Pricing for AS MacBooks?

[bill-p]

I think at this point, we know almost everything about the upcoming Apple Silicon MacBooks... except for pricing.

How much do you think Apple will charge for these devices? Lower than, same as, or higher than the prices of the MacBooks they are replacing?

My guess? It'll all be higher.

The AS 13" MacBook Air will probably be $1299 with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD. Apple may do $1099 with 128GB SSD but I highly doubt this one will be cheaper than the existing Intel offering if it turns out to be a faster and cooler running machine.

And the 13" Pro? I'd guess it'll be $1799 for 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD.

Now, I guess the whole point of the thread is: will you buy an AS MacBook still when they turn out to be even more expensive than their Intel counterparts?

 

[AppleFeller]

If priced higher I would have to delay my purchase till February but I do not see them raising prices, logically speaking these will cost them less to produce over intel models and they will either increase their profit margins by leaving the price as is or keep them the same and actually undercut existing prices slightly.

 

[EntropyQ3]

I think at this point, we know almost everything about the upcoming Apple Silicon MacBooks... except for pricing.

No we don’t.
We don’t know SoC configuration, memory type, memory capacities, SSD capacities, what ports they will have (with Jony Ive gone can we have ports again please?), what WiFi is supported, battery life, .... the list goes on and on.

We don’t know Jack.

 

[bill-p]

No we don’t.
We don’t know SoC configuration, memory type, memory capacities, SSD capacities, what ports they will have (with Jony Ive gone can we have ports again please?), what WiFi is supported, battery life, .... the list goes on and on.

We don’t know Jack.

Yeah we do.

SoC will most likely have more cores than iPad Air A14 and run at higher clocks.
Memory type is most likely LPDDR4X.
SSD will most likely just be the usual 256/512/1/2/4/8 options.
It'll most likely be WIFI 6 because that's what the iPhone and iPad have.

Edit: and if Apple is reusing the same design? Then yeah, we know exactly how many ports these machines may have, and exactly what ports those are.

And battery life? Obviously won't be that much more than the iPad Air with A14... and that one lasts about 10 hours.

What don't we know aside from price?

 

[johannnn]

Tim has been ALL ABOUT raising ASP and raising margins. I doubt they'll be cheaper than the current laptops.

 

[thenewperson]

Memory type is most likely LPDDR4X

Could have HBM2e there, could even be proprietary. I'm pretty curious about the RAM myself since Apple has mentioned they're using high bandwidth memory, but it's unknown right now if they consider LPDDR4X 'high bandwidth' enough. There's also LPDDR5.

And battery life? Obviously won't be that much more than the iPad Air with A14... and that one lasts about 10 hours

I think for the Air maybe, but the Pros do have higher capacity batteries so they may be able to get more out of them.

But yeah, the rest is likely staying the same. I also have no idea why Jony is being blamed for the ports - he's not the only one that cares for simplicity over there.

Tim has been ALL ABOUT raising ASP and raising margins

Their overall margins have remained the same as far as I'm aware, so it's more accurate to say he's all about raising ASP to maintain current margins. We've also seen cases like the MBA (2019, 2020), iPhone 11, higher configs of iPad Pro (2020) and iPhone 12 Pros that they will reduce ASP and upgrade pricing sometimes, which likely means they're comfortable with the margins they get even with the reductions.

 

[Harvey Zoltan]

I thought the base level ram was going to be 16GB like the developer mini. If this was the case wouldn’t it cancel out any savings made on the change to Apple Silicon?

 

[thenewperson]

I thought the base level ram was going to be 16GB like the developer mini. If this was the case wouldn’t it cancel out any savings made on the change to Apple Silicon?

Not necessarily. There could be a bigger price difference between the switch in CPUs than moving to a 16GB starting config.

 

[leman]

I expect the prices to be slightly lower on the entry level and about the same for the more premium level.

Reasoning: entry level chips will likely be cheaper for Apple to produce, since there is high potential to save costs by reusing them across devices. They will also most likely save additional costs via packaging and logic board reduction (this is again where their technological base with iPhones and iPads will be relevant). Finally, lowering the entry price slightly will be a very effective tool of promoting Apple Silicon Macs.

On the higher end, the chips are going to be more complex and the yields are going to be lower. Also, Apple will have to use a more intricate RAM solution to feed their chips. They will still be able to save on power circuitry and logic board design, but these still will be very expensive machines to make. Apple can pull it of because they are already quite expensive.

At any rate, I am very confident that the customers will get much more value for their money.

 

[UBS28]

To the people who thinks it will cost the same or even less expensive, what???

The current iPad Pro with all accessories (to make it like a "laptop") is around the same price as the current high-end 13" MBP. So in order for the ARM 13" MBP with a better ARM CPU than the iPad Pro to not eat up iPad Pro sales, the ARM 13" MBP will be more expensive to separate itself from the iPad Pro. Else there is no point of buying an iPad Pro with a weaker CPU.

If the ARM 13" MBP will be more expensive, so will the ARM 16" MBP.

 

[leman]

To the people who thinks it will cost the same or even less expensive, what???

The current iPad Pro with all accessories (to make it like a "laptop") is around the same price as the current high-end 13" MBP. So in order for the ARM 13" MBP with a better ARM CPU than the iPad Pro to not eat up iPad Pro sales, the ARM 13" MBP will be more expensive to separate itself from the iPad Pro. Else there is no point of buying an iPad Pro with a weaker CPU.

If the ARM 13" MBP will be more expensive, so will the ARM 16" MBP.

At the same time the iPad Pro has a many components that are more expensive compared to a laptop. Cameras, touchscreen, high-res display panel, ProMotion, scratch-resistant coatings, charging circuitry, magnetic connector, more compact component layout...

I think iPad and MBP are sufficiently different devices so that there is place for both. After all, the current iPad Pro is already faster than the 13" MBP...

 

[UBS28]

At the same time the iPad Pro has a many components that are more expensive compared to a laptop. Cameras, touchscreen, high-res display panel, ProMotion, scratch-resistant coatings, charging circuitry, magnetic connector, more compact component layout...

I think iPad and MBP are sufficiently different devices so that there is place for both. After all, the current iPad Pro is already faster than the 13" MBP...

I am pretty sure a MBP has much better components such as faster RAM, faster SSD, more high-end motherboard. Only the display is probably more expensive.

An iPad Pro is not faster than a MBP at all, maybe if the only thing you do it running Geekbench. In real world workflow, it gets slayed by having to do workarounds which is super easy on a MBP. An iPad Pro is just a big iPhone.

 

[mr_roboto]

I thought the base level ram was going to be 16GB like the developer mini. If this was the case wouldn’t it cancel out any savings made on the change to Apple Silicon?

What does the dev mini have to do with base product specs on the real Apple Silicon products? The answer to my rhetorical question is: nothing. The DTK has no value for predicting anything. It's a one-off intended only to support devs who need something to use while porting and testing software, not a production design for a wider market.

(That single purpose is the reason the DTK has 16GB. It would be a struggle for devs to use a computer with only 8GB. In fact, 16 is on the small side for software dev work, but I'd guess this is a limitation of the A12Z chip Apple borrowed from the iPad Pro.)

 

[leman]

An iPad Pro is not faster than a MBP at all, maybe if the only thing you do it running Geekbench. In real world workflow, it gets slayed by having to do workarounds which is super easy on a MBP. An iPad Pro is just a big iPhone.

Are you talking about performance or about usability? Because I'm quite sure that in regards to raw performance, the iPad Pro will almost always win. It is just awkward to use for many things.

 

[AnthonyHarris]

An iPad Pro is not faster than a MBP at all, maybe if the only thing you do it running Geekbench. In real world workflow, it gets slayed by having to do workarounds which is super easy on a MBP. An iPad Pro is just a big iPhone.

Because I have an iPad Pro and a base model 16 inch MacBook Pro, I just performed a real world experiment.

I used iMovie on both the iPad Pro and the MBP to export the same 4 minute 4K video with the same filter and it took the MacBook Pro twice as long, while spinning up its fans and getting pretty hot. The iPad, on the other hand, was silent and cool to the touch.

It's true that the lack of file system makes the iPad experience less than desirable... One might even say "unintuitive", but the iPad Pros A12Z is a very efficient chip that is *at least* on par with current intel chips.

EDIT* I reset everything because even I thought my MacBook was a little slow first time around.

On the second test, the iPad Pro still beat the MacBook Pro by 10 seconds.

I know for sure that I will be ditching this 16 inch Intel Mac for an ARM one once they come out and I know the CAD software I use will run under emulation.

 

[boss.king]

I am pretty sure a MBP has much better components such as faster RAM, faster SSD, more high-end motherboard. Only the display is probably more expensive.

An iPad Pro is not faster than a MBP at all, maybe if the only thing you do it running Geekbench. In real world workflow, it gets slayed by having to do workarounds which is super easy on a MBP. An iPad Pro is just a big iPhone.

The point is that in an ARM Mac, those component differences would likely be nullified, and the real differentiator would be the processor (which, going by the chips in the iPad Air, could give Intel a run for their money).

 

[Madhatter32]

They need to price it lower to increase market share. The more devices they sell the more money they make on services and other peripheral devices and accessories. They are now competing with the entire x86 world and need to make the value proposition as compelling as possible.

 

[EntropyQ3]

If Apple is going to sell roughly the same products, at roughly the same prices, to roughly the same people - why would they even bother? Somewhat better margins on a product line that is only a small fraction of their revenue anyway?

It would only upset a working and profitable set-up, cause current users hassle, and give them a reason to reevaluate their investment in Apple products. And if Apple doesn't do something drastic about value, Windows users will have no reason to change their "Macs are overpriced toys for hipsters" tune.

I would hope that Apple leadership are somewhat more ambitious.
We'll see about that in a week.

 

[Jason2000]

Yeah we do.

SoC will most likely have more cores than iPad Air A14 and run at higher clocks.
Memory type is most likely LPDDR4X.
SSD will most likely just be the usual 256/512/1/2/4/8 options.
It'll most likely be WIFI 6 because that's what the iPhone and iPad have.

Edit: and if Apple is reusing the same design? Then yeah, we know exactly how many ports these machines may have, and exactly what ports those are.

And battery life? Obviously won't be that much more than the iPad Air with A14... and that one lasts about 10 hours.

What don't we know aside from price?

You keep saying most likely. This means we do not know for sure.

 

[beastforum]

I suspect that they will raise the price but I hope they don’t. If they do and also try and do the usual 8gb ram starting point with 16gb for an extra 200 then I think I may jump ship and get a surface book 3. I love Apple products and use them a lot but not going to lie when I say that I’m getting pretty fed up of paying such high prices when they are sitting on billions.
I had a chance to play with a surface book 3 recently and it’s such a nice machine. Keyboard is amazing. Screen is. Battery life is just out of this world.

 

[bill-p]

If Apple is going to sell roughly the same products, at roughly the same prices, to roughly the same people - why would they even bother?

More control over their products. Less external influence from Intel and others. Less "unknown". More linear product timeline planning, etc...

So all of the benefits are mostly internal to Apple if that scenario is true.

You keep saying most likely. This means we do not know for sure.

Well, we aren't 100% sure-fire certain if that's what you mean. But honestly, at this point, with the amount of rumors, and also parallels drawn from the DTK, plus what folks have been able to unearth from Big Sur, we have an abundance of information.

Knowing the upcoming announcement will involve a 13" MacBook Air and a 13" MacBook Pro is already plenty, wouldn't you say?

I think people are hoping to be wowed and surprised, but seriously, the last 2 Apple events have taught me to not expect anything out of the ordinary next Tuesday. I still root for Apple to give me great devices, but I'm not hoping they'll work miracles. Miracles may come next year or the year after. That was the case with the last PowerPC transition as well: Apple kept the same chassis and just slapped Intel processors into those machines for the most part.

Steve Jobs actually did this. I've read people say the new Macs won't be changed because Tim Cook but... seriously, Steve did it first. Years ago. And he got away with it.

If there are surprises at this point, no matter how minor, that means Tim Cook is already doing something better.

 

[Harvey Zoltan]

What does the dev mini have to do with base product specs on the real Apple Silicon products? The answer to my rhetorical question is: nothing. The DTK has no value for predicting anything. It's a one-off intended only to support devs who need something to use while porting and testing software, not a production design for a wider market.

(That single purpose is the reason the DTK has 16GB. It would be a struggle for devs to use a computer with only 8GB. In fact, 16 is on the small side for software dev work, but I'd guess this is a limitation of the A12Z chip Apple borrowed from the iPad Pro.)

Thanks for the explanation. I thought I had read in some forum that 16GB would be required for AS Macs in order to achieve the increase in performance that’s been promised.

 

[MisterMe]

If Apple is going to sell roughly the same products, at roughly the same prices, to roughly the same people - why would they even bother? Somewhat better margins on a product line that is only a small fraction of their revenue anyway?

It would only upset a working and profitable set-up, cause current users hassle, and give them a reason to reevaluate their investment in Apple products. And if Apple doesn't do something drastic about value, Windows users will have no reason to change their "Macs are overpriced toys for hipsters" tune.

I would hope that Apple leadership are somewhat more ambitious.
We'll see about that in a week.

This post reads like something out of the 1990s. Just for kicks and giggles, name a healthy manufacturer of Windows-based towers or laptops.

 

[JPIndustrie]

I would say the majority of the cost of Macintosh still comes from the massive undertaking in case / SOC motherboard design , engineering and manufacturing , rather than the silicon sourced from an outside fabber

that won't change

Sadly then the price won't

but I have no doubt Apple will provide more value with the AS Macs for the same price in a variety of other ways

 

[JPIndustrie]

More control over their products. Less external influence from Intel and others. Less "unknown". More linear product timeline planning, etc...

So all of the benefits are mostly internal to Apple if that scenario is true.



Well, we aren't 100% sure-fire certain if that's what you mean. But honestly, at this point, with the amount of rumors, and also parallels drawn from the DTK, plus what folks have been able to unearth from Big Sur, we have an abundance of information.

Knowing the upcoming announcement will involve a 13" MacBook Air and a 13" MacBook Pro is already plenty, wouldn't you say?

I think people are hoping to be wowed and surprised, but seriously, the last 2 Apple events have taught me to not expect anything out of the ordinary next Tuesday. I still root for Apple to give me great devices, but I'm not hoping they'll work miracles. Miracles may come next year or the year after. That was the case with the last PowerPC transition as well: Apple kept the same chassis and just slapped Intel processors into those machines for the most part.

Steve Jobs actually did this. I've read people say the new Macs won't be changed because Tim Cook but... seriously, Steve did it first. Years ago. And he got away with it.

If there are surprises at this point, no matter how minor, that means Tim Cook is already doing something better.

Exactly this -

Apple kept the last Al 'powerbook' body in order to prove/show the efficiency in Apple computer case design. Despite everyone's assumption that Apple was shot gun wedded to the power PC architecture they wanted to show how agile they can be

I fully expect a tweaked version of the 2016+ USB C chassis, showing how well their design can scale to different chipsets (even help get more from the A14 we all know and love with its pro laptop class heavy duty heat dissipation) ... designed to look similar as the previous generation but an obvious 'black sheep'