Poll: the midrange headless poll

[ddrueckhammer]

That's so untrue. And how are you supposed to backup, BTW?

And the Mac Pro does not allow you to install a tape drive in it.

True, I didn't really think about backing up but you can backup to DVD already with an iMac. If you want external storage for backup then it doesn't matter if you have a headless Mac or an iMac. I think that wireless storage devices will solve this problem eventually though. Of course, most people don't backup so I guess most people don't clutter up their setup. Also, for backup purposes you don't have to have your drive connected all of the time.

 

[cube]

True, I didn't really think about backing up so I guess you do need an external drive whether you have a headless mac or an iMac. Of course, most people don't backup so I guess most people don't clutter up their setup. Also, for backup purposes you don't have to have your drive connected all of the time.

There are not enough ports on the iMac and no card reader. A lot of people clutter their setups. All this stuff about "Apple should..." is irrelevant.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

There are not enough ports on the iMac and no card reader. A lot of people clutter their setups. All this stuff about "Apple should..." is irrelevant.

I agree with you on this 100%. So should Apple release a mid-range headless mac or put a few more ports and a card reader in the iMac?

 

[cube]

I agree with you on this 100%. So should Apple release a mid-range headless mac or put a few more ports and a card reader in the iMac?

No. I don't care about cluttering my desktop. I care about not wanting to run Windows, lack of consumer applications in Solaris, wanting to continue to use my excellent CRT, not having enough space for two monitors, wanting to be able to upgrade the graphics card (including a very powerful one), wanting to add a SCSI card, using one 3.5" hard disk (but I guess two now that TimeMachine is coming), using a performing and desktop optical disk (for which a lot of choice is available), not wanting to waste money on laptop components, not wanting to waste money on two cores that I don't need, not wanting to waste money on server CPUs and chipset, not wanting to waste money on horrible FB-DIMMs when 4 RAM slots @ 2GB each will be more than enough for years to come.

And while we are at it, provide an additional normal open bay, so that I can put a half-height LTO drive in it (although I would prefer full height, as they are faster).

 

[ddrueckhammer]

Wow, alot of your complaints are about cost. Maybe you haven't noticed but Macs aren't the cheapest or most flexible solution out there. Maybe Macs just aren't for you. I think that there is a better chance of OS X being released to work on Dells than Apple releasing hardware in a cheap package that meets all of your needs.

 

[dpaanlka]

I think what these people are perfectly describing is a Dell. Funny, a lot of peoples complaints about what Apples don't have is exactly why I buy Apples in the first place.

 

[2ndPath]

Get an iMac with a 500Gb hard drive, who cares about having 2 optical drives just rip them to the hard drive and then burn, they should add a flashcard reader and more USB ports though.....You don't have to clutter up your desk if you don't want to...

As it has already been mentioned by someone else, a second hard drive is essential for backup purposes. The second optical drive I need to write DVD-Ram media, which, to my best knowledge, the super drive in the iMac cannot do.

 

[2ndPath]

True, I didn't really think about backing up but you can backup to DVD already with an iMac. If you want external storage for backup then it doesn't matter if you have a headless Mac or an iMac. I think that wireless storage devices will solve this problem eventually though. Of course, most people don't backup so I guess most people don't clutter up their setup. Also, for backup purposes you don't have to have your drive connected all of the time.

Wireless storage means one wire less and one wire remaining for the power supply of the device. You can put it further away, but it will still be there. And for not having to have the drive connected all the time for back-ups: If you do a back up once a day, you do not want to put the drive on the desk, connect the firewire cable, connect the power-cable, run the backup, diconnect both cables and put the disk away, every time you do it.

 

[2ndPath]

Wow, alot of your complaints are about cost. Maybe you haven't noticed but Macs aren't the cheapest or most flexible solution out there. Maybe Macs just aren't for you. I think that there is a better chance of OS X being released to work on Dells than Apple releasing hardware in a cheap package that meets all of your needs.

Yes, cost is one of the points. Although Macs are not necessarily more expensive if there happens to be a model, which exately fits your needs. And if you want something Apple considers ¨pro¨ you have to pay $2000 although almost every PC offers the same for a couple of $100. What you get for the $2000 is worth the money, but most of the offered features you do not need.

If Apple would license OS X to Dell, I would buy one of those Dell machines running OS X (if they fit my needs). Until then I will stay with my less than optimum solution including a MBP and several external devices.

 

[cube]

If Apple would license the OS or make its applications available for Solaris, I would get a dual core Opteron with an entry level workstation 3D card from Sun for $1500. In case it was the former, I might just build it myself for less money with exactly the components I would want (Asus motherboard, Athlon X2, Super Multi Drive, etc.)

I would pay more for a Mac if it used a RISC, non-Intel CPU.

 

[mrgreen4242]

It's called iMac.

Allright, I know it can't be as much expanded as a tower, but get a MacPro if you really need the expansion. The Cube was a fluke.

1) The iMac is, I have decided, really Apples top of the line notebook. You get all the of the disadvantages of a laptop (more expensive, not as fast, not as upgradable) with none of the benifits (not portable, no battery). Conversely, you could say you get all the disadvatnages of a deskop, and none of it's advantages.

2) Keeping that in mind, the Mac mini is a perfect machine for about 70% of people, and the Mac Pro is perfect for about 10% of people. That leaves a 20% gap in the product line.

20% may not seem like much, but it's a 20% who spend a lot of money on computers. The person who a mini is ideal for will keep the mini, unupgraded, for 3-4 years. The person who falls in that 20%, though, will add more RAM, upgrade the GPU, get the latest version of OS X when it comes out, etc. as well as potentially buy a new machine every 2 years or so. They're a good customer to have.

All of that said, I'm looking to replace my G4 mini. A Core Duo mini is not perfect for me, it's only a ~70% match (GPU sucks, 2.5" HDD, no upgrades, love to form factor, a bit overpriced. A 20" iMac is also about 70% match (I like my LCD, I'm not a huge fan of the form factor, the GPU is good but not great, good value).

Given it's a lesser of two evils, $500 less makes up for a lot of evil... I would however glady drop $999 for the iMac guts in a box, if Apple also became the premier distributer of MXM GPU upgrade cards over the next 3 years (and of course used MXM in the "mini Pro"). I'd be willing to pay a premium for GPU upgrades using a goofy interface and whatnot just for the Mac experience and a mini-like form factor. Ya, I'm a sucker like that, but in truth, aren't we all?

 

[milozauckerman]

Wow, alot of your complaints are about cost. Maybe you haven't noticed but Macs aren't the cheapest or most flexible solution out there. Maybe Macs just aren't for you.

A business genius, you are. "Apple doesn't want your dollars, go away!"

 

[dpaanlka]

A business genius, you are. "Apple doesn't want your dollars, go away!"

Well, if you're not willing to pay their prices, then obviously not. BMW isn't going to make a $12,000 car because you cant afford their current offerings.

Contrary to popular belief, it isn't all about money; they don't want your dollars either.

 

[cube]

Well, if you're not willing to pay their prices, then obviously not. BMW isn't going to make a $12,000 car because you cant afford their current offerings.

Many people who "can afford" don't like to waste money.
Like Top Gear and their "500 bhp!!!" screams. What's the point outside of Germany, if you can only use it on some Autobahns (if you're crazy) and you don't care about the race track? I don't need an M5. A regular 3-Series will do.

 

[dpaanlka]

Many people who "can afford" don't like to waste money.
Like Top Gear and their "500 bhp!!!" screams. What's the point outside of Germany, if you can only use it on some Autobahns (if you're crazy) and you don't care about the race track? I don't need an M5. A regular 3-Series will do.

Exactly. Buy a PC then. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[cube]

Exactly. Buy a PC then. Nobody is stopping you.

A PC is not a 3-Series. It's garbage.

And Macs are not BMW's anymore.

I would much rather buy a SPARC workstation, but it doesn't have the applications I want.

 

[mrgreen4242]

Exactly. Buy a PC then. Nobody is stopping you.

It's people like you that make PC users think Mac users are a bunch of elitist snobs.

The MAJORITY of people on this board (Mac users who love thier Apple's enough to come to a site dedicated to rumors of new machines) want a headless midrange computer. It's a product that is missing from Apple's lineup, deal with it.

I'm sure you were the same person telling people who wanted a low end, sub-$500 Mac to buy a PC 18 months ago, too. Apple saw the demand and created the product, and it's been wildly successful. I'm hopeful they will do well with this market sector as well.

 

[dpaanlka]

It's people like you that make PC users think Mac users are a bunch of elitist snobs.

I would argue that you are the elitist snob, since you are complaining that Apple doesn't make the exact dream computer you have in mind. But you're right, I do think that my Apple products are the best in the world, and I don't care who knows it. If thinking Apple is a great company with great products makes me a snob, then so be it.

The MAJORITY of people on this board (Mac users who love thier Apple's enough to come to a site dedicated to rumors of new machines) want a headless midrange computer. It's a product that is missing from Apple's lineup, deal with it.

Umm what Poll are you looking at, because it clearly isn't this one.

A huge majority either don't want a headless mac, or don't care enough about it to boycott Apple products. That's of course, only according to this poll.

I also must clarify I don't think it's a bad idea. It's just not important enough to complain about.

I'm sure you were the same person telling people who wanted a low end, sub-$500 Mac to buy a PC 18 months ago, too. Apple saw the demand and created the product, and it's been wildly successful. I'm hopeful they will do well with this market sector as well.

Well, if you want a low end, sub-$500 computer, then yes. If you want a product that doesn't exist, then I think you're just crying over spilled milk.

 

[mrgreen4242]

I would argue that you are the elitist snob, since you are complaining that Apple doesn't make the exact dream computer you have in mind. But you're right, I do think that my Apple products are the best in the world, and I don't care who knows it. If thinking Apple is a great company with great products makes me a snob, then so be it.



Umm what Poll are you looking at, because it clearly isn't this one.

A huge majority either don't want a headless mac, or don't care enough about it to boycott Apple products. That's of course, only according to this poll.

I also must clarify I don't think it's a bad idea. It's just not important enough to complain about.



Well, if you want a low end, sub-$500 computer, then yes. If you want a product that doesn't exist, then I think you're just crying over spilled milk.

56% of the people who responded this say they would buy a headless mid-range Mac if it were available? How does that not mean that a majority of people don't care about such a mythical product?

The Mac mini didn't exist 2 years ago, but people wanted it. People have been BEGGING for a headless iMac for years.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/29855/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/28294/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/64663/

Those are just a couple - search for headless in the archives. My point is that it's a product a LOT of people wanted. Apple saw the demand and created the mini. If we don't DEMONSTRATE the demand (which people are clearly doing in this poll, I don't know what you are looking at - just because I won't boycott Apple over it doesn't mean I don't want it) how can we hope to get it?

 

[dpaanlka]

Those are just a couple - search for headless in the archives. My point is that it's a product a LOT of people wanted. Apple saw the demand and created the mini. If we don't DEMONSTRATE the demand (which people are clearly doing in this poll, I don't know what you are looking at - just because I won't boycott Apple over it doesn't mean I don't want it) how can we hope to get it?

Don't fool yourself into believing that Apple creates any product based on what people at MacRumors say.

More likely, it is after months of research in focus groups, which are comprised of people selected from the general population you want to sell to.

This poll on MacRumors represents only registered members of MacRumors who took the time to click into the poll and vote. I'm sure most of the people who are registered on MacRumors are heavy computer users, or "into" computers, and such people would be more inclined to want an upgradeable computer with no display. Especially those who clicked on a thread title labeled "Poll: the midrange headless poll" - and yet you've still only got 50 - 55% ish of that crowd saying they even want one, and fewer than 20% saying they won't buy an Apple computer now because there isn't one available.

Now imagine what the results would be of the same survey given over a general public. Do you really think if you asked your mother or my grandfather or 13 year old Jane or anybody else how badly they want a somewhat upgradeable tower-style Macintosh computer price around $1500, it would be ANYWHERE near the same results at all??!?! Especially given the decline in desktop sales vs laptop sales in recent years, especially big bulky tower modular systems?


Stop kidding yourself.


Of course a lot of us at MR would like just such a system. But you're wasting your own energy to be angry at Apple because they haven't made a system like this since the mid 90s.

These poll questions are very poorly worded by the way, and clearly have an agenda. "A midrange headless would be my best fit, but I just get whatever Apple forces me to buy" - Please, give me a break. A data gathering survey like that in any scholarly or professional situation would be thrown out. Surely, not everybody who chose that option feels they're being *forced* to buy anything, but, ahem, don't care enough about it to refrain from buying Apple products. However, there is no better worded choice.

 

[milozauckerman]

Well, if you're not willing to pay their prices, then obviously not.

I'm more than willing to pay the Apple tax for a product that meets my needs. Did I indicate that I wasn't, Business Genius?

BMW isn't going to make a $12,000 car because you cant afford their current offerings.

That would be a mini. I don't know why anyone bothers with a mini, it's the worst deal on the market.

Contrary to popular belief, it isn't all about money; they don't want your dollars either.

Of course they do - they want every profitable dollar possible, if they're an intelligent company.

You don't seem to grasp the idea behind branding: you build a brand to increase profit. You don't build a brand (ie Mac cultists like you) for prestige in and of itself. Jobs has played you, and if he wants to play me and others like me, he's got to meet our desires.

 

[dpaanlka]

You don't seem to grasp the idea behind branding: you build a brand to increase profit. You don't build a brand (ie Mac cultists like you) for prestige in and of itself. Jobs has played you, and if he wants to play me and others like me, he's got to meet our desires.

The brand is the brand itself, not the brand following ("cultists" is getting to be an overplayed card). Please, don't try and tell a COM/AD major about what a brand is.

If you're buying Macs that you don't want, then Steve Jobs has played you, not me.

Of course they do - they want every profitable dollar possible, if they're an intelligent company.

Sometimes it doesn't make profitable sense for companies to make certain products. This consumer tower Mac may cannibalize Mac Pro sales.

 

[suneohair]

I'm more than willing to pay the Apple tax for a product that meets my needs. Did I indicate that I wasn't, Business Genius?


That would be a mini. I don't know why anyone bothers with a mini, it's the worst deal on the market.


Of course they do - they want every profitable dollar possible, if they're an intelligent company.

You don't seem to grasp the idea behind branding: you build a brand to increase profit. You don't build a brand (ie Mac cultists like you) for prestige in and of itself. Jobs has played you, and if he wants to play me and others like me, he's got to meet our desires.

I wish you would leave your "mac cultist" garbage out. Who are you to make that judgement about someone? Because he likes Macs? Because he disagrees with you.

Yet you are here chatting about Macs. And whining that you want a Mac, but they don't offer what you want. Whats the point? Do you really think whining about it here is going to make Apple offer it?

Either they do or they don't. This is about as pointless as the Merom MBP whiners. Nobody knows if or when they will do such a thing. So whats the sense in complaining.

Anyhow, leave your judgement about people outside of here.

 

[milozauckerman]

I wish you would leave your "mac cultist" garbage out.

And I wish people would think about corporations and consumption - even cute, fuzzy iCorporations - rationally, rather than emotionally. We both lose.

Because he likes Macs?

Um, I like Macs. I've used nothing but Macs for years. I'll only move to Windows or Linux when Steve finally forces me - when the non-notebook line consists entirely of roided-up laptops (iMac) and $4000 PixarMacs.

Hence wanting them to actually serve the market, prosper and continue producing good products for me in the future, rather than pandering to yuppies and 'fans.'

 

[dpaanlka]

I tend to give Apple the benefit of the doubt. I think they know what they're doing more than you do. You just wrap your personal wants and needs inside a nice "I want what's best for all of us" disguise.

You are buying Macs that you don't apparently want. You lose, not me. Don't put us in the same boat.

That "cultist" crap is so old too. You're immediately ridiculous in my book if you drop that c-bomb expecting to win points on MR.