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PowerMac G5: World's Fastest Desktop Computer
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Panther and Longhorn
To me the highlight of the Keynote movie was when Steve showed a video in which we first saw a Panther and then a Longhorn-cow accompanied with some great music. I think this is some what symbolic for the Apple- and MS crowd, even in the world we have far more cows then panthers!
To me the highlight of the Keynote movie was when Steve showed a video in which we first saw a Panther and then a Longhorn-cow accompanied with some great music. I think this is some what symbolic for the Apple- and MS crowd, even in the world we have far more cows then panthers!
Re: Cheers, Abstract (et al)...
MacBidouille was French-Canadian, wasn't it? So theres no need for us Brits to grovelling to any French people!
By the way, has anyone else noticed the complete lack of 15" Albooks?
Originally posted by Brother Mugga
Regarding Flowbee's post:
Er, yeah...that's what I was saying (?). Clearly I made a hash of saying it, though (no change there...).
Db's are logarithmic,* so 70 decibels is pretty-bleedin' loud. I've never heard a wind-tunnel G4 Working Overtime (in the full XTC sense of that expression), so I have no idea whether it managed to crank out that kind of volume. It just seems unlikely, so I was suggesting that Apple'd used some other way of assessing the noise. Sorry if this wasn't clear.
Oh, and as a final observation...
Now, being British, I'm generally not in favour of creeping to the French...but perhaps we all need to go grovelling to MacBidioulle at the earliest opportunity?
Then maybe they'll tell us how they got that inside track r.e. the product and the stats.
Tsch, and there was me thinking French Intelligence was something of an oxymoron...
Brother Mugga
* Edit: BOLLOCKS...by the time I posted this first time, half the world had got there before me. What's the bleedin' point of doing a physics degree if the one time you get to swank around about it, every other bugger jumps in first, eh? I have so little in life, how *could* you all take even that away from me...
MacBidouille was French-Canadian, wasn't it? So theres no need for us Brits to grovelling to any French people!
By the way, has anyone else noticed the complete lack of 15" Albooks?
The case design is beatifull, functional and clean. I hated the "lozenge" g3/4
The dual machine is at a sweet price performance point, I WILL HAVE ONE !! however ...The false and misleading claims re
1/ being the first 64bit desktop chip
2/ being the fastest desktop
3/ spec scores for the single config
are really disapointing and a play to the gullible, whoever makes these marketting decisions should be fired, actually beaten first then fired. Its disingenuine at least and dishonest at worst. Let me illustrate each of these points.
1/ The opteron was first, for servers AND workstations
servers and workstations
These have been shipping since april. Look at the dual opteron workstations by www.boxxtech.com for instance. Heres a list of other manufactures making opteron workstations.
@Xi Computer Corporation
Alienware® Corporation
Angstrom Microsystems
BOXX Technologies Inc.
Colfax International
Concordia Graphics
Core Microsystems
DigitalScape Corporation
Einux
Hypersonic PC
Max Black
MaxVision Corporation
NTSI
Polywell Computers
Si Computer Italy
Sys Technology, Inc.
2/ The opteron is faster, This is why the G5 was only compared to intels 32 bit chips. It's currently doing 21.2 spec int for the 240 and 26.8 spec int for the 244. Spec fp is 22.7 and 26.7 respectively, compare that to the g5's 17.2 specint and 15.7 specfp.
opteron spec int, dual
opteron spec fp
3/ The single proccesor scores being compared to the p4 are for a 2ghz G5. Only problem is you can't buy a single 2ghz G5. So multiply those scores by .9 for the 1.8ghz (actually available) G5 and by .8 for the 1.6ghz model and what do we get compared to the P4, we get a mid range purchasable G5 thats a bit faster at fp a P4 and slower at int and a low end G5 thats just plain slower.
Doesnt look so good but at least its HONEST.
The dual is a really nice machine, I want one badly, its good value for the $$. However I think we could all do without the phoney hype. It's something Ive allways despised about Apple, they pitch there products like they are pitching to suckers.
The dual machine is at a sweet price performance point, I WILL HAVE ONE !! however ...The false and misleading claims re
1/ being the first 64bit desktop chip
2/ being the fastest desktop
3/ spec scores for the single config
are really disapointing and a play to the gullible, whoever makes these marketting decisions should be fired, actually beaten first then fired. Its disingenuine at least and dishonest at worst. Let me illustrate each of these points.
1/ The opteron was first, for servers AND workstations
servers and workstations
These have been shipping since april. Look at the dual opteron workstations by www.boxxtech.com for instance. Heres a list of other manufactures making opteron workstations.
@Xi Computer Corporation
Alienware® Corporation
Angstrom Microsystems
BOXX Technologies Inc.
Colfax International
Concordia Graphics
Core Microsystems
DigitalScape Corporation
Einux
Hypersonic PC
Max Black
MaxVision Corporation
NTSI
Polywell Computers
Si Computer Italy
Sys Technology, Inc.
2/ The opteron is faster, This is why the G5 was only compared to intels 32 bit chips. It's currently doing 21.2 spec int for the 240 and 26.8 spec int for the 244. Spec fp is 22.7 and 26.7 respectively, compare that to the g5's 17.2 specint and 15.7 specfp.
opteron spec int, dual
opteron spec fp
3/ The single proccesor scores being compared to the p4 are for a 2ghz G5. Only problem is you can't buy a single 2ghz G5. So multiply those scores by .9 for the 1.8ghz (actually available) G5 and by .8 for the 1.6ghz model and what do we get compared to the P4, we get a mid range purchasable G5 thats a bit faster at fp a P4 and slower at int and a low end G5 thats just plain slower.
Doesnt look so good but at least its HONEST.
The dual is a really nice machine, I want one badly, its good value for the $$. However I think we could all do without the phoney hype. It's something Ive allways despised about Apple, they pitch there products like they are pitching to suckers.
Blame Canada
Oh thank god.
Tsch...why didn't you post this last night, mate?
I'm on NO sleep from all the worry about having to crawl through that damn tunnel...
Brother Mugga
Oh thank god.
Tsch...why didn't you post this last night, mate?
I'm on NO sleep from all the worry about having to crawl through that damn tunnel...
Brother Mugga
Let look at the facts here guys. The Opterons in my opinion would make for kick ass workstations...but unfortunatly, till only recently, they have NOT been marketed as such. Chipset vendors are only now starting to DEMO boards with AGP that support dual Opterons...one manufacture is out of the gate with a dual AGP system...thats Boxx. I guess Apple could have compared these systems, but I haven't even heard that they are shipping (well, not that the G5s are, in that case). NO boards are currently avalable as OME or Retail (with AGP). One or two have been *announced*, but try to find one...you won't have luck (heh, if you do, PM me
). Heh, then again, the onboard graphics that come on these server boards are hardly less than what **** we get stuck with on the G5. Here's hoping to some support from nVIDIA and ATI to get workstation class boards on our platform.BOXX Technologies First to Ship Dual AMD Opteron Workstations
Austin, TX June 3, 2003 BOXX Technologies, a leading developer of XXtreme awardwinning
digital content creation systems for the design, entertainment and digital film industries
today announced its new 3DBOXX M4 workstations featuring dual AMD Opteron 240, 242 and
244 processors are now shipping.
Our early collaborative efforts with a number of motherboard manufacturers have given us a
jump start on the competition, says Ed Caracappa, director of sales and marketing and BOXX
Technologies. Were proud to offer our customers the 64-bit performance advantage of AMD
Opteron technology and are geared up to deliver the first dual Opteron processor workstations in
the industry.
Designed for Microsoft Windows or Linux, 3DBOXX M4 workstations are enhanced with NVIDIA
Quadro architecture and optimized for modeling and rendering 3D content and animation with
popular software programs such as Maya, 3ds max, Softimage XSI, LightWave 3D, and Houdini.
Pricing and Availability
The new dual AMD Opteron-based 3DBOXX M4 workstations are currently available. For more
details or to configure BOXX systems to your specifications, visit the BOXX website at
www.boxxtech.com. Customers may also contact the BOXX sales team by calling 877-877-
BOXX (toll free within N. America) or 512-835-0400, or via email at sales@boxxtech.com.
Austin, TX June 3, 2003 BOXX Technologies, a leading developer of XXtreme awardwinning
digital content creation systems for the design, entertainment and digital film industries
today announced its new 3DBOXX M4 workstations featuring dual AMD Opteron 240, 242 and
244 processors are now shipping.
Our early collaborative efforts with a number of motherboard manufacturers have given us a
jump start on the competition, says Ed Caracappa, director of sales and marketing and BOXX
Technologies. Were proud to offer our customers the 64-bit performance advantage of AMD
Opteron technology and are geared up to deliver the first dual Opteron processor workstations in
the industry.
Designed for Microsoft Windows or Linux, 3DBOXX M4 workstations are enhanced with NVIDIA
Quadro architecture and optimized for modeling and rendering 3D content and animation with
popular software programs such as Maya, 3ds max, Softimage XSI, LightWave 3D, and Houdini.
Pricing and Availability
The new dual AMD Opteron-based 3DBOXX M4 workstations are currently available. For more
details or to configure BOXX systems to your specifications, visit the BOXX website at
www.boxxtech.com. Customers may also contact the BOXX sales team by calling 877-877-
BOXX (toll free within N. America) or 512-835-0400, or via email at sales@boxxtech.com.
Yes, using a Intel compiler, a Dual 3.06 Xeon system would typically score 21-22+. With other compilers, the Xeon would pull off a 19-22 depending on the compiler. A score of around 11 that the Xeon System got is about half of what you would get for other compilers which really doesn't make sense when you compare how well the GCC compiled Pentium 4 and PPC970 fared against other Pentium 4 and PPC970 scores using other compilers.
GCC is generally poorer than the compilers used by Intel and IBM and most other compilers used for that matter, hence the PPC970 scores for the 2 GHz model were actually below IBM's own scores done with Visual Age, however it doesn't warrant a 50+% difference as seen on the Xeon rates.
sparkplug:
Before you go and kick in Apple's teeth over SPEC scores, make sure to check what compiler AMD used for the links you posted (I think they used an Intel compiler but I didn't look). Apple's use of GCC 3.3 is very significant, and yeilds significantly lower scores than compilers such as Intel's and IBM's.
Its hard to say if Apple did the right thing by using GCC 3.3 for all computers in their tests, but they did state what they did up front, and arguments can be made in their defence. To me, GCC 3.3 is what matters because thats what I use for OSX and Linux.
(Is it just me or is this forum really having performance issues?)
Before you go and kick in Apple's teeth over SPEC scores, make sure to check what compiler AMD used for the links you posted (I think they used an Intel compiler but I didn't look). Apple's use of GCC 3.3 is very significant, and yeilds significantly lower scores than compilers such as Intel's and IBM's.
Its hard to say if Apple did the right thing by using GCC 3.3 for all computers in their tests, but they did state what they did up front, and arguments can be made in their defence. To me, GCC 3.3 is what matters because thats what I use for OSX and Linux.
(Is it just me or is this forum really having performance issues?)
Cubeboy:
Someone over at www.aceshardware.com forums posted links to ICC vs GCC that showed GCC does pretty well when the machine is a P3, but falls well behind when the machine is a P4. I thought that was interesting.
Exscuse me? so is a bsd kernel unix workstation a desktop computer by this reasoning? Or only when it's made by apple?This is marketting logic/speak.
But let's "imagine" that is the case, so get it with windows instead, is it a desktop now? The release is two posts up.
"
If in this case win=first, which are our terms of reference, (these are the terms apple are using after all), then Amd most certainly did "win"
Opteron seems to do well with a GCC compiler although they aren't the highest scores.
CPU: Opteron 1.8 GHz
Compiler: GCC 3.3 (32 bit)
Operating System: Linux x86-64
SPECint Base: 930
SPECfp Base: 1000 (estimate)
CPU: Opteron 1.8 GHz
Compiler: GCC 3.3 (64 bit)
Operating System: Linux x86-64
SPECint Base: 1045
SPECfp Base: 1070 (estimate)
CPU: Opteron 1.8 GHz
Compiler: ICC 7.0
Operating System: Windows Server 2003
SPECint Base: 1095
SPECfp Base: 1122
CPU: Opteron 1.8 GHz
Compiler: GCC 3.3 (32 bit)
Operating System: Linux x86-64
SPECint Base: 930
SPECfp Base: 1000 (estimate)
CPU: Opteron 1.8 GHz
Compiler: GCC 3.3 (64 bit)
Operating System: Linux x86-64
SPECint Base: 1045
SPECfp Base: 1070 (estimate)
CPU: Opteron 1.8 GHz
Compiler: ICC 7.0
Operating System: Windows Server 2003
SPECint Base: 1095
SPECfp Base: 1122
Coincidentally (or not), the 3.2 GHz P4 (800 MHz fsb) was released on the same day as WWDC, so either Intel's trying to steal Apple's thunder, or it's slipping in what could be the last P4 (before P5) while everybody's head is turned towards WWDC, and I wouldn't hold my breath about the prices. Two 3.2 GHz Pentium 4s well cost you over $1000 already.
Re: i think this guy is a liar
I'm very sure he is a mac user. He's just fundamentally against marketing deception and zealots. Which doesn't justify him being an anti-zealot zealot!
-Dr. D.
I'm very sure he is a mac user. He's just fundamentally against marketing deception and zealots. Which doesn't justify him being an anti-zealot zealot!
-Dr. D.
what i see as the best thing about the new release is that we all know that OS X is the best os out there, its just that we have all been waiting for a bit more power to run it on. Who cares if the processor is that little bit better or a little bit slower? Apple is well and truly back in the game!
Cant wait to see the laptop offerings!
Cant wait to see the laptop offerings!
education prices
Must say the education prices are very tempting, especially the 2.0GHz price for educational institutions.
1.6GHz: $1,899
1.8GHz: $2,299
Dual 2.0GHz: $2,849
You can of course go lower if you don't want a modem & a combo drive instead of superdrive.
The institution prices are as usual even better:
1.6GHz: $1,799
1.8GHz: $2,199
Dual 2.0GHz: $2,699
Looking on the Apple Website the performance using HMMER and BLAST were fantastic. A number of labs in my department are already switching over to Macs because of OS X thanks to UNIX (and boy are they ready for X11 1.0 to come out with Panther) this will only fuel the switch over. Also know a few HHMI predoctoral fellows who have been saving their equipment funds until Apple released the G5s, they are very excited.
Must say the education prices are very tempting, especially the 2.0GHz price for educational institutions.
1.6GHz: $1,899
1.8GHz: $2,299
Dual 2.0GHz: $2,849
You can of course go lower if you don't want a modem & a combo drive instead of superdrive.
The institution prices are as usual even better:
1.6GHz: $1,799
1.8GHz: $2,199
Dual 2.0GHz: $2,699
Looking on the Apple Website the performance using HMMER and BLAST were fantastic. A number of labs in my department are already switching over to Macs because of OS X thanks to UNIX (and boy are they ready for X11 1.0 to come out with Panther) this will only fuel the switch over. Also know a few HHMI predoctoral fellows who have been saving their equipment funds until Apple released the G5s, they are very excited.
AMB/Fiber etc
>what IS in those purported boxes at the Apple stores that said<
G5 demos
>why did the VeriTest comparisons not have any AMD processors on it?<
Because from a marketing standpoint the public knows "Intel inside" and there was no reason to confuse the issue. Plus I think they were differentiating between what is in the same market space (e.g. desktop processors).
>G5 iMac
12-18 months at the earliest. Just a guess though
>FibreChannel port on that new Powermac and I'll agree with you.
Just look at the Apple web site in the store under a custom option. Pick "Fibre Channel Card".
>what IS in those purported boxes at the Apple stores that said<
G5 demos
>why did the VeriTest comparisons not have any AMD processors on it?<
Because from a marketing standpoint the public knows "Intel inside" and there was no reason to confuse the issue. Plus I think they were differentiating between what is in the same market space (e.g. desktop processors).
>G5 iMac
12-18 months at the earliest. Just a guess though
>FibreChannel port on that new Powermac and I'll agree with you.
Just look at the Apple web site in the store under a custom option. Pick "Fibre Channel Card".
Fibre Channel is available
> But wasn't there a question about whether that port was fiber channel or optical in/out<
Just since I keep seeing this, there is a Fibre Channel card available in BTO:
"A Fibre Channel PCI card is required to connect Xserve RAID to Power Mac G5. Apple's PCI card is Dual Channel 2Gb Fibre Channel, and includes two 2.9-meter Copper Fibre Channel HSSDC2 to SFP (Small Form Factor Pluggable) interconnect cables to connect directly to Xserve RAID or a 2GB Fibre Channel switch."
> But wasn't there a question about whether that port was fiber channel or optical in/out<
Just since I keep seeing this, there is a Fibre Channel card available in BTO:
"A Fibre Channel PCI card is required to connect Xserve RAID to Power Mac G5. Apple's PCI card is Dual Channel 2Gb Fibre Channel, and includes two 2.9-meter Copper Fibre Channel HSSDC2 to SFP (Small Form Factor Pluggable) interconnect cables to connect directly to Xserve RAID or a 2GB Fibre Channel switch."
I seriously doubt that. If we're lucky, the DP 2 GHz will be in stores in early September, maybe in volume a few weeks after that. They aren't going to ramp up that quickly. Some are saying the 90nm process will be needed to get beyond 2GHz. 3GHz in a year is not that impressive. 50% faster in 12 months is not even keeping up with the distorted "moore's laws" view which says 100% faster every 18 months (yes, I know the real moore's law is 100% more transistors every 18 months, but Wintel has been able to basically meet the speed based definition). I know the P4 is not SMP capable, but with a 3.2 out, that means a Xeon is not far behind at that speed, if not out already.
why 2nd optical drive?
Are you burning DVD/CD 24 hours a day seven days a week? Obviously, it is hard to see any of us doing this, unless you are trying to burn prirated software in Thailand. A small porn business in home? Just teasing.
Personally, I don't see a need for a CD-RW or a superdrive. With hard disk back up solution and iPod, optical disk seems so passe . Large file that need to be deliver, can be done using P2P with broadband or ftp.
Are you burning DVD/CD 24 hours a day seven days a week? Obviously, it is hard to see any of us doing this, unless you are trying to burn prirated software in Thailand. A small porn business in home?
Just teasing.Personally, I don't see a need for a CD-RW or a superdrive. With hard disk back up solution and iPod, optical disk seems so passe
. Large file that need to be deliver, can be done using P2P with broadband or ftp.Re: they only have g3s not g5s
This is from the new webmaster. The other one was fired last week.
This is from the new webmaster. The other one was fired last week.
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