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Sonnet made some very weird design choices here, starting with no support for dual side M.2 blades and the length of the card.

View attachment 835038

Seems that the blades don't have a heatsink, with only the PCIe switch having one. If so, the fan will have to move much more air, with more noise and less durability. I don't like it.

Maybe the length of the card was intended for folks to put it in Slot 1 in the cMP and not be obscured by an AMD 580 gfx card above in order to use the faster pci bus. That would be the only reason that would make sense. But one world still loose a pci Slot with a Dual gfx card in Slot #2.
Nahh - sorry sonnet - I stay with my crest card.
 
Maybe the length of the card was intended for folks to put it in Slot 1 in the cMP and not be obscured by an AMD 580 gfx card above in order to use the faster pci bus. That would be the only reason that would make sense. But one world still loose a pci Slot with a Dual gfx card in Slot #2.
Nahh - sorry sonnet - I stay with my crest card.
Personally, I think the length of the card was intended to keep the heat of the PCIe switch away from the more heat sensitive components on the board as well as the m.2's. From the pictures that someone posted above it also appears they are using the bottom of the card as a heatsink to spread the heat out. That has just speculation and I can't be sure how it will perform until someone gets around to testing it. I agree that some things don't make sense such as lack of support for double sided m.2's and Mac OS restrictions on the card when in reality it should be restrictions on the use of NVMe in a classic Mac Pro as we already know. I'm still hopeful that the card won't disappoint but if it does we still have the Highpoint 7101A, which is in my opinion the king of quad m.2 carriers at the moment for our machines. I would like to see the heatsink off of the switch so we can see if it's using a PLX chip and specifically what version. I'm very curious.
 
Seems weird that they don't support dual side M.2 blades. My SM951-AHCI are dual sided, for example.

Maybe it is like the KryoM.2 card where the blade is sandwiched between thermal pads. Thats great to help prevent cards from getting flexed when thermal pads are only present on the top side, but might prevent compatibility or adequate cooling for double sided blades.

Looking at the picture, it looks like there is a thermal pad under the blades. Maybe a heat sink is included that completes the "sandwich" under the shroud.

What I don't like is the card is so long it is going to restrict airflow into any GPU below it.
[doublepost=1556895281][/doublepost]
Maybe the length of the card was intended for folks to put it in Slot 1 in the cMP and not be obscured by an AMD 580 gfx card above in order to use the faster pci bus. That would be the only reason that would make sense. But one world still loose a pci Slot with a Dual gfx card in Slot #2.
Nahh - sorry sonnet - I stay with my crest card.

Any other slot than slot 2 would cripple the card though.
 
Noted that on Sonnet's web page they're very careful to state that they only support macOS booting from a SINGLE SSD. No RAIDed boot volumes I guess.
 
Sonnet made some very weird design choices here, starting with no support for dual side M.2 blades and the length of the card.

Seems that the blades don't have a heatsink, with only the PCIe switch having one. If so, the fan will have to move much more air, with more noise and less durability. I don't like it.
There appears to be something under each of the SSDs? Maybe heat sinks? Maybe the reason they don't support dual side M.2 blades?

As for the length, I guess they decided that since a minimum length would be a couple inches short of full length, that they should go all the way and get that full length support feature.
[doublepost=1556907260][/doublepost]
Noted that on Sonnet's web page they're very careful to state that they only support macOS booting from a SINGLE SSD. No RAIDed boot volumes I guess.
If you can make a raided boot volume in macOS, then there's no reason you couldn't do that with this. It would be like a fusion drive where the boot loader is stored on a separate partition on a single drive and loads macOS from the raid drive?
 
Here is the manual
Mmmm nice heat sink on the top of the SSD's. It works with Samsung 970 pro (confirmed by the rep)

Interesting layout and not as terrible as initially suspected. Almost seems like a massive PX1 meshed with 7101A with that cover design. Hopefully works for some people looking for a solution, but will likely pass at this time. I'll keep an eye on prices and if it's under $250 may consider at some point.

FYI, page 2 looks like they messed up number placement.
 
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I was about to place an order when I saw a big no no:
"Please note that in some cases it may be necessary for you to hold the Option key during start and restart, and then select the startup disk attached to the Sonnet card.

Windows:
Sonnet M2 4X4 PCIE DOES NOT SUPPORT BOOTING in computers running Windows"
 
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There appears to be something under each of the SSDs? Maybe heat sinks? Maybe the reason they don't support dual side M.2 blades?

Seems just a big thermal pad.
[doublepost=1556913003][/doublepost]
I was about to place an order when I saw a big no no:
"Please note that in some cases it may be necessary for you to hold the Option key during start and restart, and then select the startup disk attached to the Sonnet card.

Windows:
Sonnet M2 4X4 PCIE DOES NOT SUPPORT BOOTING in computers running Windows"
I saw that too, seems weird that they need it, no go with non Mac EFI GPUs. I never had anything like that with SSD7101-A.
 
I'll definitely stay with my SSD7101-A, I did not like the limitations of
FUS-SSD-4X4-E3, but more options are always welcome, maybe now HighPoint will lower the price of SSD7101-A/7102.

Seems that the need of Mac EFI GPU, for BootPicker, is a big no-no.
 
I'll definitely stay with my SSD7101-A, I did not like the limitations of
FUS-SSD-4X4-E3, but more options are always welcome, maybe now HighPoint will lower the price of SSD7101-A/7102.

Seems that the need of Mac EFI GPU, for BootPicker, is a big no-no.
I am still waiting for the drivers development for OSX on the 7102, but there is no progress yet. Plus it is not compatible with Windows 7. Is 7101-A compatible with Win7?
 
I am still waiting for the drivers development for OSX on the 7102, but there is no progress yet. Plus it is not compatible with Windows 7. Is 7101-A compatible with Win7?
The problem here is Windows 7 NVMe support. You can't boot W7 from NVMe with a standard install, only with a slipstreamed one. With a slipstreamed W7 install, you can boot a NVMe blade, but not one that needs special NVMe drivers like recent Samsung blades.

You can use SSD7101-A + AHCI + Windows 7.
 
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I was about to place an order when I saw a big no no:
"Please note that in some cases it may be necessary for you to hold the Option key during start and restart, and then select the startup disk attached to the Sonnet card.
It says "in some cases". I think the cases where this is required for the Sonnet would be identical to the cases for the Amfeltec or Highpoint because I can't imagine why this would happen with one card and not the others. Maybe this only happens when you reset the nvram? Do any of these cards have a PCI option rom that affects boot? Is there a PCI device other than the plx bridge chip on these cards? Can bridge chips have PCI option rom? I understand that the Highpoint has some RAID capabilities but I don't know how that works - I think I read it's some kind of special firmware in the pix chip? I would like to see some "lspci -vvx" output for these cards.
 
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It says "in some cases". I think the cases where this is required for the Sonnet would be identical to the cases for the Amfeltec or Highpoint because I can't imagine why this would happen with one card and not the others. Maybe this only happens when you reset the nvram? Do any of these cards have a PCI option rom that affects boot? Is there a PCI device other than the plx bridge chip on these cards? Can bridge chips have PCI option rom? I understand that the Highpoint has some RAID capabilities but I don't know how that works - I think I read it's some kind of special firmware in the pix chip? I would like to see some "lspci -vvx" output for these cards.

Just edited the serial number.

Code:
sudo lspci -vvx -s 5:* >SSD7101-A.vvx.txt; sudo lspci -vvx -s 6:* >>SSD7101-A.vvx.txt
 

Attachments

  • SSD7101-A.vvx.txt
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Code:
sudo lspci -vvx -s 5:* >SSD7101-A.vvx.txt; sudo lspci -vvx -s 6:* >>SSD7101-A.vvx.txt
I don't see any expansion rom. If it really does RAID then it's all done inside the PEX chip. I would like to see the Windows Device Manager when RAID is enabled - to see if it only shows a single drive, or all drives. From reading reviews, etc. I don't see any evidence that RAID is done in hardware.
 
Were you using a single blade or had two blades in it? I'm still trying to narrow down why 2 of us can't use the card.

Sorry for delayed response.. I was using 2 blades but one of these was a SSUBX 1TB and the other was a SM951 - both of these blades have AHCI controllers (because I work in Sierra using HFS+ not HS). NVMe blades weren't recognised in Sierra -- now a well known fact -- but at the time I purchased 2 Samsung 960 NVMe blades and I'm pretty sure (85%) I did test them both in a clean install of HS just to find out what was wrong (why they weren't visible in Sierra). To my recollection both drives were visible and useable in HS - but I promptly sold them on eBay as I wasn't interested in upgrading my work flows/working environment to HS at that point in time. I use dual X5680's in a mid-2010 (5,1) Mac Pro release. Hope this helps in your "isolation testing quest".
[doublepost=1557123358][/doublepost]
Sonnet made some very weird design choices here, starting with no support for dual side M.2 blades and the length of the card.
View attachment 835039 View attachment 835038


Seems that the blades don't have a heatsink, with only the PCIe switch having one. If so, the fan will have to move much more air, with more noise and less durability. I don't like it. Manual shows that the blades have a heatsink, but it's not integrated with the cover, like High Point cards.

That new Sonnet card looks beautiful :) BUT I consider the biggest design flaw in all of them to be the fact that they won't support the width of a 1TB SSUBX - having owned the io-crest and the highpoint i find it aggravating that the spacing will only accomodate 1 from 2 slots on the io-crest and 2 from 4 slots on the Highpoint. It looks like the Sonnet card is no different to the Highpoint card in that respect.

@joevt -- I use the Highpoint SSD7101A in my Mac Pro with SoftRAID - I've never even tested the 'hardware RAID' capability of the Highpoint SSD7101A - I'm not sure it exists - but suffice to say the card works perfectly in a Mac with no additional drivers required - it's just plug and play.
 
Sorry for delayed response.. I was using 2 blades but one of these was a SSUBX 1TB and the other was a SM951 - both of these blades have AHCI controllers (because I work in Sierra using HFS+ not HS). NVMe blades weren't recognised in Sierra -- now a well known fact -- but at the time I purchased 2 Samsung 960 NVMe blades and I'm pretty sure (85%) I did test them both in a clean install of HS just to find out what was wrong (why they weren't visible in Sierra). To my recollection both drives were visible and useable in HS - but I promptly sold them on eBay as I wasn't interested in upgrading my work flows/working environment to HS at that point in time. I use dual X5680's in a mid-2010 (5,1) Mac Pro release. Hope this helps in your "isolation testing quest".
What's a SSUBX? I could only find https://www.amazon.com/Odyson-SSUBX-Replacement-MacBook-2013-2015/dp/B06WGNVGX6 which doesn't look like an M.2 module at all. Are you using an adapter? There are M.2 to M.2 adapters which could let you move the SSUBX so that all M.2 slots are usable but I guess that could get messy.

The Hackintosh community has worked on solutions to get unsupported NVMe SSDs to work in older versions of macOS (starting from macOS 10.11 El Capitan) using patched versions of the existing Apple NVMe driver. A method may need to be adapted so that boot loader injections will not be required (they modify the SSDT which is not possible on a real Mac unless you use a similar boot loader). Maybe the patched version of the driver can be changed to load only for specific NVMe devices so that you can keep the unpatched version of the driver. I would look into creating a kext that sub-classes the patched driver if it's not possible to do what's necessary in just an info.plist (but I think just adding an IOPCIMatch and a higher IOProbeScore might be sufficient).
 
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That new Sonnet card looks beautiful :) BUT I consider the biggest design flaw in all of them to be the fact that they won't support the width of a 1TB SSUBX - having owned the io-crest and the highpoint i find it aggravating that the spacing will only accomodate 1 from 2 slots on the io-crest and 2 from 4 slots on the Highpoint. It looks like the Sonnet card is no different to the Highpoint card in that respect.

No card is designed with 1TB SSBUX models in mind and never will. It's an Apple OEM blade that don't even have a standard M.2 connector.

The real problem with Sonnet FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 is the M.2 connector that only supports single side M.2 blades. Double side blades were common before and will probably become again, with blades with bigger storage - density has it's limits and we are probably near to that with current tech.

It's nice to have yet another option with PLX switches, I hope the price of SSD7101-A/7102 goes down a little with another competitor in the market.
 
The real problem with Sonnet FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 is the M.2 connector that only supports single side M.2 blades. Double side blades were common before and will probably become again, with blades with bigger storage - density has it's limits and we are probably near to that with current tech.
The Sonnet is also limited to 80 mm length devices. The Highpoint supports 110 mm, but I don't know of any 110 mm M.2 devices.
 
The Sonnet is also limited to 80 mm length devices. The Highpoint supports 110 mm, but I don't know of any 110 mm M.2 devices.

Intel had (maybe still has?) some 2TB/4TB TLC models that were 110mm. Samsung enterprise (like PM953) were also 110mm. Very difficult to find modern consumer-based at 110mm, however.
 
I'm making this thread to put together some general info on the blade SSDs that can be used in the Mac Pro. NVMe SSDs can be used as a boot drive in the Mac Pro 5,1 and 6,1 with the latest firmware installed (140.0.0.0.0 for MP5,1). Note that blade SSDs installed in a Mac Pro 5,1 are limited to ~1,500 MB/s unless installed on a PCIe switch card in slot 1 or 2 such as a HighPoint 7101 or Amfeltec Squid that converts the Mac Pro PCIe 2.0 x16 to the PCIe 3.0 x4 needed for full throughput. Also note that 3rd party SSDs have varying compatibility with the Mac and not all listed below may be fully compatible.

macOS NVMe Support:
  • Only Sierra, High Sierra, and Mojave support NVMe drives. Previous versions of macOS won't recognise the NVMe drive.
  • macOS High Sierra and Mojave supports both 4KB / sector and 512 bytes / sector NVMe drives.
  • macOS Sierra supports 4KB / sector drives like Apple OEM and some uncommon Toshiba/OCZ/Intel/WD blades. This post on InsanelyMac lists the blades that work with Sierra and hackintoshes, please note that most of those blades don't work with a Mac Pro at all or work with 750MB/s throughput only. Don't use this list to buy blades for a Mac Pro, it's linked here for information purposes only.
  • Apple support the 1.3 NVMe standard. Any blade that need a special NVMe module/driver won't be supported, seems that's the case with Samsung 970 EVO Plus and some of the Plextor blades.
  • All Samsung consumer blades are 512 bytes / sector and can not be changed to 4KB / sector.
  • To boot from a NVMe drive, you need to upgrade to BootROM to at least 140.0.0.0.0, supplied with MAS Mojave full installers since 10.14.1. 10.14.4 has 141.0.0.0.0 and 10.14.5 will have 144.0.0.0.0.
  • High Sierra boots/works perfectly both 4KB and 512 bytes drives if you have BootROM 140/141/144.0.0.0.0.
  • If you install BootROM 140/141/144.0.0.0.0, Sierra can boot from a 4KB / sector NVMe M.2 blade.
  • You can read about it on the first posts of these two threads:
    1. MP5,1: What you have to do to upgrade to Mojave
    2. MP5,1: BootROM thread
M.2 NVMe and AHCI Blades:
Apple SSDs: Proprietary Apple PCIe adapter needed for Mac Pro 5,1 & older. No adapter needed for Mac Pro 6,1.

SSUAX: Based on Samsung XP941 with UAX controller (S4LN053X01): AHCI
2D MLC
Available in 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 2.0 x2 (128GB, 256GB, 512GB) & PCIe 2.0 x4 (1TB)
Speeds: ~1,000 MB/s read, ~800 MB/s write
Sector size: 4 KBytes per sector
Compatibility status: Good

SSUBX: Based on Samsung SM951 with UBX controller (S4LN058A01): AHCI
2D MLC
Available in 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~1,500 MB/s read, ~1,425 MB/s write
Sector size: 4 KBytes per sector
Compatibility status: Good

SSPOLARIS: Based on Samsung SM961 or PM961 with Polaris controller (S4LP077X01): NVMe
2D & 3D MLC or TLC
Available in 24GB, 32GB, 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~2,700 MB/s read, ~2,350 MB/s write
Sector size: 4 KBytes per sector
Compatibility status: Good

SSPHOTON: Based on Samsung PM971 with Photon controller: NVMe
48-layer MLC
Available in 32GB and ? (LPDDR4 DRAM)
PCIe 3.0 x2 ?
Speeds: 1,500 MB/s read, 900 MB/s write ?
Sector size: 4 KBytes per sector ?
Compatibility status:
Good


Good article on Apple blade SSDs: The Ultimate Guide to Apple’s Proprietary SSDs

Samsung SSDs: M.2 PCIe adapter needed for Mac Pro 5,1. M.2 to proprietary Apple adapter needed for Mac Pro 6,1.

XP941: UAX controller (S4LN053X01): AHCI
2D MLC
Available in 128GB, 256GB, and 512GB
PCIe 2.0 x2 (128GB, 256GB, 512GB) & PCIe 2.0 x4 (1TB)
Speeds: ~1,000 MB/s read, ~800 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

SM951: UBX controller (S4LN058A01): Both AHCI and NVMe versions
2D MLC
Available in 128GB, 256GB, and 512GB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~2,150 MB/s read, ~1,500 MB/s write (512 GB model)
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet (AHCI), Datasheet (NVMe)
Compatibility status (AHCI): Good
Compatibility status: (NVMe): Good

950 PRO: UBX controller (S4LN058A01): NVMe
3D MLC
Available in 256GB and 512GB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~2,500 MB/s read, ~1,500 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: (NVMe): Issues/not compatible

PM961: Polaris controller (S4LP077X01): NVMe
3D TLC
Available in 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~3,000 MB/s read, ~1,500 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

SM961: Polaris controller (S4LP077X01): NVMe
2D & 3D MLC
Available in 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~3,200 MB/s read, ~1,800 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

960 EVO: Polaris controller (S4LP077X01): NVMe
3D TLC
Available in 250GB, 500GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,200 MB/s read, up to 1,900 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

960 PRO: Polaris controller (S4LP077X01): NVMe
2D & 3D MLC
Available in 512GB, 1TB, and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~3,500 MB/s read, ~2,100 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

PM981: Phoenix controller (S4LR020): NVMe
3D TLC (64-layer)
Available in 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~3,500 MB/s read, up to 2,400 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Issues/not compatible

970 EVO: Phoenix controller (S4LR020): NVMe
3D TLC (64-layer)
Available in 250GB, 500GB, 1TB, and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,500 MB/s read, up to 2,500 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

970 EVO Plus: Phoenix controller (S4LR020): NVMe
3D TLC (96-layer)
Available in 250GB, 500GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,500 MB/s read, up to 3,300 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Issues/not compatible

970 PRO: Phoenix controller (S4LR020): NVMe
3D MLC (64-layer)
Available in 512GB and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,500 MB/s read, up to ~3,000 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good


Intel SSDs:
Optane 900p: NVMe
3D XPoint
Available in 280GB and 480GB
PCIe 3.0 x4 Half Height Half Length (HHHL) Add-in-Card.
Speeds: up to 1,500 MB/s (due to PCIe 2.0 bus limitation)
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good
HP SSDs:

EX920: SM2262 controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,200 MB/s read, up to 1,800 MB/s write (1TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good

Toshiba SSDs:

XG5: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,000 MB/s read, up to 2,100 MB/s write (1TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status:

XG5-P: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 1TB and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,000 MB/s read, up to 2,200 MB/s write (2TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status:

XG6: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to ~3,200 MB/s read, up to ~3,000 MB/s write (1TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status:

Western Digital SSDs:

WD Black: Western Digital in-house: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 250GB, 500GB, 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to ~ MB/s read, up to ~ MB/s write (1TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status:

Recommended PCIe adaptors:

Standard PCIe x4 cards (tops at 1500 MB/s)(no switch):

Low cost:

No heatsinks. Be warned, don't use AHCI and NVMe blades without having a heatsink installed, you will have thermal throttling frequently and may cook your blade. (Note: Not as important for Apple proprietary blades which have better thermal management under macOS.)
  • Lycom DT-120
  • For proprietary Apple SSD: generic adapter from eBay (e.g. "2013-2014 Macbook Air SSD PCIe adapter 4X") (no brand)

Medium cost:

All adapters have heatsinks.


PCIe x8 & x16 switch cards (up to ~6200MB/s):

Better performance / higher cost (up to 3,000 MB/s):


Top performance / high cost (tops at 3200 MB/s with one blade, 6200 MB/s with two to four):


Don't buy PCIe adaptors list:

Any card from ASRock/Asus/Gigabyte/MSI that don't have a PCIe 3.0 switch and needs bifurcation, like these cards below:

Aplicata Quad M.2 NVMe SSD PCIe x16 Adapter - bifurcation.
ASRock Ultra Quad - bifurcation.
Asus Hyper M.2 x16 - bifurcation.
Dell Ultra-Speed Drive Quad NVMe M.2 PCIe x16 Card - bifurcation.
GIGABYTE Aorus PCIe x16 M.2 - bifurcation.
GIGABYTE CMT2014 - bifurcation.
GIGABYTE CMT4032 and CMT4034 - bifurcation.
MSI Xpander-Aero - bifurcation
SuperMicro AOC-SLG3-8E2P - fried a Mac Pro.
Synology M2D18 - it's a ~$200 PCIe 2.0 switch card with SATA + M2 that tops at 1500MB/s.​

What reasonable and efficient SSD adapter is good for :-

970 EVO: Phoenix controller (S4LR020): NVMe
3D TLC (64-layer)
Available in 250GB, 500GB, 1TB, and 2TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,500 MB/s read, up to 2,500 MB/s write
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet
Compatibility status: Good


For my Mac Pro 2009.
Can someone give me a link on eBay.ca or amazon.ca?

or what should I search in the field of this card (in shot what do you call this card and what specs do I need the SSD card to work on my Mac Pro) some of the adapters say that it just supports PCIe-AHCI SSD what does that mean.

Sorry anyone could help that would be great !
 
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Scroll down to the "Recommended PCIe adaptors" section in post #1, just past where you copy/pasted the 970 EVO data. There are several options and they do slightly vary by country/location. Personally using a PX1 without issue, but you'll have trouble finding them (discontinued).
 
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