200MB/s to one 970PRO and 6200MB/s to two, three or four. Two works without any penalty.

Each blade would have its own dedicated 4x lanes of the total 16x slot?

Yes, the PLX switch provides 4 lanes to each SSD, but you are limited to the total throughput of PCIe 2.0 x16.

 

[Harry322]

You are limited by the PCIe 2.0 X16 bandwidth. With just two 970PRO you top the available bandwidth, around 6200MB/s.

Two, three or four, you will get 6200MB/s. With a PC that have PCIe 3.0 X16, you get a more than 12000MB/s. Mac Pro shows his age here.



3200MB/s to one 970PRO and 6200MB/s to two, three or four. Two works without any penalty.


Yes, the PLX switch provides 4 lanes to each SSD, but you are limited to the total throughput of PCIe 2.0 x16.

Fantastic. Makes sense. Thanks so much!

 

[MisterBiro]

Has anyone else tried this NVMe drive in a Mac Pro 4,1 -> 5,1:

It's a Samsung MZ-VLB2560, PM981, 256GB.

I tried this in a Lycom DT-120 adapter, however it doesn't seem to work... Although it's seen in System Information and appears to mount (is visible as a mounted drive and in Disk Utility) trying to format it is generally unsuccessful.

If formatting as HFS+ it works ~50% of the time, and I've only had it format successfully as APFS once, the rest it just hangs on 'Creating APFS partition'.

And of course, I can't install macOS on it for reasons likely related to the above, essentially if you try and boot from it the system goes into a boot loop, kernel panicking after a few seconds.

I've tried the card in all PCIe slots, and have removed USB 3 card, leaving only this and a flashed Radeon 7970 (so I can get boot screens while testing).

My machine is a 4,1 -> 5,1 w/ 2x 3.33GHz X5680's and 64GB of matched Hynix RAM. Currently with a flashed 7970 in it for testing.

Edit: I've ordered a kyroM.2 from Amazon to try the drive in that, although I'm not terribly hopeful.

Edit 2: Firmware is 140.0.0.0

 

[handheldgames]

Has anyone else tried this NVMe drive in a Mac Pro 4,1 -> 5,1:

It's a Samsung MZ-VLB2560, PM981, 256GB.

I tried this in a Lycom DT-120 adapter, however it doesn't seem to work... Although it's seen in System Information and appears to mount (is visible as a mounted drive and in Disk Utility) trying to format it is generally unsuccessful.

If formatting as HFS+ it works ~50% of the time, and I've only had it format successfully as APFS once, the rest it just hangs on 'Creating APFS partition'.

And of course, I can't install macOS on it for reasons likely related to the above, essentially if you try and boot from it the system goes into a boot loop, kernel panicking after a few seconds.

I've tried the card in all PCIe slots, and have removed USB 3 card, leaving only this and a flashed Radeon 7970 (so I can get boot screens while testing).

My machine is a 4,1 -> 5,1 w/ 2x 3.33GHz X5680's and 64GB of matched Hynix RAM. Currently with a flashed 7970 in it for testing.

Edit: I've ordered a kyroM.2 from Amazon to try the drive in that, although I'm not terribly hopeful.

Edit 2: Firmware is 140.0.0.0

Reseat the ssd in the m.2 adapter. If it doesn’t get any more stable, return it to the vendor you purchased it from

The lycon adapter probably is not your problem.