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PSA: you probably don’t need 32 or 64Gb RAM unless you know you need it.
- Thread starter aevan
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Could be. But also keep in mind we are not in the 1990s anymore. Websites are not static and can experience issues themselves. So while it could be Teams as the cause, keep in mind when comparing websites in the future. There is a website I visit that ranges from a hundred MB to a couple of GB based on what ads are showing and perhaps their JavaScript causing memory issues.
There is absolutely nothing special running ATM. Mostly browser tabs, messengers (including hungry discord), office and couple of VScode windows with small projects, Apple Mail.
Clearly, there is almost no memory pressure yet (but still enough of pressure to use compression. if I'd have 128, there would be zero compressed at this point).
And with 32GB, at this point, I'd have 15-20GB of swapped stuff most likely, more compressed memory and less cached files.
This would, inevitable, affect performance.
There is no avoiding swap. Even on 128GB of RAM on Windows I notice swap when I only have a few things running. Some programs are built to use swap.
It really depends how system see things.
I also had a week run with 90 MB on swap.But once you go for longer and open a bit more browser tabs, you inevitably end up with the swap, yep.
I have had Chrome and Edge open on Windows 10 with 128GB of RAM and I experience swap sometimes. Its just unavoidable. Just use your system and don't worry about RAM unless you start experiencing major issues.
Oh, I don't worry 
I deal with memory long enough to worry )))
It is just illustration of how much can bee used even current by something which is effectively "no load".
Of course fantastic speed of swapping and compression helps with memory use, but they cost. And memory use will only grow next years. My colleagues already have complains about out of memory on 16GB MPB 13 M1, while 100% of their use is browser.
And here is transition to yellow memory pressure. But one can see how much is getting compressed quickly comparing to previous. Without compression this, most likely, would be OOM kill
I deal with memory long enough to worry )))
It is just illustration of how much can bee used even current by something which is effectively "no load".
Of course fantastic speed of swapping and compression helps with memory use, but they cost. And memory use will only grow next years. My colleagues already have complains about out of memory on 16GB MPB 13 M1, while 100% of their use is browser.
And here is transition to yellow memory pressure. But one can see how much is getting compressed quickly comparing to previous. Without compression this, most likely, would be OOM kill
I have said this many times, but browser utilization is not a good metric these days. We are not in 1990s anymore. Websites can be up to 2GB of RAM usage these days. And the same website can be 100 MB or 2GB depending on what ads are on the site at the time. In general, Ad blockers and paying for ad-free experience (like I do on this site) dramatically reduces my browser RAM usage.Oh, I don't worry
I deal with memory long enough to worry )))
It is just illustration of how much can bee used even current by something which is effectively "no load".
Of course fantastic speed of swapping and compression helps with memory use, but they cost. And memory use will only grow next years. My colleagues already have complains about out of memory on 16GB MPB 13 M1, while 100% of their use is browser.
And here is transition to yellow memory pressure. But one can see how much is getting compressed quickly comparing to previous. Without compression this, most likely, would be OOM kill
View attachment 1919381
I push my 16GB M1 Mac mini MUCH MUCH harder with 1.5 hour 4k 60fps footage in Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, Illustrator and more open to do my work and I still get in green memory pressure. I have only gotten in yellow once. But I have never reached out of memory and I do much more than just browse.
My message is exactly that browser utilization is quite unpredictable thing, and it keep growing and will keep growing.
And regarding OOM, I had OOM like every few days on Mac Mini M1 16GB
Thing is, Final Cut, whatever else are predictable workflows, you can know for certain, how much you need and how much is enough.
Browsing is a black hole, and it is getting deeper
And heavily depends on what you are browsing exactly. And what you browse might change, or you favorite site might decide (and will decide eventually) to get more "modern" Yep I agree. Not just browsers, but the websites these days is essentially as efficient as desktop programs. Its up to the developer. Bad javascript? Be prepared for your CPU to get tanked. Lots of ads? Be prepared to have much larger RAM utilization than necessary when viewing a simple news article!My message is exactly that browser utilization is quite unpredictable thing, and it keep growing and will keep growing.
And regarding OOM, I had OOM like every few days on Mac Mini M1 16GB
Thing is, Final Cut, whatever else are predictable workflows, you can know for certain, how much you need and how much is enough.
Browsing is a black hole, and it is getting deeper
These days, saying "RAM is high and I only have a browser open" is just the same as saying "I can't use 16GB of RAM because I have 5 programs open". WHAT are the programs? Similarly, WHAT are the websites?
Bad JS - also high memory use. Problem is that nowadays nobody give a damn
It is called package driven development. To do 2+2, typical web-dev might pull 40-50 packages into the code Thanks to MS, we got generation of programmers grown with idea "don't give a damn about memory, by the time this code hit the shelves, memory will be twice cheaper". Plus all easiness of JS comes with the price.
And, essentially, for something which naturally should cost 30K, people use 300M (real-life case). And this considered fast, efficient and scalable ))))))))))
So, things like final cut, or matlab or whatever else, didn't grow in memory use THAT much over the years (of course, there is grows of memory use due to the grows of data, like 1080p-> 4K and some slight grows due to factors above), but browsing, essentially, grows in memory use day by day, without providing much of changes in experience. So, counting on "this amount is enough today, it will be enough tomorrow" is totally unsafe. You favorite news site in a year might require 10 times more memory. And will look exactly the same
I kinda sound old and grumpy, I guess, but I spent lifetime fitting unifiable into the memory
Counting bytes while dealing with terabytes of memory.
There is no such thing as 64GB RAM M1 Pro. Perhaps you mean M1 Max?View attachment 1919899
64GB MBP M1 Pro
After killing couple of apps:
View attachment 1919900
And about web-sites
View attachment 1919904
Hi everyone, newbie here, hope I'm not breaking any rules!
I am trying to understand whether I WILL actually need these 32 GBs of RAM or not.
I'm a graphic/product designer, at work I currently use a 2017 iMac with 32 GB Ram, and my daily tasks consist mainly of:
It needs to be able to handle the same type of files and workflow of the current work iMac, plus increasing amount of video editing.
Duration: ideally, I would like this laptop to last me over 5 years, and still be functional.
I'm not a "fan" buyer and I don't see expensive laptops as toys to collect; as long as I can still get my work done on this, I wouldn't want to trade it for a new one, no matter what new cool thing they come up with.
As a reference: my 2008 MacbookPro died in 2020, and up until the last few months when the screen started dying, I was still using it for lighter work tasks (InDesign, small web graphics like icons).
It was by far the most reliable and durable computer (not just laptop) I've ever owned, carried it around the world, lasted from my Uni days until most of my adult career, and ideally I would like something that comes close.
I'm leaning towards a 14 inch MacBook (I'm a small person and 16 is too heavy/big! I'll invest in a good screen for home instead), with M1 Pro, 10 Core CPU, 1 TB SSD; but I just can't figure out if 16 GB will be enough, or I might be safer with 32!
What do you suggest? My knowledge, as I'm sure you can tell, is limited.
Also I apologize for any mistakes - English is not my first language.
TIA to anyone!
I am trying to understand whether I WILL actually need these 32 GBs of RAM or not.
I'm a graphic/product designer, at work I currently use a 2017 iMac with 32 GB Ram, and my daily tasks consist mainly of:
- Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator, on files that can be very heavy (complex packaging, multi-page illustrated PDFs, high-res editing etc)
- 3D Modelling on Rhinoceros, rendering on Blender. I recently upgraded to Rhinoceros 7 and I noticed it performs quite poorly on my current iMac, which surprised me (Rhino 6 was smoother) but I have no clue of the reason why.
- Video editing, which is still fairly new to me, but I will be doing a lot more of it - next year about 50% of my projects will go from the current photo/presentation format, to video. Lots of 3D animation in my future too.
It needs to be able to handle the same type of files and workflow of the current work iMac, plus increasing amount of video editing.
Duration: ideally, I would like this laptop to last me over 5 years, and still be functional.
I'm not a "fan" buyer and I don't see expensive laptops as toys to collect; as long as I can still get my work done on this, I wouldn't want to trade it for a new one, no matter what new cool thing they come up with.
As a reference: my 2008 MacbookPro died in 2020, and up until the last few months when the screen started dying, I was still using it for lighter work tasks (InDesign, small web graphics like icons).
It was by far the most reliable and durable computer (not just laptop) I've ever owned, carried it around the world, lasted from my Uni days until most of my adult career, and ideally I would like something that comes close.
I'm leaning towards a 14 inch MacBook (I'm a small person and 16 is too heavy/big! I'll invest in a good screen for home instead), with M1 Pro, 10 Core CPU, 1 TB SSD; but I just can't figure out if 16 GB will be enough, or I might be safer with 32!
What do you suggest? My knowledge, as I'm sure you can tell, is limited.
Also I apologize for any mistakes - English is not my first language.
TIA to anyone!
Personally, I find that paying ~$3000 for a computer with only 16GB of ram in 2021 (soon to be 2022) is completely nuts. If you don't have "pro" needs then simply don't buy a "pro" machine.
If you buy a "pro" machine and you have professional work to do (Photo, Video, Programming, etc.) do yourself a favor and get 32GB ram.
If you really want to save money, go with the basic 8 cores CPU, 512gb SSD, and get 32GB ram. There are SD cards of 1TB now if you need space for files. I'm sure we will see tons of them that sit flush and work well over the upcoming year (there are even some already available).
No matter how fast your machine is, when it runs out of memory it's game over. I got the 16GB ram after seeing all those reviews and reading all that nonsense here and I did run out of RAM and no it's not prettier with an M1. It just does like every other computer, it becomes barely usable, UI is laggy (you click and things take a while to draw on the screen).
Also, the Swap is good up to around 8GB, it doesn't go much higher than that from what I have seen, after that it's just a mess of compressed memory and SSD that doesn't keep up.
I would take a slower CPU with 32GB ram over a faster CPU any time.
If you buy a "pro" machine and you have professional work to do (Photo, Video, Programming, etc.) do yourself a favor and get 32GB ram.
If you really want to save money, go with the basic 8 cores CPU, 512gb SSD, and get 32GB ram. There are SD cards of 1TB now if you need space for files. I'm sure we will see tons of them that sit flush and work well over the upcoming year (there are even some already available).
No matter how fast your machine is, when it runs out of memory it's game over. I got the 16GB ram after seeing all those reviews and reading all that nonsense here and I did run out of RAM and no it's not prettier with an M1. It just does like every other computer, it becomes barely usable, UI is laggy (you click and things take a while to draw on the screen).
Also, the Swap is good up to around 8GB, it doesn't go much higher than that from what I have seen, after that it's just a mess of compressed memory and SSD that doesn't keep up.
I would take a slower CPU with 32GB ram over a faster CPU any time.
Does that site have ads? Do you have an ad blocker?View attachment 1919899
64GB MBP M1 Max
After killing couple of apps:
View attachment 1919900
And about web-sites
View attachment 1919904
Unified Memory Architecture (UMA) reworks how memory allocation is done and increases its utility. macOS on Apple Silicon works more like iOS & iPadOS so needs less memory than Android or winOS $ equivalent. This led me to the 16GB model when my 2012 iMac 27" Core i7 has 32GB.
I was able to buy the 5 week old $2,499 2021 MBP 16" M1 Pro base model at $2,199 from Adorama. A $300 discount.
Expect BH Photo to price match it today for Cyber Monday.
Be aware that the lowest price the $2,399 2019 MBP 16" Core i7 base model is $1,899 so if you want that low of a price on the M1 Pro then you will need to wait at least 11-23 months from today.
Now I see specific uses cases that 64GB memory is not enough... I guess that's why you're here... your use case is <20% of all users?
I was able to buy the 5 week old $2,499 2021 MBP 16" M1 Pro base model at $2,199 from Adorama. A $300 discount.
Expect BH Photo to price match it today for Cyber Monday.
Be aware that the lowest price the $2,399 2019 MBP 16" Core i7 base model is $1,899 so if you want that low of a price on the M1 Pro then you will need to wait at least 11-23 months from today.
Now I see specific uses cases that 64GB memory is not enough... I guess that's why you're here... your use case is <20% of all users?
Mate you need the M1 Max. If you are making a living off your machine this is a no brainer.
Absolutely not so far as the need is concerned. The M1 Pro with 32 GB is going to rock just fine.
The M1 Max maybe becomes a no brainer, however, when spending the amounts we will on these base configs + 32 GB. Then it becomes less painful to just get the M1 Max and benefit from the GPU cores and added bandwidth.
Yep, this video helps if you don't want to dig deep in the architecture and how it handles memory and GPU memory too.
Thank you so much for the reply! Wow the Max even? I thought that might be overkill and more than I need, cause while I will be doing a lot more video editing in the future, it won't be super high-res - the output must be portable and light enough to run smoothly on coworkers' ****** Windows laptops, or insert in Powerpoints.
If the combo M1 Max + 32 GB would guarantee that my MBP will last me years, then I'd be ready to bite the bullet for the crazy price... I am just so unsure!
M1 Max + 32 GB will keep you happy and satisfied for anything you throw at it. 3D anatomy, video editing, anything. However, if you are using this machine professionally for 3D, consider getting 64 GB as well (going by your usage of 50+ tabs plus other apps). That will set you back by a lot, but the machine will give you total satisfaction for your purpose.
At any rate, M1 Max + 32 GB should be your go-to for the use case you have.
Yep I agree with your statement. I got the M1 Max for the extra video encoders/decoders so it came with 32GB. I am fine with 16GB of RAM but there is no config M1 Max with 16GB. I do 4k60 video editing and even my M1 iMac with 8GB can handle it just fine.