PPC and Leopard as Daily Driver

[1042686]

Op,

So you can see, there is a huge grey area within the community where one's personal definitions of comfort - their expectations of speed, usability and functionality vary greatly. And the funny thing is is that under differing circumstances, many of these conflicting ideologies are not necessarily wrong. Suffice to say, if you like what you have PPC-wise and it is acceptable to you, we're darn happy you're here, so use it & be happy.

Just remember to post lots of pics of your set up, desktop, new acquisitions as you get them etc. We like pictures. It allows us to live a small part of our techno-lives vicariously through you

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Thanks for the settings; I will try it out. As for the tweaks, I did just that (regarding installation). It became slower. I have had much better luck with Leopard Webkit; it has been faster overall (albeit not as stable). I am typing this from Leopard Webkit right now - with the rich text editor still on - and not experiencing typing lag.
[doublepost=1498693775][/doublepost]

Op,

So you can see, there is a huge grey area within the community where one's personal definitions of comfort - their expectations of speed, usability and functionality vary greatly. And the funny thing is is that under differing circumstances, many of these conflicting ideologies are not necessarily wrong. Suffice to say, if you like what you have PPC-wise and it is acceptable to you, we're darn happy you're here, so use it & be happy.

Just remember to post lots of pics of your set up, desktop, new acquisitions as you get them etc. We like pictures. It allows us to live a small part of our techno-lives vicariously through you

I'd say that the eMac should be good for that which could originally run on it. Web-browsing, however won't just be slow in general; it will be so bad at times that it can hang. It will eventually load things, but it may be more trouble than it's worth. For Web-browsing I suggest using a newer PPC Mac. Otherwise, you should be fine doing work, listening to music, etc. It won't be nearly as fast as others, but it can do those other things just fine, given you optimize your selections.

 

[bunnspecial]

I have never seen him post incorrect info.

I have. I have it printed out and posted in my office

 

[eyoungren]

I have never seen him post incorrect info.

Not quite true.

I own(ed) two Quicksilver 'compatible' ATI Radeon FireGL X3's that don't work in Quicksilvers based on incorrect info.

He's human. That's all that proves.

What makes up for it is that he is seldom wrong and when he is, he hates it and tries his best to fix it.

And he is also willing to admit when he doesn't know, which is every once in a great while.

If not for that, @LightBulbFun would be insufferable.

 

[eyoungren]

Just want to say one of my first video cards in my Leopard using Quicksilver was a PCI Rage 128.

I understand that the Rage 128 is not a Core Image card. I believe it's also not supposed to work at all.

But I provided plenty of proof of it working at the time.

Just putting that out there.

 

[bunnspecial]

If not for that, @LightBulbFun would be insufferable.

Quote of the day!

 

[1042686]

OK, that's fair. I'll take that. I will say that "I" have never seen him error on hardware/software recommendations so we're certainly talking about my personal anecdotal experience with LBF. Speaking of not knowing, ask him sometime about his ... ehhm

microwave ketchup pizza.

Yeah.

 

[LightBulbFun]

microwave ketchup pizza.

Yeah.

your forgot the key ingredient that is sliced cheese

slice of bread spread some ketchup on it, lay down 2 slices of cheese and nuke in the microwave for a minute 20 fold the slice over and bam perfection

 

[bunnspecial]

I understand that the Rage 128 is not a Core Image card. I believe it's also not supposed to work at all.

It will work in Leo and I've used them plenty of times(esp. PCI ones to check an AGP card).

The issue with the Rage 128 is two fold. The first is that it doesn't support Quartz Extreme, which was the rendering engine that I THINK started being used in 10.2(give or take a version). ANY newer PPC-compatible card like a Radeon or a 2MX supports Quartz Extreme(at least over AGP-it typically has to be manually enabled over PCI, and can cause bus congestion issues depending on just what you're doing). Just going from a Rage 128 or other Rage-series GPU to one that supports QE does make a noticeable difference even in Tiger.

As a side note on the QE over PCI thing-if you happen to have a CI-capable PCI card, Tiger and Leopard will enable it. CI is an extension of the QE instruction set, so QE is also enabled. Granted there aren't a lot of CI-Capable PCI cards out there-basically the path of least resistance is to hunt down the "right" FX5200 and flash it. I know mine is PNY branded, has 256mb of VRAM, and dual VGA outputs. I've primarily used it when running Leopard on a B&W or Yikes! in the dedicated PCI GPU slot on these computers.

The second thing is that Apple completely removed all the kexts supporting the Rage 128 from Leopard. It makes sense as no computer that shipped with a Rage 128 supported Leopard. In any case, though, under Leopard the card is just operating as a basic frame buffer so it really drags down the GUI.

 

[eyoungren]

It will work in Leo and I've used them plenty of times(esp. PCI ones to check an AGP card).

The issue with the Rage 128 is two fold. The first is that it doesn't support Quartz Extreme, which was the rendering engine that I THINK started being used in 10.2(give or take a version). ANY newer PPC-compatible card like a Radeon or a 2MX supports Quartz Extreme(at least over AGP-it typically has to be manually enabled over PCI, and can cause bus congestion issues depending on just what you're doing). Just going from a Rage 128 or other Rage-series GPU to one that supports QE does make a noticeable difference even in Tiger.

As a side note on the QE over PCI thing-if you happen to have a CI-capable PCI card, Tiger and Leopard will enable it. CI is an extension of the QE instruction set, so QE is also enabled. Granted there aren't a lot of CI-Capable PCI cards out there-basically the path of least resistance is to hunt down the "right" FX5200 and flash it. I know mine is PNY branded, has 256mb of VRAM, and dual VGA outputs. I've primarily used it when running Leopard on a B&W or Yikes! in the dedicated PCI GPU slot on these computers.

The second thing is that Apple completely removed all the kexts supporting the Rage 128 from Leopard. It makes sense as no computer that shipped with a Rage 128 supported Leopard. In any case, though, under Leopard the card is just operating as a basic frame buffer so it really drags down the GUI.

I should note that at the time, I tried the kexts from Tiger and there was no change when booting. Not that it mattered. It provided the resolution I needed and was only driving a Gateway 18" monitor.

I should mention too, that the G4 I am always on about at work did everything I said it did with an AGP Rage 128 on Leopard.

It worked is all I can say about it.

 

[LightBulbFun]

@appleman1988 why yes indeed vintage macs can be quite the happy experience

 

[LightBulbFun]

Leopard on a G3 beige running a Rage Pro and a Rage 128.... notice the "No Kext Loaded"

 

[iModFrenzy]

So that is why you call yourself iModFrenzy, had been wondering about that.

Eh, a couple years ago after this forum migrated over to Xenforo I wrote a script which places a hide button on each post. In this situation proving to be quite useful.

Haha

That would be very useful, does it work still?

 

[redheeler]

Haha

That would be very useful, does it work still?

Yes, not much has changed in the design/layout of this forum. Hadn't used it in so long I almost forgot I put it there.

I had made some other stylistic changes, such as implementing the San Francisco font instead of default Verdana. Makes the forum look a little bit nicer.

 

[iModFrenzy]

Yes, not much has changed in the design/layout of this forum. Hadn't used it in so long I almost forgot I put it there.

Ah that's good, and ahah, which browser does the script work with?

 

[redheeler]

Ah that's good, and ahah, which browser does the script work with?

I had made up a custom Safari extension, but thanks to Apple's recent changes to Safari extension signing it has turned into a pain (having to reinstall every time I start the browser). The only way around this annoyance is to become a paid developer for $99/year and sign the extension (or simply build an extension for a different browser which doesn't have such stupid restrictions).

Fortunately, it can be made to work with an extension like Tampermonkey.

 

[iModFrenzy]

I had made up a custom Safari extension, but thanks to Apple's recent changes to Safari extension signing it has turned into a pain (having to reinstall every time I start the browser). The only way around this annoyance is to become a paid developer for $99/year and sign the extension (or simply build an extension for a different browser which doesn't have such stupid restrictions).

Fortunately, it can be made to work with an extension like Tampermonkey.

Oh okay, thats awesome, but yeah the 99$ fee is annoying alright.

But that's good that it works.

 

[Phil A.]

Mod Note

I've tidied this thread up now and posts that quoted deleted ones have also been removed. If I have missed anything, please report them and don't reply as that just makes more work

 

[MacCubed]

Mod Note

I've tidied this thread up now and posts that quoted deleted ones have also been removed. If I have missed anything, please report them and don't reply as that just makes more work

Thank you. You deserve an award

 

[LightBulbFun]

Mod Note

I've tidied this thread up now and posts that quoted deleted ones have also been removed. If I have missed anything, please report them and don't reply as that just makes more work

we do genuinely appreciate the hard work you put into keeping the forum a good place,

and for that we thank you greatly and Good morning

 

[MacSoftware3]

Thanks for all the tips. I expect my recently purchased G4 MDD 867MHz DP with 1.5GB RAM to be faster than my 700MHz eMac, also with TFF? I also have a PC ATI Radeon 9200SE, will that work (better)?

 

[amagichnich]

Mod Note

I've tidied this thread up now and posts that quoted deleted ones have also been removed. If I have missed anything, please report them and don't reply as that just makes more work

I'm sorry but I hate every kind of censorship /editorial control! (We have a wee bit of experience with that in eastern germany ) IMHO it's mandatory to keep the insults in the forum to learn from them, to not make the same mistakes again.
Also I really love a good fight and miss them every time because it's night here in Europe when you usually fight And with the censorship it's like i missed a nuklear war! I go to bed, every country fires all it has, we all survive through a miracle, they clean up and when I wake up they pretend everything is as it was before be honest, nobody wants to miss a nuklear war

Fun/Ironie/Sarkasm away: It's mandatory to control and censor a forum, but some times it is better to keep the diskussion, or at least archive it, as it could be helpful in the future

 

[SuperKerem]

I'm sorry but I hate every kind of censorship /editorial control! (We have a wee bit of experience with that in eastern germany ) IMHO it's mandatory to keep the insults in the forum to learn from them, to not make the same mistakes again.
Also I really love a good fight and miss them every time because it's night here in Europe when you usually fight And with the censorship it's like i missed a nuklear war! I go to bed, every country fires all it has, we all survive through a miracle, they clean up and when I wake up they pretend everything is as it was before be honest, nobody wants to miss a nuklear war

Fun/Ironie/Sarkasm away: It's mandatory to control and censor a forum, but some times it is better to keep the diskussion, or at least archive it, as it could be helpful in the future

Yeah, now I have no idea what was said, and the thread has become incoherent. We all should be able to handle the occasional off-topic comment, it doesn’t necessarily have to be deleted.
[doublepost=1498735506][/doublepost]

Thanks for all the tips. I expect my recently purchased G4 MDD 867MHz DP with 1.5GB RAM to be faster than my 700MHz eMac, also with TFF? I also have a PC ATI Radeon 9200SE, will that work (better)?

That dual processor should make things a lot more comfortable!

 

[bunnspecial]

Guys,

Just a couple of things if you missed the mess of last night:

We had a poster who "went off the deep end" so to speak. Initially, several of us tried to actually have a conversation with him, but it quickly turned into that same poster posting ethnic and homophobic slurs directed at everyone who disagreed with him rather than actually engage in debate. There was also a good amount of gratuitous porn thrown in for good measure.

Healthy debate is a good thing. Trash is not.

Also, remember that MR is privately owned and the folks in charge have full control over what is allowed to be said and not said. We have been given a dedicated discussion area to discuss sensitive topics(PRSI) but even there proper decorum is expected.

 

[amagichnich]

Healthy debate is a good thing. Trash is not.

I fully agree! As i was asleep at the time I didn't know it was as bad as that.

Also, remember that MR is privately owned and the folks in charge have full control over what is allowed to be said and not said. We have been given a dedicated discussion area to discuss sensitive topics(PRSI) but even there proper decorum is expected.

But here I disagree a bit. Precisely because of MR being privately owned they don't have to care about 'big company owned by Warren Buffett standards' and could sometimes let a hot blooded discussion be what it is and not censor it.
In this case now I totally agree with the removal of the trash, that has no right being here.
About decorum... we are not the roman rhetorical elite and we are writing, not discussing in person. That leaves a big potential for misunderstanding emotions which may lead very fast to a non virtuous 'dispute'.

Now with all that being said I'm truly sorry for misusing this post. Also I'm not a hot blooded one and really prefer a peaceful debate where we all love each other. But I know that not everyone is like me and therefore accept an occasionally bloody discussion and find it quite useful as it teaches me how to not treat some members because of the way they react.