PCs last longer than Macs

[Ethosik]

It's a bad example. You should have used one of the other "dozens" that you obviously are able to find. You can re-state your false equivalency however many times you want, but it is still a false equivalency.

It’s not a bad example. It’s priced such because it’s rugged. If I don’t care about that then it’s priced too high for me. It’s a perfect example.

A lot of people are willing to pay a premium just for macOS alone. I’m one of them. I’m willing to give $500 alone just for macOS. This, I don’t think Mac systems are priced ridiculously.

 

[leapp]

Vaio from 2008 running Windows 11, thus getting more security updates, is more usable than any Mac from 2008. The PC my father built in 2003 is way more usable than a Mac from 2003.
What he says at the end is true. I'd rather have an upgradable Mac, Apple provide at least 5 years of security updates to each OS than a "faster" RAM and SSD.
Lately I've been thinking moving back to PC and Android in the future. I don't know. Apple has lost its charm and especially with iOS 18, considering my Huawei from 2011 was able to do the same things as iOS 18 when it comes to customisation. It even had a dark theme.
I don't know. Lately I feel like Apple products are not worth it anymore. Especially since new iPhones are one year behind of Pro models. Apple is behaving like Samsung lately. The same goes for Macs. I've just lost it. I remember back in 2007-18 I used to love Apple so much and the Keynotes etc, but now I've looked around and realised that PCs are better than Macs and more secure. The pricing is better as well.Nothing still beats the iPad though.

This is especially true since it's so hard to wipe an old mac and reinstall macos. It's a linux beast now. I've done this with several models and there are ALWAYS problems. I've actually given up trying to reinstall macos on a 2010 macbook. Yes, I've used the older ones and the various recovery boots. It's pretty ******.

 

[Piplodocus]

My last Mac outlasted any PC I'd previously had. Still works even though pretty much retired it 2 years ago.

The biggest thing to longevity is OS/security support. Can't run any newer MacOS on it, so may be a security liability, but at least it was Intel so I can run any Windows on it via bootcamp. I guess maybe I'd have to Linux this latest one unless some kinda Windows for ARM bootcamp becomes a thing before it's old.

 

[canoma]

I've used Macintosh computers since 1988 (System 6 anyone? Bueller?) and Windows since 1995. In that time for whatever reason, I've had to call both Apple and Microsoft for support on more than one occasion. I use both. I love both platforms. I still have my 1993 Macintosh Color Classic (which was upgraded to a Mystic version) which doesn't work anymore and my QuickSilver dual 1Ghz G4 (It runs Mac OS 9 like a champ) from 2002. I don't have my first HP that ran Windows 95. I totally loved that machine until I upgraded it to Windows 98. If we're making the smaller/cheaper/faster argument, the Microsoft-based platform won the fight a long time ago. I don't think we're gonna get a Mac version of an nVidia 4090 anytime soon. But even as I type this on an M3 Max Powerbook/Macbook/Mac Book Pro (Who gives a f...) that's plugged into a Dell monitor with an Apple Extended Keyboard II (ADB - to USB - to USB C) I know Apple is probably not going to support this machine after 5-7 years. Yeah, that sucks. That is too soon. Microsoft does a better job of support there. However, Windows 11 does require some horsepower to run well. I don't expect a 10-year-old HP all-in-one to run as well as an Alienware R16 that has an IBM Model M keyboard (Yeah, I'm big on the old-style clicky keyboards) attached to it. Apple is a premium product. Compared to a Raspberry Pi 5, so is a Microsoft product. But I don't expect my 2001 Xbox to run Cyberpunk 2077. Point is, things work 'till the batteries or the whatever that connects to the who gives a f... finally wears out. And that is sad. We get a whole lotta joy out of these machines whether it's games, coding, designing a publication, whatever. Do PCs have a longer shelf life? I don't know. Maybe. My 1962 Blue IBM Selectric Typewriter still works does that count? It really depends upon how well the machine is made, how well it is cared for, and how many things can potentially break within it. Now I'm going back to my Stray kitty cat game. Cheers!

 

[jakey rolling]

I’m willing to give $500 alone just for macOS.

LOL. Yikes. This does explain a lot though.

 

[GuruZac]

Vaio from 2008 running Windows 11, thus getting more security updates, is more usable than any Mac from 2008. The PC my father built in 2003 is way more usable than a Mac from 2003.
What he says at the end is true. I'd rather have an upgradable Mac, Apple provide at least 5 years of security updates to each OS than a "faster" RAM and SSD.
Lately I've been thinking moving back to PC and Android in the future. I don't know. Apple has lost its charm and especially with iOS 18, considering my Huawei from 2011 was able to do the same things as iOS 18 when it comes to customisation. It even had a dark theme.
I don't know. Lately I feel like Apple products are not worth it anymore. Especially since new iPhones are one year behind of Pro models. Apple is behaving like Samsung lately. The same goes for Macs. I've just lost it. I remember back in 2007-18 I used to love Apple so much and the Keynotes etc, but now I've looked around and realised that PCs are better than Macs and more secure. The pricing is better as well.Nothing still beats the iPad though.

iPhones and Apple software and products may be catching up to some of the PCs and Androids in some ways, but nothing Android or PC does or has will catch them up to Apple software and/or products from an integration and user experience in my opinion. I'm not sure what Android or Windows/Linux does or has at this point that Apple doesn't for my usage.

 

[Pedro Passamani]

I think it comes down to OS support, and let's not kid ourselves, Microsoft is way more forgiving on that. You can take a Pentium 4 (the 64-bit ones) PC from 2006 and run Windows 11 on it. Yes, it's not officially supported and it'll be painfully slow, but you can do it.

Even Macs from that same time are better supported on Windows. The Core Solo/Core Duo ones, which are 32-bit machines, can't run anything past Snow Leopard, which hasn't been supported by developers since 9 or 10 years ago. Same thing for Lion, which the early Core 2 Duo ones are stuck on. But, if you install Windows 10 (or 11 on the C2Ds) you can run the lastest versions of stuff like Chrome or Firefox.

Windows 10 is losing support next year, but I'm sure it'll be supported by software developers for many more years after that.

 

[Ethosik]

LOL. Yikes. This does explain a lot though.

I paid $300 for Windows 7 back in the day. And given inflation since then macOS would be cheaper today. And as much as I despise Windows at the moment I would gladly pay a premium just for macOS. A LOT of people do, macOS is a big reason why people buy macs.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

They don’t, not even close, but thanks for playing. A windows PC can’t even keep running optimally for a week without being rebooted.

 

[Ctrlos]

I think it comes down to OS support, and let's not kid ourselves, Microsoft is way more forgiving on that. You can take a Pentium 4 (the 64-bit ones) PC from 2006 and run Windows 11 on it. Yes, it's not officially supported and it'll be painfully slow, but you can do it.

Even Macs from that same time are better supported on Windows. The Core Solo/Core Duo ones, which are 32-bit machines, can't run anything past Snow Leopard, which hasn't been supported by developers since 9 or 10 years ago. Same thing for Lion, which the early Core 2 Duo ones are stuck on. But, if you install Windows 10 (or 11 on the C2Ds) you can run the lastest versions of stuff like Chrome or Firefox.

Windows 10 is losing support next year, but I'm sure it'll be supported by software developers for many more years after that.

Do you need the latest from developers?

I have an old 2006 Macbook I keep on Tiger. Now I wouldn't connect it to the modern internet for one second but as a standalone machine it still runs Scrivener, iDVD, Toast, iMovie, Garageband, Appleworks, iWork '08, iTunes, Growl, Quicksilver and Candybar (to name but a few) without issue. I can enable dev options via Tinkertool and stick widgets on the desktop and Growl is still better than the current MacOS notifications system.

 

[iHorseHead]

iPhones and Apple software and products may be catching up to some of the PCs and Androids in some ways, but nothing Android or PC does or has will catch them up to Apple software and/or products from an integration and user experience in my opinion. I'm not sure what Android or Windows/Linux does or has at this point that Apple doesn't for my usage.

I can think of plenty of things, but those will be coming is iOS 18 and the next release of macOS.
You still can't control your phone through iPad though. Many Android manufacturers allow you to do that.
Windows runs more software, as I pointed out above.
Windows and Androids have more languages supported too.

 

[iHorseHead]

The biggest thing to longevity is OS/security support. Can't run any newer MacOS on it, so may be a security liability

That's what I'm mainly talking about. Apple is dropping software support too fast and it's weird that MacBook Air 2018 isn't supported and iPhone XR will be. Apple should provide security updates at least 5 years. They can afford it.

 

[dmr727]

That's what I'm mainly talking about. Apple is dropping software support too fast and it's weird that MacBook Air 2018 isn't supported and iPhone XR will be. Apple should provide security updates at least 5 years. They can afford it.

Huh? The 2018 MBA can support Sonoma. When will Sonoma stop getting updates - 2026? 2027?

 

[Rychiar]

the PCs in my office become garbage real quick… and all they have to do is run printers. Never see such issues on the Mac’s, many of which last a decade or more.

 

[iHorseHead]

the PCs in my office become garbage real quick… and all they have to do is run printers. Never see such issues on the Mac’s, many of which last a decade or more.

we have plenty of tickets opened about Macs as well, such as speakers, keyboards not working not working etc… A computer is a computer

 

[iHorseHead]

Huh? The 2018 MBA can support Sonoma. When will Sonoma stop getting updates - 2026? 2027?

No.
The latest release will be Sequoia in a couple of months. MBA 2018 will most likely support even W12.

 

[dmr727]

No.
The latest release will be Sequoia in a couple of months. MBA 2018 will most likely support even W12.

You're complaining about security updates. What does that have to do with Sequoia?

 

[iHorseHead]

You're complaining about security updates. What does that have to do with Sequoia?

It'll stop receiving security updates in 2027, while W11 will still be most likely supported. Maybe even W10 by the looks of it.
Once again, what's wrong with wanting security updates last a couple years longer?

 

[Ethosik]

It'll stop receiving security updates in 2027, while W11 will still be most likely supported. Maybe even W10 by the looks of it.
Once again, what's wrong with wanting security updates last a couple years longer?

Windows 10 support ends late 2025.

 

[iHorseHead]

Windows 10 support ends late 2025.

And Windows XP support ended in 2009 at first.
And more and more people are downgrading to Windows 10 so there's a chance that W10 will be another XP.

 

[dmr727]

Once again, what's wrong with wanting security updates last a couple years longer?

Nothing at all, but you said you want security updates for at least 5 years, and it seems that's already the case. By my math, a 2018 MBA should see updates at least until 2026.

 

[Ethosik]

And Windows XP support ended in 2009 at first.
And more and more people are downgrading to Windows 10 so there's a chance that W10 will be another XP.

You shouldn’t plan on a maybe. Microsoft officially has October 2025 as the end of life. I’m working on updating all my clients to Windows 11 as we speak. Will take until August next year to complete.

 

[iHorseHead]

Nothing at all, but you said you want security updates for at least 5 years,

And what's wrong with that considering many Linux distros provide security updates for 5 years?

 

[iHorseHead]

’m working on updating all my clients to Windows 11 as we speak

Our clients aren't upgrading, but new version of Windows usually means new computers anyway. Like when support for Windows 7 ended everyone just got new computers.

 

[Ethosik]

Our clients aren't upgrading, but new version of Windows usually means new computers anyway. Like when support for Windows 7 ended everyone just got new computers.

That’s part of the umbrella term upgrade. Some have recent hardware but still on 10 to be aligned with the rest of the environment. So those will upgrade. Others get new computers as the upgrade.