I am going to write two posts, (though the software here may jam them together), one will just explain pressure vs gravity vs magnetic field, and the other will hopefully answer your questions. Ok pressure or atmospheric pressure is caused by the column of material above you pushing down. At sea level that is 14.7 PSI (Pounds per square inch), its about 1/2 that much at the base camp for K2 (20K over sea level). On the other hand, every 33 feet you go under water increases the pressure on you by 1 Atmosphere, so at 100 feet down you are feeling the pressure of 3 additional atmospheres (4 total), its part of the reason you have to use mixed gases in scuba dives over 132 ft (4 atmospheres down), instead of just compressed air we use for shallower dives. Ok how does gravity affect this? Gravity is what keeps the atmosphere around the planet, it keeps it from flying away, but it doesn't cause the pressure, the pressure is caused by the materials in the atmosphere above you. Gravity on the moon has likely been the same since before it lost its atmosphere, it used to have an atmosphere, and then the solar winds destroyed it like they did on Mars. And now to our third topic Magnetic Field, again Magnetic Field doesn't make the pressure, its basically a force field to protect the planet from radiation and other effects from the Sun. The moons magnetic field wasnt powerful to protect its atmosphere and it was eventually warn away, same thing has happened to Mars, where its current atmosphere is much less then what it had a millions of years ago. That is why I said changes to the Magnetic Field don't affect the pressure, because you have to have the materials actually in an atmosphere above you pushing down to get pressure, so increasing a magnetic field without putting 8,642,350,000,000,000 lbs of material into the air and making it stay in the atmosphere doesnt get you the 1% (0.147 PSI) atmosphere required to allow water to flow between 0-7 degrees. Without at least a 1% atmosphere, we have no liquid water, so no water flowing.
-Tig
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I don't think anyone has said prinz is an impact crater, in fact in post 121 I said it was a collapsed volcano like CRATER LAKE, NGOROGORO or MT ST HELENS. Also I wouldnt bet heavy on it being dead, but thats the topic for another conversation.
Again for the 34th time, what do actually think is going to be found as residue of a lava flow over volcanic basalt. Its a simple question, you bring us residue every single post, and yet you can't tell us what you think we should be seeing that tells you (and only you) that its not a lava flow. And hot lava melts channels through rock all the time, its kind of the thing lava does so sure there is loose materials in the path of the lava, but we know it also burned a path into the rock, we see the strata on the sides of the channel from the LROC pics, thats not stacks of Ejecta thats good ole Volcanic rock.
I am not going to answer another residue question until you define residue. In the Rille we were originally discussing, we know it was formed AFTER the plateau it was occurs on was pushed up. Every event on the Plateau is from after the Plateau's creation. We know the last event in the Meteor strike 175 Million years ago because the ejecta from it has not bleached to same color as the rest of the rock yet and it can seen over the Rille's the Volcano's etc. I almost think you have the sand problem stuck in your head, with the mares comments there, and like the sand on a beach the rock on the Mare is not all from the same lava flow.
NONE. That was easy. See previous post to find out why.
AND FINALLY NO. And your theory means nothing to lunar colonization, current estimates have between 100 Million and 1 Billion metric tons of water at each of the poles. That is more then enough for colonization.
-Tig
-Tig
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I was about to throw in the towel and admit error in my interpretation of Prinz and see the possibility of lava the most likely cutting agent in most rille scenarios ..... but then saw a few things that didn’t quite add up in the astronomer’s argument. (Sorry, Tig .... I know we all want to lay this to rest and move on!)
1) Surely Prinz is not an impact crater filled with Mares lava, but an old dead volcanic crater, like Herodotus? ...... but maybe earlier, hence the crumbling rims,(see pic) .... which helped create the local Mare? It blew it’s pyroclast head off throwing loose debris over the area cut by the Rimae. It then filled with liquid lava in its death throes.
I don't think anyone has said prinz is an impact crater, in fact in post 121 I said it was a collapsed volcano like CRATER LAKE, NGOROGORO or MT ST HELENS. Also I wouldnt bet heavy on it being dead, but thats the topic for another conversation.
2) Is the photo in Post 108 showing a cut through solid basalt by a mini volcano(Vera?) with strangely no traces of residues or mini crater lip .... or is it a minor meteor impact fracture of a Prinz lava tube full of water condensate running through ‘sandy’ deposits similar to Hadley’s Rille?
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i...0j0i13j33i10.jcYTmTnAxN0#imgrc=-Reb9JnmyJMylM:
It depends on how loose the local ejecta really is - to make an informed choice.
Again for the 34th time, what do actually think is going to be found as residue of a lava flow over volcanic basalt. Its a simple question, you bring us residue every single post, and yet you can't tell us what you think we should be seeing that tells you (and only you) that its not a lava flow. And hot lava melts channels through rock all the time, its kind of the thing lava does so sure there is loose materials in the path of the lava, but we know it also burned a path into the rock, we see the strata on the sides of the channel from the LROC pics, thats not stacks of Ejecta thats good ole Volcanic rock.
3) If astronomers are putting the creation of the Mares much earlier than rille creation ..... (to tie in with the period the moon had an atmosphere twice as thick as Mars) why do they insist rilles are lava formed, when most intense volcanic activity had died down by then, the Mares had cooled and seemless flow of rille lava into the Mares wouldn’t have been possible without showing visible residues?).
I am not going to answer another residue question until you define residue. In the Rille we were originally discussing, we know it was formed AFTER the plateau it was occurs on was pushed up. Every event on the Plateau is from after the Plateau's creation. We know the last event in the Meteor strike 175 Million years ago because the ejecta from it has not bleached to same color as the rest of the rock yet and it can seen over the Rille's the Volcano's etc. I almost think you have the sand problem stuck in your head, with the mares comments there, and like the sand on a beach the rock on the Mare is not all from the same lava flow.
I notice they don't say water, because they think its volcanic, because all the rock found here is volcanic, the issue is its caused by something other then flowing lava, like the collapse of lava tubes or the other ways we talked about could possibly be ways that some of the Rille were created. Your Rille, the one you started this thread with was caused by a Lava flow, all of them were created by some form of Vulcanism.Tig theorises rilles cutting through basalt, my focus is those that cut through loose pyroclast ejecta similar to Hadley Rille .... and I prefer the odd ones even astronomers are finding it difficult to nail to lava theory. (See paragraph 3) :
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-362/ch6.1.htm
“In some sinuous channels a small valley has formed within a larger valley, indicating at least two episodes of valley formation. Other meandering channels do not start or stop in a crater-they are formed on lava plains that are so flat it is difficult to tell the direction of flow. Still other channels have formed on mountainsides covered by hummocky ejecta thrown outward from major impact basins; these rilles may have been formed by some process other than lava flows.”
Its a hurdle you don't seem to understand. You have to create an atmosphere on the moon AND THEN you get 0-7 degrees, for the last 3 billion years, ice turns to vapor directly at -67 degrees Celsius.Mmmm .... maybe water? .... if 0-7 degrees wasn’t such a big hurdle!
Strange Tig brands my theory a silly Youtube fantasy ...... yet this conundrum is on a NASA webpage .... so at least some astronomers are still ‘not totally happy’ with lava theory.
Although I appreciate the atmospheric numbers Tigger highlighted in Post 101 ..... just wondered how they can be so definite about the historic figures going back billions of years? ...... And if one or two numbers in those calculations are skewed by the findings in the Nature magazine article referenced below in 2015..... how much will that affect calculations of lunar atmospheric pressure during rille creation?
NONE. That was easy. See previous post to find out why.
Again, NO.When the sun’s rays penetrate blanket layers of different gases and dust particulate from pyroclastic lunar volcanic eruptions ..... temperature differentials will surely generate changes in atmospheric pressure?
The Nobel Prize winning question is: ...... Is that sufficient to upset 0-7 degree Triple Point for 1 billion years, and allow water to erode some of the Moon’s rilles and create exciting possibilities for lunar colonisation?
AND FINALLY NO. And your theory means nothing to lunar colonization, current estimates have between 100 Million and 1 Billion metric tons of water at each of the poles. That is more then enough for colonization.
-Tig
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