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PowerMac G5: World's Fastest Desktop Computer
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I went to the keynote presentation at the local Apple store, and ordered a dual 2 Ghz right after. I know it's usually best to wait for rev B, but I can't wait that long 
I'm very pleased with today's presentation.
I'm very pleased with today's presentation.
I'm a happy Mac user. I'm tempted to wait for a rev. 2 (if just for cheaper DP2Ghz machines, cause I'm poor), but I'm seriously drooling over some of the most competitive machines Apple has produced to date.
Basically, if there was anthing--ANYTHING--people were hoping for, it's in these boxes. They've shipped duals right off the bat (there was question, remember), they're shipping 2Ghz machines (most early reports were hoping for 1.8 at the top), they've got Serial ATA for the HDs (don't remember many rumors claiming that), USB2.0 (along with FW800 and 1000BT, of course) for the external stuff, optical audio (even in!) for the surround sound crowd, PCI-X for expansion (again, I don't remember many hopeful rumors on that front), 8x AGP for graphics, and you can get a Radeon 9800 if it's worth the money to you. And the prices aren't far off of what the last generation cost at announcement.
That, as far as I'm concerned, makes this our big turning point. If Apple (and IBM) can sustain the momentum, it'll all be uphill from now on.
http://www.barefeats.com/fire35.html
Now, I like sticking stuff in my case because it's clean and a bit cheaper, and I was a bit disappointed at the limited external bays, too...
But the fact is external FW (or USB2 if you're really cheap) cases are really reasonable now, and are going to get even cheaper. Put as many external drives on your desk as you want if 500GB internally isn't enough. Same goes for the optical drives--sure, it'd be nice to have two, but my old DP533 doesn't, either, and I'm fine--just get a $40 FW400 case, it'll be just as fast.
The case looks the way it does, has limited expansion, and is slightly less accessable for a reason: awsome airflow. Wish for a particular design all you want, cooling is what really counts in the end if you want your computer to keep running reliably for years. Heat is what kills any computer part, period. This case has cooling like nobody's business--I was frankly amazed looking at the cutaway demos on Apple's site, and the design makes perfect sense when viewed that way.
This box is form following function, and with all the function it's packin', I think the form is just fine. Nobody's going to be accusing us of using "toy" computers any more, that's for sure.
Basically, if there was anthing--ANYTHING--people were hoping for, it's in these boxes. They've shipped duals right off the bat (there was question, remember), they're shipping 2Ghz machines (most early reports were hoping for 1.8 at the top), they've got Serial ATA for the HDs (don't remember many rumors claiming that), USB2.0 (along with FW800 and 1000BT, of course) for the external stuff, optical audio (even in!) for the surround sound crowd, PCI-X for expansion (again, I don't remember many hopeful rumors on that front), 8x AGP for graphics, and you can get a Radeon 9800 if it's worth the money to you. And the prices aren't far off of what the last generation cost at announcement.
That, as far as I'm concerned, makes this our big turning point. If Apple (and IBM) can sustain the momentum, it'll all be uphill from now on.
No, external HDs aren't slow now. You can read the BareFeats article if you want, but the upshot is an HD on a FW800 bus and one on ATA-133 are nearly identical in performance:
http://www.barefeats.com/fire35.html
Now, I like sticking stuff in my case because it's clean and a bit cheaper, and I was a bit disappointed at the limited external bays, too...
But the fact is external FW (or USB2 if you're really cheap) cases are really reasonable now, and are going to get even cheaper. Put as many external drives on your desk as you want if 500GB internally isn't enough. Same goes for the optical drives--sure, it'd be nice to have two, but my old DP533 doesn't, either, and I'm fine--just get a $40 FW400 case, it'll be just as fast.
The case looks the way it does, has limited expansion, and is slightly less accessable for a reason: awsome airflow. Wish for a particular design all you want, cooling is what really counts in the end if you want your computer to keep running reliably for years. Heat is what kills any computer part, period. This case has cooling like nobody's business--I was frankly amazed looking at the cutaway demos on Apple's site, and the design makes perfect sense when viewed that way.
This box is form following function, and with all the function it's packin', I think the form is just fine. Nobody's going to be accusing us of using "toy" computers any more, that's for sure.
With a 5 zone air intake and exhaust system the G5 bears some superficial resemblance to a jet engine. The difference is that the G5 produces only 35 db of sound -- that's quiet. As much as I would like a fanless cube, the G5 appears to be so quiet that it will approach the gold standard of being silent.
Just a couple of observations...
I've been waiting to switch for about a year now and so have been following the boards and rumour sites closely.
In this context, some of the comments here are amazing.
You've just been handed an extremely competitively priced (certainly the top two), blisteringly fast machine that is (apparently) half the audible volume of the old 'wind tunnel...'*
...and all some people can do is moan about the case design (which probably favours efficiency and airflow over form and looks a *lot* nicer in the flesh...although I'd like to have seen an 'Apple' logo on the front, picked out in a denser mesh (if you see what I mean)).
Oh, and worry about whether future scaling of the processor will make your G5 purchase seem slow.
Er, as a previous poster put it; welcome to Moore's Law. Surely you WANT this to happen? Or would you rather be stuck with Motorola's '200MHz every six months' juggernaut of scaling?
Dear oh dear.
Some Mac-fanatics are *pre-tty* hard to please.
Right, where's mi' credit card...
Brother Mugga
PS: First time I've managed to catch the 'Steve Show' on Quicktime. Ahhhhh, bless 'im.
PPS: Now all Apple's got to do is open a London store and I'll be sorted.
*although I'm presuming this is on the ear, rather than decibels...surely the wind tunnel wasn't 70db (!!)?
I've been waiting to switch for about a year now and so have been following the boards and rumour sites closely.
In this context, some of the comments here are amazing.
You've just been handed an extremely competitively priced (certainly the top two), blisteringly fast machine that is (apparently) half the audible volume of the old 'wind tunnel...'*
...and all some people can do is moan about the case design (which probably favours efficiency and airflow over form and looks a *lot* nicer in the flesh...although I'd like to have seen an 'Apple' logo on the front, picked out in a denser mesh (if you see what I mean)).
Oh, and worry about whether future scaling of the processor will make your G5 purchase seem slow.
Er, as a previous poster put it; welcome to Moore's Law. Surely you WANT this to happen? Or would you rather be stuck with Motorola's '200MHz every six months' juggernaut of scaling?
Dear oh dear.
Some Mac-fanatics are *pre-tty* hard to please.
Right, where's mi' credit card...
Brother Mugga
PS: First time I've managed to catch the 'Steve Show' on Quicktime. Ahhhhh, bless 'im.
PPS: Now all Apple's got to do is open a London store and I'll be sorted.
*although I'm presuming this is on the ear, rather than decibels...surely the wind tunnel wasn't 70db (!!)?
Lokii:
PowerBook User:
Apple couldn't release the iMac with a G5 any time soon even if they wanted to. They just don't have enough engineers to redesign and test all their hardware so quickly. The G5 iMac will only happen after the Xserve and AluBooks go G5. I'm guessing at least a year and a half before there is any real chance of a G5 iMac. In the mean time, Apple can use faster 7455's and 7457's.
PowerBook User:
I'd give this a 0% chance of happening.
Well said, Mugga.
Some people here are just the "picky" types, like a small child with a bloody nose who doesn't know why.
Some people here are just the "picky" types, like a small child with a bloody nose who doesn't know why.
Oh, I'll admit, so I was wrong
G5s are here when I said "don't get your hopes up, not until MWSF!"
I'm just glad they're finally here and now I can order one, but closer to the time they get released (Sept. 1).
It's good to see Apple back on top of their game again. Now, here we go!
2 Dual Ghz G5, here I come!
And when the G5 PowerBook 17 incher gets released, I'll be there too!!
Great show guys, best day in Apple history that will get them 4-6% more market share.
And great coverage Arn!
G5s are here when I said "don't get your hopes up, not until MWSF!"
I'm just glad they're finally here and now I can order one, but closer to the time they get released (Sept. 1).
It's good to see Apple back on top of their game again. Now, here we go!
2 Dual Ghz G5, here I come!
And when the G5 PowerBook 17 incher gets released, I'll be there too!!
Great show guys, best day in Apple history that will get them 4-6% more market share.
And great coverage Arn!
New PowerMacs are lacking an L3 Cache. I just noticed this. Does this matter, or is this new system not in need of it?
I don't think most people are complaining (at least I'm not). I was just commenting on something that could make it a little better (like in a later revision). I'm actually VERY happy about the new Power Macs. They're much better than I expected! Faster, 64-bit, AGP 8x, USB 2.0, 1 GHz bus, SuperDrive standard, PCI-X, serial ATA hard drives, etc.
Re: Just a couple of observations...
Half the audible volume is not the same as half the decibels. Decibels are measured on a proportional scale (which I don't remember the specifics of).
Half the audible volume is not the same as half the decibels. Decibels are measured on a proportional scale (which I don't remember the specifics of).
don't ever pinch me
oooooo... let the folding begin. and the dick measuring, can't forget that.
oooooo... let the folding begin. and the dick measuring, can't forget that.
Not that bad!
For all the whiners...not only is this the fastest desktop on the planet, it also grates cheese and functions as a space heater and hair dryer (just face it backwards). So quit complaining! Can your G4 do that?
For all the whiners...not only is this the fastest desktop on the planet, it also grates cheese and functions as a space heater and hair dryer (just face it backwards). So quit complaining! Can your G4 do that?
Oh my god! I want to take everyone who is complaining about price and beat them with a STICK!
These are PRO machines for PRO users. Not consumer switchers. for the love of god, the now price-reduced G4 powermacs are VERY fast and VERY cheap.
Also, why do you people bitch about not having an extra optical drive? How many people need something MORE than a superdrive? Very very few. And if you do, great. Get an external. Simple. Same with the hard drives. You really need more than 160GB or so? REALLY? OK, that is great, very very few people do. So if you do, get an external. Simple.
The G5 is form, it is function, and it is VERY reasonably priced. In the name of all that is holy, don't be such whiny biatches!
These are PRO machines for PRO users. Not consumer switchers. for the love of god, the now price-reduced G4 powermacs are VERY fast and VERY cheap.
Also, why do you people bitch about not having an extra optical drive? How many people need something MORE than a superdrive? Very very few. And if you do, great. Get an external. Simple. Same with the hard drives. You really need more than 160GB or so? REALLY? OK, that is great, very very few people do. So if you do, get an external. Simple.
The G5 is form, it is function, and it is VERY reasonably priced. In the name of all that is holy, don't be such whiny biatches!
The presentation was first rate. All I can say is did you see the photoshop and mathmatica demos. The G5 is fast, very fast. Who gives a **** about SPEC scores when you can show real world ass kicking like that. The data throughput is rediculous. They even made special note to reassure everyone that the G5 is very scalable (won't get stuck at 500Mhz).
The people that should be worried are Sun and SGI. The G5 is without a doubt the fastest Unix Workstation ever, that will even run Office.
I had one observation as I was watching the Stevenote. It is kinda of funny that first M$ and now IBM have come through to bail Apple out. 2 of the 3 companies that person through the hammer through in 1984. I hope they stay away from Intel though.
Does anyone else think the case is similar to a VME crate?
The people that should be worried are Sun and SGI. The G5 is without a doubt the fastest Unix Workstation ever, that will even run Office.
I had one observation as I was watching the Stevenote. It is kinda of funny that first M$ and now IBM have come through to bail Apple out. 2 of the 3 companies that person through the hammer through in 1984. I hope they stay away from Intel though.
Does anyone else think the case is similar to a VME crate?
AWESOME!
Steve and Apple didn't let us down! Time to break out the champagne boys and girls! I actually LOVE the new design, and all of the specs are very impressive... I'm very happy IBM was there - they have a great personal stake in the processor wars, and to be honest, have the ability to kill anything wintel should throw at them from this point foward! It is a good day to be a Mac enthusiast! I remeber reading an article in PC magazine or something when the last iMac came out... It said 'like it or not, what Apple does now is what you'll be seeing on PC's six months from now', which is to say, Apple is the definitive desktop technology leader, most recently of the OS, but now of hardware as well! Very Exciting! HOOOOORAY!!!
Steve and Apple didn't let us down! Time to break out the champagne boys and girls! I actually LOVE the new design, and all of the specs are very impressive... I'm very happy IBM was there - they have a great personal stake in the processor wars, and to be honest, have the ability to kill anything wintel should throw at them from this point foward! It is a good day to be a Mac enthusiast! I remeber reading an article in PC magazine or something when the last iMac came out... It said 'like it or not, what Apple does now is what you'll be seeing on PC's six months from now', which is to say, Apple is the definitive desktop technology leader, most recently of the OS, but now of hardware as well! Very Exciting! HOOOOORAY!!!
My $.02
Responding to a bunch of posts here:
Responding to a bunch of posts here:
- Apple has never compared itself to AMD chips. Why? Some will say that it's because they are scared; others because if you look at PC's from most places, they only put them in their "low end" machines. I have no idea - I assume that Apple's target audience are pro / high-end users who would most-likely buy Intel.
- Why didn't they compare it to an Opteron? Are they released yet? I thought they are still a couple months from being sold. (and AMD is not going to donate one!)
- Echo'ing other's concerns, the use of GCC 3.3 on Intel is sure fodder for x86 geeks (already is on ./ and ArsTechnica discussions) as the MS .Net Studio compiler's produce much more optimized code and, thus, higher SPEC number. (considerably so according to those other forum discussions)
- To the person wanting to know why Apple didn't use dual P4's in the graphs. Check again, they ran them against dual Xeon 3.06Ghz. (There is no such thing as a dual P4 -- except for the Xeon models)
Re: A Step Backwards in Expandability
I was kind of disappointed with this too, but not much. Ill tell you why. As far as I know, SATA has smaller cables and allows for longer cables as well. Ive seen external cases for SATA drives, so probably the storage issue wont be an issue. I cant confirm this will be the fact, but I see very feasible substitutions for storage, XRaid anyone? Also, I saw today an external 200Gb FW800 HD, can somebody post info on how fast is this interface compared to an internal ATA. Perhaps is not a step back, but evolution. For example, why another internal optical bay if an external disc drive would do the same job. The only draw back is that expandability will be more expensive if we decide to go with external solutions. Overall, the only issue for me is the presence of only 3 PCI-X slots. Oh well, perhaps Rev B.
I was kind of disappointed with this too, but not much. Ill tell you why. As far as I know, SATA has smaller cables and allows for longer cables as well. Ive seen external cases for SATA drives, so probably the storage issue wont be an issue. I cant confirm this will be the fact, but I see very feasible substitutions for storage, XRaid anyone? Also, I saw today an external 200Gb FW800 HD, can somebody post info on how fast is this interface compared to an internal ATA. Perhaps is not a step back, but evolution. For example, why another internal optical bay if an external disc drive would do the same job. The only draw back is that expandability will be more expensive if we decide to go with external solutions. Overall, the only issue for me is the presence of only 3 PCI-X slots. Oh well, perhaps Rev B.
Re: Just a couple of observations...
They're not Mac-fanatics, mate, they are trolls that trawl the deep murky slime of the Wintel nether world and surface to breathe and release gas periodically... the burble heard is pleasing only to those tuned to the frequencies permitted by the Evil Empire.
This is one of the greatest days for Apple, Inc. and we are blessed that they forwent incremental changes for a radical leap forward... typical Apple when they aren't hamstrung!
They're not Mac-fanatics, mate, they are trolls that trawl the deep murky slime of the Wintel nether world and surface to breathe and release gas periodically... the burble heard is pleasing only to those tuned to the frequencies permitted by the Evil Empire.
This is one of the greatest days for Apple, Inc. and we are blessed that they forwent incremental changes for a radical leap forward... typical Apple when they aren't hamstrung!
I loved the cow (longhorn).
What's with the PC world and the bovine industry, you have Gateway and their cowhide, Microsoft and Longhorn and a pasture to look at on XP?
What's with the PC world and the bovine industry, you have Gateway and their cowhide, Microsoft and Longhorn and a pasture to look at on XP?
G5 Photos!
Here is the first photo report of the G5, displayed outside the hall, and I understand there are tens of the G5 that attendees can play with.
Contents are in Japanese, but a picture is worth a thousand words, right? (I find the URL very interesting - "pc.watch.impress"?)
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0624/wwdc02.htm
Here is the first photo report of the G5, displayed outside the hall, and I understand there are tens of the G5 that attendees can play with.
Contents are in Japanese, but a picture is worth a thousand words, right? (I find the URL very interesting - "pc.watch.impress"?)
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0624/wwdc02.htm
Re: Re: Just a couple of observations...
The decibel scale is logarithmic. Every 10 dB increase is a doubling of the intensity. Example: A 30 dB sound, when doubled in intensity (read: volume), will be 40 dB. If the new G5 produces 35 dB, that is comparable to the background noise in a suburban community. Very quiet. FYI, 130 dB will cause pain, and 140 dB is the sound intensity of a jet taking of at 25 meters. Ouch.
--DT
The decibel scale is logarithmic. Every 10 dB increase is a doubling of the intensity. Example: A 30 dB sound, when doubled in intensity (read: volume), will be 40 dB. If the new G5 produces 35 dB, that is comparable to the background noise in a suburban community. Very quiet. FYI, 130 dB will cause pain, and 140 dB is the sound intensity of a jet taking of at 25 meters. Ouch.
--DT
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