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Pentax K20D vs. Sony Alpha A330
- Thread starter Shake 'n' Bake
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Worth pointing out: buying lenses used is a very good idea. They tend to come from people who keep them in good condition, and thus 2/3 of my Nikon lens collection is used. That's the other advantage of Canon/Nikon - being the most popular, they have the largest used lens market.
That said, Pentax is the brand to get over Sony - I actually think Pentax holds the price/performance crown, though not necessarily the IQ or feature crown.
I rank manufacturers thusly (in order of top cameras): Nikon/Canon, Pentax(Samsung), Sony, Olympus, Sigma, etc.
That said, Pentax is the brand to get over Sony - I actually think Pentax holds the price/performance crown, though not necessarily the IQ or feature crown.
I rank manufacturers thusly (in order of top cameras): Nikon/Canon, Pentax(Samsung), Sony, Olympus, Sigma, etc.
Well, not like Pentax does. This chart shows that not all vintage Nikon lenses will meter, and some won't even mount. All Pentax mount lenses will mount and meter on all Pentax DSLRS, and with the addition of a $15 adapter, all M42 lenses will too! Pentax has this green button that will enable the camera to meter with any lens mounted onto it, so even lenses made as early as 1938 (when M32 was invented) can work on a Pentax DSLR.
It's not difficult to find top-notch vintage Pentax or M42 lenses on eBay for $10, so I think these lenses are cheap by anyone's definition.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I've misunderstood Nikon's backwards compatibility, but I don't think it's anything like the situation with Pentax.
one way or another, Canon and Nikon are probably more expensive than the OP wants. all the "lesser" companies offer more for less. the difference in (maximum) IQ is irrelevant for the OP.
Nikon's just take a little extra knowledge.
Nikon started making Automatic Indexing (AI) lenses in the mid 1970s, and it is these lenses that are compatible with every high end Nikon body ever made. In recent terms, that means the D3/x/700/300/200/, along with the D1/x/2/x.
Nikon's lower-end film and digital bodies can mount AI and AIS lenses, but they cannot meter with them. The D90, for example, cannot meter with AI/AIS lenses. The D300/700 can. On the film side, the N80 cannot meter with them, but the F90/F100 can.
Only a select number of film bodies can mount non/pre-AI lenses. The last film body to able to do that was the F4, I believe.
Instead of Rockwell, I recommend Nikonians' chart: http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html
Pentax bodies mount, meter, AF, and have anti shake-reduction for all those lenses, which is impressive indeed. The body anti-shake technology is not as good as OIS/VR, but works with everything and is incredibly cheaper, again showing Pentax's advantage in terms of price/performance. My brother owns a K10D, and it is an impressive camera.
Oh, also they can shoot RAW in DNG (and possibly TIFF on newer models? Not sure), which is nifty if you care about that.
Oh, also they can shoot RAW in DNG (and possibly TIFF on newer models? Not sure), which is nifty if you care about that.
LOL. You say "Nikon's just take a little extra knowledge." Sounds to me as though they also require the right combination of camera bodies and lenses.
Well, being a Nikonian, it doesn't seem all that much info to me, but maybe I'm just a gearhead sometimes 
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The F6/5/4/3/2/ can use AI/AIS lenses with metering, just as the D1/2/3/h/x can, along with the D700/300/200/100. Many of Nikon's older compact film bodies can also use them (i.e. the FM2). The same is true for all AF lenses, which are all AIS by design (just as all G lenses are inherently AF-D as well).
The F mount has never changed, just had the lenses for it modified over the years. Remember, if it's an AI lens or newer, it will mount on any Nikon camera, metering aside.
. The F6/5/4/3/2/ can use AI/AIS lenses with metering, just as the D1/2/3/h/x can, along with the D700/300/200/100. Many of Nikon's older compact film bodies can also use them (i.e. the FM2). The same is true for all AF lenses, which are all AIS by design (just as all G lenses are inherently AF-D as well).
The F mount has never changed, just had the lenses for it modified over the years. Remember, if it's an AI lens or newer, it will mount on any Nikon camera, metering aside.
I understand the line of thinking here, but are you honestly going to imply that Pentax and Sony don't have better lenses to move into as people improve?
Once we start talking about buying lenses that cost multiple thousands of dollars, buying a body along with them isn't that big of a deal (I know, I just did it). But Pentax has arguably some of the very best prime lenses available, especially for the price. You'd be hard pressed to top a Pentax 77 f/1.8 FA limited IMO.
FA* and DA* glass is top notch as well! And the FA* line has all the top end teles that most people could ever aspire to own, including 600 mm f/4. Think of FA* as the Pentax answer to Canon's L line, and Nikon's top drawer stuff, and DA* as an APS-C formatted L competitor.
Off the top of my head I know the following lenses are out there for Pentax:
FA* 600 f/4
FA* 300 f/2.8
FA* 28-70 f/2.8
FA* 80-200 f/2.8
FA 85 f/1.4
FA 50 f/1.4
FA 35 f/2
FA 77 f/1.8 limited
FA 43 f/1.9 limited
DA* 200 f/2.8
DA* 16-50 f/2.8
DA* 50-135 f/2.8
DA* 55 f/1.4
DA* 60-250 f/4
DA* 300 f/4
And a whole bunch of others. over 25 million as of 2006 when I bought my Pentax K10D.
SLC
OK, so one can mount Nikkor AI lenses (which came out in 1977) but can not necessarily meter with them. That's quite a limitation, since a light meter is a significant expense. I wish Canon were even as good as Nikon in this regard (Canon EF lenses came out in 1987, and the earlier FD lenses have a different mount).
But Pentax is better: the K-mount came out in 1975, and every single one of those lenses will mount and meter on every single Pentax DSLR: no exceptions. In addition, lenses mounted with any kind of adapter, including M42 lenses, which can date back as far as 1938, will also meter on any and every Pentax DSLR. There is even an adapter that allows Nikkor AI lenses to mount on a Pentax body, and they will all meter too!! That's not even true for Nikon's own camera bodies! You have to admit that's pretty impressive.
And as SLC said, Pentax makes some of the best lenses in the world.
But Pentax is better: the K-mount came out in 1975, and every single one of those lenses will mount and meter on every single Pentax DSLR: no exceptions. In addition, lenses mounted with any kind of adapter, including M42 lenses, which can date back as far as 1938, will also meter on any and every Pentax DSLR. There is even an adapter that allows Nikkor AI lenses to mount on a Pentax body, and they will all meter too!! That's not even true for Nikon's own camera bodies! You have to admit that's pretty impressive.
And as SLC said, Pentax makes some of the best lenses in the world.
But that's sweeping aside or just not mentioning that there are a ton of AI and AIS lenses and plenty of cameras available to fully use them with. Those that own lower end cameras aren't often the type to be aware of those lenses or have the desire to use them, particularly today. If you have that desire, you're as likely as not to be the owner of a D200/300/700, etc.
So what you're saying is, if you want a cheap DSLR and want to buy cheap old lenses that your camera will meter with, then Nikon is not the brand for you?
Well, most other camera makers have changed their mounts, so Nikon is still ahead of most. Pentax is just at the top of the hill. Canon cut off the FD mount (adapters aside), so they don't come close to Nikon's compatibility in that department.
I make the observation that there are plenty of cheap old AF lenses that will work on entry-level Nikon DSLRs, though most won't autofocus on the D40/60/3000/5000. You're in good shape with a D70/80/90.
built in Anti-Shake and backwards lens compability
Just two things that were completely missed here:
1. Sony has built in Anti-Shake (SSS - Super Steady Shot) that works with all the lenses
2. Every Minolta (and 3rd party) AF lens can be used on the Sony A mount, which means an unlimited supply (more choices than Pentax) of all kinds of great and (sometimes cheap) lenses
But whatever you finally take - happy shooting
Just two things that were completely missed here:
1. Sony has built in Anti-Shake (SSS - Super Steady Shot) that works with all the lenses
2. Every Minolta (and 3rd party) AF lens can be used on the Sony A mount, which means an unlimited supply (more choices than Pentax) of all kinds of great and (sometimes cheap) lenses
But whatever you finally take - happy shooting
Pentax has this as well, and the Pentax that the OP is evaluating has weather sealing and a pentaprism viewfinder.
I may be wrong, but I highly doubt that there are more Alpha mount lenses out there than K mount. First because Minolta changed the mount with the advent of Autofocus, meaning that manual focus Minoltas (and third party lenses created for manual focus Minoltas) won't mount without the use of an adaptor. Pentax never changed mounts after the introduction of the K mount, there are manual focus and autofocus K mount lenses out there.
The other thing is that the K mount is non proprietary, Pentax created it, but any manufacturer is welcome to use it. Think of it as the Linux of camera mounts. What that means is that there are other name brands that have used the K mount over the years, Samsung most recently, but other companies such as Voightlander and Cosina have also.
There are literally tens-of-millions of K mount lenses that have been manufactured. Pentax claims to have done 25 million on their own over the years.
I very highly doubt that there are more choices/lenses for the Minolta Alpha mount.
SLC
Just to be safe, I'll check out what Nikon-compatible lenses are going for on eBay. Although no metering is a steep price to pay.
If I don't like the results there, it'll probably be K20D. The lenses are easier to figure out. Plus there are the little things like the second display to show quick settings and weather sealing and the in-body stabilization.
But the A330 has Bravia Sync and an HDMI port, the tilting display, SDHC and Memory Stick.
The thing that really pulls me toward the K20D is barley anyone has one. I'd never heard of Pentax until I started this search.
If I don't like the results there, it'll probably be K20D. The lenses are easier to figure out. Plus there are the little things like the second display to show quick settings and weather sealing and the in-body stabilization.
But the A330 has Bravia Sync and an HDMI port, the tilting display, SDHC and Memory Stick.
The thing that really pulls me toward the K20D is barley anyone has one. I'd never heard of Pentax until I started this search.
When I was in college in the '70s most of the folks in the photo lab had Nikon and Canon rigs, but there was always someone around with a Pentax. When asked about their cameras, they just smiled and said they liked Pentax. You could get a debate going with the Canon/Nikon crowd, but the Pentax shooters never bothered. They just shot great photos.
To add to the lens selection thing here I looked up studio lenses from Zeiss and if you really want quality you can dump 1700USD on a nice f2/100mm macro with a K mount.
Dale
Pentax was a pretty big name in the film days, along with Minolta. Then they kinda died when everyone went digital....
I have a soft spot for Pentax. And a bias against Sony, but oh well...
The Pentax K-x has been confirmed, slated for October at $650 including 18-55mm lens. This is just about as good as the K-7, and in most areas, better. Unless something greater comes out, it's going to be K-x. Although the K-x uses AA batteries and I'd prefer Li-ion. And the K20D looks more professional (not that I'm a pro).
Say what? I must have seriously overlooked something in the specs of the K-x. In what ways is it better than the K-7??
"Sized up to the K-7, its wider ISO range is the only improvement, otherwise on par in features or lacking, as is in the case of AF / AE, video, and continuous shooting speed."
So which part says that the K-x is better "in most areas," as you stated??
Looks like the K-x is likely the camera for you. That's an attractive package for that price.
And you get the backward compatibility.
SLC
And you get the backward compatibility.
SLC
OK, it was a bit hyperbolic. If you just look at quick specs, it seems like the K-x is on par or better than the K-7 in some areas.
But like I said, it uses AA batteries. The PowerShot A720 IS I have now burns right through them, so (just an educated guess) a DSLR must go through them even faster,