PowerBook G3 Wallstreet "PDQ" Appreciation

[LightBulbFun]

Perhaps it is the display’s device id which makes the pairing process model-specific on the 3rd party WS/PDQ upgrade cards?

I might have to put it on hold until I arrange to buy some tools to swap the BootROM.

I was thinking that (esp as @weckart has such a card that refuses to play ball, tho he may have tried it in both a PDQ and WS I cant recall sadly)

it would stop the display from working if placed in a PDQ machine while being flashed with a WS BootROM, however it should still chime and boot just like your card does.

from what I have seen the WS/PDQ upgrade cards somehow manage to copy the BootROM to the machines HDD then flash it back to the new CPU card.

I honestly have no idea how they get the machine to do this while not having a BootROM, possibly the upgrade cards come with some very basic BootROM to fetch the Real BootROM off the HDD maybe?...

 

[weckart]

I was thinking that (esp as @weckart has such a card that refuses to play ball, tho he may have tried it in both a PDQ and WS I can't recall sadly)

I have and the result is the same. No chime and racing fans. I think your guess is the same as mine; a minimal bootROM and a script to copy the original firmware back to the upgrade card. I am guessing that on successful completion some flag is set that makes the bootROM non-writable.

 

[AphoticD]

A little update on my 2nd PDQ. I bought a 233MHz/512KB PDQ CPU card from a seller in the USA and got my second unit humming along happily.

It has 256MB RAM and a 2GB HDD. Within these limitations, I decided to install Panther 10.3.9 via XPostFacto 4, stripped back as much as possible using Monolingual 1.3.9 to clear out much of the locale and non-G3 binary guff.

I have enabled the built in Apache web server and activated the ancient PHP 4.4.7 module (in httpd.conf). Installed Taco HTML Edit v1.7.2 for a full-colour tag editor. Combined with TextWrangler 2.1.3, Transmit 3.7 and OneWindowBrowser 1.1 for a lightweight web browser / preview, I have a fully functioning HTML, PHP and Python prototyping rig. Sure Safari 1.3.2's CSS implementation is ancient, but for markup, why not?

As always, Appleworks 6.2.4 provides a full office suite for writing, drawing, painting, spreadsheets and also a lightweight database tool. The word processor is great for typing on the PDQ's deep, concave keys and the vector based Drawing tool can be used for quick design or UI mockups.

In terms of tweaks, I have used Onyx to disable the Finder and Dock animations, made the "Speed of Sheets" fast and a few other items.

I found that out of the box, Panther was feeling clunky as the onboard ATI Rage LT Pro wasn't doing any of the hardware acceleration needed for a smooth Quartz WM compositor. Using my research in getting The Rage Pro accelerated in Tiger, I was able to install the same modified Jaguar kext into Panther and see massive gains in on-screen drawing and window movement. Setting Colors in Display Preferences to "Thousands" also made a substantial difference.

With the GPU hardware acceleration working, Panther is even snappier than Tiger on this particular Mac. It does NOT feel like a 233MHz computer from 20 years ago. It's actually pretty responsive and fluid, which is quite surprising.

Retro Machines

 

[reukiodo]

I'll need to give this a try on my PDQ, as soon as I find out where it is...

 

[swamprock]

I'll need to give this a try on my PDQ, as soon as I find out where it is...

It works great, and not just on the Wallstreet. The iMac G3 revs A-D benefit from this tweak as well.

Now if only my Wallstreet's hinges would stop self-immolating. The right hinge from my donor machine has now imploded...

 

[swamprock]

There is a way to use XPostFacto to use a larger partition as a helper partition and to be able to install OS X on a partition larger than 8gb, but it's a bit of a pain in my experience. For instance, you can split your drive equally (say, a 60 gig drive into two 30 gb partitions), install OS X on the first partition, and set XPF to use the second partition to install bootx and other extensions so that the 8gb limitation goes away. It's a bit of a kludge, though, and I had some issues with switching between OS 9 and OS X, where I had to reset the PRAM to get back to OS 9.

Jaguar runs terribly on the Wallstreet, and has the dreaded backlight/dead PRAM issue, where the backlight won't come on and you have to boot to OS 9 and back to OS X to fix it. Even Panther is pretty bad on the Wallstreet. Puma or Tiger are your best bets for OS X.

Reopening this old thread for a couple of reasons. I was wrong about how XpostFacto uses helper partitions. In order to use a helper partition to run OS X on a larger partition, you still have to split the drive into two partitions, starting with one 8 gb boot/first partition (mine is set to 7.6 gb); making the remaining space your second partition; and install OS 9 on the first partition. You can then install OS X on the larger second partition, using the 8 gb partition as the helper partition. XPF will (usually) keep these partitions synced so that no failures happen. It works pretty well, and I'm currently running my PDQ this way.

As far as workable browsers go, Arctic Fox PPC is your best bet. It's no speed demon at 233mhz for sure, but it's the best running browser that I've found for the PDQ. Using the Jaguar Rage driver method that @AphoticD outlined earlier in this thread, video acceleration is improved a bit, and I'm able to use Arctic Fox and the combination View script/mplayer G3 method @Dronecatcher came up with to download and watch 3gp video from YouTube at a decent clip.

All in all, the Wallstreet is one of the more fun little beasts for those who like to tinker and wring the most out of these old relics.

 

[AphoticD]

Nice work @swamprock. Good to see further appreciation for this old Mac.

Using the Jaguar Rage driver method that @AphoticD outlined in an earlier thread (or was it this one

It is. Page 2, post 32

 

[swamprock]

Nice work @swamprock. Good to see further appreciation for this old Mac.

The Wallstreet was my first Mac notebook, so it holds sentimental value.

It is. Page 2, post 32

Thanks. I thought so, but searching for it with my Wallstreet would have taken ages, and I saved all of the necessary files and documentation when you first posted it

I modified my original post to reflect this.

 

[MacFoxG4]

I own two Wallstreets, the passive matrix "Main Street" model and a 233mhz PDQ. I stopped using the "Main Street" once I got the PDQ (I didn't like using the passive matrix screen and I also accidentally damaged the keyboard cable so the keyboard doesn't work). I mainly use the PDQ for making floppy images and writing floppy images to disk (I took the floppy module from the "Main Street"). I also use it to back up Word 5.1 documents I make on my SE to CF or SD via a PCMCIA adapter. I love the look of the Wallstreet models and the hot swappable expansion bays are really neat. I upgraded the RAM on the "Main Street" from 64 MB to 512 MB, the PDQ has 256 MB (which is what it came with when I bought it on eBay). I thought about transferring the RAM from the "Main Street" to the PDQ, but I'm a bit hesitant on doing that since the last time I opened up the "Main Street" I accidentally bent the keyboard cable to the point where it no longer catches in the connector. I'm nervous about accidentally doing the same thing to the PDQ. I bought the DVD-ROM module for the PDQ along with the required PCMCIA card that goes with it and it's nice watching DVDs on this laptop.

The only thing I don't like about the Wallstreets is that when the PRAM dies, it takes longer for the Mac to boot. The power light will come on, the fans will spin up, the chime will sound, then the Mac is silent for about 1-2 minutes before the HDD starts up and loads the OS. I noticed that having OS 9 on there makes the boot time even longer. I found this out when I upgraded the "Main Street" from 8.1 to 9.2.2. The PDQ had 9.1 on it when I bought it, but I have since downgraded it to 8.6. The Mac boots up noticeably faster on 8 than on 9. I have also noticed that 8.5.1 seems to be a bit faster than 8.6. I have never ran OS X on either the "Main Street" or PDQ. I haven't tried 8.1 on the PDQ, but I have thought about it.

 

[BigEater]

Reopening this old thread for a couple of reasons. I was wrong about how XpostFacto uses helper partitions. In order to use a helper partition to run OS X on a larger partition, you still have to split the drive into two partitions, starting with one 8 gb boot/first partition (mine is set to 7.6 gb); making the remaining space your second partition; and install OS 9 on the first partition. You can then install OS X on the larger second partition, using the 8 gb partition as the helper partition. XPF will (usually) keep these partitions synced so that no failures happen. It works pretty well, and I'm currently running my PDQ this way.

As far as workable browsers go, Arctic Fox PPC is your best bet. It's no speed demon at 233mhz for sure, but it's the best running browser that I've found for the PDQ. Using the Jaguar Rage driver method that @AphoticD outlined earlier in this thread, video acceleration is improved a bit, and I'm able to use Arctic Fox and the combination View script/mplayer G3 method @Dronecatcher came up with to download and watch 3gp video from YouTube at a decent clip.

All in all, the Wallstreet is one of the more fun little beasts for those who like to tinker and wring the most out of these old relics.

Hate to bump an old thread like this but I'm curious how you got this working. I setup my drive just as you did, installed OS 9, and then XPostFacto. I ran XPostFacto, chose my small partition as the "helper" and tried to install OS X. OS X Installer only allowed me to install on the small partition. Strange.

I'm new to Classic Mac OS and some of this is a little confusing.

 

[swamprock]

Hate to bump an old thread like this but I'm curious how you got this working. I setup my drive just as you did, installed OS 9, and then XPostFacto. I ran XPostFacto, chose my small partition as the "helper" and tried to install OS X. OS X Installer only allowed me to install on the small partition. Strange.

I'm new to Classic Mac OS and some of this is a little confusing.

Hmm... dunno. It can be a bit flaky, and took me a few tries, but it finally took.

 

[Macbookprodude]

PDQ Accelerated!

Not to be discouraged by a few failed attempts, I systematically went through each iteration of Mac OS X updates from 10.4.11 backwards to find a working driver for the ATI Rage LT Pro.

Mac OS X 10.4.3 - 10.4.11 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.4.4.2 (1366)
Mac OS X 10.4.0 - 10.4.2 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.4.0.11 (2895)
Mac OS X 10.3.7 - 10.3.9 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.26.1 (2435)
Mac OS X 10.3.4 - 10.3.6 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.18.2 (2059)
Mac OS X 10.3.3 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.8.6 (1978)
Mac OS X 10.3.0 - 10.3.2 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.0.11 (1734)

(Each patched to include the '0x4c501002' device ID).

All of which resulted in the same behaviour as before; Purple patches in Millions of Colors and psychedelic distortion when set to Thousands.

Until finally;
Mac OS X 10.2.8 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.2.26.32 (1679)

We now have full 2D acceleration in Tiger 10.4.11 on the PDQ! Setting bit depth to "Thousands" results in the best performance. Disabling shadows makes a massive improvement in redraw (I'm using Shadowless, but ShadowKiller will do the same).

View attachment 764270

This has made the 233Mhz/512K PDQ with 384MB of RAM a very acceptable performer with Tiger. Everything has become fluid and responsive much like the Pismo (which operates at more than twice the speed at 500Mhz/1MB with 1GB RAM).

The only downside is that OpenGL surfaces fail to initiate due to an invalid pixelformat error. This means Screensavers are broken and any OpenGL based 3D apps and games which don't have a fallback.

View attachment 764267
VRAM is now reported as 8MB (not 16MB as before). Actual is still just 4MB though.

View attachment 764266

Attached is the modified ATIRagePro.kext and ATIRageProGA.plugin drivers (v1.2.26) to install into a Tiger installation.

ATIRageProDrivers10.2.8.zip

To install, download and unzip, copy into /System/Library/Extensions/, then in Terminal;

sudo chown -R root:wheel /System/Library/Extensions/ATIRagePro*
sudo chmod -R 755 /System/Library/Extensions/ATIRagePro*
sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions
sudo rm /System/Library/Extensions.mkext
sudo rm /System/Library/Extensions.kextcache

You can then reboot and OS X will rebuild the caches during boot time, but I found it's easier to ask XPostFacto to "Install Extensions", which will automatically rebuild the boot caches and allow a normal reboot.

I hope this can help some other PDQ owners to squeeze the most out of this old Mac.

-AphoticD

Not to change subject, but will these drivers also speed up the Pismo ?

 

[AphoticD]

Not to change subject, but will these drivers also speed up the Pismo ?

No, the Jaguar drivers will only help a Mac with Rage LT Pro graphics like the PDQ, Lombard and some iMac G3s.

Apple stripped the LT Pro graphics drivers for these models from Tiger and marked these Macs as unsupported. The Panther release which was still supported had crippled driver support for this chipset.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Ok, so the Pismo needs nothing at all then ?

 

[AphoticD]

Ok, so the Pismo needs nothing at all then ?

The video drivers in Tiger are good on the Pismo, but you can speed things up a little using the tweaks I posted on the Rage 128 Kext Thread.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Ok thanks will take a look there.

 

[galgot]

I'm trying to boot a 250Mhz Wallstreet from a Tiger CD (have a Tiger install that comes in 4 CDs, handy).
After selecting the CD in XpostFacto4, it boots, I can hear the chine , but I get a black screen.
Is there a known problem booting a Wally from a Tiger CD, or are there any specific settings to implement in XpostFacto4 for doing that ?

Note this Wallstreet, although in perfect condition and running fine in OS 9, refuses to zap the pram or boot in OF...

 

[rambo47]

My first Mac was the Wallstreet PowerBook. I had the 292MHz model with the super-fast 83MHz system bus! When it came out it was the fastest laptop on the planet. Eventually I had it in tri-boot mode with OS9, the OSX Public Beta, and Yellowdog Linux. Wireless access through an Orinoco Silver cardbus card. Netscape Navigator as a browser.

 

[galgot]

I'm trying to boot a 250Mhz Wallstreet from a Tiger CD (have a Tiger install that comes in 4 CDs, handy).
After selecting the CD in XpostFacto4, it boots, I can hear the chine , but I get a black screen.
Is there a known problem booting a Wally from a Tiger CD, or are there any specific settings to implement in XpostFacto4 for doing that ?

Note this Wallstreet, although in perfect condition and running fine in OS 9, refuses to zap the pram or boot in OF...

Anyone ?...

 

[LightBulbFun]

I'm trying to boot a 250Mhz Wallstreet from a Tiger CD (have a Tiger install that comes in 4 CDs, handy).
After selecting the CD in XpostFacto4, it boots, I can hear the chine , but I get a black screen.
Is there a known problem booting a Wally from a Tiger CD, or are there any specific settings to implement in XpostFacto4 for doing that ?

Note this Wallstreet, although in perfect condition and running fine in OS 9, refuses to zap the pram or boot in OF...

if you go into the xpostfacto settings what are your input and output devices set to?

input should be set to the keyboard and output should be set to whatever the video card is called in the device tree (it will be fairly obvious in the drop down menu)

the not wanting to reset PRAM is strange however, one of the first things id normally recommend is resetting your PRAM then going through the xpostfacto steps again

 

[galgot]

if you go into the xpostfacto settings what are your input and output devices set to?

input should be set to the keyboard and output should be set to whatever the video card is called in the device tree (it will be fairly obvious in the drop down menu)

the not wanting to reset PRAM is strange however, one of the first things id normally recommend is resetting your PRAM then going through the xpostfacto steps again

Thanks. Yes, I have input-device as keyboard and output-device as ATY,264LT-G (same ref as in profile manager).
Just tried with a panther CD, same thing :/
And no way this WS wants to reset PRAM or boot in OF.

You had Tiger pre-installed on the HD you used in that WS of your ?

Edit: Finally managed to reset the PRAM by making a pmu reset, that is : disconnect battery and power socket, and hold shift + fn + ctrl keys and power button for good 30 sec.
But still no joy. Chime then a black screen.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I sadly dont own a WS/PDQ (tho id very much like to get one!) so im not sure what your referring to there?

but have you tried booting from a 10.2.x disk, id try that, disregard xpostfacto etc reset the PRAM and just see if ya can boot from a supported OS X version

 

[galgot]

I sadly dont own a WS/PDQ (tho id very much like to get one!) so im not sure what your referring to there?

but have you tried booting from a 10.2.x disk, id try that, disregard xpostfacto etc reset the PRAM and just see if ya can boot from a supported OS X version

Apologie, I asked without checking the original poster of this threard , and mixed you and @AphoticD .
Yes, will try 10.2 tomorrow, thks.

 

[AphoticD]

You had Tiger pre-installed on the HD you used in that WS of your ?

I had forgotten what I had, but just re-read my first post...

To combat the noisy 2GB "angle-grinder" HDD, I dug out the 6GB HDD which shipped with my Pismo (and fortunately had a fresh installation of Mac OS X 10.4.6 + Mac OS 9.2.2 pre-installed). Getting inside the PDQ is great. It has been so thoughtfully designed. Everything is so easy to get to. I especially enjoyed finding the hidden keyboard release latches inside the expansion bays.

Initially it wouldn't boot Mac OS 9.2.2, so I had a thought that maybe 9.2.2 wasn't supported (due to the New/Old World ambiguity). So I booted off a Mac OS 9.0.4 CD and did a fresh install of the classic Mac OS on top of the Tiger installation. I then rebooted into OS 9.0.4 and launched XPostFacto, which made it dead easy to boot into OS X.

Tiger ran through everything as expected. And just like any other Mac I have, I was able to install all of the software updates, pulled down from Apple' servers via the 10mbit Ethernet port. This brought it up to 10.4.11. I then installed a series of apps, albeit HDD space is limited, even with 6GB, so I didn't install my usual Xcode 2.5 configuration (or MacPorts / Tigerbrew).

Maybe you could try installing Tiger (or Panther) on the drive then install into your WS and run XPostFacto in the same manner?

I have a 2nd PDQ which I was able to install Panther via CD (+ XPostFacto).

I was going to suggest if the keyboard combo won't let you into OF, you can possibly set the `auto-boot?` flag to false via the nvram command in Terminal app or single-user mode on a supported OS (Jag, Puma)

 

[galgot]

I had forgotten what I had, but just re-read my first post...



Maybe you could try installing Tiger (or Panther) on the drive then install into your WS and run XPostFacto in the same manner?

I have a 2nd PDQ which I was able to install Panther via CD (+ XPostFacto).

I was going to suggest if the keyboard combo won't let you into OF, you can possibly set the `auto-boot?` flag to false via the nvram command in Terminal app or single-user mode on a supported OS (Jag, Puma)

Thks, will try that.