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What do you mean "for free"? At a minimum, an integrated ATV DRV would need to come with some tuner hardware to capture TV content. It will also need scheduling/recording software, EPG, etc. Even if Apple were to include all that into ATV as we know it, it would certainly not be "free"!

Elgato spent years getting a Mac-based DVR (EyeTV) right and it still has some kinks. And they sell it for a very reasonable price, and offer all the integration you need with iTunes/ATV/iPods.

There is just no way Apple is going to get into this business, and like I said - they simply don't need to.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm talking about local TV stations broadcasting the major networks into your home. It's free. You just need the tuner and a TV to enjoy. Apple should build this tuner into the AppleTV.

As I said above, Apple has patented DVR software. If you buy elgato's products, you're not spending with Apple. Don't you think Apple wants your money?
 
LOL - I wonder what the chances are of the 160gb model being £195 on the UK store?

I hope this does mean a software update soon... I don't care about hardware... I'd rather have some half-decent software for this thing than new hardware!
 
Carry on dreaming.

That's a SATA drive, the AppleTV uses PATA drives.

Yeah, and it's beyond possibility that Apple would change to using the same SATA interface all their other products use when they next do a hardware refresh ...

Primarily, though, the reason the ATV and Time Capsule can't merge is that they have different reliability needs. The AppleTV is a peripheral device; if the HD crashes and is replaced, all the data can be pulled again from your main computer. The Time Capsule is intended as a fast, reliable, always-on NAS device. If that fails, there are serious consequences.

I can't see Apple going to a notebook-format HD in a Time Capsule type of device. I also can't see them going to a server-format HD in an AppleTV type device (not without seriously cutting down on all the other components in there and making it bigger as well).

So, likelihood of the Time Capsule and ATV merging is a bit slim, and probably wouldn't be the best thing for us consumers anyway.
 
I think you misunderstood me. I'm talking about local TV stations broadcasting the major networks into your home. It's free. You just need the tuner and a TV to enjoy. Apple should build this tuner into the AppleTV.

Right, but the proper DRV/tuner is going to cost money to implement. So you're going to pay that money, whether it's to Apple or Elgato. I personally like the idea of DVR running on my Mac server, rather than ATV. This way I can store all the DVR recordings centrally and distribute them to multiple ATV's around my house.

As I said above, Apple has patented DVR software. If you buy elgato's products, you're not spending with Apple. Don't you think Apple wants your money?

Apple already stated that DVR goes against their iTunes business model. So whatever extra costs they will charge for DVR will be offset by loss in iTunes content revenues (or so they think). The fact that they have patented some DVR interface components means absolutely nothing - Apple (as other companies) file for hundreds and thousands of patents for different concepts. Only a few ever become products that see the light of day.
 
Discontinued...to be replaced by something FAR better!

Pure speculation but...

Apple TV to be discontinued. Replaced by the new tablet device, which looks like a 10" version of the ipod touch, 64GB or 128GB SSD, runs iphone OS, can access web-based streaming media over wi-fi, can synch with itunes (audio, video, podcasts etc), download from iTunes Store, download/play content from the App store (optional b/tooth wireless controllers or iphone/touch as remote), email, ...and can connect to your HD TV via a dock.

Priced at $600 (64GB model) and $800 (128GB model).

Now the people who understand this technology can tell me why it won't work...but it sound like fun, right?!
 
Home Sharing ALMOST fixed my problems. While it's a big step forward, it doesn't quite fix my problem. What I would like to have is a iTunes-server that contains all contents of my and my wifes libraries. The key would be that when either of us adds content to our library, it would also be added to the server. Home Sharing would fix that if it worked with all content. But it doesn't, it only works with purchased content.

iTunes 9 took me closer to the solution, but it's not quite the solution I'm looking for.

Just to clarify: Home Sharing does work with non-Apple-purchased content (Amazon.com downloads, CD rips, etc), but the automatic synching of purchased content is an iTunes-Store-specific feature. Same as the identical feature on iPod synching (you can only synch an iPod with one computer, but if you connect it to a second on the same iTunes account it will ask if you want to copy purchased music back from the iPod to the second computer).

IMHO, I don't add content often enough for this to be a really big deal. If I rip a CD on one box then home-share it up to the server, that's good.

Again IMHO, the key killer feature missing with Home Sharing is ratings synching. I use the "ratings" feature on iTunes / iPods perhaps more than most (every song in my library has a rating within a few weeks of it being added), and am constantly updating ratings. I've got a bunch of smart playlists which feed off this info, but not having that synch over to the "server" makes the server kinda non-authoritative and defeats the purpose of it being there at all.
 
Pure speculation but...

Apple TV to be discontinued. Replaced by the new tablet device, which looks like a 10" version of the ipod touch, 64GB or 128GB SSD, runs iphone OS, can access web-based streaming media over wi-fi, can synch with itunes (audio, video, podcasts etc), download from iTunes Store, download/play content from the App store (optional b/tooth wireless controllers or iphone/touch as remote), email, ...and can connect to your HD TV via a dock.

Priced at $600 (64GB model) and $800 (128GB model).

Now the people who understand this technology can tell me why it won't work...but it sound like fun, right?!

This has been discussed ad infinitum.. But no, a Tablet is NOT going replace Apple TV. A $600 large screen device with a dock does not replace a $200 permanently connected small-footprint media extender.

The two devices serve different purposes and different use cases, pure and simple.
 
Yes!! Handbraking our DVD collection and keeping the discs popcorn-finger free is wonderful!!

Also took the time to digitize all our old VHS tapes and iDVD collection of family home movies to mp4, which I have painstakingly tagged and categorized as a "TV Show". It's actually the most popular thing the kids love to watch now, 15 "Seasons" of watching themselves grow up. There's no other way that these types of videos would ever have done anything but collect dust otherwise. I continue to be surprised with each new version of iTunes (including 9) that "Home Movies" is left out as a media category.

Every person who has ever seen the :apple:TV in action at my house is astonished by it, and surprised that such a cool thing exists. Not really sure why Apple hasn't hyped it a little more.

I agree. Our last DVD player (a not-cheap Sony, bought just over a year ago) crapped out last month so rather forced the issue of handbraking everything into iTunes / ATV. It's worked very well for us, although the 4-hour wait between popping open a new DVD and letting the kids watch it wasn't sustainable (we went and bought another DVD player last night ... maybe this one will last longer than the Sony, but reading reviews online of new DVD players I'm not overly optimistic; seems like if you wanted a DVD player to last 3-4 years you needed to have bought it a year and a half ago, as they've downgraded components drastically over the past year).

In any case, for those who want to do this, what I do is this:

1. Handbrake all the video bits (unless you just want the movie itself, in which case you can skip most of the rest)
2. Import everything into iTunes
3. For all the Extras, change the Media Type to TV Show, change the Show Name to match the title of the DVD (perhaps plus "Extras")
4. If you are feeling adventurous, name the extras according to what they're labeled in the DVD menus.

If you skip steps 3 and 4 you end up with all the extras in your Movies list and that quickly becomes unmanageable.

I hadn't thought of putting our home videos in as TV Show as well. That will help declutter things too!
 
good DVD players are less than $100 and play a variety of formats including DIVX. YOu can get a cheap Blu-Ray player for under $150, good ones with features like BD-Live for $250 or the PS3 for $299.

Browse reviews for those "good" DVD players and you'll see a disconcerting proportion of "broke after 6 months!" and "no longer recognizing disks" complaints. I can speak from personal experience, having bought a high-end $90 Sony DVD upscaling DVD player less than a year ago which is now nothing more than a light box of electronics on its way to the electronics recycling center. DVD player manufacturers, either intentionally or by market driven, are putting cheap components in there which will force you to rebuy far more quickly than previous generation devices did.

Contrast this to the AppleTV we bought a few months before that Sony DVD player, which is still in use more than any other home entertainment component we've ever had (except the stereo receiver, which is of course always on when the ATV is in use). A year of not breaking isn't exactly a stellar review, but if you're comparing the ATV to a crap DVD player (and, again, I'm pretty certain there is no other kind for sale out there), a year and still running is a major endorsement.
 
Apparently you overlook one point--you don't need to have both machines running full-time.

Negative, I did not overlook that. And weinlu haveonemachine with two user-accounts. But the idea if streaming one if the librariesis not appealing because I might then have the situation where I would first have to walk over to the laptop, wake it ip, log in and start iTunes before I could use AppleTV. O would much rather just use AppleTV andnothing worry about other computers.

So that leaves me with two options:

A) sync from both libraries

b) stream from an iTunes-server

A is not supported, and I'm not sure how to build an iTunes-server that "just works" with zero hassle.
 
This has been discussed ad infinitum.. But no, a Tablet is NOT going replace Apple TV. A $600 large screen device with a dock does not replace a $200 permanently connected small-footprint media extender.

The two devices serve different purposes and different use cases, pure and simple.

Yup, I know there have been extensive discussions on the tablet. And I also agree that, in terms of a product matrix, this would not be replacement for a permanently connected media extender device at a $200 price point. I guess all I am thinking is that Apple has tested the market for such a product at that relatively low price point, and while it has made some sales it hasn't really set the world on fire in the way that, for example, the iphone has, the touch has, or the original ipod before those.

So, in keeping with Apple being about premium prices for premium quality, innovative products, perhaps they've decided that the world is touch, the world is mobile, and that the home media hub also needs to be a portable device.

I currently use a mac mini, in addition to having a couple of mac laptops of varying vintages kicking around the house. I bought the mini rather than an Apple TV precisely because I liked the fact it gives me access to Netflix, Hulu, my email, web browsing etc on top of my itunes content. I paid around $800 for it. If Apple brought out the type of tablet device with dock I described in my last post, I almost certainly swap the mini out for that. Maybe I'm the only person in that segment/mind set, but I'm not so sure.
 
Regarding my AppleTVs, I stated this before, but it's so important to me that I hope someone in the deep depths of Cupertino will channel this to the right people:

1. Take 3 on the UI. It maybe a gateway to the iTunes Store, but please get the front end out of my face, burying my current media at the bottom right corner of each menu. Most of the time, I'm accessing the media I purchased or synced into it, so I'd like to get access to it first before having to sift through a bunch of menu options that are trying to get me to buy and rent.

++ Completely second that.

2. Speed it up. You made good optimizations for Snow Leopard, put some of that expertise in the direction of the AppleTV group. It's just slow as balls since 2.0 came out.

Underneath, the ATV is running OS X 10.4 (Tiger) still, albeit in a "streamlined" form. It's now two full major OS versions behind. Now, many of the Snow Leopard improvements (like removing all PPC code binaries) are already there, but it's gotta cause problems for anyone trying to work on Apple TV software that they can't use any of the best tools which have come available in the past couple of years. As a Mac developer myself, let me assure you that it's always really hard to continue developing software for an OS older than the one you have installed (and as a Mac user it's impossible to not want to install the latest OS on your dev box).

3. Make it a portal to the Internet. Unlike many others, I don't want to hack my AppleTV the same reason I don't want to hack my iPhone. I trust you'll add value to the device that it won't need unofficial third-party support: how about news feeds (RSS), stocks, weather, alarm clock (heck, even just the time will do!). License a voice or two from the Acapela group and get my AppleTV to be my first wave of information in the morning: have it read me the latest news (think Tick Talk on the App Store), or how about news on demand? If my TV can power itself at 5AM, you can schedule the AppleTV to do something at 5:05. Even if you don't put a full-on browser, make it at least show the Weather Channel and show some current headlines.

There are a few directions Apple could go there. One is bringing in the Internet one piece at a time. You saw this with YouTube and Podcast integrations. The other direction is getting Safari working on the ATV.

I think the major thing stopping Apple in the second approach are hardware limitations. The processor in the ATV was slow when it was introduced, a few years ago. It's just not powerful enough to handle things like Flash playing currently (the anemic processor is helped out by a respectable GPU, allowing the ATV to play high-def content easily, but that GPU isn't available to Flash player and I'm not so certain Apple would want to promote Adobe's tech on their platform anyway). Which puts a damper on the "just give them Safari" line of thought. OTOH, a processor as underpowered compared to top-of-the-line processors today as the ATV's processor was at launch would go a long way towards making Safari and Flash work well on the device. Existing customers would get the shaft, of course, which hurts, but it'd be good for the ATV in general.

4. Open the doors for other services. If you won't offer an all-you-can-eat subscription, how about giving the keys to Netflix, so they can do it? How about Skype or iChat with the ability to add a USB webcam mountable on the top of your LCD display? Right there, you expand the possibilities of grandparents in Florida watching movies and photos you're sharing with them from your AppleTV or iTunes/iPhoto/iWeb and being able to do a video chat. No complicated UI's, just a screenname you can scroll down to and click with the AppleTV remote, and initiate a video call. And, you can offer the ability to do surveillance on your house. Watch the babysitter, or watch your kids (think iCam on App Store).

While I can appreciate the desire for video chat, mounting a camera there has a few drawbacks.

First, of course, unless you're dramatically increasing the resolution on the camera, one person's face occupying say 400 pixels across in front of the MacBook is now occupying about 40 pixels across across the room sitting on the couch. If you've ever used an existing MacBook Pro's camera to do video chat and showed someone the "room", you've probably got a good idea of how craptacular such a wide-angle view can be. To get more resolution you'd need to up the iChat AV "pipes" to handle it, which in turn would rule out a lot of grandparents' homes (my in-laws Quest service has a hard time keeping up with iChat AV as it is, often going to low-res mode and periodically just crapping out altogether).

Second, most webcams have fixed focal lengths. Not only would people across the room be squished into a small number of pixels, those pixels are blurry because they are out of focus too.

Not to say it couldn't be done, but I think the ability to see Grandma 50" across instead of 15" across isn't really that beneficial to me.

... To the main point, though, of allowing third-party development: I think that's a natural step for Apple here. The original ATV (and Take 2) was before the iTunes App Store was open for business. I think Apple's been very pleased with the App Store success and will likely want to expand on that.

I have two 160GB AppleTVs in my house, only because 1. connecting and disconnecting iPods/iPhones to the TVs were cumbersome and not that instant to my entire iTunes library, and 2. the Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF) hit an all-time high. You guys couldn't have made the interface and remote much easier to use. Have you seen some of these Windows Media Center and Logitech Harmony remotes? It's a nightmare to the technically challenged.

I still think you've got your hands on a winner in terms of hardware. Now, let's get that software up to snuff, and you'll be AOK in my book.

As soon as ATV Take 3 comes out (presumably with upgraded hardware) our existing 160GB ATV will go up to our bedroom and a new one will be bought for the living room.
 
The Apple TV is getting interesting. Now imagine that Apple does the following :

- replace the hard disk with a 1 or 2 TB
- add the backup functionality of Time Capsule
- increase the price, but in a reasonable way

In other words, merge the Apple TV, Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme into one single product (iServer ?). They would sell it by zillions, and it would not be anymore just a "hobby" for Apple.

hah, or just let us connect a hard drive for flips sake. :rolleyes:

I went with the 40GB when I got mine. No need for me to have everything on the tv when it streams so well. Plus, I got mine new for ~$115 from Circuit City. Was worth it.
 
Right, but the proper DRV/tuner is going to cost money to implement. So you're going to pay that money, whether it's to Apple or Elgato. I personally like the idea of DVR running on my Mac server, rather than ATV. This way I can store all the DVR recordings centrally and distribute them to multiple ATV's around my house.

Sure, it may add to the base price, but to save $X dollars per month on a cable bill, it'd be well worth it. As in your situation, you had to buy a whole other Mac to act as a server and DVR. That's really not cheap.

Apple already stated that DVR goes against their iTunes business model. So whatever extra costs they will charge for DVR will be offset by loss in iTunes content revenues (or so they think). The fact that they have patented some DVR interface components means absolutely nothing - Apple (as other companies) file for hundreds and thousands of patents for different concepts. Only a few ever become products that see the light of day.

I've been following the AppleTV for a long time and I've never seen the statement to which you refer. As for the patents meaning nothing, well, I'll just have to disagree there. As you mentioned above, it took Elgato a long time to get it right. I'm sure apple wouldn't have put the time in unless there was some tangible benefit we've yet to see.
 
Pure speculation but...

Apple TV to be discontinued. Replaced by the new tablet device, which looks like a 10" version of the ipod touch, 64GB or 128GB SSD, runs iphone OS, can access web-based streaming media over wi-fi, can synch with itunes (audio, video, podcasts etc), download from iTunes Store, download/play content from the App store (optional b/tooth wireless controllers or iphone/touch as remote), email, ...and can connect to your HD TV via a dock.

Priced at $600 (64GB model) and $800 (128GB model).

Now the people who understand this technology can tell me why it won't work...but it sound like fun, right?!

Please, tell me how a 10" iPod Touch is going to replace my 52" plasma and Apple TV? Why would I want to pay for yet another screen when I already have one? And I don't recall the last time I wanted to tote my home theater around in my pocket. :rolleyes:
 
I have a mini running as an :apple:tv using this software hack ATV4Mac which installs :apple:TV as a replacement for the standard Front Row.

OS X Front Row is kludgier than the :apple:TV interface, mostly because it does not do a good job of separating TV shows into seasons in a useful way. Also prefer to manage my content from my computer and have it automatically pushed to the :apple:TV rather than having to manually keep the mini's library updated and mucking around with the device attached to my television (though I often do manage it via remote control VNC).

However, as you say, there are advantages to having the mini running "underneath" the :apple:TV, the main one being I have a 1TB firewire drive connected to sync and (therefore backup) my entire media library. Also can run the mini as a server of sorts with shared documents, network backup, syncing services all chugging in the background.

Best of Both Worlds :p

You Sir, are the dogs bollox! ;)

What a great setup! :)
 
Well... if they never add any of those features, this thing will never sell.

All of this talk about DVR and CableCARD makes no sense. Apple is in the business of selling you content from the iTunes store. Why would they make a device to let you get your content from someone else? There is absolutely no way they would consider adding a DVR/CableCARD. ...

Apple will never add these features. What you can expect, however, is higher quality of content from the iTunes store in the future...
I hear you and I know that is what Apple would want, but if they never add any of these features, the Apple TV will remain a small-time niche "hobby" that in the view of many is not a good buy. Apple's biggest business is selling hardware, not the amount they make off of iTunes, but that is good income too. That is my opinion and I am anxious for a living room unit. I have an iMac, there are 3 iPods in our house and there is no way I would spend money on the Apple TV the way it is now. You have to remember that 90% of the content on iPods is music/stuff that people did not buy from Apple (Apple is the source on that) through iTunes. That percentage will grow over time, but it is fantasy to think that people buy the Apple TV unless Apple adds a new key feature. It is NOT selling now as is, that is a fact.

There is a gaping hole in this area in the consumer market and Apple is one of a few companies that could deliver a real winner. TiVO create a huge market and sold a lot of units this decade, the next great product has to have that same capability, but better features on top of a DVR.
 
Please, tell me how a 10" iPod Touch is going to replace my 52" plasma and Apple TV? Why would I want to pay for yet another screen when I already have one? And I don't recall the last time I wanted to tote my home theater around in my pocket. :rolleyes:

Tablet aside, Apple could "make an App for that" that would allow any docked-to-the-TV iPhone/Touch to function exactly like an :apple:TV, playing content from the device's internal drive or streaming content from any computer on the local network.
 
Tablet aside, Apple could "make an App for that" that would allow any docked-to-the-TV iPhone/Touch to function exactly like an :apple:TV, playing content from the device's internal drive or streaming content from any computer on the local network.

I would much prefer Apple hold AT&T's feet to the fire and get them to deliver a robust and reliable phone network than waste time turning a cellphone into a home theater appliance.
 
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