Poll: Would You Appeal an Gamer Mac based on nMP?

[Mago]

Such Gamer-Oriented Mac, should have:

• New Mac Pro "trash can" form factor
  
• Desktop Class i5 or i7 cpu (4-10 cores)
  
• 4x DDR4 non-ecc ram.
• Desktop Class GPU single or dual (as Radeon Fury X)
• iMac's SSD or instead the 2nd GPU an 2.5" HDD for Fusion Storage.
• at least 2 TB3/USB-C
• 4-6 USB3.1/USB-C
• Price sub-2000$ fully loaded (except ram)

This Mac appeals also for Prosumers that like an faster single thread cpu (as i7-6700K) and mainstream desktop GPUs better suited for video compression and gaming than the ones on the iMac.

Desktop Market is on decline, but dont blame to the cellphone or the tablet, the market is on decline due the Offering actually doest appeal the users, either aren't a sensitive upgrade on previous generation (xeon e5-v2 and v4 speed the same, only saver power or add cores), or simple doest fits their likes (as the iMac retina which is GPU underpowered).

Also consider this mac would kickstart the game development (or porting to the mac realm).

 

[garirry]

Gaming on Macs is a very weak point. There will not be any gaming-specific Macs simply because the market is extremely low (gamers will build a PC or buy a console and regular users usually don't run super-high-spec games). And it's not going anywhere because gamers don't care about the "Apple fee" so they just buy a cheap PC to play their games.

However, I would certainly want a desktop non-AIO Mac that is as powerful as an iMac and not too expensive, similar to how you described.

 

[Mago]

Gaming on Macs is a very weak point. There will not be any gaming-specific Macs simply because the market is extremely low (gamers will build a PC or buy a console and regular users usually don't run super-high-spec games). And it's not going anywhere because gamers don't care about the "Apple fee" so they just buy a cheap PC to play their games.

However, I would certainly want a desktop non-AIO Mac that is as powerful as an iMac and not too expensive, similar to how you described.

Actually this is the point, Apple long miss on the gamer market (there are few good titles on OSX as Deus Ex), if there is an Gamer Mac, game publishers will release more games on the Mac platform, I know people that loves the new Mac Pro so they purchased it for gaming (and went disappointed since Xeon are not good on gaming as i7/i5).

Also there are photoshop and fcpx users that will benefit more from i7/Fury combination than Xeon/D700 at a fraction.

I allways name Zotac they release every cpu/logic board / form factor posible, they now offer an i5/nVidia 970 on a firm factor similar to the Mac mini and having also USB-C for less than 900$, imagine what could do Apple?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I would like one just to be able to have a gaming focused desktop that is a legit Mac....I would boot into Windows for gaming anyhow.

Please no iMac mentions. Those are not gaming machines and I would also prefer to not have the integrated screen.

 

[Stacc]

This is getting into xmac type territory. There has always been some desire for a headless consumer focused mac like the mac pro without using xeon cpus and ECC memory. Certainly games would benefit from this type of config but there aren't many good reasons for Apple to sell such a computer. Apple has never cared much about games, so why would they design a computer for people to boot in windows to play games. They are also competing against commodity components. PC gamers are already a subset of total gamers that includes consoles. Those that do game on the PC would be unlikely to buy an Apple machine for $2000 to $2500 when they could get it for $1000 to $1500.

Apple considers the iMac the computer to fill this niche. Unfortunately for gamers they are limited to GPUs with about 125 W of power compared to newer cards with 250-300 W and about twice as much performance.

That said, I would love to see the form factor that Apple could come up with a skylake based 4 core cpu and a fury type GPU. You could pack a lot of power in to a really compact design that could be cooled efficiently.

 

[Mago]

This is getting into xmac type territory. There has always been some desire for a headless consumer focused mac like the mac pro without using xeon cpus and ECC memory. Certainly games would benefit from this type of config but there aren't many good reasons for Apple to sell such a computer. Apple has never cared much about games, so why would they design a computer for people to boot in windows to play games. They are also competing against commodity components. PC gamers are already a subset of total gamers that includes consoles. Those that do game on the PC would be unlikely to buy an Apple machine for $2000 to $2500 when they could get it for $1000 to $1500.

Apple considers the iMac the computer to fill this niche. Unfortunately for gamers they are limited to GPUs with about 125 W of power compared to newer cards with 250-300 W and about twice as much performance.

That said, I would love to see the form factor that Apple could come up with a skylake based 4 core cpu and a fury type GPU. You could pack a lot of power in to a really compact design that could be cooled efficiently.

All we are aware on Apple historical lack of interest on Gamer market, the only hope is on the general pc sales decline would push on Apple to consider new formulae or products to increase pc sales volume.

 

[Stacc]

All we are aware on Apple historical lack of interest on Gamer market, the only hope is on the general pc sales decline would push on Apple to consider new formulae or products to increase pc sales volume.

They could start by giving keeping OpenGL current or supporting vulkan. Maybe metal can fill the void but it seems this requires developers to implement features that are already in OpenGL or directx. One of my favorite games is elite dangerous but they had to drop OS X support for their newest version due to lack of shader model 5 which is a directx 11 level feature.

However, since so few macs have discrete GPUs, there still is not much incentive for game developers to make mac versions for triple A titles. Apple's requirements for GPUs seems to be "good enough to drive a retina display" and intel integrated graphics are more than enough.

 

[poematik13]

They already make this, it's called the iMac and it also comes with a 5K monitor for free. 4ghz i7, 64Gb of ram, 1TB SSD, and m395x card w/ 4GB vram which is respectable and can play many games fluently.

 

[h9826790]

IMO, the iMac is not even close to a proper gaming machine. It can game, but definite not a good one. For CPU intensive game, it may works better than other Mac, but for most AAA GPU intensive game, sure the cMP is a better choice (with proper gaming GPU installed). However, no matter the cMP or the nMP, is not in the same league as the top gaming PC.

No OC for CPU is a downside for gaming, even though you can OC the GPU on the iMac, but sure it will overheat.

The monitor is 5K, but the GPU may just good enough for 1080P (assume highest setting, otherwise why we play on PC? A console can do 1080P 60FPS nowadays). I've seen quite a few guys in the iMac forum said that they can play games in highest setting in 4K (or even 5K), that's BS, even the TitanX can't do it. It's either they don't know what 4K / 5K means, or they don't know what highest setting is. Of course, it's totally possible if they only play some very simple 3D games, but that's not what we want from a gaming PC, right?

We are now talking about dual Fury X with a much better cooling system. However, I will only interested in it if it can be OC, and no GPU driver issue (like the D700 does) in Windows. Yes, it's a Mac, I will use it for rendering, encoding etc in OSX, but I will only game in Windows (unless the gaming performance in OSX can match Windows). There is no point to pick the wrong platform to do the wrong job.

 

[Bytehoven]

I voted NO. Only good games on Mac were Myst and Riven and maybe GW2,

Seriously though, why would I buy a nMP to do what my cMP already does so well running Win 10? I play numerous MMOs on the cMP with great success. Only thing I needed to really make for a better experience was adding a Logitech G510 keyboard for lots of quick keys and a Razer NAGA.

 

[Mago]

I voted NO. Only good games on Mac were Myst and Riven and maybe GW2,

Seriously though, why would I buy a nMP to do what my cMP already does so well running Win 10? I play numerous MMOs on the cMP with great success. Only thing I needed to really make for a better experience was adding a Logitech G510 keyboard for lots of quick keys and a Razer NAGA.

There are many more, as DeusEx, Commando, yeah not as many on wincrap or steam but certainly very good ones.

To date I didn't play a game on Metal/OSX This is something which deserves a try.

 

[koyoot]

Truth be told: future gaming PC's that will be custom config from different parts will be Workstation CPU + Workstation GPUS.

Mainstream will rely on NUC, Laptop, or small PC's in form factors with external GPUs. Mac Pro in current state is iteration of this vision. And its power will be possible to expand - through Thunderbolt or whatever in future it will be called.

 

[666sheep]

Truth be told: future gaming PC's that will be custom config from different parts will be Workstation CPU + Workstation GPUS.

Mainstream will rely on NUC, Laptop, or small PC's in form factors with external GPUs. Mac Pro in current state is iteration of this vision. And its power will be possible to expand - through Thunderbolt or whatever in future it will be called.

Cool down Macstradamus

 

[koyoot]

Cool down Macstradamus

Good to see ya on this forum again 666 .

P.S. It is not about Mac platform itself, rather whole desktop PC market. It already started: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9877/...-motherboards-for-intel-xeon-e3-v5-processors
and will only grow. Workstation chips have higher price margins and thats how OEM's can mitigate declining desktop market as a whole and higher silicon wafer costs at the same time.

 

[nolankvn]

Gaming on Macs is a very weak point. There will not be any gaming-specific Macs simply because the market is extremely low (gamers will build a PC or buy a console and regular users usually don't run super-high-spec games). And it's not going anywhere because gamers don't care about the "Apple fee" so they just buy a cheap PC to play their games.

However, I would certainly want a desktop non-AIO Mac that is as powerful as an iMac and not too expensive, similar to how you described.

Self fulfilling prophecy. The market is low because Apple has never offered a good solution and has never motivated developers to support its platform.

The PC gaming market is actually growing, and we're on the precipice of a huge boom in esports. There will probably never be a prosumer mac pro, but it won't be because the market isn't there for it. It'll be because Apple's internal culture is clueless about gaming.

 

[Mago]

Self fulfilling prophecy. The market is low because Apple has never offered a good solution and has never motivated developers to support its platform.

The PC gaming market is actually growing, and we're on the precipice of a huge boom in esports. There will probably never be a prosumer mac pro, but it won't be because the market isn't there for it. It'll be because Apple's internal culture is clueless about gaming.

There is evidence Apple's Culture about gaming is changing, METAL on OS/X is clear evidence.

Now that we are Macstrodamus, I'll launch my own prediction:

There is 50:50 chance for Apple to launch an beffier mac desktop, either as supplement of the current mac mini or the mac pro (what ever will be halfway both).

Gaming PC Market is Kicked by Steam, and most popular Steam Machines now are fully integrated Barebones with only memory and storage upgradeable, the old classic AT/ATX chassis is going out the scene slowly but steady.

Apple really has good chance also to provide Desktops for STEAM, and a god one could come in the nMP form factor, there is also many Fanboys that purchased an Mac Pro just in-love with its stile (not being neither Pro, Prosumer or power user, as much bloggers).

In the Middle Term, Apple will move away Intel and run entirely on AMD (dont strange if Apple Purchases AMD soon), AMD is readyn Desktop/Workstation APU with real Desktop/Workstation power, aimed to? obviously: Macs wth eta 2017/2018.

 

[koyoot]

Mago, that is EXACTLY what I think. I believe that we will see something between Mac Mini in current form, and Mac Pro. Smaller cylinder with single GPU, single CPU(Intel Quad Core i7 with 35W, and AMD Fury as top of the options?) packed in 200W?


I was hoping for it for a long time.

 

[AidenShaw]

Mago, that is EXACTLY what I think. I believe that we will see something between Mac Mini in current form, and Mac Pro. Smaller cylinder with single GPU, single CPU(Intel Quad Core i7 with 35W, and AMD Fury as top of the options?) packed in 200W?


I was hoping for it for a long time.

Make the GPU a Pascal, and you'd have something worth looking at.

And don't cripple it with an absurdly small power supply.

 

[jameslmoser]

I wish they would support external video cards already... If the next Mac Pro did that, it could be even smaller and just as upgradable as the classic Mac Pro, and I would actually buy one to replace my classic pro. I don't game often but I do on occasion, and even though OS X isn't great for it now, you can use it to boot Windows and game on it that way.

Or if they sold a thunderbolt monitor with a pci video card slot, that would be awesome.... Never gonna happen, but it would still be awesome.

 

[Mago]

I wish they would support external video cards already... If the next Mac Pro did that, it could be even smaller and just as upgradable as the classic Mac Pro, and I would actually buy one to replace my classic pro. I don't game often but I do on occasion, and even though OS X isn't great for it now, you can use it to boot Windows and game on it that way.

Or if they sold a thunderbolt monitor with a pci video card slot, that would be awesome.... Never gonna happen, but it would still be awesome.

I dont believe the Next Mac Pro thru TB3 could support external Video card for output, but external GPU for processing, not very useful for rendering.

 

[lowendlinux]

There is evidence Apple's Culture about gaming is changing, METAL on OS/X is clear evidence.

Now that we are Macstrodamus, I'll launch my own prediction:

There is 50:50 chance for Apple to launch an beffier mac desktop, either as supplement of the current mac mini or the mac pro (what ever will be halfway both).

Gaming PC Market is Kicked by Steam, and most popular Steam Machines now are fully integrated Barebones with only memory and storage upgradeable, the old classic AT/ATX chassis is going out the scene slowly but steady.

Apple really has good chance also to provide Desktops for STEAM, and a god one could come in the nMP form factor, there is also many Fanboys that purchased an Mac Pro just in-love with its stile (not being neither Pro, Prosumer or power user, as much bloggers).

In the Middle Term, Apple will move away Intel and run entirely on AMD (dont strange if Apple Purchases AMD soon), AMD is readyn Desktop/Workstation APU with real Desktop/Workstation power, aimed to? obviously: Macs wth eta 2017/2018.

I don't think the FTC would let Apple buy AMD.

 

[lowendlinux]

I dont believe the Next Mac Pro thru TB3 could support external Video card for output, but external GPU for processing, not very useful for rendering.

MVC and Netkas already has eGPU's doing video out if they can do it, it would be simple for Apple to do it.

 

[Mago]

MVC and Netkas already has eGPU's doing video out if they can do it, it would be simple for Apple to do it.

I own a nMP L'13 I tested personally few nVidia GPU on an Pcie cage connected thru Thunderbolt to one of my nMP Tb2 ports I expected it to work just slower (tb2=pcie 2 on 4 lines, tb3 will only twice that (Pcie 2 / x8), still far away Pcie 3 / x4. The only thing I got was kernel panics, Thunderbolt doesn't support some of the Pcie gpu signal due incompatibility with tb2 intrinsic plug n play nature, I don't know if the issue could be solved afterwards (either on tb2 with improved drivers or on tb3 with improved signaling or both), there still an important bottleneck to overcome, is that tb2 delivers just 1/4 of the bandwidth as a single pcie2 x/16 slot, not to say that pcie3 is much faster an deeper integrated to the pch (platform chipset).

Whatever, not the first time the idea come and go, Sony was the first on one vaio Yo offer an external gpu on Thunderbolt (they didn't name it as tb, but use tb chipset), was successful only as nightly.

 

[Mago]

I don't think the FTC would let Apple buy AMD.

FTC Rules on trade issues, this neither distort CPU or PC markets, neither the SEC has nothing to do since owning the supply chain doesn't build a monopoly, unless you control the only supply of your rivals.

 

[lowendlinux]

I own a nMP L'13 I tested personally few nVidia GPU on an Pcie cage connected thru Thunderbolt to one of my nMP Tb2 ports I expected it to work just slower (tb2=pcie 2 on 4 lines, tb3 will only twice that (Pcie 2 / x8), still far away Pcie 3 / x4. The only thing I got was kernel panics, Thunderbolt doesn't support some of the Pcie gpu signal due incompatibility with tb2 intrinsic plug n play nature, I don't know if the issue could be solved afterwards (either on tb2 with improved drivers or on tb3 with improved signaling or both), there still an important bottleneck to overcome, is that tb2 delivers just 1/4 of the bandwidth as a single pcie2 x/16 slot, not to say that pcie3 is much faster an deeper integrated to the pch (platform chipset).

Whatever, not the first time the idea come and go, Sony was the first on one vaio Yo offer an external gpu on Thunderbolt (they didn't name it as tb, but use tb chipset), was successful only as nightly.

That doesn't change the fact that Netkas and MVC have it working.